As the title goes, are we, as a community, as the largest collective of the DnD community (if that's possible), able to define "hateful content" amongst ourselves. And, are we able to actively say that we want or don't want WOTC policing what they understand to be "hateful content?"
Also, "harmful, discriminatory, illegal, obscene, or harassing" doesn't really help in the definition of "hateful content." There are plenty of crimes that don't involve hate. There is plenty of ways to harm or harass that don't involve hate. There is plenty that is "obscene'' that doesn't involve hate. There are plenty of examples of discrimination that doesn't involve hate, most importantly discrimination against those you deem "hateful." ("positive" discrimination is still discrimination)
A side note on the creation of "content" in DnD: In my opinion, everything that is made in DnD is make believe. It isn't real. If it isn't real, how can it be "hateful"?
You're asking a question hundreds people before you have asked for the last three years in this forum. And before that, a question many thousands of people have been asking for decades. You want to stick a positive, all-inclusive definition on 'hate', say "THIS is hate. If it's not this, it's not hate."
Problem The First: people discover new and novel ways to be hateful every day. Even if such a definition were possible - which it isn't - it wouldn't be valid for even a day before someone had invented a new way to be hateful towards their fellows. If the definition cannot change, if judgment cannot be relied on to say "this person is doing something that's causing that person anguish and they should stop", the definition is meaningless, hollow, and actively detrimental.
Problem The Second: Saying "this is hate, anything that isn't this isn't hate" means you give hateful people a shiny clear line to sidle riiiiiiiiight up to, and so long as they don't stick a toe over that line they can be Borderline Hateful to as many people as they like for as long as they want. Marginalized people aren't worried about flagrant displays of wildly outlandish Turbo-Exclusionism; a Kanye meltdown polices itself. Marginalized people are worried about constant, unseen low-level aggressions and long-running patterns of behavior, which the whole Firm and Clearly Delinated Definition of 'Hate' greenlights as A-OK.
Problem The Third: You're making the same mistake hundreds of people before you have made with your assumption that if something is "not real", it cannot possibly be hurtful. That is provably false, and has been proven false many times. I'll say this to you the same way I've said it to dozens of others: the worlds of D&D are fictional. The memories and experiences you gain playing games with people within the worlds of D&D are as real as the memories and experiences of doing your job. If you're from a marginalized group and you play at a table where your fellow players are celebrating, glorifying, and wallowing in active hate towards other marginalized groups within the game, with the DM gleefully laying out a banquet of hate for those players to feast on, do you honestly think it's 'doing no harm'?
The game might be make believe, but that does not mean the hate is not real. No one is saying that the fake Star Frontiers game is based on reality, but that does not mean having the black race be specifically described as “unintelligent” is not hateful. It doesn’t make the abject transphobia that is common on these forums not hateful. It does not change the fact that hate can manifest in any form.
And, though it might manifest in a fantasy setting, that kind of permitting hate—especially as it infects somewhere many folks use as a fantasy safe space where they can live as a character who represents who they want to be—has measurable and statistically significant ties to increased rates of depression and suicide. It is not just some esoteric concept of hate—it is a cancer actively hurting (and sometimes killing) people in a place they want to use for escapism.
Maybe you have been lucky to not see any hate. Or maybe you have just been blind to it—either unwittingly or not. But it is there; it is hurting people; and it has no place in the game or in any product that uses the game’s property.
As the title goes, are we, as a community, as the largest collective of the DnD community (if that's possible), able to define "hateful content" amongst ourselves. And, are we able to actively say that we want or don't want WOTC policing what they understand to be "hateful content?"
Also, "harmful, discriminatory, illegal, obscene, or harassing" doesn't really help in the definition of "hateful content." There are plenty of crimes that don't involve hate. There is plenty of ways to harm or harass that don't involve hate. There is plenty that is "obscene'' that doesn't involve hate. There are plenty of examples of discrimination that doesn't involve hate, most importantly discrimination against those you deem "hateful." ("positive" discrimination is still discrimination)
A side note on the creation of "content" in DnD: In my opinion, everything that is made in DnD is make believe. It isn't real. If it isn't real, how can it be "hateful"?
You're asking a question hundreds people before you have asked for the last three years in this forum. And before that, a question many thousands of people have been asking for decades. You want to stick a positive, all-inclusive definition on 'hate', say "THIS is hate. If it's not this, it's not hate."
Problem The First: people discover new and novel ways to be hateful every day. Even if such a definition were possible - which it isn't - it wouldn't be valid for even a day before someone had invented a new way to be hateful towards their fellows. If the definition cannot change, if judgment cannot be relied on to say "this person is doing something that's causing that person anguish and they should stop", the definition is meaningless, hollow, and actively detrimental.
Problem The Second: Saying "this is hate, anything that isn't this isn't hate" means you give hateful people a shiny clear line to sidle riiiiiiiiight up to, and so long as they don't stick a toe over that line they can be Borderline Hateful to as many people as they like for as long as they want. Marginalized people aren't worried about flagrant displays of wildly outlandish Turbo-Exclusionism; a Kanye meltdown polices itself. Marginalized people are worried about constant, unseen low-level aggressions and long-running patterns of behavior, which the whole Firm and Clearly Delinated Definition of 'Hate' greenlights as A-OK.
Problem The Third: You're making the same mistake hundreds of people before you have made with your assumption that if something is "not real", it cannot possibly be hurtful. That is provably false, and has been proven false many times. I'll say this to you the same way I've said it to dozens of others: the worlds of D&D are fictional. The memories and experiences you gain playing games with people within the worlds of D&D are as real as the memories and experiences of doing your job. If you're from a marginalized group and you play at a table where your fellow players are celebrating, glorifying, and wallowing in active hate towards other marginalized groups within the game, with the DM gleefully laying out a banquet of hate for those players to feast on, do you honestly think it's 'doing no harm'?
Please do not contact or message me.
The game might be make believe, but that does not mean the hate is not real. No one is saying that the fake Star Frontiers game is based on reality, but that does not mean having the black race be specifically described as “unintelligent” is not hateful. It doesn’t make the abject transphobia that is common on these forums not hateful. It does not change the fact that hate can manifest in any form.
And, though it might manifest in a fantasy setting, that kind of permitting hate—especially as it infects somewhere many folks use as a fantasy safe space where they can live as a character who represents who they want to be—has measurable and statistically significant ties to increased rates of depression and suicide. It is not just some esoteric concept of hate—it is a cancer actively hurting (and sometimes killing) people in a place they want to use for escapism.
Maybe you have been lucky to not see any hate. Or maybe you have just been blind to it—either unwittingly or not. But it is there; it is hurting people; and it has no place in the game or in any product that uses the game’s property.
In addition to the well-stated points above, here's my answer from a thread that seems like it's about to be shut down for going truly off the rails. Maybe this is good. Maybe we can all stay on track in this one.