This is both a poll and an opportunity for constructive feedback. My homebrew world does not employ typical D&D cosmology or lore. For example, demons are mortal creatures transformed by unbearable torture or powerful curses, necromancy is acceptable but charm spells are evil, and the core races (human, elf, dwarf, gnome, etc.) are not playable because most do not exist and the elves have an evil, xenophobic, caste-system culture.
Option A - A set of 12 gods based on the Hindu pantheon. No gods are evil. The gods have principles/ideals that followers are to live by but the only in-game mechanic for choosing a god is their Domain. They are generally inaccessible because they put most of their attention and power into maintaining the World Shield that protects the planet from powerful creatures and civilizations that would otherwise conquer or destroy the world. The gods send Devas (not the Monster Manual kind) to encourage, inform, and reward mortals. Devas are most often accessed using magic spells but can also be used by the DM to proactively introduce plot hooks, give players hints when they are stuck, and reward them with magic items, boons, feats, etc.
Option B - Spirits are real but usually unseen. Some maintain the natural world. Others watch over family or seek out worthy souls. Different types of spirits have different principles/ideals that followers are to live by. More importantly, spirit worship has in-game benefits for those who actively worship them and practice their ideals. Examples of different spirit types are ancestor (family) spirits, spirits of legendary heroes, the great spirit who gives life to all things, and various aspects of nature such as spirits of beasts, insects, plants, dreams, and order (9 total nature spirits). Example: Chaos spirits value war, luck, and weather - once per day, as a reaction, you may pray to the chaos spirits for luck, and make the DM re-roll a die roll they made. Spirits can grant boons and feats but would have to direct the party to hidden magic items (possibly an adventure unto itself) because they are incorporeal.
Option A is less complicated and more familiar to players while still feeling different enough to honor the setting. Option B adds to the uniqueness of the setting and potential character roleplay, but complicates things with in-game benefits and more options to choose from.
1. What's your preferred option?
2. Feel free to leave constructive criticism for either option.
I’d go with A. Mostly because it’s easier. Option B seems like a lot of work in adjusting the base game to your cosmology. Though I could be misunderstanding it. Are you an experienced DM? It seems like B might end up giving PCs a power boost in terms of feats, etc. The more experienced you are, the better you’ll be able to handle that without it becoming unbalanced because you accidentally made the PCs too OP.
Xalthu, thanks for your post. I have been playing and DMing D&D for 35+ years in every edition. The benefits offered by worshipping a spirit in B are once a day benefits roughly equivalent to uncommon magic item effects, so not too powerful. Boons and feats will be rewards in lieu of chests of gold or magic items when it seems more appropriate to the situation. While many would say that RP is its own reward, I like to give rewards other than just Inspiration for consistent, colorful, entertaining RP of personality, character race, and religion that make the game world come alive.
I would say a mixture of both because I like the idea of spirits that can grant boons, however it there were still gods then paladins and clerics would have something more substantial to worship.
I'm mostly going with option A for that reason, and that it is simpler and Dnd is already mostly based around it.
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Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
Xalthu, thanks for your post. I have been playing and DMing D&D for 35+ years in every edition. The benefits offered by worshipping a spirit in B are once a day benefits roughly equivalent to uncommon magic item effects, so not too powerful. Boons and feats will be rewards in lieu of chests of gold or magic items when it seems more appropriate to the situation. While many would say that RP is its own reward, I like to give rewards other than just Inspiration for consistent, colorful, entertaining RP of personality, character race, and religion that make the game world come alive.
I realize after the first post that I may have come across as more combative than I'd meant to and hope I didn't insult you. It's just, there are a lot of new DMs who give their players too many goodies, and then wonder why the combats are all completely unbalanced compared to CR, and they can't challenge the PCs. Seems you are not one of those.
Anyway, while I think A would be easier to DM, since it's basically just changing the names of gods. I think B might be more interesting to play in, but then, like you, I've been playing a long time and enjoy the kinds of tactical choices it would involve. So, the real question is would your players appreciate that layer of complexity or not?
Personally, I don't see why the options are mutually exclusive. I think adding both would be fun, and not too difficult for players to get a grasp on. I'm in a campaign right now that has a bit of both and, although it took a session or so to understand how the spirits function in tandem with the gods, my whole party just kind of took it in stride. Some players are brand new and don't know any different, and I've been playing for many years and didn't have too much trouble adjusting. For what it's worth, I really like the idea of active spirits in a campaign. It's an underrepresented creative choice.
As a side note: you're probably better off posting this in the Story & Lore or the Dungeon Masters Only forum and including a functioning poll (there's a button for it at the bottom of the thread creator page). The posters there are much more accustomed to thinking along these lines and providing feedback.
I don't really have a vote so much as a distinction. Option A is more in line with how "Dungeons and Dragons" players think gods and pantheons work, including extraplanar emissaries like your Devas. Option B I'd only try out with players who either don't really have a strong grasp of D&D or have been playing enough with you and have an appetite (or tolerance) for you introducing de facto new systems into your game. Both options sound interesting to me, I'd say I'm more curious personally about Option B ... but thinking about every group I've played with in the over three decade's time ... I visualize a few of us eager to try this out and a bunch of players groaning over a "learning curve" for the DM's "new s----."
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
MidnightPlat, thanks for the input. I do not have a group. I will be advertising the game on here or Roll20, and all the campaign info will be available for them to review before applying. Since the game world is homebrew, atypical of generic D&D settings, and since the House Rules are fairly extensive, I'd say that no one is going to join my game anyway unless they have a desire to explore some "new s---", as you say. The unofficial motto of my game is, "Tired of Faerun, Eberron, and Nentir Vale? Trying something different. Some reading required." From that standpoint, if people here seem to like the idea of spirits instead of gods, let's go balls-to-wall different.
Cool. I think as long as you're up front in your Looking for Players ad that you're a long time DM/GM and will be using the game/campaign to trot out homebrew system(s) different from typical ... I dunno what you'd call it, let's say "D&D pantheons" you're "player market" is out there. I just think games like are probably best for players who've been around the block a bit in the stock model before trying out the hot rod.
Greenstone_Walker, your suggestion is an interesting one. I'll try coming up with a pentagram of gods and see if I'm happy with it. Additionally, I could throw in my favorite spirits (not the whole catalogue) to have both options available. I know there players who would ignore, or turn against, the "almighty" gods but be more willing to honor weaker, yet more intimate, beings that offer assistance more reliably.
Back in the 3.x days, Monte Cook had released a book with alternate classes and races, basically an alternate PHB. (I want to say it was "Arcana Unearthed." See what he did there?) One of the races had this thing where they believed in lots of little gods (kind of like the spirits you are considering), but, if I'm remembering right, those gods would only be discovered as a person went out in the world and tried doing things. So, if they were about to, say, dance barefoot in the rain on a Tuesday, they'd pray to the god of dancing barefoot in the rain on a Tuesday. Then, if they succeeded, they'd know that god was real, and share that knowledge with other members of their race that they encountered. I don't know if that's helpful, but I always thought it was a really flavorful addition to a belief system and might work with your spirits idea.
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This is both a poll and an opportunity for constructive feedback. My homebrew world does not employ typical D&D cosmology or lore. For example, demons are mortal creatures transformed by unbearable torture or powerful curses, necromancy is acceptable but charm spells are evil, and the core races (human, elf, dwarf, gnome, etc.) are not playable because most do not exist and the elves have an evil, xenophobic, caste-system culture.
Option A - A set of 12 gods based on the Hindu pantheon. No gods are evil. The gods have principles/ideals that followers are to live by but the only in-game mechanic for choosing a god is their Domain. They are generally inaccessible because they put most of their attention and power into maintaining the World Shield that protects the planet from powerful creatures and civilizations that would otherwise conquer or destroy the world. The gods send Devas (not the Monster Manual kind) to encourage, inform, and reward mortals. Devas are most often accessed using magic spells but can also be used by the DM to proactively introduce plot hooks, give players hints when they are stuck, and reward them with magic items, boons, feats, etc.
Option B - Spirits are real but usually unseen. Some maintain the natural world. Others watch over family or seek out worthy souls. Different types of spirits have different principles/ideals that followers are to live by. More importantly, spirit worship has in-game benefits for those who actively worship them and practice their ideals. Examples of different spirit types are ancestor (family) spirits, spirits of legendary heroes, the great spirit who gives life to all things, and various aspects of nature such as spirits of beasts, insects, plants, dreams, and order (9 total nature spirits). Example: Chaos spirits value war, luck, and weather - once per day, as a reaction, you may pray to the chaos spirits for luck, and make the DM re-roll a die roll they made. Spirits can grant boons and feats but would have to direct the party to hidden magic items (possibly an adventure unto itself) because they are incorporeal.
Option A is less complicated and more familiar to players while still feeling different enough to honor the setting. Option B adds to the uniqueness of the setting and potential character roleplay, but complicates things with in-game benefits and more options to choose from.
1. What's your preferred option?
2. Feel free to leave constructive criticism for either option.
Thank you for your time and responses.
I’d go with A. Mostly because it’s easier. Option B seems like a lot of work in adjusting the base game to your cosmology. Though I could be misunderstanding it.
Are you an experienced DM? It seems like B might end up giving PCs a power boost in terms of feats, etc. The more experienced you are, the better you’ll be able to handle that without it becoming unbalanced because you accidentally made the PCs too OP.
Xalthu, thanks for your post. I have been playing and DMing D&D for 35+ years in every edition. The benefits offered by worshipping a spirit in B are once a day benefits roughly equivalent to uncommon magic item effects, so not too powerful. Boons and feats will be rewards in lieu of chests of gold or magic items when it seems more appropriate to the situation. While many would say that RP is its own reward, I like to give rewards other than just Inspiration for consistent, colorful, entertaining RP of personality, character race, and religion that make the game world come alive.
I would say a mixture of both because I like the idea of spirits that can grant boons, however it there were still gods then paladins and clerics would have something more substantial to worship.
I'm mostly going with option A for that reason, and that it is simpler and Dnd is already mostly based around it.
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
I realize after the first post that I may have come across as more combative than I'd meant to and hope I didn't insult you. It's just, there are a lot of new DMs who give their players too many goodies, and then wonder why the combats are all completely unbalanced compared to CR, and they can't challenge the PCs. Seems you are not one of those.
Anyway, while I think A would be easier to DM, since it's basically just changing the names of gods. I think B might be more interesting to play in, but then, like you, I've been playing a long time and enjoy the kinds of tactical choices it would involve. So, the real question is would your players appreciate that layer of complexity or not?
I was hoping for a few more votes or comments.
Personally, I don't see why the options are mutually exclusive. I think adding both would be fun, and not too difficult for players to get a grasp on. I'm in a campaign right now that has a bit of both and, although it took a session or so to understand how the spirits function in tandem with the gods, my whole party just kind of took it in stride. Some players are brand new and don't know any different, and I've been playing for many years and didn't have too much trouble adjusting. For what it's worth, I really like the idea of active spirits in a campaign. It's an underrepresented creative choice.
As a side note: you're probably better off posting this in the Story & Lore or the Dungeon Masters Only forum and including a functioning poll (there's a button for it at the bottom of the thread creator page). The posters there are much more accustomed to thinking along these lines and providing feedback.
I'm going to
steallink to some advice by AngryGM on conflict.Decide on five core conflicts for your game world. Things like "Tradition vs Innovation."
Write the conflicts in a five pointed star, with the lines of the star the conflict and the points of the star each holding two points of view.
Create five gods, each manifesting one of the points of the star.
I don't really have a vote so much as a distinction. Option A is more in line with how "Dungeons and Dragons" players think gods and pantheons work, including extraplanar emissaries like your Devas. Option B I'd only try out with players who either don't really have a strong grasp of D&D or have been playing enough with you and have an appetite (or tolerance) for you introducing de facto new systems into your game. Both options sound interesting to me, I'd say I'm more curious personally about Option B ... but thinking about every group I've played with in the over three decade's time ... I visualize a few of us eager to try this out and a bunch of players groaning over a "learning curve" for the DM's "new s----."
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
MidnightPlat, thanks for the input. I do not have a group. I will be advertising the game on here or Roll20, and all the campaign info will be available for them to review before applying. Since the game world is homebrew, atypical of generic D&D settings, and since the House Rules are fairly extensive, I'd say that no one is going to join my game anyway unless they have a desire to explore some "new s---", as you say. The unofficial motto of my game is, "Tired of Faerun, Eberron, and Nentir Vale? Trying something different. Some reading required." From that standpoint, if people here seem to like the idea of spirits instead of gods, let's go balls-to-wall different.
Cool. I think as long as you're up front in your Looking for Players ad that you're a long time DM/GM and will be using the game/campaign to trot out homebrew system(s) different from typical ... I dunno what you'd call it, let's say "D&D pantheons" you're "player market" is out there. I just think games like are probably best for players who've been around the block a bit in the stock model before trying out the hot rod.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I only ever add Gods of my player's backstory has them in there or they make sense in the story line. Keep it simple for me.
Greenstone_Walker, your suggestion is an interesting one. I'll try coming up with a pentagram of gods and see if I'm happy with it. Additionally, I could throw in my favorite spirits (not the whole catalogue) to have both options available. I know there players who would ignore, or turn against, the "almighty" gods but be more willing to honor weaker, yet more intimate, beings that offer assistance more reliably.
Back in the 3.x days, Monte Cook had released a book with alternate classes and races, basically an alternate PHB. (I want to say it was "Arcana Unearthed." See what he did there?) One of the races had this thing where they believed in lots of little gods (kind of like the spirits you are considering), but, if I'm remembering right, those gods would only be discovered as a person went out in the world and tried doing things. So, if they were about to, say, dance barefoot in the rain on a Tuesday, they'd pray to the god of dancing barefoot in the rain on a Tuesday. Then, if they succeeded, they'd know that god was real, and share that knowledge with other members of their race that they encountered. I don't know if that's helpful, but I always thought it was a really flavorful addition to a belief system and might work with your spirits idea.