My biggest issue is will it add or replace content?
What do you mean?
On DDB, it will be added. It will be considered new content, not errata.
In physical books, I imagine that VGtM and MToF will go out of print, since they'll be pretty much obsolete at that point. If yiu already have those books, yhen it will do whatever you want it to. If you want to use MotM stats, do so. If you want to use the originals, feel free. If you want to mix 'n' match, have at it.
If you mean will stuff be replaced or merely added to in MotM compared to the originals, then the answer is it replaces stuff. Things are moved around, other things are expanded, others reduced and some removed.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
My biggest issue is will it add or replace content?
What do you mean?
On DDB, it will be added. It will be considered new content, not errata.
In physical books, I imagine that VGtM and MToF will go out of print, since they'll be pretty much obsolete at that point. If yiu already have those books, yhen it will do whatever you want it to. If you want to use MotM stats, do so. If you want to use the originals, feel free. If you want to mix 'n' match, have at it.
If you mean will stuff be replaced or merely added to in MotM compared to the originals, then the answer is it replaces stuff. Things are moved around, other things are expanded, others reduced and some removed.
THing is VGtM and MToF are not obsolete, only the monsters are ported over, the pages and pages of background and other information is not, this information still needs to be available and WOTC currently has not indicated it intends to bundle it in some other form.
My biggest issue is will it add or replace content?
What do you mean?
On DDB, it will be added. It will be considered new content, not errata.
In physical books, I imagine that VGtM and MToF will go out of print, since they'll be pretty much obsolete at that point. If yiu already have those books, yhen it will do whatever you want it to. If you want to use MotM stats, do so. If you want to use the originals, feel free. If you want to mix 'n' match, have at it.
If you mean will stuff be replaced or merely added to in MotM compared to the originals, then the answer is it replaces stuff. Things are moved around, other things are expanded, others reduced and some removed.
THing is VGtM and MToF are not obsolete, only the monsters are ported over, the pages and pages of background and other information is not, this information still needs to be available and WOTC currently has not indicated it intends to bundle it in some other form.
What lore has not been brought over?
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Just about everything that isn't a stat block or PC race has not been brought over. There are pages of lore about beholders, giants, gnolls, goblinoids, hags, kobolds, mind flayers, orcs, and yuan-ti from Volo's. In Mordenkainen's you have all the chapters about the blood war, elves, dwarves, gith, halflings, and gnomes that have been left out. MMM is just a collection of races from those books and other sources and every monster from the two books except the orcs, with only enough lore about them to fit on one page apiece.
My biggest issue is will it add or replace content?
What do you mean?
On DDB, it will be added. It will be considered new content, not errata.
In physical books, I imagine that VGtM and MToF will go out of print, since they'll be pretty much obsolete at that point. If yiu already have those books, yhen it will do whatever you want it to. If you want to use MotM stats, do so. If you want to use the originals, feel free. If you want to mix 'n' match, have at it.
If you mean will stuff be replaced or merely added to in MotM compared to the originals, then the answer is it replaces stuff. Things are moved around, other things are expanded, others reduced and some removed.
THing is VGtM and MToF are not obsolete, only the monsters are ported over, the pages and pages of background and other information is not, this information still needs to be available and WOTC currently has not indicated it intends to bundle it in some other form.
What lore has not been brought over?
As stated by Buzzard, everything, none of the lore is ported over, it is simply a book of monsters with no context as to what or where those monsters come from, there relation to the world or each other, the politics behind them or the motivations etc. Now some may say that this is ok because all that information is available online and the whole point of the book is to provide a set of monsters that can be used in any setting, but I think the lore that is provided, while not perfect, is a brilliant intro to those brand new to DnD as a starting off point. Now it is possible that all this material will be ported into another book at some point in the future, but, for now at least, new DM's are faced with a choice, buy all 3 books for updated stats and lore or pick if they want the new stats or the lore.
So you're saying that the lore in MotM is "new", then?
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
So you're saying that the lore in MotM is "new", then?
I am saying there is no lore, nothing, nada, they didn't have the space to print it all so they just left all of it out, think the Monster Manual, there is very little lore that, from what I have been told there is even less then in there. You get a few random tables to determine Beholder, Mind Flayer etc goals and personality but the background and deep description about these key racers is all cut out to make space for statblocks.
Only the bestiary sections (sans orcs) have been reprinted and updated in the new book. Several monsters that previously didn't have art now do. They did keep a couple of things, like the mind flayer and yuan-ti lair maps, but that's about it. Some of the monster lore has been updated. There is also one new creature, a teleporting fey dolphin, so that's nice. Almost all the PC races got substantial changes, most of which I like but the little I don't isn't really that big of deal for me. The Tiefling variants were left out, I assume because they're saving them for the 2024 core book revamp.
So you're saying that the lore in MotM is "new", then?
I am saying there is no lore, nothing, nada, they didn't have the space to print it all so they just left all of it out, think the Monster Manual, there is very little lore that, from what I have been told there is even less then in there. You get a few random tables to determine Beholder, Mind Flayer etc goals and personality but the background and deep description about these key racers is all cut out to make space for statblocks.
That's not true. I've had the book since it came out, and there is definitely lore. I was quite pleased with it. I'm not sure where you're got the idea from that it's all statblocks. I couldn't tell you what is shared with VGtM or MToF because I don't own those, but there is quite a bit of lore - coming from someone who has in the past criticised books for not having enough.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I believe Scarloc was referring to the first section of VGtM and the first 5 chapters of MToF being absent from the new book. Each monster entry has at least a short blurb about them but MMM does not go in depth like the previous books do.
It kind of makes sense to take the lore out. This being a book with creatures from across the "multiverse." Any lore is going to be world specific, and it seems they are trying to move away from the FR, or any other campaign setting, being a default. They can't just have one lore and call it universally applicable. Seems of a piece with removing a standard alignment.
I'm not trying to tell people who want it that they are wrong. And I do think, if they're going to take it out, it would be useful for them to then make supplements describing behaviors in the various published worlds. It just makes logical sense for WotC to take it out.
The problem is to put thrnsame depth back in...you're essentially going to have to do a Monster Book for each setting...which sort of defeats the point of a settings agnostic approach. I buy the settings agnostic monster book, but to really apply it in my campaign I have to buy the FR version, which has all.the info that the settings agnostic book has...why did I buy the settings agnostic book again?
I don't mind the idea of having a version of the monster book for each setting. So same ststblocks etc, but there's a Faerun version, an Eberron version, etc. Same statblocks so I'm not forced to buy every version, but each one has lore specific to its setting, so I can get the one that is relevant to then setting I use most, but I can still carry use them if I dip into another setting.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
WotC's wisdom seems to be that by removing all the FR specific lore, and the default alignment, DMs wouldn't feel like they HAD to make their versions of those monsters in their worlds the same. WotC wants DMs to make up their own lore.
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
WotC's wisdom seems to be that by removing all the FR specific lore, and the default alignment, DMs wouldn't feel like they HAD to make their versions of those monsters in their worlds the same. WotC wants DMs to make up their own lore.
I get this but, for many many many new DM's this information helps them have ideas, it helps them place these races in the world without having to come up with everything themselves. WOTC is now makin money selling the same content twice (all the monster stats) it feels like they should at least make the text available to buy as a pdf on it's own.
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What do you mean?
On DDB, it will be added. It will be considered new content, not errata.
In physical books, I imagine that VGtM and MToF will go out of print, since they'll be pretty much obsolete at that point. If yiu already have those books, yhen it will do whatever you want it to. If you want to use MotM stats, do so. If you want to use the originals, feel free. If you want to mix 'n' match, have at it.
If you mean will stuff be replaced or merely added to in MotM compared to the originals, then the answer is it replaces stuff. Things are moved around, other things are expanded, others reduced and some removed.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
THing is VGtM and MToF are not obsolete, only the monsters are ported over, the pages and pages of background and other information is not, this information still needs to be available and WOTC currently has not indicated it intends to bundle it in some other form.
What lore has not been brought over?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Just about everything that isn't a stat block or PC race has not been brought over. There are pages of lore about beholders, giants, gnolls, goblinoids, hags, kobolds, mind flayers, orcs, and yuan-ti from Volo's. In Mordenkainen's you have all the chapters about the blood war, elves, dwarves, gith, halflings, and gnomes that have been left out. MMM is just a collection of races from those books and other sources and every monster from the two books except the orcs, with only enough lore about them to fit on one page apiece.
As stated by Buzzard, everything, none of the lore is ported over, it is simply a book of monsters with no context as to what or where those monsters come from, there relation to the world or each other, the politics behind them or the motivations etc. Now some may say that this is ok because all that information is available online and the whole point of the book is to provide a set of monsters that can be used in any setting, but I think the lore that is provided, while not perfect, is a brilliant intro to those brand new to DnD as a starting off point.
Now it is possible that all this material will be ported into another book at some point in the future, but, for now at least, new DM's are faced with a choice, buy all 3 books for updated stats and lore or pick if they want the new stats or the lore.
So you're saying that the lore in MotM is "new", then?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I am saying there is no lore, nothing, nada, they didn't have the space to print it all so they just left all of it out, think the Monster Manual, there is very little lore that, from what I have been told there is even less then in there. You get a few random tables to determine Beholder, Mind Flayer etc goals and personality but the background and deep description about these key racers is all cut out to make space for statblocks.
Only the bestiary sections (sans orcs) have been reprinted and updated in the new book. Several monsters that previously didn't have art now do. They did keep a couple of things, like the mind flayer and yuan-ti lair maps, but that's about it. Some of the monster lore has been updated. There is also one new creature, a teleporting fey dolphin, so that's nice. Almost all the PC races got substantial changes, most of which I like but the little I don't isn't really that big of deal for me. The Tiefling variants were left out, I assume because they're saving them for the 2024 core book revamp.
That's not true. I've had the book since it came out, and there is definitely lore. I was quite pleased with it. I'm not sure where you're got the idea from that it's all statblocks. I couldn't tell you what is shared with VGtM or MToF because I don't own those, but there is quite a bit of lore - coming from someone who has in the past criticised books for not having enough.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I believe Scarloc was referring to the first section of VGtM and the first 5 chapters of MToF being absent from the new book. Each monster entry has at least a short blurb about them but MMM does not go in depth like the previous books do.
It kind of makes sense to take the lore out. This being a book with creatures from across the "multiverse." Any lore is going to be world specific, and it seems they are trying to move away from the FR, or any other campaign setting, being a default. They can't just have one lore and call it universally applicable. Seems of a piece with removing a standard alignment.
I'm not trying to tell people who want it that they are wrong. And I do think, if they're going to take it out, it would be useful for them to then make supplements describing behaviors in the various published worlds. It just makes logical sense for WotC to take it out.
The problem is to put thrnsame depth back in...you're essentially going to have to do a Monster Book for each setting...which sort of defeats the point of a settings agnostic approach. I buy the settings agnostic monster book, but to really apply it in my campaign I have to buy the FR version, which has all.the info that the settings agnostic book has...why did I buy the settings agnostic book again?
I don't mind the idea of having a version of the monster book for each setting. So same ststblocks etc, but there's a Faerun version, an Eberron version, etc. Same statblocks so I'm not forced to buy every version, but each one has lore specific to its setting, so I can get the one that is relevant to then setting I use most, but I can still carry use them if I dip into another setting.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
WotC's wisdom seems to be that by removing all the FR specific lore, and the default alignment, DMs wouldn't feel like they HAD to make their versions of those monsters in their worlds the same. WotC wants DMs to make up their own lore.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I get this but, for many many many new DM's this information helps them have ideas, it helps them place these races in the world without having to come up with everything themselves. WOTC is now makin money selling the same content twice (all the monster stats) it feels like they should at least make the text available to buy as a pdf on it's own.