All I'll say is that I hope they put in more effort with Planescape than what they apparently put in here.
That's the only future 5e product I know of that I have any real emotional investment in.
Yeah, prepare to be disappointed. After the last few releases, and the general"less lore" approach, I can't see how the Planescape could actually end up being good.
Yeah. This is why I got ahead of the curve and compiled the information I need about the planes from existing lore. But I am still curious to see what they do with it in 5e.
Also, with regards to spelljamming helms, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a way to upgrade the spelljamming helm or even the spelljammer itself. That seems a bit of a missed opportunity, since practically every game involving spaceships I've seen has also included ways to upgrade those ships over time to take on bigger threats. Like increasing the ship's speed, or adding defenses to the ship, or providing the person sitting in the helm with protection themselves so someone can't just come in and hijack it like clockwork horrors.
All I'll say is that I hope they put in more effort with Planescape than what they apparently put in here.
That's the only future 5e product I know of that I have any real emotional investment in.
Yeah, prepare to be disappointed. After the last few releases, and the general"less lore" approach, I can't see how the Planescape could actually end up being good.
Planescape is my favourite setting, too. I now am filled with low-key dread at what WotC is going to do with/to it.
Lets discuss what you liked and didn't like about the new Spelljammer: Adventures in Space box set
Full disclosure; I was not going to buy Spelljammer, but I've read this thread and I just saw Jorphan (on YouTube) review it. And I'm absolutely shocked how flippin' BAD this is. The lack of ship combat and movement rules alone is just gob smackingly stupid. This is literally a text book example of how to screw up. Sure, there's great monsters and everything else there, really strong stuff. But if you don't have fun ships to fly around and fight your just taking a ferry from place to place. The ships have to matter.
I say this as someone who did play Jeff Grubb's Spelljammer back in the day, which is a classic. Which is why D&D players wanted Spelljammer for 5e in the first place. There was literally a previous guide to follow here peeps. Sheeeesh. imho
Be careful getting your only info from content creators.
To be fair, a lot of folks in this very thread have been echoing similar sentiments. Beyond that, they'll have to basically spend money on this thing to find out for themselves, which is generally not something I would ask of a person.
Even MSRP isn’t bad. $60 for all three books (assuming $10 for the screen) is a little more than a normal book at $50 but it like it’s worth it to have them in three separate books.
A) Exactly how how is "3 seperate books!" a selling point if you have to buy them all as a unit anyway?
B) It doesn't matter how affordable/extortionate the books are if their contents aren't very good to begin (whetherwith.
C) 10 freedom bucks for a glorified piece of card-stock!?
Also, up here in canada that sucker has a listed price of 91.99 whereas ravenloft has a 65.95 price tag and frankly it feels like I get a lot more bang for my buck.
Ravenlot gives me 3 races, 2 subclasses, 2 back grounds, detailed notes on 17 domains and 22 briefs, a plethora of horror themed NPCs and monsters, Strong suggestions for running a horror themed campaign (whether or not that's in the domain of dread). Hell it even comes with a short adventure thats at about the same level of quality as the one that came with Spelljammer.
Really, everything you could possibly want for running a raven loft campaign is here, with no need to worry about huge gaps in rules or railroading or whatever.
Even MSRP isn’t bad. $60 for all three books (assuming $10 for the screen) is a little more than a normal book at $50 but it like it’s worth it to have them in three separate books.
A) Exactly how how is "3 seperate books!" a selling point if you have to buy them all as a unit anyway?
B) It doesn't matter how affordable/extortionate the books are if their contents aren't very good to begin (whetherwith.
C) 10 freedom bucks for a glorified piece of card-stock!?
Also, up here in canada that sucker has a listed price of 91.99 whereas ravenloft has a 65.95 price tag and frankly it feels like I get a lot more bang for my buck.
Ravenlot gives me 3 races, 2 subclasses, 2 back grounds, detailed notes on 17 domains and 22 briefs, a plethora of horror themed NPCs and monsters, Strong suggestions for running a horror themed campaign (whether or not that's in the domain of dread). Hell it even comes with a short adventure thats at about the same level of quality as the one that came with Spelljammer.
Really, everything you could possibly want for running a raven loft campaign is here, with no need to worry about huge gaps in rules or railroading or whatever.
Eberron: Rising from the Last War also cost less and gave you basically all you needed to run a campaign in Eberron.
Which is why, imo, the "it's a good deal" argument doesn't really work for this. Because we know WoTC has put out better products for cheaper in the past.
Be careful getting your only info from content creators.
I went into this pretty much blind; I knew that they were sub-dividing it into three parts which worried me because of how little space that would nominally leave for ya ~know~ space stuff and I was absolutely floored by the dearth of materials they actually included.
Even MSRP isn’t bad. $60 for all three books (assuming $10 for the screen) is a little more than a normal book at $50 but it like it’s worth it to have them in three separate books.
A) Exactly how how is "3 seperate books!" a selling point if you have to buy them all as a unit anyway?
B) It doesn't matter how affordable/extortionate the books are if their contents aren't very good to begin (whetherwith.
C) 10 freedom bucks for a glorified piece of card-stock!?
Also, up here in canada that sucker has a listed price of 91.99 whereas ravenloft has a 65.95 price tag and frankly it feels like I get a lot more bang for my buck.
Ravenlot gives me 3 races, 2 subclasses, 2 back grounds, detailed notes on 17 domains and 22 briefs, a plethora of horror themed NPCs and monsters, Strong suggestions for running a horror themed campaign (whether or not that's in the domain of dread). Hell it even comes with a short adventure thats at about the same level of quality as the one that came with Spelljammer.
Really, everything you could possibly want for running a raven loft campaign is here, with no need to worry about huge gaps in rules or railroading or whatever.
Eberron: Rising from the Last War also cost less and gave you basically all you needed to run a campaign in Eberron.
Which is why, imo, the "it's a good deal" argument doesn't really work for this. Because we know WoTC has put out better products for cheaper in the past.
And the thing that pisses me off is that if they'd just left out the module and maybe developed it into a full adventure we could of really had something here; the monsters are great and with some more effort they could have properly developed spelljammer's space elements by including things like abnormal planets, rules for how spelljammers handle, different kinds of helms, organizations and/or nations, an actual explanation of why the astral plane is a thing but crystal spheres aren't...
Like that's the most infuriating thing about Spelljammer; everything about it that isn't the bestiary feels like it's an incomplete rough draft for a much more interesting and better product then what we got.
If it's personal preference, then by definition the fact that you liked the content is personal preference too. But what is objectively accurate is this could have had a lot more content and a lot more work on it.
3) even if you ignore the screen it is only about $23 per nook. Not bad. the $13 with Amazon is a great deal.
The thing is, these "books" aren't really books. The PHB has about 5 times more pages than one of these books, and all three add up to exactly as many pages as Tashas and Xanathars do. This is not a great deal what so ever, especially to people like me who preordered it.
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BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
If it's personal preference, then by definition the fact that you liked the content is personal preference too. But what is objectively accurate is this could have had a lot more content and a lot more work on it.
3) even if you ignore the screen it is only about $23 per nook. Not bad. the $13 with Amazon is a great deal.
The thing is, these "books" aren't really books. The PHB has about 5 times more pages than one of these books, and all three add up to exactly as many pages as Tashas and Xanathars do. This is not a great deal what so ever, especially to people like me who preordered it.
Yep. It’s all personal preference here.
Books can always have more content. That didn’t mean anything. 😂
If it's personal preference, then by definition the fact that you liked the content is personal preference too. But what is objectively accurate is this could have had a lot more content and a lot more work on it.
3) even if you ignore the screen it is only about $23 per nook. Not bad. the $13 with Amazon is a great deal.
The thing is, these "books" aren't really books. The PHB has about 5 times more pages than one of these books, and all three add up to exactly as many pages as Tashas and Xanathars do. This is not a great deal what so ever, especially to people like me who preordered it.
Yep. It’s all personal preference here.
Books can always have more content. That didn’t mean anything. 😂
Um... You're not actually addressing any of my points here. The more content you have, the more bad content you are able to not use, because you have more content that provides other viable alternatives. Also, the more content, the more good stuff you'll probably have. No, having more content doesn't mean that it automatically will be better, but unless it's super rushed, X percent of the content will most likely be good, and so the bigger the content, the bigger the good portions of it.
Your point about a books content doesn't really even make sense, the more content, the more options you have and the more stuff you'll be able to use. I don't really get what you're saying, would you mind clarifying your point please?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
You said the books could have had more content and I responded that books can always have more content so I am not sure hat your point is.
Would I have liked more content? Sure it was good stuff that we got and I would have liked more of it I would love a book of just ships That said I am happy with what we got and for the price I paid for it
You said the books could have had more content and I responded that books can always have more content so I am not sure hat your point is.
Would I have liked more content? Sure it was good stuff that we got and I would have liked more of it I would love a book of just ships That said I am happy with what we got and for the price I paid for it
My point is that you called three tiny mini-books "books," and that the Spelljammer content is not much, and as demonstrated by the poll I made, 30 out of 36 people were not happy with it. Feel free to think the content is worth the price tag here, but to 83.3% of people, it's not.
You literally just said that books having more content doesn't "mean anything," and now your counterpoint to me saying it does is you saying you would've actually liked more content, but you're fine with the price you paid. You are inherently contradicting yourself, and in the bold point you literally leaft out mentioning my reply explaining what my point is. I don't see what you're confused about.
You said the books could have had more content and I responded that books can always have more content so I am not sure hat your point is.
Would I have liked more content? Sure it was good stuff that we got and I would have liked more of it I would love a book of just ships That said I am happy with what we got and for the price I paid for it
My point is that you called three tiny mini-books "books," and that the Spelljammer content is not much, and as demonstrated by the poll I made, 30 out of 36 people were not happy with it. Feel free to think the content is worth the price tag here, but to 83.3% of people, it's not.
You literally just said that books having more content doesn't "mean anything," and now your counterpoint to me saying it does is you saying you would've actually liked more content, but you're fine with the price you paid. You are inherently contradicting yourself, and in the bold point you literally leaft out mentioning my reply explaining what my point is. I don't see what you're confused about.
You said the books could have had more content and I responded that books can always have more content so I am not sure hat your point is.
Would I have liked more content? Sure it was good stuff that we got and I would have liked more of it I would love a book of just ships That said I am happy with what we got and for the price I paid for it
My point is that you called three tiny mini-books "books," and that the Spelljammer content is not much, and as demonstrated by the poll I made, 30 out of 36 people were not happy with it. Feel free to think the content is worth the price tag here, but to 83.3% of people, it's not.
You literally just said that books having more content doesn't "mean anything," and now your counterpoint to me saying it does is you saying you would've actually liked more content, but you're fine with the price you paid. You are inherently contradicting yourself, and in the bold point you literally leaft out mentioning my reply explaining what my point is. I don't see what you're confused about.
I am not contradicting anything. Saying the books can have more content is meaningless. Books can always have more content. The MM could have had more monsters. That doesn't mean what we got was bad or not a good value.
And your "poll" is very unscientific. But even if 83% of people were unsaticfied with the product that doesn't mean that the content is objectively bad or I shouldn't be satisfied with my purchase.
You seem upset that I am happy with my purchase. Not sure why my happiness makes you unhappy but here we are.
The issue that is being put forward isn't that the books didn't have more content. The issue is being put forward is what content it's missing.
It doesn't have comprehensive ship combat rules, and even Ghosts of Saltmarsh and Descent into Avernus-type rules would have been better than almost nothing. It doesn't have very much information about the Wildspace bubbles you can encounter beyond the few in the adventure module, or even any real tips on how you can homebrew your own beyond it has to have a sun and a number of planets with moons orbiting them (as far as I've seen). It doesn't have methods of upgrading your ship like Ghosts of Saltmarsh and Descent into Avernus have for their vehicles. It only has three magic items, when there could have been more, given the setting. Also a complaint I've seen from time to time is how the ship repair rules seem....odd.
It's not only the volume of content but also the type of content that people are up in arms about.
Yeah. This is why I got ahead of the curve and compiled the information I need about the planes from existing lore. But I am still curious to see what they do with it in 5e.
Also, with regards to spelljamming helms, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a way to upgrade the spelljamming helm or even the spelljammer itself. That seems a bit of a missed opportunity, since practically every game involving spaceships I've seen has also included ways to upgrade those ships over time to take on bigger threats. Like increasing the ship's speed, or adding defenses to the ship, or providing the person sitting in the helm with protection themselves so someone can't just come in and hijack it like clockwork horrors.
People saying that 50-60$ for what amounts to a 18$ pdf on DMsguild in terms of content, are delussional...
You're the reason why WotC thinks they can milk people and get scott free...
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
Planescape is my favourite setting, too. I now am filled with low-key dread at what WotC is going to do with/to it.
Full disclosure; I was not going to buy Spelljammer, but I've read this thread and I just saw Jorphan (on YouTube) review it. And I'm absolutely shocked how flippin' BAD this is. The lack of ship combat and movement rules alone is just gob smackingly stupid. This is literally a text book example of how to screw up. Sure, there's great monsters and everything else there, really strong stuff. But if you don't have fun ships to fly around and fight your just taking a ferry from place to place. The ships have to matter.
I say this as someone who did play Jeff Grubb's Spelljammer back in the day, which is a classic. Which is why D&D players wanted Spelljammer for 5e in the first place. There was literally a previous guide to follow here peeps. Sheeeesh. imho
Be careful getting your only info from content creators.
To be fair, a lot of folks in this very thread have been echoing similar sentiments. Beyond that, they'll have to basically spend money on this thing to find out for themselves, which is generally not something I would ask of a person.
Sure, good advice. Which is why I look for other opinions, such as actually reading this thread. Works in journalism too.
Fair enough.
Also, up here in canada that sucker has a listed price of 91.99 whereas ravenloft has a 65.95 price tag and frankly it feels like I get a lot more bang for my buck.
Ravenlot gives me 3 races, 2 subclasses, 2 back grounds, detailed notes on 17 domains and 22 briefs, a plethora of horror themed NPCs and monsters, Strong suggestions for running a horror themed campaign (whether or not that's in the domain of dread). Hell it even comes with a short adventure thats at about the same level of quality as the one that came with Spelljammer.
Really, everything you could possibly want for running a raven loft campaign is here, with no need to worry about huge gaps in rules or railroading or whatever.
Eberron: Rising from the Last War also cost less and gave you basically all you needed to run a campaign in Eberron.
Which is why, imo, the "it's a good deal" argument doesn't really work for this. Because we know WoTC has put out better products for cheaper in the past.
I have so little faith in their ability to deliver on Planescape; that sucker is legendary for being the big brain "philosophers with clubs".
I went into this pretty much blind; I knew that they were sub-dividing it into three parts which worried me because of how little space that would nominally leave for ya ~know~ space stuff and I was absolutely floored by the dearth of materials they actually included.
And the thing that pisses me off is that if they'd just left out the module and maybe developed it into a full adventure we could of really had something here; the monsters are great and with some more effort they could have properly developed spelljammer's space elements by including things like abnormal planets, rules for how spelljammers handle, different kinds of helms, organizations and/or nations, an actual explanation of why the astral plane is a thing but crystal spheres aren't...
Like that's the most infuriating thing about Spelljammer; everything about it that isn't the bestiary feels like it's an incomplete rough draft for a much more interesting and better product then what we got.
If it's personal preference, then by definition the fact that you liked the content is personal preference too. But what is objectively accurate is this could have had a lot more content and a lot more work on it.
The thing is, these "books" aren't really books. The PHB has about 5 times more pages than one of these books, and all three add up to exactly as many pages as Tashas and Xanathars do. This is not a great deal what so ever, especially to people like me who preordered it.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Yep. It’s all personal preference here.
Books can always have more content. That didn’t mean anything. 😂
Um... You're not actually addressing any of my points here. The more content you have, the more bad content you are able to not use, because you have more content that provides other viable alternatives. Also, the more content, the more good stuff you'll probably have. No, having more content doesn't mean that it automatically will be better, but unless it's super rushed, X percent of the content will most likely be good, and so the bigger the content, the bigger the good portions of it.
Your point about a books content doesn't really even make sense, the more content, the more options you have and the more stuff you'll be able to use. I don't really get what you're saying, would you mind clarifying your point please?
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.You said the books could have had more content and I responded that books can always have more content so I am not sure hat your point is.
Would I have liked more content? Sure it was good stuff that we got and I would have liked more of it I would love a book of just ships That said I am happy with what we got and for the price I paid for it
My point is that you called three tiny mini-books "books," and that the Spelljammer content is not much, and as demonstrated by the poll I made, 30 out of 36 people were not happy with it. Feel free to think the content is worth the price tag here, but to 83.3% of people, it's not.
You literally just said that books having more content doesn't "mean anything," and now your counterpoint to me saying it does is you saying you would've actually liked more content, but you're fine with the price you paid. You are inherently contradicting yourself, and in the bold point you literally leaft out mentioning my reply explaining what my point is. I don't see what you're confused about.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.I am not contradicting anything. Saying the books can have more content is meaningless. Books can always have more content. The MM could have had more monsters. That doesn't mean what we got was bad or not a good value.
And your "poll" is very unscientific. But even if 83% of people were unsaticfied with the product that doesn't mean that the content is objectively bad or I shouldn't be satisfied with my purchase.
You seem upset that I am happy with my purchase. Not sure why my happiness makes you unhappy but here we are.
And I wasn't aware that these books lacked the page count to be called books. I guess there is some standard I am not aware of. LOL
The issue that is being put forward isn't that the books didn't have more content. The issue is being put forward is what content it's missing.
It doesn't have comprehensive ship combat rules, and even Ghosts of Saltmarsh and Descent into Avernus-type rules would have been better than almost nothing. It doesn't have very much information about the Wildspace bubbles you can encounter beyond the few in the adventure module, or even any real tips on how you can homebrew your own beyond it has to have a sun and a number of planets with moons orbiting them (as far as I've seen). It doesn't have methods of upgrading your ship like Ghosts of Saltmarsh and Descent into Avernus have for their vehicles. It only has three magic items, when there could have been more, given the setting. Also a complaint I've seen from time to time is how the ship repair rules seem....odd.
It's not only the volume of content but also the type of content that people are up in arms about.