I know that some out there have come up with Wild West Character builds and story lines, but could D&D ever officially take this on with a book that would go into this with the setup and an adventure? I had the idea of taking Lost Mines of Phandelver and making it a western. Would anyone be able to point me to materials to accomplish this.
Eberron: Rising from the Last War talks about the realm of Q'barra, a lawless frontier rich with secret treasures, dangerous and suspicious natives, and lost history rife for takes on the Western. Admittedly it is a jungle area, which my brain has a lot of trouble associating with "Western". As it turns out I need deserts and badlands in my Westerns, but fortunately there's still options there (and frankly it's not beyond the realm of possibility to just...change Q'barra into a more arid region if you need to). Even if you don't use the material as written, there's some ideas there you might be able to pilfer from.
1: The answers don't match the question. If I think D&D can be played as a Western, but don't have interest in it myself, or don't think it would work as a Western, but I am interested in seeing people attempt it, which answer is correct?
2: Backing u Panta, what do you mean by Western? You'll get much better answers with a more detailed definition. Gunslingers? Gritty anti-heroes on horses? Extra set budget spent on tumbleweed? A GM who watches Akira Kurosawa films every weekend?
I know that some out there have come up with Wild West Character builds and story lines, but could D&D ever officially take this on with a book that would go into this with the setup and an adventure? I had the idea of taking Lost Mines of Phandelver and making it a western. Would anyone be able to point me to materials to accomplish this.
What you probably want it Deadlands instead of D&D 5E. I played on release back in the late 90's, its tight and its a Western Steampunk RPG set in the American West. Looking at the wiki there is a D20 version that would probably be recognizable to you.
If we're dropping "Wild West" games, I'm going to mention Haunted West. It's mechanics are different from 5e, but I think work a lot better for tropes usually thought of as "Western".
It's a big book, ~800 pages, though the system is relatively simple, the bulk is actually lore. You can play the game on a spectrum from "realistic" west, and there's a lot of background into the reality of life in the various eras of "the old west" to "weird west" which brings in options for steampunk, aliens, various horror tropes, etc. There's supplements in the pipeline, but really I don't see anyone interested in running any variety of a "Wild West" game needing more than this book. Character generation is done via life path tied to various historical periods (i.e., you'll wind up with more combat type skills if your character made it through the Civil War).
D&D Wild West, I mean, there's gun rules and what not, but like chases on horseback ... look at the chase rules in the DMG and the firearms rules ... do they seem adequate to you? I don't think D&D has enough significantly developed attention to the systems that would support key tropes in a "Wild West" game. I'm sure others think differently, I'm just very much in the "D&D does D&D really well and not much else" camp.
In a perfect world, you'd try Wild West in D&D for a few sessions and then test drive a game actually designed around Wild West themes and trope reflecting mechanics, and decide from there.
I do agree the survey is misleading or not asking the question correctly. I'm agnostic about whether Wild West "can be done" but I have no interest in testing it further than the few thoughts I've provided.
I consider Western more a style of story, one that actually predates the actual Western genre. Many gunslinger tales were adapted from old samurai movies and stories, and in that vein, you could totally do those types of narratives in DnD.
If you mean to invoke the aesthetic stylings of a Western-- badlands, revolvers, wide brimmed hats, serapes, I think that can also be done but requires more work on the part of the DM to include gunfighting while preserving tension.
I'm going to be starting a "Western" themed campaign fairly soon, although from what the DM has said I think it might be more Oregon Trail-y than anything
As others have said, the mechanics of D&D don't really fit a six guns and saloons setting, but at the very least you can have fun adapting Western tropes to character creation. For instance, I have in mind a dragonborn druid (using the Circle of the Blighted subclass from the new CR book) with a Walter Brennan/Gabby Johnson from Blazing Saddles/town drunk kind of vibe
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Edgeent published in Spanish language "Steam States" but it was not translated into English.
About the firearms, these can break the power balance, because then the classes with builds too focused to melee combat and without ranged attacks aren't so useful.
About the part of "crunch", maybe "Iron Kingdoms" could be interested, but this is more focused into the steampunk.
Back in 1e and 2e there was a setting called Red Steel, which was set on a western continent of Mystara. It was essentially the southern half of the US during the Spanish colonial era, so the early wild west before revolvers replaced flintlocks. Seeing as how D&D has already done western in the past, I see no reason they couldn’t do it again.
Could it be done? Yes. However, there are some serious problems to deal with. The most important of which are speed/initiative and AC. Since essentially all combat is missile and QuickDraw is king the builds you get are pretty much all going to have the same things in them - alert, CBE, sharpshooter, high Dex, warcaster, spell sniper, etc weapon choice is also going to be pretty similar- pistol, rifle, maybe dagger (wand and staff for mages). The humanoid tribes ( replacing the native Americans) armed with bow, club, dagger and some firearms. B cause of the use of firearms AC basically disappears- at most some folks might be wearing leather and you might have the occasional NPC with a piece of boiler plate hidden Nader a serape or coat, etc. you also have the problem that the dominant trope is that of the lone gunman saving the day - not much place for parties ( yes you have the magnificent 7 but really, for each group story you have dozens to scores of lone gunman tales) which further makes it hard to fit into a group dynamic.
The 1ed DMG had a couple of pages on crossing AD&D with gamma world and Boot Hill. Boot Hill was one of my groups favorite games to introduce potential new players to RPG’s. It’s available from drive through rpg and well worth a read. I prefer 1st Ed but I think 3rd Ed would be easier to homebrew.
It depends on what you mean by a Western. Some of the themes and narrative tropes work fine, usually the larger-scope ones: the barren frontier region, law being a thing that barely exists, strife between the native population and the people who are pushing them off their land, etc.
Others, particularly the ones revolving around guns, not really. Consider the classic showdown. In D&D, it just doesn't work. Combat in Westerns is brief and deadly, and that's not D&D's thing. Also, a lot of the Western tropes are built around a single protagonist, which also doesn't work in D&D's paradigm, though there's still plenty to draw from there.
But overall, you can make it work. Westerns have been done in other genres. (Immediately coming to mind: Samurai (IIRC Kurosawa both borrowed from westerns and was borrowed from in turn) and SF (Star Trek's original elevator pitch was basically "Wagon Train in space"), The Mandalorian is a Western, Cowboy Bebop probably is.) There's no reason it can't be done in heroic fantasy.
I think Lost Mine of Phandelver could easily be adapted to a western, maybe even consider it like a western already. The players could come in to assist someone establish a position as the new sheriff to help eliminate the redbrands. Meanwhile doing the side quests to help the new sheriff focus on the town while the party takes care of outside threats. Then the finale would be kicking the redbrands out and establishing law & order, perhaps the characters could establish the new justice system too.
As people said above there was (is) a product called Boot Hill which is a wild west product (I have the AD&D version somewhere, I think or at least had). And as people have posted above there were some differences such as the quick draw gun fight and firearms from AD&D. But the thing was for us was doing stuff, the wild west sounded fun and was for a short time but after playing for a few games the game went on the shelf and we switched back to fantasy. Why? Well think of all of the adventures you can do in fantasy and then think of the wild west adventures with humans and different cultures in the wild west. I agree age played could play a big factor in what you look for in a game but for us then and me now just a wild west game is low on my RP list and a wild west RP game might be fun for a few months between fantasy games or as a break but is not something long term. But again your group may be different.
I have seen people ask about this in the past here and on other forums but in general I have thought they were publishers looking for things to publish or advertise their game vs a huge ground swell of people saying "I need this to RP! Get me some product". Just for your information I have also seen Spelljammer mentioned as wanting to be reprinted since around 2000 by some people and claiming they will have not problems fixing the issues from the 1st edition (that I own).
There is also Top Secret a spy game that was an AD&D spin off and we used it with or instead of James Bond RPG for a time.
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I know that some out there have come up with Wild West Character builds and story lines, but could D&D ever officially take this on with a book that would go into this with the setup and an adventure? I had the idea of taking Lost Mines of Phandelver and making it a western. Would anyone be able to point me to materials to accomplish this.
Eberron: Rising from the Last War talks about the realm of Q'barra, a lawless frontier rich with secret treasures, dangerous and suspicious natives, and lost history rife for takes on the Western. Admittedly it is a jungle area, which my brain has a lot of trouble associating with "Western". As it turns out I need deserts and badlands in my Westerns, but fortunately there's still options there (and frankly it's not beyond the realm of possibility to just...change Q'barra into a more arid region if you need to). Even if you don't use the material as written, there's some ideas there you might be able to pilfer from.
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What makes something a Western? Other than the guns and choice of enemies, I'm not sure how 'wild west' differs from any other genre.
1: The answers don't match the question. If I think D&D can be played as a Western, but don't have interest in it myself, or don't think it would work as a Western, but I am interested in seeing people attempt it, which answer is correct?
2: Backing u Panta, what do you mean by Western? You'll get much better answers with a more detailed definition. Gunslingers? Gritty anti-heroes on horses? Extra set budget spent on tumbleweed? A GM who watches Akira Kurosawa films every weekend?
What you probably want it Deadlands instead of D&D 5E. I played on release back in the late 90's, its tight and its a Western Steampunk RPG set in the American West. Looking at the wiki there is a D20 version that would probably be recognizable to you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlands
If we're dropping "Wild West" games, I'm going to mention Haunted West. It's mechanics are different from 5e, but I think work a lot better for tropes usually thought of as "Western".
http://www.darkerhuestudios.com/shop/5jzf1ll837tdgeyhcb1csp03d6qpsu
It's a big book, ~800 pages, though the system is relatively simple, the bulk is actually lore. You can play the game on a spectrum from "realistic" west, and there's a lot of background into the reality of life in the various eras of "the old west" to "weird west" which brings in options for steampunk, aliens, various horror tropes, etc. There's supplements in the pipeline, but really I don't see anyone interested in running any variety of a "Wild West" game needing more than this book. Character generation is done via life path tied to various historical periods (i.e., you'll wind up with more combat type skills if your character made it through the Civil War).
D&D Wild West, I mean, there's gun rules and what not, but like chases on horseback ... look at the chase rules in the DMG and the firearms rules ... do they seem adequate to you? I don't think D&D has enough significantly developed attention to the systems that would support key tropes in a "Wild West" game. I'm sure others think differently, I'm just very much in the "D&D does D&D really well and not much else" camp.
In a perfect world, you'd try Wild West in D&D for a few sessions and then test drive a game actually designed around Wild West themes and trope reflecting mechanics, and decide from there.
I do agree the survey is misleading or not asking the question correctly. I'm agnostic about whether Wild West "can be done" but I have no interest in testing it further than the few thoughts I've provided.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I consider Western more a style of story, one that actually predates the actual Western genre. Many gunslinger tales were adapted from old samurai movies and stories, and in that vein, you could totally do those types of narratives in DnD.
If you mean to invoke the aesthetic stylings of a Western-- badlands, revolvers, wide brimmed hats, serapes, I think that can also be done but requires more work on the part of the DM to include gunfighting while preserving tension.
I'm going to be starting a "Western" themed campaign fairly soon, although from what the DM has said I think it might be more Oregon Trail-y than anything
As others have said, the mechanics of D&D don't really fit a six guns and saloons setting, but at the very least you can have fun adapting Western tropes to character creation. For instance, I have in mind a dragonborn druid (using the Circle of the Blighted subclass from the new CR book) with a Walter Brennan/Gabby Johnson from Blazing Saddles/town drunk kind of vibe
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Far West + Fantasy = Weird West.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeirdWest
Edgeent published in Spanish language "Steam States" but it was not translated into English.
About the firearms, these can break the power balance, because then the classes with builds too focused to melee combat and without ranged attacks aren't so useful.
About the part of "crunch", maybe "Iron Kingdoms" could be interested, but this is more focused into the steampunk.
Back in 1e and 2e there was a setting called Red Steel, which was set on a western continent of Mystara. It was essentially the southern half of the US during the Spanish colonial era, so the early wild west before revolvers replaced flintlocks. Seeing as how D&D has already done western in the past, I see no reason they couldn’t do it again.
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Could it be done? Yes. However, there are some serious problems to deal with. The most important of which are speed/initiative and AC. Since essentially all combat is missile and QuickDraw is king the builds you get are pretty much all going to have the same things in them - alert, CBE, sharpshooter, high Dex, warcaster, spell sniper, etc weapon choice is also going to be pretty similar- pistol, rifle, maybe dagger (wand and staff for mages). The humanoid tribes ( replacing the native Americans) armed with bow, club, dagger and some firearms. B cause of the use of firearms AC basically disappears- at most some folks might be wearing leather and you might have the occasional NPC with a piece of boiler plate hidden Nader a serape or coat, etc.
you also have the problem that the dominant trope is that of the lone gunman saving the day - not much place for parties ( yes you have the magnificent 7 but really, for each group story you have dozens to scores of lone gunman tales) which further makes it hard to fit into a group dynamic.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
The 1ed DMG had a couple of pages on crossing AD&D with gamma world and Boot Hill. Boot Hill was one of my groups favorite games to introduce potential new players to RPG’s. It’s available from drive through rpg and well worth a read. I prefer 1st Ed but I think 3rd Ed would be easier to homebrew.
It depends on what you mean by a Western. Some of the themes and narrative tropes work fine, usually the larger-scope ones: the barren frontier region, law being a thing that barely exists, strife between the native population and the people who are pushing them off their land, etc.
Others, particularly the ones revolving around guns, not really. Consider the classic showdown. In D&D, it just doesn't work. Combat in Westerns is brief and deadly, and that's not D&D's thing. Also, a lot of the Western tropes are built around a single protagonist, which also doesn't work in D&D's paradigm, though there's still plenty to draw from there.
But overall, you can make it work. Westerns have been done in other genres. (Immediately coming to mind: Samurai (IIRC Kurosawa both borrowed from westerns and was borrowed from in turn) and SF (Star Trek's original elevator pitch was basically "Wagon Train in space"), The Mandalorian is a Western, Cowboy Bebop probably is.) There's no reason it can't be done in heroic fantasy.
I think Lost Mine of Phandelver could easily be adapted to a western, maybe even consider it like a western already. The players could come in to assist someone establish a position as the new sheriff to help eliminate the redbrands. Meanwhile doing the side quests to help the new sheriff focus on the town while the party takes care of outside threats. Then the finale would be kicking the redbrands out and establishing law & order, perhaps the characters could establish the new justice system too.
As people said above there was (is) a product called Boot Hill which is a wild west product (I have the AD&D version somewhere, I think or at least had). And as people have posted above there were some differences such as the quick draw gun fight and firearms from AD&D. But the thing was for us was doing stuff, the wild west sounded fun and was for a short time but after playing for a few games the game went on the shelf and we switched back to fantasy. Why? Well think of all of the adventures you can do in fantasy and then think of the wild west adventures with humans and different cultures in the wild west. I agree age played could play a big factor in what you look for in a game but for us then and me now just a wild west game is low on my RP list and a wild west RP game might be fun for a few months between fantasy games or as a break but is not something long term. But again your group may be different.
I have seen people ask about this in the past here and on other forums but in general I have thought they were publishers looking for things to publish or advertise their game vs a huge ground swell of people saying "I need this to RP! Get me some product". Just for your information I have also seen Spelljammer mentioned as wanting to be reprinted since around 2000 by some people and claiming they will have not problems fixing the issues from the 1st edition (that I own).
There is also Top Secret a spy game that was an AD&D spin off and we used it with or instead of James Bond RPG for a time.