I believe the answer is very much so, though both can produce similar effects, their cause, reactions and how they work can be different: if you apply the logic that “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic--Arthur C Clarke,” then both can be seen as different forms of technology, powered and accessed by different things and vulnerable to different forms of anti-magic (or anti-technology I guess).
5e has put many things into the medium of "spells" that once upon a time were not and were intrinsic supernatural abilities or 'spell-like abilities'. They've also called things "spells" that either didn't used to be or don't necessarily have to be but are otherwise mechanically identical. For example, cleric "spells" don't actually have to be thought of as "spells" rather than as signs/wonders/miracles, etc. if one prefers the term "spell" to specifically reference a medium used only by mages or even just wizards. Warlocks used to have invocations instead of spells rather than in addition to them and certain paladin and ranger abilites were not spells either, and now they are.
I think perhaps you getting yourself a bit too hung up on the nomenclature and the developers decision to call something a "spell". You don't need to redesign the artificer per se to make yourself a technomancer or what have you. Just expand the concept of infusions and rename all of the artificer spells as 'infusions' instead. They infuse magic into technology or if you prefer, magic infuses itself into their technology -they know how to allow the magical properties of a substance into the machine crafted with that substance.
In 3e magic item creation was part of the feats system. Wizards would take an item createion feat such as brew potion, scribe scroll, craft wand etc.
It's kind of a headache: if artificer or technomancer or whatever you are referring to uses magic to infuse their technology, and technology can become indistinguishable from magic when it's sufficiently advanced enough, then this would be infusing primitive technology with advanced technology.
Class A waves their hand in the air, chants a few words, and casts a fireball.
Class B adjusts the nozzle on a device, pulls a trigger, and creates a sphere of fire with a 20 foot radius that does 8d6 damage with Dexterity saving throw.
Is there a meaningful enough difference between those two effects to warrant two different rules systems for each?
I believe the answer is very much so, though both can produce similar effects, their cause, reactions and how they work can be different: if you apply the logic that “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic--Arthur C Clarke,” then both can be seen as different forms of technology, powered and accessed by different things and vulnerable to different forms of anti-magic (or anti-technology I guess).
I think the point is more like, sooner or later this power will get used in game and someone will make a saving throw, and someone else will make a damage roll, and the rest is more or less flavor. So just use the game mechanics from fireball and save yourself done work.
You can take the artificer's "spellcasting, but reflavoured" route.
Or create the effects manually as class features.
Your answer is yes either way.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Class A waves their hand in the air, chants a few words, and casts a fireball.
Class B adjusts the nozzle on a device, pulls a trigger, and creates a sphere of fire with a 20 foot radius that does 8d6 damage with Dexterity saving throw.
Is there a meaningful enough difference between those two effects to warrant two different rules systems for each?
I believe the answer is very much so, though both can produce similar effects, their cause, reactions and how they work can be different: if you apply the logic that “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic--Arthur C Clarke,” then both can be seen as different forms of technology, powered and accessed by different things and vulnerable to different forms of anti-magic (or anti-technology I guess).
I think the point is more like, sooner or later this power will get used in game and someone will make a saving throw, and someone else will make a damage roll, and the rest is more or less flavor. So just use the game mechanics from fireball and save yourself done work.
This comes across like saying “why homebrew a campaign when you can just use Forgotten Realms and published adventures? Save yourself some work”
There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to homebrew a class for a specific theme. Or for any reason, for that matter. If it was all “reflavor” then maybe DDB should just delete the entire homebrew section of the site and everything in it. But sometimes reflavoring is exactly what’s needed and sometimes a homebrew class is. And I really like reflavoring spells or features to fit a character concept I’m going for.
I like to take an existing world and create a new area inside it if I need a new setting.
If not then I just work with pre existing settings and run all new adventures out of them.
I have even had old retired characters hire new characters for missions. Not every campaign has to be world changing or even known world wide. Think of our ancient world. How long would it take to get word of the Trojan War all the way to Japan? And the Trojan War was one heck of a campaign.
I think the point is more like, sooner or later this power will get used in game and someone will make a saving throw, and someone else will make a damage roll, and the rest is more or less flavor. So just use the game mechanics from fireball and save yourself done work.
This comes across like saying “why homebrew a campaign when you can just use Forgotten Realms and published adventures? Save yourself some work”
There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to homebrew a class for a specific theme. Or for any reason, for that matter. If it was all “reflavor” then maybe DDB should just delete the entire homebrew section of the site and everything in it. But sometimes reflavoring is exactly what’s needed and sometimes a homebrew class is. And I really like reflavoring spells or features to fit a character concept I’m going for.
I like to take an existing world and create a new area inside it if I need a new setting.
If not then I just work with pre existing settings and run all new adventures out of them.
I have even had old retired characters hire new characters for missions. Not every campaign has to be world changing or even known world wide. Think of our ancient world. How long would it take to get word of the Trojan War all the way to Japan? And the Trojan War was one heck of a campaign.
If you really like using stuff from wizard of the coast modules, that's fine; if you want to play with something from the modules that's reflavored or mechanically altered, or something homebrewed, that's also fine; it all depends on who you're making the content for. Also it's fine to imitate, so long as credit is given where credit is due, "Good artists copy, great artists steal--Pablo Picasso." In a way, you could say every generation of life steals something from it's ancestors and sometimes makes something completely different, like a different person.
You know this is in the context of a game, right? Everyone here is basing anything they do on WotC material. These are the 5e boards, not any sort of 'Writing completely original games from scratch' forum. Nor is there even any talk of publishing this, so really not sure where you are coming from there...
I was trying to say that it's ok to take material from official and homebrewed content and make minor or significant changes so long as it's with the permission of the creator and isn't plagiarizing; the latter especially if you sell homebrewed content.
I get what you are wanting to do OP and I think it technically could be done... I just think it creates an imbalance in the setting.
You're setting up a homebrew class that would have to be carefully balanced in order to not be overpowered or underpowered. Are you going to make it equivalent to a full caster (and yes I understand you want to use technology and put it in this setting... I am just stating some things to what you are trying to balance it again) or are you going to make it more like a 1/2 caster or 1/3 caster, in terms of what their technology could reproduce magic effects.
Essentially also this homebrew class essentially can be mage killers to a degree... I mean after all can't counterspell technology, and if this is done to get around counter spell, isn't it just best to ban the spell at your table?
Thats not even equating to all the things that would have to be come up with to make the class playable (so you want to manufacture the stuff needed to be utilized to cast your moves, when do you have time to produce it, do you just buy it in a shop, if so what would the cost be, how long would it take to make enough stuff to be useful in combat, are you going to have a enough downtime to tinker with things, etc)... and again at this point I think that's a lot of work to put into the system (not trying to imply it's not worth it, just a ton of work) that ultimately will cause a balance shift in the world you're creating.
That's actually why lot's of folks just tried to point out the artificer class ultimately can do what you want to a degree it just needs to be described a certain way in order to work.
I get what you are wanting to do OP and I think it technically could be done... I just think it creates an imbalance in the setting.
You're setting up a homebrew class that would have to be carefully balanced in order to not be overpowered or underpowered. Are you going to make it equivalent to a full caster (and yes I understand you want to use technology and put it in this setting... I am just stating some things to what you are trying to balance it again) or are you going to make it more like a 1/2 caster or 1/3 caster, in terms of what their technology could reproduce magic effects.
Essentially also this homebrew class essentially can be mage killers to a degree... I mean after all can't counterspell technology, and if this is done to get around counter spell, isn't it just best to ban the spell at your table?
Thats not even equating to all the things that would have to be come up with to make the class playable (so you want to manufacture the stuff needed to be utilized to cast your moves, when do you have time to produce it, do you just buy it in a shop, if so what would the cost be, how long would it take to make enough stuff to be useful in combat, are you going to have a enough downtime to tinker with things, etc)... and again at this point I think that's a lot of work to put into the system (not trying to imply it's not worth it, just a ton of work) that ultimately will cause a balance shift in the world you're creating.
That's actually why lot's of folks just tried to point out the artificer class ultimately can do what you want to a degree it just needs to be described a certain way in order to work.
Until proven otherwise I thinks it's possible to balance this homebrew class feature, besides it takes time and thought to balance any class
Characters with this class can't cast spells; no official reason yet, but it could be because of curse or some innate magical ineptitude. Instead of being a medium for magic this class (placeholder name "martial mage") harvests magic from special forms of light, sound and substrates and converts it into a compressed, magical battery. The martial mage can use magic to power glyphs, an alternative fuel source for its tech or to magically enhance crafted items.
Not supposed to replace counterspell, their just isn't any class with an anti-magic feature that I'm aware of and I thought it might be cool to make one.
How fast magic can be harvested from light and sound depends on how short the wavelengths are, as well as other factors:
The fastest a battery can be charged by light is 30 minutes (mid-day on a perfect sunny day, during the perihelion), any other daylight or moonlight takes longer to harvest at different rates, from a few extra minutes to an hour; overcast prevents light harvesting.
Harvesting from sound depends on how high the pitch is, how harmonious it is and how much noise is in the environment
Harvesting from substrates depends on how much energy is released from the chemical reaction, so the more energy a substance has, the more can be released and the faster harvesting is done.
I think the time to craft the batteries might take 30 in-game minutes each, but the time could vary depending on skill checks for crafting the batteries, proficiency or expertise in certain artisan tools and if it's a small battery or a larger battery.
The batteries can only be bought in high end specialty stores, but the materials to produce them are common and affordable for those with moderate wealth; does 10g for a battery and 1g to craft a battery sound balanced?
I didn’t quite understand what you were going for but now that you explained about batteries it’s a little more clear. It might be good to utilize the short rest or long rest mechanic for creating or recharging batteries to simplify the process.
I didn’t quite understand what you were going for but now that you explained about batteries it’s a little more clear. It might be good to utilize the short rest or long rest mechanic for creating or recharging batteries to simplify the process.
I was developing the homebrew as the thread progressed; some of the questions helped. Speaking of which, I think the best primary abilities to fit the class would be dexterity and intelligence.
Considering how the class is partly about using technologies and harvesting magic I think intelligence and dexterity fit this theme best, as knowing how to build the machinery and the procedures for harvesting the magic will require high intelligence, and handling equipment like tinkerers tools on intricate or otherwise dangerous tech requires good dexterity too; plus I imagined a sort of stealthy ninja-like aspect to the class.
I get what you are wanting to do OP and I think it technically could be done... I just think it creates an imbalance in the setting.
You're setting up a homebrew class that would have to be carefully balanced in order to not be overpowered or underpowered. Are you going to make it equivalent to a full caster (and yes I understand you want to use technology and put it in this setting... I am just stating some things to what you are trying to balance it again) or are you going to make it more like a 1/2 caster or 1/3 caster, in terms of what their technology could reproduce magic effects.
Essentially also this homebrew class essentially can be mage killers to a degree... I mean after all can't counterspell technology, and if this is done to get around counter spell, isn't it just best to ban the spell at your table?
Thats not even equating to all the things that would have to be come up with to make the class playable (so you want to manufacture the stuff needed to be utilized to cast your moves, when do you have time to produce it, do you just buy it in a shop, if so what would the cost be, how long would it take to make enough stuff to be useful in combat, are you going to have a enough downtime to tinker with things, etc)... and again at this point I think that's a lot of work to put into the system (not trying to imply it's not worth it, just a ton of work) that ultimately will cause a balance shift in the world you're creating.
That's actually why lot's of folks just tried to point out the artificer class ultimately can do what you want to a degree it just needs to be described a certain way in order to work.
Until proven otherwise I thinks it's possible to balance this homebrew class feature, besides it takes time and thought to balance any class
Characters with this class can't cast spells; no official reason yet, but it could be because of curse or some innate magical ineptitude. Instead of being a medium for magic this class (placeholder name "martial mage") harvests magic from special forms of light, sound and substrates and converts it into a compressed, magical battery. The martial mage can use magic to power glyphs, an alternative fuel source for its tech or to magically enhance crafted items.
Not supposed to replace counterspell, their just isn't any class with an anti-magic feature that I'm aware of and I thought it might be cool to make one.
How fast magic can be harvested from light and sound depends on how short the wavelengths are, as well as other factors:
The fastest a battery can be charged by light is 30 minutes (mid-day on a perfect sunny day, during the perihelion), any other daylight or moonlight takes longer to harvest at different rates, from a few extra minutes to an hour; overcast prevents light harvesting.
Harvesting from sound depends on how high the pitch is, how harmonious it is and how much noise is in the environment
Harvesting from substrates depends on how much energy is released from the chemical reaction, so the more energy a substance has, the more can be released and the faster harvesting is done.
I think the time to craft the batteries might take 30 in-game minutes each, but the time could vary depending on skill checks for crafting the batteries, proficiency or expertise in certain artisan tools and if it's a small battery or a larger battery.
The batteries can only be bought in high end specialty stores, but the materials to produce them are common and affordable for those with moderate wealth; does 10g for a battery and 1g to craft a battery sound balanced?
Again it's not that the class can't be balanced it's how much work (and not just on the class but on the world) that it takes to world build just for that class.
Which brings me to questions (which is necessary to even begin to start solving some of the problems of the class) does anyone in this world have magic, is this other form of channeling magic widespread, you also say this is supposed to be technology vs using magic (which again makes dispel magic and counter spell useless virtually if you're adhering strictly to one version of that), is it technology actually channeling magic or are you using magic things to create technology, etc.
And again most of these problems can be fixed by using the artificer. Yes mechanically speaking they cast spells but if you read the class you justify it that they are creating things using technology to create magical effects. Can there spells mechanically be counter spelled, yes and that's supposed to be justified (although a DM could overule, disallow counterspell, or a different ruling) due to the fact that the technology they create is somehow tapping into magic (which is technically what you're class is even doing according to your often used description of using things in the world that are magic in nature or have magical properties to create technology that gives off magical effects.
Again I get the idea of what you are doing but I think that utilizing such a class just causes so many more complications when there is an easy already established way to get what you would like.
I get what you are wanting to do OP and I think it technically could be done... I just think it creates an imbalance in the setting.
You're setting up a homebrew class that would have to be carefully balanced in order to not be overpowered or underpowered. Are you going to make it equivalent to a full caster (and yes I understand you want to use technology and put it in this setting... I am just stating some things to what you are trying to balance it again) or are you going to make it more like a 1/2 caster or 1/3 caster, in terms of what their technology could reproduce magic effects.
Essentially also this homebrew class essentially can be mage killers to a degree... I mean after all can't counterspell technology, and if this is done to get around counter spell, isn't it just best to ban the spell at your table?
Thats not even equating to all the things that would have to be come up with to make the class playable (so you want to manufacture the stuff needed to be utilized to cast your moves, when do you have time to produce it, do you just buy it in a shop, if so what would the cost be, how long would it take to make enough stuff to be useful in combat, are you going to have a enough downtime to tinker with things, etc)... and again at this point I think that's a lot of work to put into the system (not trying to imply it's not worth it, just a ton of work) that ultimately will cause a balance shift in the world you're creating.
That's actually why lot's of folks just tried to point out the artificer class ultimately can do what you want to a degree it just needs to be described a certain way in order to work.
Until proven otherwise I thinks it's possible to balance this homebrew class feature, besides it takes time and thought to balance any class
Characters with this class can't cast spells; no official reason yet, but it could be because of curse or some innate magical ineptitude. Instead of being a medium for magic this class (placeholder name "martial mage") harvests magic from special forms of light, sound and substrates and converts it into a compressed, magical battery. The martial mage can use magic to power glyphs, an alternative fuel source for its tech or to magically enhance crafted items.
Not supposed to replace counterspell, their just isn't any class with an anti-magic feature that I'm aware of and I thought it might be cool to make one.
How fast magic can be harvested from light and sound depends on how short the wavelengths are, as well as other factors:
The fastest a battery can be charged by light is 30 minutes (mid-day on a perfect sunny day, during the perihelion), any other daylight or moonlight takes longer to harvest at different rates, from a few extra minutes to an hour; overcast prevents light harvesting.
Harvesting from sound depends on how high the pitch is, how harmonious it is and how much noise is in the environment
Harvesting from substrates depends on how much energy is released from the chemical reaction, so the more energy a substance has, the more can be released and the faster harvesting is done.
I think the time to craft the batteries might take 30 in-game minutes each, but the time could vary depending on skill checks for crafting the batteries, proficiency or expertise in certain artisan tools and if it's a small battery or a larger battery.
The batteries can only be bought in high end specialty stores, but the materials to produce them are common and affordable for those with moderate wealth; does 10g for a battery and 1g to craft a battery sound balanced?
Again it's not that the class can't be balanced it's how much work (and not just on the class but on the world) that it takes to world build just for that class.
Which brings me to questions (which is necessary to even begin to start solving some of the problems of the class) does anyone in this world have magic, is this other form of channeling magic widespread, you also say this is supposed to be technology vs using magic (which again makes dispel magic and counter spell useless virtually if you're adhering strictly to one version of that), is it technology actually channeling magic or are you using magic things to create technology, etc.
And again most of these problems can be fixed by using the artificer. Yes mechanically speaking they cast spells but if you read the class you justify it that they are creating things using technology to create magical effects. Can there spells mechanically be counter spelled, yes and that's supposed to be justified (although a DM could overule, disallow counterspell, or a different ruling) due to the fact that the technology they create is somehow tapping into magic (which is technically what you're class is even doing according to your often used description of using things in the world that are magic in nature or have magical properties to create technology that gives off magical effects.
Again I get the idea of what you are doing but I think that utilizing such a class just causes so many more complications when there is an easy already established way to get what you would like.
Maybe I’m just not understanding but how is it affecting world building that it requires a lot of work to do so? Plus how much work someone wants to do for homebrewing anything is completely up to them.
I play in one campaign and have one character yet I have over 70 characters in DDB because I like to make characters even though I will never get to play them. It’s fun for me so I just do it.
if they chose to play in FR would it really be much “work” to drop this in and say some people can do this?
I guess it comes down to how much magic they can do. Is it just a full caster (or half or third) that doesn’t use spell slots? Or like a warlock’s invocations that produce an effect (not the “you can cast X spell ones”)? Or rune knight’s runes? Or Arcane archer shots? Or even Four Elements Monk’s Fangs of the Fire snake, Fist of unbroken air, Shape the flowing water, or water whip? These are not spells and can’t be counterspelled or dispelled as far as I know.
Personally, I think the idea sounds nifty and as such, I am tinkering with an idea to maybe make a pair of subclasses surrounding this harvesting of magic.
First would be based on a Rogue and I think I would use the AT as a basis adding a few more spells/level while losing any other benefit. It would allow spells from the Wizard list, which I would pare down to those I see as best fitting my intent for the sub. Second would be based on the Monk and again, spell slots (item uses/day) would likely steal from the AT progression as above. Spells would come from the Cleric, again, pared down to a smaller list that I felt best suited the role. At 10th, each would be allowed 2 x 3rd level and 1 x 4th level spell to learn. 15th Learn to recover/recharge PB level slot once per day on Short Rest 17th TBD 20th TBD Rogue would have Sneak Attack damage scale slower for balance purposes. Monk would have Martial Arts die cap at a d8 for balance
Initial crafting of the vessels would require magical energy, from spells being cast at or on the items as they are crafted, or magical items to be drawn from while he process is done. This would create a magically infused item, which would then be "loaded" each morning through a process which would involve adding any material components the spells would normally require and/or any other flavoring that seems to make sense (more thought required on the details here) Cantrip-type items would require significant magical induction to craft and one could be "altered" every (8 - PB) days during the morning's spell preparation.
I know there would be a lot of tweaking and a lot more detail, but a quick brainstorming sketched out the base pretty easily. Again, I am sure balancing it properly will be crucial, as well as creating a handful of effects ONLY this subclass would have. It feels like it will be a challenging task, lol. Good luck on your own to the OP and thanks for dropping the mind worm.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Again it's not that the class can't be balanced it's how much work (and not just on the class but on the world) that it takes to world build just for that class.
Which brings me to questions (which is necessary to even begin to start solving some of the problems of the class) does anyone in this world have magic, is this other form of channeling magic widespread, you also say this is supposed to be technology vs using magic (which again makes dispel magic and counter spell useless virtually if you're adhering strictly to one version of that), is it technology actually channeling magic or are you using magic things to create technology, etc.
And again most of these problems can be fixed by using the artificer. Yes mechanically speaking they cast spells but if you read the class you justify it that they are creating things using technology to create magical effects. Can there spells mechanically be counter spelled, yes and that's supposed to be justified (although a DM could overule, disallow counterspell, or a different ruling) due to the fact that the technology they create is somehow tapping into magic (which is technically what you're class is even doing according to your often used description of using things in the world that are magic in nature or have magical properties to create technology that gives off magical effects.
Again I get the idea of what you are doing but I think that utilizing such a class just causes so many more complications when there is an easy already established way to get what you would like.
I already said that magic is harnessed by the class, also they may be under a curse that prevents them from spellcasting
This methodology for harnessing magic is rare; there were certain circumstances that forced characters of this class to become martial mages. Still no official origin yet: they could have been dealt a curse that prevents them from spellcasting; it could be they were born inept at spellcasting; it could even be because their ancestors lived for centuries underneath the edge of a giant, wide-open cave entrance, which is actually the armpit of a petrified giant that discriminately ate spellcasters for satisfaction, got petrified while hunting spellcasters and sweated out magic stealing stalactites and stalagmites that have been feeding off of said ancestors for years and requiring them to artificially produce magic at a faster rate than the cave could steal
The martial mage uses non-magically powered technology to harness magic and store them into batteries, I have already explained this. They then use the batteries as an alternative fuel source and to create glyphs that magically enhance items
I've already explained most of these questions in post #53
Maybe I’m just not understanding but how is it affecting world building that it requires a lot of work to do so? Plus how much work someone wants to do for homebrewing anything is completely up to them.
I play in one campaign and have one character yet I have over 70 characters in DDB because I like to make characters even though I will never get to play them. It’s fun for me so I just do it.
if they chose to play in FR would it really be much “work” to drop this in and say some people can do this?
I guess it comes down to how much magic they can do. Is it just a full caster (or half or third) that doesn’t use spell slots? Or like a warlock’s invocations that produce an effect (not the “you can cast X spell ones”)? Or rune knight’s runes? Or Arcane archer shots? Or even Four Elements Monk’s Fangs of the Fire snake, Fist of unbroken air, Shape the flowing water, or water whip? These are not spells and can’t be counterspelled or dispelled as far as I know.
I think some people just focus on the lore and roleplaying aspects of content before mechanics? Other people might make homebrews starting with mechanics and then expand on that. When I first started this class, it was originally mechanical ideas for another homebrew class I was making. I still like this idea of anti-magic and magic tech, but as this idea developed I realized it didn't synergize with my other ideas, so I decided to make the martial mage a different class from the original.
Whether you start a homebrew by an idea for a mechanic or an idea for a story, go with what comes naturally and build on that, ideas don't form in any particular order
Oh I agree. There are a number of ways to approach homebrew. It’s just the lore argument or world balance just seems odd to me. Even if you took all the lore of a campaign setting does that mean that something new can’t happen? Like your examples, it could be that something happens now, not something established for millennia. Or could be from an isolated pocket in the world. The consternation of a deity with a small town or village and now they can’t access magic like wizards can, but they develop a new method.
And let’s face it, adventurers and heroes are a small fraction of the population in any campaign setting so it seems hardly world balance shifting by any means.
I like your idea and I hope you share more of it as it develops.
Oh I agree. There are a number of ways to approach homebrew. It’s just the lore argument or world balance just seems odd to me. Even if you took all the lore of a campaign setting does that mean that something new can’t happen? Like your examples, it could be that something happens now, not something established for millennia. Or could be from an isolated pocket in the world. The consternation of a deity with a small town or village and now they can’t access magic like wizards can, but they develop a new method.
And let’s face it, adventurers and heroes are a small fraction of the population in any campaign setting so it seems hardly world balance shifting by any means.
I like your idea and I hope you share more of it as it develops.
Thank you; criticism is plenty, but compliments are rare
Though I also have the constructive and thought-provoking criticism to thank for pushing my ideas further and helping to evolve them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It's kind of a headache: if artificer or technomancer or whatever you are referring to uses magic to infuse their technology, and technology can become indistinguishable from magic when it's sufficiently advanced enough, then this would be infusing primitive technology with advanced technology.
I think the point is more like, sooner or later this power will get used in game and someone will make a saving throw, and someone else will make a damage roll, and the rest is more or less flavor. So just use the game mechanics from fireball and save yourself done work.
OK, so "can it be done in D&D" : yes.
You can take the artificer's "spellcasting, but reflavoured" route.
Or create the effects manually as class features.
Your answer is yes either way.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
This comes across like saying “why homebrew a campaign when you can just use Forgotten Realms and published adventures? Save yourself some work”
There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to homebrew a class for a specific theme. Or for any reason, for that matter. If it was all “reflavor” then maybe DDB should just delete the entire homebrew section of the site and everything in it. But sometimes reflavoring is exactly what’s needed and sometimes a homebrew class is. And I really like reflavoring spells or features to fit a character concept I’m going for.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I like to take an existing world and create a new area inside it if I need a new setting.
If not then I just work with pre existing settings and run all new adventures out of them.
I have even had old retired characters hire new characters for missions. Not every campaign has to be world changing or even known world wide. Think of our ancient world. How long would it take to get word of the Trojan War all the way to Japan? And the Trojan War was one heck of a campaign.
If you really like using stuff from wizard of the coast modules, that's fine; if you want to play with something from the modules that's reflavored or mechanically altered, or something homebrewed, that's also fine; it all depends on who you're making the content for. Also it's fine to imitate, so long as credit is given where credit is due, "Good artists copy, great artists steal--Pablo Picasso." In a way, you could say every generation of life steals something from it's ancestors and sometimes makes something completely different, like a different person.
.
I was trying to say that it's ok to take material from official and homebrewed content and make minor or significant changes so long as it's with the permission of the creator and isn't plagiarizing; the latter especially if you sell homebrewed content.
I get what you are wanting to do OP and I think it technically could be done... I just think it creates an imbalance in the setting.
You're setting up a homebrew class that would have to be carefully balanced in order to not be overpowered or underpowered. Are you going to make it equivalent to a full caster (and yes I understand you want to use technology and put it in this setting... I am just stating some things to what you are trying to balance it again) or are you going to make it more like a 1/2 caster or 1/3 caster, in terms of what their technology could reproduce magic effects.
Essentially also this homebrew class essentially can be mage killers to a degree... I mean after all can't counterspell technology, and if this is done to get around counter spell, isn't it just best to ban the spell at your table?
Thats not even equating to all the things that would have to be come up with to make the class playable (so you want to manufacture the stuff needed to be utilized to cast your moves, when do you have time to produce it, do you just buy it in a shop, if so what would the cost be, how long would it take to make enough stuff to be useful in combat, are you going to have a enough downtime to tinker with things, etc)... and again at this point I think that's a lot of work to put into the system (not trying to imply it's not worth it, just a ton of work) that ultimately will cause a balance shift in the world you're creating.
That's actually why lot's of folks just tried to point out the artificer class ultimately can do what you want to a degree it just needs to be described a certain way in order to work.
I didn’t quite understand what you were going for but now that you explained about batteries it’s a little more clear. It might be good to utilize the short rest or long rest mechanic for creating or recharging batteries to simplify the process.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I was developing the homebrew as the thread progressed; some of the questions helped. Speaking of which, I think the best primary abilities to fit the class would be dexterity and intelligence.
Considering how the class is partly about using technologies and harvesting magic I think intelligence and dexterity fit this theme best, as knowing how to build the machinery and the procedures for harvesting the magic will require high intelligence, and handling equipment like tinkerers tools on intricate or otherwise dangerous tech requires good dexterity too; plus I imagined a sort of stealthy ninja-like aspect to the class.
Again it's not that the class can't be balanced it's how much work (and not just on the class but on the world) that it takes to world build just for that class.
Which brings me to questions (which is necessary to even begin to start solving some of the problems of the class) does anyone in this world have magic, is this other form of channeling magic widespread, you also say this is supposed to be technology vs using magic (which again makes dispel magic and counter spell useless virtually if you're adhering strictly to one version of that), is it technology actually channeling magic or are you using magic things to create technology, etc.
And again most of these problems can be fixed by using the artificer. Yes mechanically speaking they cast spells but if you read the class you justify it that they are creating things using technology to create magical effects. Can there spells mechanically be counter spelled, yes and that's supposed to be justified (although a DM could overule, disallow counterspell, or a different ruling) due to the fact that the technology they create is somehow tapping into magic (which is technically what you're class is even doing according to your often used description of using things in the world that are magic in nature or have magical properties to create technology that gives off magical effects.
Again I get the idea of what you are doing but I think that utilizing such a class just causes so many more complications when there is an easy already established way to get what you would like.
Maybe I’m just not understanding but how is it affecting world building that it requires a lot of work to do so? Plus how much work someone wants to do for homebrewing anything is completely up to them.
I play in one campaign and have one character yet I have over 70 characters in DDB because I like to make characters even though I will never get to play them. It’s fun for me so I just do it.
if they chose to play in FR would it really be much “work” to drop this in and say some people can do this?
I guess it comes down to how much magic they can do. Is it just a full caster (or half or third) that doesn’t use spell slots? Or like a warlock’s invocations that produce an effect (not the “you can cast X spell ones”)? Or rune knight’s runes? Or Arcane archer shots? Or even Four Elements Monk’s Fangs of the Fire snake, Fist of unbroken air, Shape the flowing water, or water whip? These are not spells and can’t be counterspelled or dispelled as far as I know.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Personally, I think the idea sounds nifty and as such, I am tinkering with an idea to maybe make a pair of subclasses surrounding this harvesting of magic.
First would be based on a Rogue and I think I would use the AT as a basis adding a few more spells/level while losing any other benefit. It would allow spells from the Wizard list, which I would pare down to those I see as best fitting my intent for the sub.
Second would be based on the Monk and again, spell slots (item uses/day) would likely steal from the AT progression as above. Spells would come from the Cleric, again, pared down to a smaller list that I felt best suited the role.
At 10th, each would be allowed 2 x 3rd level and 1 x 4th level spell to learn.
15th Learn to recover/recharge PB level slot once per day on Short Rest
17th TBD
20th TBD
Rogue would have Sneak Attack damage scale slower for balance purposes.
Monk would have Martial Arts die cap at a d8 for balance
Initial crafting of the vessels would require magical energy, from spells being cast at or on the items as they are crafted, or magical items to be drawn from while he process is done. This would create a magically infused item, which would then be "loaded" each morning through a process which would involve adding any material components the spells would normally require and/or any other flavoring that seems to make sense (more thought required on the details here)
Cantrip-type items would require significant magical induction to craft and one could be "altered" every (8 - PB) days during the morning's spell preparation.
I know there would be a lot of tweaking and a lot more detail, but a quick brainstorming sketched out the base pretty easily. Again, I am sure balancing it properly will be crucial, as well as creating a handful of effects ONLY this subclass would have. It feels like it will be a challenging task, lol. Good luck on your own to the OP and thanks for dropping the mind worm.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
I think some people just focus on the lore and roleplaying aspects of content before mechanics? Other people might make homebrews starting with mechanics and then expand on that. When I first started this class, it was originally mechanical ideas for another homebrew class I was making. I still like this idea of anti-magic and magic tech, but as this idea developed I realized it didn't synergize with my other ideas, so I decided to make the martial mage a different class from the original.
Whether you start a homebrew by an idea for a mechanic or an idea for a story, go with what comes naturally and build on that, ideas don't form in any particular order
Oh I agree. There are a number of ways to approach homebrew. It’s just the lore argument or world balance just seems odd to me. Even if you took all the lore of a campaign setting does that mean that something new can’t happen? Like your examples, it could be that something happens now, not something established for millennia. Or could be from an isolated pocket in the world. The consternation of a deity with a small town or village and now they can’t access magic like wizards can, but they develop a new method.
And let’s face it, adventurers and heroes are a small fraction of the population in any campaign setting so it seems hardly world balance shifting by any means.
I like your idea and I hope you share more of it as it develops.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Thank you; criticism is plenty, but compliments are rare
Though I also have the constructive and thought-provoking criticism to thank for pushing my ideas further and helping to evolve them.