WOTC presented some content creators with a offensive OGL, that would hurt the content creators and deprive the community of those creative efforts.
The community rallied behind the content creators to show WOTC that we are protective over them.
WOTC promised to change course.
Immediately sensing weakness, the community doubled down on their efforts. Continued to unsub from D&DBeyond, promised to boycott the D&D movie, swore off all D&D products going forward. Not just risking the livihoods of the content creators, but also of innocent WOTC employees.
What are we angry about again? Hurting the content creators? Being deprived of future 3rd party releases for D&D? We're the ones doing that now. Not just that, but jeopardizing the careers of folks whose only crime is working for official D&D, which until last month we all loved....
I get the anger, but it's gone too far. Take a breather. Wait to see what WOTC's next OFFICIAL move is, not anonymous rumors. Let them show us with their actions if we need to continue the pressure.
Being proactive is more effective than being reactive. Saying "ooo we won they're rethinking it gg" is shortsighted and assumes a skirmish was the entire war. This is why you lose at chess.
Being proactive is more effective than being reactive. Saying "ooo we won they're rethinking it gg" is shortsighted and assumes a skirmish was the entire war. This is why you lose at chess.
What does "winning" look like to you in this scenario?
The Hasbro/WotC strategy is 100% to make a statement that only addresses secondary concerns in the 1.1 document, hopefully calming their playerbase so that they'll deescalate and hopefully forget/stop paying attention, so WotC can slip through a 2.0 OGL with the same fundamental issue that 1.1 had - there's no assurance of stability or continuity, as Hasbro/WotC can alter "The Deal" at will.
Calming down and being less angry only serves Hasbro/WotCs goals, and doesn't help the community.
What the community needs is for Hasbro/WotC to back off from "de-authorizing" the previous version of the OGL. If they want to publish 6e under 2.0, whatever, but invalidating their past commitments is unacceptable.
What the community needs is for Hasbro/WotC to back off from "de-authorizing" the previous version of the OGL. If they want to publish 6e under 2.0, whatever, but invalidating their past commitments is unacceptable.
Yeah, if only they said something like: ”Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected.”
Something that would specifically be saying “we are honouring our past commitments under 1.0a.” Oh, wait, they did say that. Exactly that. Word for word. So, if you were actually being legitimate in your criticism, you would be waiting to see how that manifests in 2.0.
What the community needs is for Hasbro/WotC to back off from "de-authorizing" the previous version of the OGL. If they want to publish 6e under 2.0, whatever, but invalidating their past commitments is unacceptable.
Yeah, if only they said something like: ”Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected.”
Something that would specifically be saying “we are honouring our past commitments under 1.0a.” Oh, wait, they did say that. Exactly that. Word for word. So, if you were actually being legitimate in your criticism, you would be waiting to see how that manifests in 2.0.
Their past commitment was that people could use whichever version of the OGL they wanted, so long as it was a legitimately authorized version. Their own FAQ said as much for decades.
Them claiming "content already released..."... in a post full of outright lies, no less!... is not trustworthy.
What the community needs is for Hasbro/WotC to back off from "de-authorizing" the previous version of the OGL. If they want to publish 6e under 2.0, whatever, but invalidating their past commitments is unacceptable.
Yeah, if only they said something like: ”Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected.”
Something that would specifically be saying “we are honouring our past commitments under 1.0a.” Oh, wait, they did say that. Exactly that. Word for word. So, if you were actually being legitimate in your criticism, you would be waiting to see how that manifests in 2.0.
Their past commitment was that people could use whichever version of the OGL they wanted, so long as it was a legitimately authorized version. Their own FAQ said as much for decades.
Them claiming "content already released..."... in a post full of outright lies, no less!... is not trustworthy.
Pretty side we’ve already had this conversation and it was explained to you why you are misunderstanding the underlying promise, so really just responding so no one else will be confused, not to respond to you—lost causes are not really my thing, but there’s others who might be taken in by your bad take, and they are not lost yet.
The promise is very clearly not that you can pick and choose what terms you use - that would be dumb, and even the incompetents who drafted OGL 1.0a’s abjectly poorly written terms would not have done so. That’s also just not how the law is set up - you can’t be bound to just having an offer out there for all time.
What they promised was that you could pick and choose what content covered by any prior OGL you wanted to use—so if 2.0 does not explicitly contain open game content from 1.0, you should still be able to use that 1.0 open game content, even though not explicitly stated you can in 2.0. This is explicitly covered in 1.0’s text.
Thats definitely half of what it says.
"Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License."
If game content was released under OGL 1.0a, I can use 1.0a to distribute content released under 1.0a forever. Any authorized version (defining authorized as "legitimately issued by wizards") OF THE LICENSE.
That's how their own faq said it worked... again... for over a decade.
Being proactive is more effective than being reactive. Saying "ooo we won they're rethinking it gg" is shortsighted and assumes a skirmish was the entire war. This is why you lose at chess.
Wizards of the Coast is the company that makes our books and prints our wonderful game, and protesting their missteps is very different from declaring war and attacking them. The fact that you think of a disagreement as a bloody battle is honestly quite disturbing, to say the least.
This situation may not be over, but it is slowing down and Wizards of the Coast has listened to the fans and promised to change their ways. Sure, you can wait and watch to see how this plays out, but OP has a point that all the people who are refusing to see reason in favor of panicking are causing big problems and need to stop.
WOTC presented some content creators with a offensive OGL, that would hurt the content creators and deprive the community of those creative efforts.
The community rallied behind the content creators to show WOTC that we are protective over them.
WOTC promised to change course.
Immediately sensing weakness, the community doubled down on their efforts. Continued to unsub from D&DBeyond, promised to boycott the D&D movie, swore off all D&D products going forward. Not just risking the livihoods of the content creators, but also of innocent WOTC employees.
What are we angry about again? Hurting the content creators? Being deprived of future 3rd party releases for D&D? We're the ones doing that now. Not just that, but jeopardizing the careers of folks whose only crime is working for official D&D, which until last month we all loved....
I get the anger, but it's gone too far. Take a breather. Wait to see what WOTC's next OFFICIAL move is, not anonymous rumors. Let them show us with their actions if we need to continue the pressure.
No. The pressure will continue. The exodus will continue. The word is spreading through every gaming circle I know.
I know a lot of folks who just needed a nudge to get them to look at other systems. 5e is a mature product with all of the rules bloat and power creep that starts making a new system look desirable. Or, maybe just dust off an old system. Either way, it's notable how the timing of all garbage from Hasbro/WotC comes just when many gamers are tired of the poor quality, "pay for it thrice" blatantly opportunistic attitude displayed by this company. The market leader has become too complacent and they need some competition to shake them up. It's a good thing for everyone. Hope and Light! <cackle>
The pressure for what, exactly? To retract the offending licence? That's been done. A promise for a more friendly one? Well, you've got it, and you're not going to get a better one. The new licence they've promised? That's going to take time, they weren't lying about that. Actively denying them their money won't speed it up.
The only thing boycotting WotC will achieve now is to persuade them that profit isn't as large as they'd like, do they won't invest as much into D&D from now on. That will barely affect the paycheck of Mr Hasbro, but it will affect my game. All you're achieving by pursuing ever harsher boycotts is to screw people like me over. By all means, hold off on your subscription until the new licence comes through and you know it's acceptable, but this ever expanding boycott people are pushing for is only going to hurt people like me, the Devs might get laid off and the game in general. The people responsible for this mess will, at worst, go to a different department and be fine.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The pressure for what, exactly? To retract the offending licence? That's been done. A promise for a more friendly one? Well, you've got it, and you're not going to get a better one. The new licence they've promised? That's going to take time, they weren't lying about that. Actively denying them their money won't speed it up.
The only thing boycotting WotC will achieve now is to persuade them that profit isn't as large as they'd like, do they won't invest as much into D&D from now on. That will barely affect the paycheck of Mr Hasbro, but it will affect my game. All you're achieving by pursuing ever harsher boycotts is to screw people like me over. By all means, hold off on your subscription until the new licence comes through and you know it's acceptable, but this ever expanding boycott people are pushing for is only going to hurt people like me, the Devs might get laid off and the game in general. The people responsible for this mess will, at worst, go to a different department and be fine.
But don't you see, we have to burn it all down, and then they will hand the D&D brand to the fans, somehow, or something.
Being proactive is more effective than being reactive. Saying "ooo we won they're rethinking it gg" is shortsighted and assumes a skirmish was the entire war. This is why you lose at chess.
What does "winning" look like to you in this scenario?
There is no winners in this anymore but what can be salvaged is the question. Wotc made sure nobody can win in this
WOTC presented some content creators with a offensive OGL, that would hurt the content creators and deprive the community of those creative efforts.
The community rallied behind the content creators to show WOTC that we are protective over them.
WOTC promised to change course.
Immediately sensing weakness, the community doubled down on their efforts. Continued to unsub from D&DBeyond, promised to boycott the D&D movie, swore off all D&D products going forward. Not just risking the livihoods of the content creators, but also of innocent WOTC employees.
What are we angry about again? Hurting the content creators? Being deprived of future 3rd party releases for D&D? We're the ones doing that now. Not just that, but jeopardizing the careers of folks whose only crime is working for official D&D, which until last month we all loved....
I get the anger, but it's gone too far. Take a breather. Wait to see what WOTC's next OFFICIAL move is, not anonymous rumors. Let them show us with their actions if we need to continue the pressure.
They have proved to be liers and untrustworthy so there statment in which they lied and patronized and gaslighted repeatedly has zero credibility. Then need to put it in legal binding words. They are hopeing for exactly what your asking so they can push through with there obsurd original 1.1 or as close to it as they can get with minimal damage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Timeline so far...
What are we angry about again? Hurting the content creators? Being deprived of future 3rd party releases for D&D? We're the ones doing that now. Not just that, but jeopardizing the careers of folks whose only crime is working for official D&D, which until last month we all loved....
I get the anger, but it's gone too far. Take a breather. Wait to see what WOTC's next OFFICIAL move is, not anonymous rumors. Let them show us with their actions if we need to continue the pressure.
Being proactive is more effective than being reactive. Saying "ooo we won they're rethinking it gg" is shortsighted and assumes a skirmish was the entire war. This is why you lose at chess.
What does "winning" look like to you in this scenario?
The Hasbro/WotC strategy is 100% to make a statement that only addresses secondary concerns in the 1.1 document, hopefully calming their playerbase so that they'll deescalate and hopefully forget/stop paying attention, so WotC can slip through a 2.0 OGL with the same fundamental issue that 1.1 had - there's no assurance of stability or continuity, as Hasbro/WotC can alter "The Deal" at will.
Calming down and being less angry only serves Hasbro/WotCs goals, and doesn't help the community.
What the community needs is for Hasbro/WotC to back off from "de-authorizing" the previous version of the OGL. If they want to publish 6e under 2.0, whatever, but invalidating their past commitments is unacceptable.
Yeah, if only they said something like: ”Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected.”
Something that would specifically be saying “we are honouring our past commitments under 1.0a.” Oh, wait, they did say that. Exactly that. Word for word. So, if you were actually being legitimate in your criticism, you would be waiting to see how that manifests in 2.0.
Their past commitment was that people could use whichever version of the OGL they wanted, so long as it was a legitimately authorized version. Their own FAQ said as much for decades.
Them claiming "content already released..."... in a post full of outright lies, no less!... is not trustworthy.
And It will be worse day after day until WotC publish the new OGL.
Thats definitely half of what it says.
"Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License."
If game content was released under OGL 1.0a, I can use 1.0a to distribute content released under 1.0a forever. Any authorized version (defining authorized as "legitimately issued by wizards") OF THE LICENSE.
That's how their own faq said it worked... again... for over a decade.
Wizards of the Coast is the company that makes our books and prints our wonderful game, and protesting their missteps is very different from declaring war and attacking them. The fact that you think of a disagreement as a bloody battle is honestly quite disturbing, to say the least.
This situation may not be over, but it is slowing down and Wizards of the Coast has listened to the fans and promised to change their ways. Sure, you can wait and watch to see how this plays out, but OP has a point that all the people who are refusing to see reason in favor of panicking are causing big problems and need to stop.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.No. The pressure will continue. The exodus will continue. The word is spreading through every gaming circle I know.
I know a lot of folks who just needed a nudge to get them to look at other systems. 5e is a mature product with all of the rules bloat and power creep that starts making a new system look desirable. Or, maybe just dust off an old system. Either way, it's notable how the timing of all garbage from Hasbro/WotC comes just when many gamers are tired of the poor quality, "pay for it thrice" blatantly opportunistic attitude displayed by this company. The market leader has become too complacent and they need some competition to shake them up. It's a good thing for everyone.
Hope and Light!
<cackle>
Gygax would not have done this.
Golden Age
Gygax wouldn't have printed an OGL in the first place.
"I would have resigned my position with the company rather than seeing the OGL come into being."
i wouldnt even use gygax as a measure. he wasnt as great a guy as folk make him out to be
The pressure for what, exactly? To retract the offending licence? That's been done. A promise for a more friendly one? Well, you've got it, and you're not going to get a better one. The new licence they've promised? That's going to take time, they weren't lying about that. Actively denying them their money won't speed it up.
The only thing boycotting WotC will achieve now is to persuade them that profit isn't as large as they'd like, do they won't invest as much into D&D from now on. That will barely affect the paycheck of Mr Hasbro, but it will affect my game. All you're achieving by pursuing ever harsher boycotts is to screw people like me over. By all means, hold off on your subscription until the new licence comes through and you know it's acceptable, but this ever expanding boycott people are pushing for is only going to hurt people like me, the Devs might get laid off and the game in general. The people responsible for this mess will, at worst, go to a different department and be fine.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Gygax's leadership drove TSR to bankruptcy and led to him being forced out of the company.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Likely equivalent as a statement to, "I'd rather have watched DnD fade into obscurity and die than see the OGL come into being."
There's really no good argument opposing the fact that the OGL saved DnD 3 and helped make make DnD what it is today.
Gygax was clearly wrong there - and elsewhere.
TSR used to be known as "They Sue Regularly", so I wouldn't put it past TSR to use Hasbro/WOTCs tactics.
Preaching to the choir here, believe me.
But don't you see, we have to burn it all down, and then they will hand the D&D brand to the fans, somehow, or something.
There is no winners in this anymore but what can be salvaged is the question. Wotc made sure nobody can win in this
They have proved to be liers and untrustworthy so there statment in which they lied and patronized and gaslighted repeatedly has zero credibility. Then need to put it in legal binding words. They are hopeing for exactly what your asking so they can push through with there obsurd original 1.1 or as close to it as they can get with minimal damage.