Has no one else realize that “OneDnD” has nothing to do with content - it means one source for DnD - they are trying to make it a walled garden where they and only they can provide content. It’s all about micro transactions in their planned VTT here on DnDBeyond.
As a GM, I won’t let my table use this site (now and going forward). They can’t trap us in their walls unless we let them.
I've already seen/read the word of over half a dozen third-party creators who are planning, regardless of what the final OGL looks like, to completely divorce their work from not only One D&D in future, but D&D generally now. .
Of course they are! Why on earth would they stick around when the company has proven to them that they are willing to consider pulling the rug out from under them at any second?
Even if Wizards came out right now and said 'Sorry guys, we'll take it all back, nevermind, we were wrong!' there's no more security or stability in the IP anymore - all of these mid level businesses that have a couple of employees because they make gaming content are going to be VERY AWARE now that at ANY MOMENT the axe could come crashing down and chop their heads off - a thing that previously wasn't even considered because they had a literal contract from the King saying 'We promise to never ever ever even touch the axe, let alone chop any heads.'
Wizards has fundamentally destroyed it's own game and they're not even aware of it. I make art for a living, I've made a few D&D things even, but I'm not going to be investing any more of my time or effort into D&D stuff because they may decide to start being just as greedy and insane as all the other IP holders and acting like any and all fan generated content is a threat to their money making potential (even though statistically Marvel and DC comics actually made more money back when they were more relaxed about this stuff and consciously allowed fanworks to exist in convention spaces, but keep tightening the grip I'm sure it'll work out great!) There's no point in making content for a game, or trusting your livelihood to it, if at any moment it could all crumble on the whim of a greedy corporation. Most of us already have enough of that in our lives, we don't need to go find it in our hobbies as well.
Even if WotC walks back the OGL 1.1, I'm going to be taking a long hard look at Black Flag from Kobold Press and other open systems where its creators value the community. I won't be making any more purchases from WotC, and I'll have my DM cancel their DND Beyond subscription.
This is heartbreaking. I love DND, and I love most of the changes proposed in OneDND, but I will not give my free time and passion to what's effectively a Hasbro dragon hoarding a mountain of gold.
This community has some of the most passionate and creative people I know. Picking a new shepherd who values the community and sees themselves as part of the community instead of lording over it will be a good thing long-term for TTRPGs.
How can I point this out even more simplistically...
Third party support is what helps a system succeed. They allow a system to have more content than a single creator ever could produce alone, AND it allow said content to target audiences that the single creator would never think to or attempt to. There is no way that WOTC alone could equal the amount of content that third party publishers put out. So it was with gaming in the 5th and 6th generations, so it is now in TTRPGs: the third parties are the king-makers, no king rules alone. By making their future uncertain, WOTC has already forced many of these small companies with narrow profit margins to hedge their bets elsewhere. Even if they retreat from the land-grab that OGL 1.1 represents... which they probably won't. With them gone, and a number are already gone; the pool of content for One D&D/6e has already shrunk.
Updating the OGL will cause some ill-will towards WotC, yes. Will it be enough to sink them, especially if they back off the worst provisions in the leaked draft, I highly doubt that.
In other words, in your own console analogy, they are far closer to Nintendo than Sega - i.e. still thriving despite losing a bunch of market share to the newcomer. (A newcomer which doesn't even exist yet, or if it does, is still largely under the radar. And no, it ain't Paizo.)
I'm wondering if they're eventually going to attempt to 'force' people onto DnDone by gradually removing all the ******** from DnD Beyond. People would still have access to all their 5e sources on here, but they would no longer be compatible with things like the character creator and encounter builder.
(and the OneDnD tools and rules would all be monthly subscription based to even access)
How can I point this out even more simplistically...
Third party support is what helps a system succeed. They allow a system to have more content than a single creator ever could produce alone, AND it allow said content to target audiences that the single creator would never think to or attempt to. There is no way that WOTC alone could equal the amount of content that third party publishers put out. So it was with gaming in the 5th and 6th generations, so it is now in TTRPGs: the third parties are the king-makers, no king rules alone. By making their future uncertain, WOTC has already forced many of these small companies with narrow profit margins to hedge their bets elsewhere. Even if they retreat from the land-grab that OGL 1.1 represents... which they probably won't. With them gone, and a number are already gone; the pool of content for One D&D/6e has already shrunk.
Updating the OGL will cause some ill-will towards WotC, yes. Will it be enough to sink them, especially if they back off the worst provisions in the leaked draft, I highly doubt that.
In other words, in your own console analogy, they are far closer to Nintendo than Sega - i.e. still thriving despite losing a bunch of market share to the newcomer. (A newcomer which doesn't even exist yet, or if it does, is still largely under the radar. And no, it ain't Paizo.)
You're right in this definitely won't kill D&D. Though, the damage will be deep and the most hardcore TTRPGers will resent WotC and most hardcore TTRPGers also happen to be both content creators and DMs of the TTRPG world.
The causal fans will still want to and like to play D&D, but it might become not just harder to find a game, but harder to find fresh new content for the game given pretty much any and all content providers will be a part of the D&D mass exodus.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
Though this definitely won't sink DnD, the timing is such that it will do more damage than it otherwise would have.
If they'd tried pulling this off mid-life 5e, people would have had nowhere to go except stick with 5e. With a small group of people who don't mind additional crunch moving to pathfinder. Any competing systems springing up would have had to compete with 5e at its best.
But as it is, the playerbase is already going to be splitting between the no longer supported 5e, and the new one dnd which may or may not be popular. And then you have pathfinder and the new competing systems appearing at the same time just to split things apart even more.
5e and DnDone are going to be each others worst enemies here when combined with the OGL mess.
Though this definitely won't sink DnD, the timing is such that it will do more damage than it otherwise would have.
If they'd tried pulling this off mid-life 5e, people would have had nowhere to go except stick with 5e. With a small group of people who don't mind additional crunch moving to pathfinder. Any competing systems springing up would have had to compete with 5e at its best.
But as it is, the playerbase is already going to be splitting between the no longer supported 5e, and the new one dnd which may or may not be popular. And then you have pathfinder and the new competing systems appearing at the same time just to split things apart even more.
5e and DnDone are going to be each others worst enemies here when combined with the OGL mess.
Assuming this isn't much ado about nothing (that is, I'm of the camp with the awareness that contracts do in fact circulate with draft terms as part of negotiations and I could see how this mess may be a result of an excited journalist being reiterated and an echo chamber and could actually end with some community having egg on their face and everyone pointing fingers at a journo who can hype game culture but is not really qualified to report on legal affairs), the irony of this is 1.1 was clearly devised for D&D to assert control over a community because it precisely feared the sort of edition change abandonment they've largely triggered. It was a foolish move, and likely does come down to executives wanting widget moves numbers and a false notion that after market parts and jury rigging were somehow competitive threats as opposed to integral infrastructure that needed to be embraced (or maybe they did, but they clearly don't know how to hug).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Updating the OGL will cause some ill-will towards WotC, yes. Will it be enough to sink them, especially if they back off the worst provisions in the leaked draft, I highly doubt that.
In other words, in your own console analogy, they are far closer to Nintendo than Sega - i.e. still thriving despite losing a bunch of market share to the newcomer. (A newcomer which doesn't even exist yet, or if it does, is still largely under the radar. And no, it ain't Paizo.)
You're right in this definitely won't kill D&D. Though, the damage will be deep and the most hardcore TTRPGers will resent WotC and most hardcore TTRPGers also happen to be both content creators and DMs of the TTRPG world.
The causal fans will still want to and like to play D&D, but it might become not just harder to find a game, but harder to find fresh new content for the game given pretty much any and all content providers will be a part of the D&D mass exodus.
I think the size of any "exodus" will depend on the actual 1.1 license terms. The leak is... pretty bad, at least parts of it are, but it's almost certain to get changed now after all this outrage.
With that said, I think the market coalescing somewhat around a truly Open competitor could really only be a good thing. I personally skipped 4e and played Pathfinder instead, as did many others, and that was a big part of what led them to take a step back and innovate so strongly for 5e.
Welllllll, what does it matter, if what you’re saying is true, why should we be worried that third party creators are leaving the one dnd operation? I don’t think that that spells doom for dungeons and dragons in general.
Look at spelljammer. As written from Wotc. It is not enough information and 3rd party companies are stepping up to add actual usesble content
Has no one else realize that “OneDnD” has nothing to do with content - it means one source for DnD - they are trying to make it a walled garden where they and only they can provide content. It’s all about micro transactions in their planned VTT here on DnDBeyond.
As a GM, I won’t let my table use this site (now and going forward). They can’t trap us in their walls unless we let them.
Telling your players "don't use this helpful website, or else I won't run the game" is kind of a shitty thing to do. Please don't deliberately restrict what your players use for their characters. It would be like if I told my party "I won't run the game unless you use digital character sheets and dice".
Has no one else realize that “OneDnD” has nothing to do with content - it means one source for DnD - they are trying to make it a walled garden where they and only they can provide content. It’s all about micro transactions in their planned VTT here on DnDBeyond.
As a GM, I won’t let my table use this site (now and going forward). They can’t trap us in their walls unless we let them.
Telling your players "don't use this helpful website, or else I won't run the game" is kind of a shitty thing to do. Please don't deliberately restrict what your players use for their characters. It would be like if I told my party "I won't run the game unless you use digital character sheets and dice".
Yeah, it's certainly your right to not support WotC if you don't want to, but punishing your players for using a platform they might find valuable or accessible is just petty.
I mean, I'd argue that continuing to give WotC the benefit of the doubt when they are trying to treat their partners like competitors is kind of a shitty thing to do and yet here we are...
I should probably clarify, I can’t control if my players want to use the site on their own time - nor would I even consider suggesting it.
At the table, however, using the digital character tools from DnDBeyond are out - at least until 1.1 is a bad dream.
I already had the physical dice rule in place (which was very well received) and when I proposed this addition for physical character sheets only - no one objected.
I should probably clarify, I can’t control if my players want to use the site on their own time - nor would I even consider suggesting it.
At the table, however, using the digital character tools from DnDBeyond are out - at least until 1.1 is a bad dream.
I already had the physical dice rule in place (which was very well received) and when I proposed this addition for physical character sheets only - no one objected.
Still doesn't mean it isn't a shitty thing to do. DDB's tools (and digital dice) have literally nothing to do with the OGL, and boycotting WotC by disallowing them in your games serves literally no function.
I should probably clarify, I can’t control if my players want to use the site on their own time - nor would I even consider suggesting it.
At the table, however, using the digital character tools from DnDBeyond are out - at least until 1.1 is a bad dream.
I already had the physical dice rule in place (which was very well received) and when I proposed this addition for physical character sheets only - no one objected.
At the table, however, using the digital character tools from DnDBeyond are out - at least until 1.1 is a bad dream.
Disliking and boycotting a product or website is fine. However, forcing everyone you play with to do the same is iffy to say the least, and it honestly disturbs me just to the see that this is an idea people are proposing + enforcing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
Actually banning the used of any digital character sheet and dice role is a good policy.
Consider this. Any digital content can be changed and adjusted instantly at the will of the parent company(programers0. Thus over time the digital system could deviate from the hand held physical book. And if the physical book is what the DM uses........ His rule his table. The player may never even know that something is changing but one day a few of his numbers change and a few sessions later someone notices. Or the player has a few supplement books checked and all of a sudden has a few extra spells no one even knew about.
This is why I always print out my character sheet each level and add any notes I need.
And if the internet ever goes down or the power goes out I can still play by candle light. Just like we all used to do.
People complain the the old system was too hard for new players, How many or those new players can creat a character with no help from just the books? We all used to do exactly that. Were we smarter than new players today or was the system actually easier?
we know
Anyone else see that absolutely out of touch post on the D&D Beyond social media profiles? They know we have "questions"? It's so far past questions.
questions, insults, potato potato....
Of course they are! Why on earth would they stick around when the company has proven to them that they are willing to consider pulling the rug out from under them at any second?
Even if Wizards came out right now and said 'Sorry guys, we'll take it all back, nevermind, we were wrong!' there's no more security or stability in the IP anymore - all of these mid level businesses that have a couple of employees because they make gaming content are going to be VERY AWARE now that at ANY MOMENT the axe could come crashing down and chop their heads off - a thing that previously wasn't even considered because they had a literal contract from the King saying 'We promise to never ever ever even touch the axe, let alone chop any heads.'
Wizards has fundamentally destroyed it's own game and they're not even aware of it. I make art for a living, I've made a few D&D things even, but I'm not going to be investing any more of my time or effort into D&D stuff because they may decide to start being just as greedy and insane as all the other IP holders and acting like any and all fan generated content is a threat to their money making potential (even though statistically Marvel and DC comics actually made more money back when they were more relaxed about this stuff and consciously allowed fanworks to exist in convention spaces, but keep tightening the grip I'm sure it'll work out great!) There's no point in making content for a game, or trusting your livelihood to it, if at any moment it could all crumble on the whim of a greedy corporation. Most of us already have enough of that in our lives, we don't need to go find it in our hobbies as well.
Even if WotC walks back the OGL 1.1, I'm going to be taking a long hard look at Black Flag from Kobold Press and other open systems where its creators value the community. I won't be making any more purchases from WotC, and I'll have my DM cancel their DND Beyond subscription.
This is heartbreaking. I love DND, and I love most of the changes proposed in OneDND, but I will not give my free time and passion to what's effectively a Hasbro dragon hoarding a mountain of gold.
This community has some of the most passionate and creative people I know. Picking a new shepherd who values the community and sees themselves as part of the community instead of lording over it will be a good thing long-term for TTRPGs.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
Cancelled Master Tier Subscription because of OGL 1.1
Add your name to the #OpenDnD Letter to Wotc/Hasbro: https://www.opendnd.games/
Updating the OGL will cause some ill-will towards WotC, yes. Will it be enough to sink them, especially if they back off the worst provisions in the leaked draft, I highly doubt that.
In other words, in your own console analogy, they are far closer to Nintendo than Sega - i.e. still thriving despite losing a bunch of market share to the newcomer. (A newcomer which doesn't even exist yet, or if it does, is still largely under the radar. And no, it ain't Paizo.)
That's speculation, friend
[REDACTED]
You're right in this definitely won't kill D&D. Though, the damage will be deep and the most hardcore TTRPGers will resent WotC and most hardcore TTRPGers also happen to be both content creators and DMs of the TTRPG world.
The causal fans will still want to and like to play D&D, but it might become not just harder to find a game, but harder to find fresh new content for the game given pretty much any and all content providers will be a part of the D&D mass exodus.
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
Though this definitely won't sink DnD, the timing is such that it will do more damage than it otherwise would have.
If they'd tried pulling this off mid-life 5e, people would have had nowhere to go except stick with 5e. With a small group of people who don't mind additional crunch moving to pathfinder. Any competing systems springing up would have had to compete with 5e at its best.
But as it is, the playerbase is already going to be splitting between the no longer supported 5e, and the new one dnd which may or may not be popular. And then you have pathfinder and the new competing systems appearing at the same time just to split things apart even more.
5e and DnDone are going to be each others worst enemies here when combined with the OGL mess.
Assuming this isn't much ado about nothing (that is, I'm of the camp with the awareness that contracts do in fact circulate with draft terms as part of negotiations and I could see how this mess may be a result of an excited journalist being reiterated and an echo chamber and could actually end with some community having egg on their face and everyone pointing fingers at a journo who can hype game culture but is not really qualified to report on legal affairs), the irony of this is 1.1 was clearly devised for D&D to assert control over a community because it precisely feared the sort of edition change abandonment they've largely triggered. It was a foolish move, and likely does come down to executives wanting widget moves numbers and a false notion that after market parts and jury rigging were somehow competitive threats as opposed to integral infrastructure that needed to be embraced (or maybe they did, but they clearly don't know how to hug).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I think the size of any "exodus" will depend on the actual 1.1 license terms. The leak is... pretty bad, at least parts of it are, but it's almost certain to get changed now after all this outrage.
With that said, I think the market coalescing somewhat around a truly Open competitor could really only be a good thing. I personally skipped 4e and played Pathfinder instead, as did many others, and that was a big part of what led them to take a step back and innovate so strongly for 5e.
Look at spelljammer. As written from Wotc. It is not enough information and 3rd party companies are stepping up to add actual usesble content
Telling your players "don't use this helpful website, or else I won't run the game" is kind of a shitty thing to do. Please don't deliberately restrict what your players use for their characters. It would be like if I told my party "I won't run the game unless you use digital character sheets and dice".
[REDACTED]
Yeah, it's certainly your right to not support WotC if you don't want to, but punishing your players for using a platform they might find valuable or accessible is just petty.
I mean, I'd argue that continuing to give WotC the benefit of the doubt when they are trying to treat their partners like competitors is kind of a shitty thing to do and yet here we are...
I should probably clarify, I can’t control if my players want to use the site on their own time - nor would I even consider suggesting it.
At the table, however, using the digital character tools from DnDBeyond are out - at least until 1.1 is a bad dream.
I already had the physical dice rule in place (which was very well received) and when I proposed this addition for physical character sheets only - no one objected.
Still doesn't mean it isn't a shitty thing to do. DDB's tools (and digital dice) have literally nothing to do with the OGL, and boycotting WotC by disallowing them in your games serves literally no function.
[REDACTED]
You were perfectly clear. Earlier post stands.
Disliking and boycotting a product or website is fine. However, forcing everyone you play with to do the same is iffy to say the least, and it honestly disturbs me just to the see that this is an idea people are proposing + enforcing.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Actually banning the used of any digital character sheet and dice role is a good policy.
Consider this.
Any digital content can be changed and adjusted instantly at the will of the parent company(programers0. Thus over time the digital system could deviate from the hand held physical book. And if the physical book is what the DM uses........ His rule his table.
The player may never even know that something is changing but one day a few of his numbers change and a few sessions later someone notices.
Or the player has a few supplement books checked and all of a sudden has a few extra spells no one even knew about.
This is why I always print out my character sheet each level and add any notes I need.
And if the internet ever goes down or the power goes out I can still play by candle light. Just like we all used to do.
People complain the the old system was too hard for new players, How many or those new players can creat a character with no help from just the books?
We all used to do exactly that. Were we smarter than new players today or was the system actually easier?