But what if someone told you. Say the party rogue - or bard! - told you about the intelligent talking frogs of Klatch?
Half proficiency + an ability you don't need doesn't amount to much, so even with jack of all trades, the bard is a wonderful source for convincing misinformation.
So if you've heard of the wondrous intelligent talking frogs of Klatch - but no such thing actually exists - then can you polymorph into one?
I'd very much advice any DM against this. The exploit possibilities and bizarre suggestions would be an endless stream 😄 "I heard a story about an intelligent talking and flying wolf with a paralyzing poison stinger. It's also naturally cold resistant and has a hard protective chitin armor" . Not saying it's a slippery slope, but you would experience a barrage of questions about whether a certain kind of imaginary beast is ok.
So I'd say existing animals only. There can be exotic beasts of course, but the DM decides what they are like in their world.
You could still ask "is there an intelligent frog-like animal that I know enough about" .
Outside of princely interactions, it seems a little useless, so something of a situational spell =)
1) Turn self into talking frog
2) Claim to be a prince
Step 3: Realize that it's kinda hard to talk, when you don't have the right vocal chords. Step 4: Hire a ventriloquist.
Re 3: I had anticipated that question, thus specified a talking frog. If that cannot be achieved directly through the transformation then having some pre-prepared magic item as step 0 would cover it, but there even without that, making your claims to a druid or anyone else able to Speak with Animals or otherwise get around language barriers.
This is a magical setting. 'Having the right vocal chords' does not stop any other creature capable of communication.
To me it seems like many people take quite a bit of liberties with the part where you keep your alignment and personality. 😯
I've always considered Polymorph a 99% offensive spell with the exception of turning a friend into a mouse to smuggle them someplace.
But this is a matter of interpretation of the spell and ultimately up to the DM.
The way I see it:
If you turned yourself into an intelligent beast like Giant Eagle, then you would be able to follow and make plans and smart decisions. But if you turned yourself into a frog, you would have animal intelligence and be very instinct driven and not self-aware by nature. You wouldn't even understand that you are under a spell.
You would however probably be gentle and calm if that's in your personality.
The spell doesn't specify that you need to have seen the type of beast, but I'd say that it needs to exist and you must have a pretty good knowledge about it if you haven't seen it. So you can't make up a new intelligent frog if they don't exist.
There is plenty of folklore even in our real, non-magical world regarding intelligent animals. Why would someone worldly enough to be able to cast Polymorph not have knowledge, at least of the concept?
I suppose you'd have to know enough to tell which ones are real and which ones are just tales and how accurate the lore is. I'd call for a nature roll.
I suppose you'd have to know enough to tell which ones are real and which ones are just tales and how accurate the lore is. I'd call for a nature roll.
And if you get it wrong, you explode? Either you can specify what you become of you can't. Spell says you can. If you specify something the spell can't transform you into, wouldn't it just fail?
I'd say the spell fails. But I like being upfront and fair as DM. So I typically would let them know at least the odds before they attempt.
Basically it all boils down to one thing to consider. How powerful should a level 4 spell be?
There is a level 8 spell called Animal Shapes that among other things allows them to retain their mental scores. And it has a cr limitation. Wild shape too. Polymorph doesn't, so I think the mental stat bit is for a reason.
If you can ignore this with having lots of intelligent beast options, then it quickly becomes too strong for lvl 4 imo.
But like I said, this is my intepretation of RAI. Each DM makes their own decision. 🙂
I suppose you'd have to know enough to tell which ones are real and which ones are just tales and how accurate the lore is. I'd call for a nature roll.
And if you get it wrong, you explode? Either you can specify what you become of you can't. Spell says you can. If you specify something the spell can't transform you into, wouldn't it just fail?
I'd say the spell fails. But I like being upfront and fair as DM. So I typically would let them know at least the odds before they attempt.
Basically it all boils down to one thing to consider. How powerful should a level 4 spell be?
There is a level 8 spell called Animal Shapes that among other things allows them to retain their mental scores. And it has a cr limitation. Wild shape too. Polymorph doesn't, so I think the mental stat bit is for a reason.
If you can ignore this with having lots of intelligent beast options, then it quickly becomes too strong for lvl 4 imo.
But like I said, this is my intepretation of RAI. Each DM makes their own decision. 🙂
How powerful? Only talking an otherwise normal frog that can retain the caster's intellect here. That is not exactly world breaking levels of power.
Could the same concept be taken too far? Sure. However, other cases are other cases.
I think it's surprisingly powerful, even the frog. If it's both intelligent and able to talk. Even just intelligent. Because it's an absolutely normal animal. Basically if it's normal to have frogs in the area, you could just hop about anywhere you like without raising almost any suspicion AND talk about your infiltration plan meanwhile. This is very much a druid specialty. And even druids cannot talk in wild shape, so communication is very limited.
But more so, it's the concept in general that raises balance concerns for me.
I could probably allow this as a kind of special, character specific feature and limit it to this particular frog if the player would enjoy this theme. But not other animals. I would rule that intelligent and especially talking animals are extremely rare and elusive, so the only one to exist based on a player request is just this special frog and otherwise beasts must exist per my beastiary. 🙂
We dealt with a hostage situation by turning the boss guy into a giant tortoise because it's slow and quite harmless and has a ton of HP so his allies couldn't break the spell with damage. So we had time to kill his minions and save the hostage.
Sorcerer. Twinned polymorph is really good. And go with tortoises! 😄
I prefer killer whale to tortoise as they have no movement at all (assuming you are on land)
Polymorph is one of my favorite spells. One of the reasons is that the target cannot repeat the save. It's a save or lose kinda spell.
That is super rare and very very good. As long as you can maintain con and the target's polymorphed hp isn't reduced to 0, it cannot get out of the new shape.
This offers amazing strategic value. You can completely remove an enemy from the battle. Maybe a nasty caster, a hard hitter or even a boss that doesn't have legendary resi left.
It's great in lots of escape situations. Turn the toughest enemy into a giant tortoise and it cannot keep up with you.
Someone is harrassing you? Trying to pick a fight? Polymorph and walk away. An assassin tries to kill you? Polymorph and walk away. In one hour you'll be far away. Or polymorph and deliver them to prison.
If you are a sorcerer, you can freakin twin this. TWO enemies removed from the fight. That is amazingly strong.
What are some recomendations for beasts to turn an enemy into? I liked the suggestion of the giant tortle because it had a lot of hit points and so that its allies then couldn't then attack it to drop its HP to zero, in order to break the spell. I had always tried to select beasts with a small number of hit points because, before the spell ends, i would hope to have the party do enough damage to it to in one round to drop both the polymorphed form to zero and the orignal form to zero, or as close to zero as possible so that the enemy would not be able to turn back into its original form (still alive and kicking) and do more damage, or at least not a lot more damage. In retrospect (depending on context) that was probably a mistake. Maybe there is something better to do with enemies after you polymorph them, other than killing both forms (or some additional step to take to keep them from being able to do more damage, before they die).
What are some fun, cute, or strategic things to polymoroh enemies into?
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I'd very much advice any DM against this. The exploit possibilities and bizarre suggestions would be an endless stream 😄 "I heard a story about an intelligent talking and flying wolf with a paralyzing poison stinger. It's also naturally cold resistant and has a hard protective chitin armor" . Not saying it's a slippery slope, but you would experience a barrage of questions about whether a certain kind of imaginary beast is ok.
So I'd say existing animals only. There can be exotic beasts of course, but the DM decides what they are like in their world.
You could still ask "is there an intelligent frog-like animal that I know enough about" .
Finland GMT/UTC +2
I suppose you'd have to know enough to tell which ones are real and which ones are just tales and how accurate the lore is. I'd call for a nature roll.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
I'd say the spell fails. But I like being upfront and fair as DM. So I typically would let them know at least the odds before they attempt.
Basically it all boils down to one thing to consider. How powerful should a level 4 spell be?
There is a level 8 spell called Animal Shapes that among other things allows them to retain their mental scores. And it has a cr limitation. Wild shape too. Polymorph doesn't, so I think the mental stat bit is for a reason.
If you can ignore this with having lots of intelligent beast options, then it quickly becomes too strong for lvl 4 imo.
But like I said, this is my intepretation of RAI. Each DM makes their own decision. 🙂
Finland GMT/UTC +2
If a player is low on hp turning them into giant ape is a good use especially if they are a Frontline fighter.
I think it's surprisingly powerful, even the frog. If it's both intelligent and able to talk. Even just intelligent. Because it's an absolutely normal animal. Basically if it's normal to have frogs in the area, you could just hop about anywhere you like without raising almost any suspicion AND talk about your infiltration plan meanwhile. This is very much a druid specialty. And even druids cannot talk in wild shape, so communication is very limited.
But more so, it's the concept in general that raises balance concerns for me.
I could probably allow this as a kind of special, character specific feature and limit it to this particular frog if the player would enjoy this theme. But not other animals. I would rule that intelligent and especially talking animals are extremely rare and elusive, so the only one to exist based on a player request is just this special frog and otherwise beasts must exist per my beastiary. 🙂
But this is just my opinion.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
I prefer killer whale to tortoise as they have no movement at all (assuming you are on land)
What are some recomendations for beasts to turn an enemy into? I liked the suggestion of the giant tortle because it had a lot of hit points and so that its allies then couldn't then attack it to drop its HP to zero, in order to break the spell. I had always tried to select beasts with a small number of hit points because, before the spell ends, i would hope to have the party do enough damage to it to in one round to drop both the polymorphed form to zero and the orignal form to zero, or as close to zero as possible so that the enemy would not be able to turn back into its original form (still alive and kicking) and do more damage, or at least not a lot more damage. In retrospect (depending on context) that was probably a mistake. Maybe there is something better to do with enemies after you polymorph them, other than killing both forms (or some additional step to take to keep them from being able to do more damage, before they die).
What are some fun, cute, or strategic things to polymoroh enemies into?