Meh, I understand this is a business like all the rest of my group does. (well i'd say 2 of the 10 I play with even know whats going on and don't care, the rest have ignored/don't care at all). Welcome to capitalism, people will cry about WotC wanting more money from their own IP and then gladly go buy from Amazon who destroy so many small businesses its insane or buy Apple products who take insane amounts of money from their 3rd party app hosting and have working conditions in China that make people jump off buildings. But ya, WotC is the real bad guy in this situation, not those other companies who will always get your money.
Not saying what WotC is doing is completely fine, its just understandable and likely inevitable given the quick rise and popularity of the game.
I never considered canceling, none of these changes affect me directly and the website is still the most intuitive when it comes to creating characters and handling their sheets.
ya I get this. regardless of what is going on with OGL D&D Beyond is very useful and helps to streamline a very good game (D&D). Also none of the changes are going to really affect us as end users too much.
Your view is pure folly. Are you honestly suggesting that when nasty stuff is done to small folk by stronger folk, the view is just as long as it does not affect you directly then it’s cool to carry on and look the other way???
Wow. in any case the “it does not affect me” logic is flawed. Clearly, these actions which are damaging to the community of players and creators WILL affect the end user, in lots of ways that I won’t list here. Numerous recent posts appear throughout these Forums explaining cogently how this is this case.
It would be one thing if you said that you believe the actions taken by Hasbro are justified and correct. If your basis for judgement however is “does it affect me?”, then I suggest you spend some time to re-assess.
I stopped my subscription. Trying to figure out a way to preserve my online book purchases and then I am done after our campaign is over.
Moving to books only and C&C for any campaigns I start in the future most likely. We might try PF, but its a little too crunchy for my playgroup.
Someone wrote a script on reddit that did a rather decent job formatting the books into PDF's you may be able to still find it. Let me know if you need help.
It will affects us as users. A massive reduction in 3rd party creative content.
Do that many people even use 3rd party content? I've played D&D for about 3+ years now with many different groups, at gaming cafes, with randoms, etc and every single game i've played all dictate "only WotC published material can be used". So I really wonder how many people use 3rd party. Not saying many don't, but whats many? Half? Probably not, maybe a 1/3rd of players? And even how much? Homebrew is huge for most DM's as well, so i dunno maybe I just haven't met any groups in my 3 years of playing all over that actually use 3rd party created content.
It will affects us as users. A massive reduction in 3rd party creative content.
Do that many people even use 3rd party content? I've played D&D for about 3+ years now with many different groups, at gaming cafes, with randoms, etc and every single game i've played all dictate "only WotC published material can be used". So I really wonder how many people use 3rd party. Not saying many don't, but whats many? Half? Probably not, maybe a 1/3rd of players? And even how much? Homebrew is huge for most DM's as well, so i dunno maybe I just haven't met any groups in my 3 years of playing all over that actually use 3rd party created content.
It will affects us as users. A massive reduction in 3rd party creative content.
Do that many people even use 3rd party content? I've played D&D for about 3+ years now with many different groups, at gaming cafes, with randoms, etc and every single game i've played all dictate "only WotC published material can be used". So I really wonder how many people use 3rd party. Not saying many don't, but whats many? Half? Probably not, maybe a 1/3rd of players? And even how much? Homebrew is huge for most DM's as well, so i dunno maybe I just haven't met any groups in my 3 years of playing all over that actually use 3rd party created content.
Not Cancelling. What was leaked was a potential revised OGL not a finalized one. I'll wait to see the final one then decide if i'll still support them. People are so quick to cancel anything over even imaginary offences. What does one do when they're done canceling everything? going to be a pretty lonely world.
Just one question, if WOTC isn't lying (which it is) about the leaked OGL being a draft version, then WHY were companies being told to sign a draft document, why did Kickstarter negotiate a reduced royalty payment on a draft document?
The simple fact is you do not get companies to sign a legal binding financial agreement on a draft document!
I cannot cancel my subscription as I never had one in the first place, I just Spelljammer on DND beyond to allow me to convert it to a Fantasy Grounds Savage Worlds campaign more easy than if I had bought the book.
Not Cancelling. What was leaked was a potential revised OGL not a finalized one. I'll wait to see the final one then decide if i'll still support them. People are so quick to cancel anything over even imaginary offences. What does one do when they're done canceling everything? going to be a pretty lonely world.
IF that was true I would agree with you, but it is false. Companies/publishers have quite literally negotiated and signed this OGL already. It was all done under NDA's, but thankfully some companies refused to sign the NDA's and spoke out about it (see Kickstarter negotiations as an example).
This was no draft, it was a real, published document that 3rd party publishers were asked to sign. The reversal that it was a draft came after 40,000 people canceled their subscriptions.
Not saying you should cancel, but you should be grateful for the people that did, because its the ONLY reason the original OGL isn't official.
Cancelled. Had a meeting of my group yesterday explaining why and encouraged them to cancel as well. What WotC has planned affects me directly.
I play entirely through VTT. I've used the majority of them as a player and use Foundry currently. While the focus has been on what this means for 3rd party creators because there are so many of them, the VTT's are the primary target in all this.
I also buy a lot of 3rd party stuff. The primary reason is because I don't have the time or creativity to do everything myself and WotC rarely makes anything that interests me lately. Those guys have brought more to my games than Wizards has.
Wizards has hundreds of millions in profits and 1,500 employees. It could have done things the right way and made better print materials than anyone else and developed a VTT better than anyone else. They have the resources. Nope, gotta smash any and all competition legally instead of the marketplace.
And if you think some of WotC's content has been substandard recently, what do you think it will look like with no competition?
Sorry WotC, you F'ed around and now you're finding out. To paraphrase Ice Cube: You better Chickety Check yourself before you wreck yourself, WotC.
If they didn't, then why would Wizards even be bothering with this? There have to be over a million folks using one or more of the VTT's. And there's enough demand for 3rd party content to sustain companies like Pazio and Goodman and Kobold Press and thousands of smaller companies and individuals.
The owners have tried to kill any and all competition twice over the years. Once in the late-80's under TSR and once with 4e under Wizards. The two were probably the lowest points in the game.
As someone who gave up MTG due to the insanity of WotC leadership I instantly, and affirmatively cancelled my master tier sub here. It's their company, and they're free to do with it how they see fit under the guise of corporate strategy and business plans. I do not want a part of it. TTRPG's are a passion of mine that I will continue to enjoy without the cumbersome worry of supporting a company I feel does not care about it's customers or the integrity of their products produced. That is a blanket statement, and I do not wish to include all employees that work there, but the leadership is definitely to blame.
The beauty of TTRPG's compared to MTG is all the content comes from my brain, I am not reliant on a company to give me the 'next expansion.'
That being said, if I had more faith in the company, their products, strategy, and leadership, I'd have probably been willing to shell out hundreds and thousands of dollars for the hobbies I enjoy. Their loss.
The original leak was a draft. That has been established already. Some try to rewrite history and others tend to believe the claims that it wasn't...but it was.
The majority (not all) of the haters have something to gain by being anti-WotC. Many are loyal to companies that produce competing content, so all the customers they get to leave WotC might potentially come to them. So let's not pretend they are victims. They are business people, just like WotC.
WotC are creators too...trying to protect their work, just like everyone else is. That is getting lost in all of this.
Let's assume that the current version is the final version (which it is not), then if WotC ever tries to backstab the community, then they will face the consequences of alienating everyone completely. That is your check and balance.
There is nothing wrong with playing other systems. Plenty did it before this mess. If you want to move on, then do so. But...the truth is, you don't, regardless of what you voted in this poll. Otherwise, you would not be here raising a fuss.
I spent money here, and I'm not going to choose to have wasted that money.
In the end, everything will be worked out, and partly because of everyone raising a fuss. So I won't say they don't matter. But let's at least be honest about things. This is other companies versus one big company.
I think they forgot that they don't have players because D&D exists, but D&D exists because they have players. Instead of making an interresting, fun and wonderfull tabletop to incite people to use it, their OGL 1.2 draft is suggesting they want to reduce the fun on VTTs application like foundry and Roll20 by preventing them using immersive content like spells animations etc... To me, that sounds really poor and pitiful. Honestly, I will not play their VTT if I am forced to do it. I want to have the choice and pick up the one I feel more confortable with. I will rather play an other game if I can't play D&D on my favorite tools and apps.
Not sure but definitely downgrading. I’ve loved the devs and work done here and the many hours played but what we are being asked to accept is just unacceptable. Even the feedback survey wouldn’t work for me.
Not Cancelling. What was leaked was a potential revised OGL not a finalized one. I'll wait to see the final one then decide if i'll still support them. People are so quick to cancel anything over even imaginary offences. What does one do when they're done canceling everything? going to be a pretty lonely world.
IF that was true I would agree with you, but it is false. Companies/publishers have quite literally negotiated and signed this OGL already. It was all done under NDA's, but thankfully some companies refused to sign the NDA's and spoke out about it (see Kickstarter negotiations as an example).
This was no draft, it was a real, published document that 3rd party publishers were asked to sign. The reversal that it was a draft came after 40,000 people canceled their subscriptions.
Not saying you should cancel, but you should be grateful for the people that did, because its the ONLY reason the original OGL isn't official.
That's the big lie. No one has actually signed the OGL yet. Everyone was negotiating. Even kickstarter did not sign a finalized deal. The negotiated, yes, but did not put anything in writing yet.
That first OGL was sent out as a preliminary gauge to reactions. Yes, this turned out to be much more effort than expected for WotC, but in the end, so long as the final version is good, it doesn't really matter.
To that end, the cancellations are serving a purpose...they are motivating WotC to get it right...but the competition doesn't want things to be made right...because they are reaping hte benefits of people leaving WotC. They are driven by greed as well.
Not sure but definitely downgrading. I’ve loved the devs and work done here and the many hours played but what we are being asked to accept is just unacceptable. Even the feedback survey wouldn’t work for me.
Meh, I understand this is a business like all the rest of my group does. (well i'd say 2 of the 10 I play with even know whats going on and don't care, the rest have ignored/don't care at all). Welcome to capitalism, people will cry about WotC wanting more money from their own IP and then gladly go buy from Amazon who destroy so many small businesses its insane or buy Apple products who take insane amounts of money from their 3rd party app hosting and have working conditions in China that make people jump off buildings. But ya, WotC is the real bad guy in this situation, not those other companies who will always get your money.
Not saying what WotC is doing is completely fine, its just understandable and likely inevitable given the quick rise and popularity of the game.
Your view is pure folly. Are you honestly suggesting that when nasty stuff is done to small folk by stronger folk, the view is just as long as it does not affect you directly then it’s cool to carry on and look the other way???
Wow.
in any case the “it does not affect me” logic is flawed. Clearly, these actions which are damaging to the community of players and creators WILL affect the end user, in lots of ways that I won’t list here. Numerous recent posts appear throughout these Forums explaining cogently how this is this case.
It would be one thing if you said that you believe the actions taken by Hasbro are justified and correct. If your basis for judgement however is “does it affect me?”, then I suggest you spend some time to re-assess.
---
Don't be Lawful Evil
Someone wrote a script on reddit that did a rather decent job formatting the books into PDF's you may be able to still find it. Let me know if you need help.
Do that many people even use 3rd party content? I've played D&D for about 3+ years now with many different groups, at gaming cafes, with randoms, etc and every single game i've played all dictate "only WotC published material can be used". So I really wonder how many people use 3rd party. Not saying many don't, but whats many? Half? Probably not, maybe a 1/3rd of players? And even how much? Homebrew is huge for most DM's as well, so i dunno maybe I just haven't met any groups in my 3 years of playing all over that actually use 3rd party created content.
Clearly they do. Just look at Kobold Press.
Clearly they do. Just look at Kobold Press.
Not Cancelling. What was leaked was a potential revised OGL not a finalized one. I'll wait to see the final one then decide if i'll still support them. People are so quick to cancel anything over even imaginary offences. What does one do when they're done canceling everything? going to be a pretty lonely world.
Just one question, if WOTC isn't lying (which it is) about the leaked OGL being a draft version, then WHY were companies being told to sign a draft document, why did Kickstarter negotiate a reduced royalty payment on a draft document?
The simple fact is you do not get companies to sign a legal binding financial agreement on a draft document!
I cannot cancel my subscription as I never had one in the first place, I just Spelljammer on DND beyond to allow me to convert it to a Fantasy Grounds Savage Worlds campaign more easy than if I had bought the book.
IF that was true I would agree with you, but it is false. Companies/publishers have quite literally negotiated and signed this OGL already. It was all done under NDA's, but thankfully some companies refused to sign the NDA's and spoke out about it (see Kickstarter negotiations as an example).
This was no draft, it was a real, published document that 3rd party publishers were asked to sign. The reversal that it was a draft came after 40,000 people canceled their subscriptions.
Not saying you should cancel, but you should be grateful for the people that did, because its the ONLY reason the original OGL isn't official.
I already cancelled.. but I've been paying annually for a long time and it will be late March before it actually ends the subscription.
Cancelled. Had a meeting of my group yesterday explaining why and encouraged them to cancel as well. What WotC has planned affects me directly.
I play entirely through VTT. I've used the majority of them as a player and use Foundry currently. While the focus has been on what this means for 3rd party creators because there are so many of them, the VTT's are the primary target in all this.
I also buy a lot of 3rd party stuff. The primary reason is because I don't have the time or creativity to do everything myself and WotC rarely makes anything that interests me lately. Those guys have brought more to my games than Wizards has.
Wizards has hundreds of millions in profits and 1,500 employees. It could have done things the right way and made better print materials than anyone else and developed a VTT better than anyone else. They have the resources. Nope, gotta smash any and all competition legally instead of the marketplace.
And if you think some of WotC's content has been substandard recently, what do you think it will look like with no competition?
Sorry WotC, you F'ed around and now you're finding out. To paraphrase Ice Cube: You better Chickety Check yourself before you wreck yourself, WotC.
If they didn't, then why would Wizards even be bothering with this? There have to be over a million folks using one or more of the VTT's. And there's enough demand for 3rd party content to sustain companies like Pazio and Goodman and Kobold Press and thousands of smaller companies and individuals.
The owners have tried to kill any and all competition twice over the years. Once in the late-80's under TSR and once with 4e under Wizards. The two were probably the lowest points in the game.
Yes, all my group will cancel until VTTs are left alone.
Kickstarter never signed. It was negotiated but not finalized.
Check us out on Twitch, YouTube and the DISCORD!
As someone who gave up MTG due to the insanity of WotC leadership I instantly, and affirmatively cancelled my master tier sub here. It's their company, and they're free to do with it how they see fit under the guise of corporate strategy and business plans. I do not want a part of it. TTRPG's are a passion of mine that I will continue to enjoy without the cumbersome worry of supporting a company I feel does not care about it's customers or the integrity of their products produced. That is a blanket statement, and I do not wish to include all employees that work there, but the leadership is definitely to blame.
The beauty of TTRPG's compared to MTG is all the content comes from my brain, I am not reliant on a company to give me the 'next expansion.'
That being said, if I had more faith in the company, their products, strategy, and leadership, I'd have probably been willing to shell out hundreds and thousands of dollars for the hobbies I enjoy. Their loss.
Here are the faults in the anti-WotC crowd:
I spent money here, and I'm not going to choose to have wasted that money.
In the end, everything will be worked out, and partly because of everyone raising a fuss. So I won't say they don't matter. But let's at least be honest about things. This is other companies versus one big company.
Check us out on Twitch, YouTube and the DISCORD!
I think they forgot that they don't have players because D&D exists, but D&D exists because they have players. Instead of making an interresting, fun and wonderfull tabletop to incite people to use it, their OGL 1.2 draft is suggesting they want to reduce the fun on VTTs application like foundry and Roll20 by preventing them using immersive content like spells animations etc... To me, that sounds really poor and pitiful. Honestly, I will not play their VTT if I am forced to do it. I want to have the choice and pick up the one I feel more confortable with. I will rather play an other game if I can't play D&D on my favorite tools and apps.
Not sure but definitely downgrading. I’ve loved the devs and work done here and the many hours played but what we are being asked to accept is just unacceptable. Even the feedback survey wouldn’t work for me.
That's the big lie. No one has actually signed the OGL yet. Everyone was negotiating. Even kickstarter did not sign a finalized deal. The negotiated, yes, but did not put anything in writing yet.
That first OGL was sent out as a preliminary gauge to reactions. Yes, this turned out to be much more effort than expected for WotC, but in the end, so long as the final version is good, it doesn't really matter.
To that end, the cancellations are serving a purpose...they are motivating WotC to get it right...but the competition doesn't want things to be made right...because they are reaping hte benefits of people leaving WotC. They are driven by greed as well.
Check us out on Twitch, YouTube and the DISCORD!
So...you are not going to help them get it right?
Check us out on Twitch, YouTube and the DISCORD!