For those who don't know (I didn't until I bought the on sale bundle), these elves (both High and Wood varieties, actually) basically replace elven weapon proficiency for +1 skill or tool proficiency that has expertise.
I have been thinking how someone was really on the ball for this.
I know many DMs didn't like the idea of a player replacing all their weapons with tool proficiencies, making them a tool master, and instead restricted them to dropping *all* the weapons for *one* tool proficiency.
This type of elf realizes that elf weapon training is basically the non-stat half of the Weapon Master feat, and it basically replaces it with the non-stat half of the Skill Expert feat. Sure, you are limited in giving expertise only to the skill or tool you select, unlike SE, but you get the option of choosing a tool instead of a skill.
Granted, it will be the rare player that chooses a tool, but it is a great substitute for the DMs who thought up to 4 tools were too strong, and the players who thought one tool was too weak.
For those of you that have looked at it, do you think it is too OP? If so, why?
I don't think it's OP and I think it's a good choice. Reality is, I can't think of a game where playing an Elf was important in 5e specifically because they had weapons their class didn't have besides maybe a Rogue who would want a Longbow.
Being able to play a character who has a niche that wouldn't normally be achieved I think is a good thing. A Fighter who is better than the Cleric at perception, sounds fun AND it's on brand. A holy paladin who has prof and expertise in poisons because of their family? Sounds fun!
It's honestly something I've been considering as a house rule that every character at campaign start gets one expertise in one skill/tool of their choice.
The expertise part seems overdone to me, but the proficiency to begin with is fine. Mechanically, both add the same bonus (proficiency bonus) to a different thing. Doubling that bonus is unbalancing things, particularly since expertise is a distinctive class/subclass feature that does make a significant difference and takes the place of other useful abilities that would be there in place of it. A proficiency is already an advantage that scales up with level and then you're adding class features to a race. That's not what the system is designed for and it's unbalanced. If it was balanced then the original racial weapon proficiencies would double your proficiency bonus to attacks and that's obviously unbalanced. It's not something a racial ability should do.
It's a feature. With expertise now being associated with multiple classes in some form, it's not even inherently unique to a specific class either. While a few skills are obviously more game important than others, thieves tools/arcana/perception/investigation, by and large the others are really up to the DM to make important.
That being said, it is absolutely what the system is designed for. It's why there are tools in place to determine DCs and checks. Most races give some inherent benefit that can't be measured solely by a class benefit, or potentially mimics certain benefits, which honestly makes sense. Now that trade off is where do I min max, with this race or variant human assuming that min maxers are gonna min max. It definitely isn't unbalanced, it's just another choice in a sea of choices.
The expertise part seems overdone to me, but the proficiency to begin with is fine. Mechanically, both add the same bonus (proficiency bonus) to a different thing. Doubling that bonus is unbalancing things, particularly since expertise is a distinctive class/subclass feature that does make a significant difference and takes the place of other useful abilities that would be there in place of it. A proficiency is already an advantage that scales up with level and then you're adding class features to a race. That's not what the system is designed for and it's unbalanced. If it was balanced then the original racial weapon proficiencies would double your proficiency bonus to attacks and that's obviously unbalanced. It's not something a racial ability should do.
To be fair, Variant Human and Custom Lineage are both Race Options that can take Skill Expert as a feat at character creation. VH has access to Prodigy as well, technically. *Races* already have access to Expertise, outside of class.
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For those who don't know (I didn't until I bought the on sale bundle), these elves (both High and Wood varieties, actually) basically replace elven weapon proficiency for +1 skill or tool proficiency that has expertise.
I have been thinking how someone was really on the ball for this.
I know many DMs didn't like the idea of a player replacing all their weapons with tool proficiencies, making them a tool master, and instead restricted them to dropping *all* the weapons for *one* tool proficiency.
This type of elf realizes that elf weapon training is basically the non-stat half of the Weapon Master feat, and it basically replaces it with the non-stat half of the Skill Expert feat. Sure, you are limited in giving expertise only to the skill or tool you select, unlike SE, but you get the option of choosing a tool instead of a skill.
Granted, it will be the rare player that chooses a tool, but it is a great substitute for the DMs who thought up to 4 tools were too strong, and the players who thought one tool was too weak.
For those of you that have looked at it, do you think it is too OP? If so, why?
[Edited for spelling/autocorrect errors]
I don't think it's OP and I think it's a good choice. Reality is, I can't think of a game where playing an Elf was important in 5e specifically because they had weapons their class didn't have besides maybe a Rogue who would want a Longbow.
Being able to play a character who has a niche that wouldn't normally be achieved I think is a good thing. A Fighter who is better than the Cleric at perception, sounds fun AND it's on brand. A holy paladin who has prof and expertise in poisons because of their family? Sounds fun!
It's honestly something I've been considering as a house rule that every character at campaign start gets one expertise in one skill/tool of their choice.
The expertise part seems overdone to me, but the proficiency to begin with is fine. Mechanically, both add the same bonus (proficiency bonus) to a different thing. Doubling that bonus is unbalancing things, particularly since expertise is a distinctive class/subclass feature that does make a significant difference and takes the place of other useful abilities that would be there in place of it. A proficiency is already an advantage that scales up with level and then you're adding class features to a race. That's not what the system is designed for and it's unbalanced. If it was balanced then the original racial weapon proficiencies would double your proficiency bonus to attacks and that's obviously unbalanced. It's not something a racial ability should do.
It's a feature. With expertise now being associated with multiple classes in some form, it's not even inherently unique to a specific class either. While a few skills are obviously more game important than others, thieves tools/arcana/perception/investigation, by and large the others are really up to the DM to make important.
That being said, it is absolutely what the system is designed for. It's why there are tools in place to determine DCs and checks. Most races give some inherent benefit that can't be measured solely by a class benefit, or potentially mimics certain benefits, which honestly makes sense. Now that trade off is where do I min max, with this race or variant human assuming that min maxers are gonna min max. It definitely isn't unbalanced, it's just another choice in a sea of choices.
To be fair, Variant Human and Custom Lineage are both Race Options that can take Skill Expert as a feat at character creation. VH has access to Prodigy as well, technically. *Races* already have access to Expertise, outside of class.