Monetizing does not necessarily mean MMO. That would be impossible to do for a tabletop game anyway.
MMO's were SPECIFICALLY referenced as a way WOTC can monetize.
And that is why the idea s being tossed about that OneD&D will be offered exclusively through D&D Beyond. The new management of WOTC wants money and could care less about the TTRPG except as a means to get to increased revenue streams and profits
Personally I would love a good D&D MMO where you and a party of friends could run the published adventures as well as explore the surrounding areas... It wouldn't replace D&D at all but I see no reason not to have both.
Personally I would love a good D&D MMO where you and a party of friends could run the published adventures as well as explore the surrounding areas... It wouldn't replace D&D at all but I see no reason not to have both.
Neverwinter already exists. That is the D&D MMO as well as D&D Online. For Non-MMO RPG's you already have all the Baldurs Gate I and II, Neverwinter NIghts, Icewind Dale I and II, and dozens of others.
That's the point - WOTC doesn't need to completely mess up the TTRPG experience by monetizing TTRPG more. They should just make an MMO that isn't crap and leave the TTRPG community alone.
There are unsubstantiated reports that the senior executives, mostly a guy named Cao if rumours are believed, have no real understanding of the difference between an online game and a TTRPG. The actions of WotC do not undermine those rumours and display a fundamental lack of understanding of the community, it's history and the way the game is played. Some of the reports show a marked disrespect for the players of D&D. WotC's actions and communications around the OGL make the reports entirely too believable.
In summary - if true - the executives appear to see only one way to monetise D&D, and that is to destroy the 3rd party support, especially VTTs, and expect players and DMs to invest in the game to a similar level. Some of this they may be backtracking on for now in light of the backlash, but I have no doubt they will just move forward at a slower pace, unless there is a change to the upper echelons at WotC.
Let's be honest most of us will not be directly affected by any changes to the OGL, but it was draconian and designed to be overly punitive to any one who signed up to it, and WotC were dishonest and disrespectful in how they handled it once leaked. It also puts the recent lack of quality products in a rather unflattering light - they don't respect the players and truly believe that we will buy anything with D&D on the front (sadly it is probably true in fairness to them).
Let's be honest most of us will not be directly affected by any changes to the OGL
I am most definitely affected. I went over to Paizo's website and downloaded a series of 5 free adventures with funny and original content so far and above anything produced by WOTC. I'm going to use these to DM the funnest series of adventures in my life. Oh - and best of all - their plot - get this - actually links together and makes sense and the five adventures all together actually link together to the grater world in a way that the players will be invested in. Imagine that - not just randomly tossed together adventures that don't make sense. Not recycled stuff that was fresh 40 years ago. Not stuff that doesn't actually make any sense or adventures that characters have zero reasons to actually take part in besided they are published adventures.
My games will definitely be dramatically affected for the better by changes to the OGL - because it forced me to look at what these 3rd party publishers have been making - and the only way to describe it is "better".
Monetizing does not necessarily mean MMO. That would be impossible to do for a tabletop game anyway.
Oh - I wish you'd call it market economy. Capitalism sounds so monocle-tophat-wolfheaded-cane comic book villain-esque. Not that you're wrong, or anything, but I do believe most faceless, soulless corporate drones are actually decent human beings without any overtly malign intention.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I do believe most faceless, soulless corporate drones are actually decent human beings without any overtly malign intention.
Have you ever worked with these people? lol
I intentionally work for smaller organizations and make 25% less money just because I have always encountered "overt malign intention" in every large corporation.
It's something society is going to have to face eventually - that while it may seem that decisions made by a corporation cannot be assigned to an individual - in fact - obviously - humans do actually make these decisions and should be held accountable for their individual decisions under the auspices of a corporation. Every nefarious or malignant decision that harmed or even killed people was made by a human who was shielded from being held personally accountable.
In the case of WOTC, we have a CEO with an employment history of working for a company that literally sells addiction that causes cancer. When she comes to WOTC and starts to use the same tactics to destroy our hobby, do we assume she is a "decent human being without malign intention"?
No - individuals who work for corporations that have malign intention are to some degree accountable for those decisions. Of course, the less power they have the less they are responsible - but the ones at the top with full power bear full responsibility.
"Brand"? It's a hobby. People play D&D without the thing Wizards make that, in my honest opinion, more and more increasingly becomes D&D in name only.
As we speak, there are people in the forums shrieking about how if people walk away from Wizards it will threaten to topple this platform and how they personally play the game. As we speak, there are people supporting the likelihood Wizards will soon succumb to spiteful and selfish mobs on social media and begin shafting licensees for so much as retweeting someone that offends their personal sensibilities. Who's making this all about themselves and acting as if the universe revolves around them?
Wizards put out exponentially fewer books a year than they were doing so in the eighties and nineties. And, in my honest opinion, the quality of what it does put out is infinitely inferior.
D&D is a brand too. Wizards does not have to make money off of D&D solely through TTRPGs: movies, comics, videogames, merchandise, etc. are all good ways to earn more money. Even within the TTRPG space, I think it is a good idea they diversify and offer digital tools. You do not have to like it nor use it, but plenty of people find these digital tools invaluable, and they all vote with their wallets just like you do.
Honestly, for me, it is a good thing those people are leaving, hopefully permanently so they never come back. I do not like to deal with and interact with people who are susceptible to misinformation and get outraged over nothing. I prefer a community that is more level headed and express outrage over more relevant matters. Being outraged over a company exercising their IP rights and wanting to make more money is just... uuuggghhh... to me. And I do not buy the BS that third parties need protection, they are not stupid, and if they are, then they deserve the consequences. Same for Wizards, they reap what they sow, and they have to deal with the consequences of having less than stellar communication and PR.
I am fine with how frequently Wizards release their products. For me, it is not too much and not too little. I would not mind it if they do release things a bit more frequently, but I definitely do not want them to release a new book every month. I do not have any issue with their quality, seems fine to me.
Personally I would love a good D&D MMO where you and a party of friends could run the published adventures as well as explore the surrounding areas... It wouldn't replace D&D at all but I see no reason not to have both.
Neverwinter already exists. That is the D&D MMO as well as D&D Online. For Non-MMO RPG's you already have all the Baldurs Gate I and II, Neverwinter NIghts, Icewind Dale I and II, and dozens of others.
That's the point - WOTC doesn't need to completely mess up the TTRPG experience by monetizing TTRPG more. They should just make an MMO that isn't crap and leave the TTRPG community alone.
This is what I don't get.. MMO exists and DnD even have a number of them, I've played a few in the past and the experience is almost completely seperate to a TTRPG game session (one of the reasons I stopped playing them). It seems they are pursuing a strategy and have invested so much money and time into it they can't change course. If people want to play a MMO they'll play one of the existing ones I don't see how making DnD like a MMO will make more people play, they'll just go and play other TTRPG's (or just keep playing 5E).
If they tried to pull they game off of kitchen tables and into an MMO, yeah. If they were trying to stop the pen and paper game and someone force MMO only upon us. But there is no way they could make that happen. There is a segment of hardcore pen and paper pushers who will never play any other way and who will always keep that alive, even if they have to play a decades old version to do so.
If they tried to pull they game off of kitchen tables and into an MMO, yeah. If they were trying to stop the pen and paper game and someone force MMO only upon us. But there is no way they could make that happen. There is a segment of hardcore pen and paper pushers who will never play any other way and who will always keep that alive, even if they have to play a decades old version to do so.
There is a segment of hardcore pen and paper pushers who will never play any other way and who will always keep that alive, even if they have to play a decades old version to do so.
Indeed, which is why there was the great Unsub and Diaspora of Jan 2023 out of D&D and into other game systems.
There is a segment of hardcore pen and paper pushers who will never play any other way and who will always keep that alive, even if they have to play a decades old version to do so.
Indeed, which is why there was the great Unsub and Diaspora of Jan 2023 out of D&D and into other game systems.
Actually I think the hardcore oldschoolers never looked up from their handwritten maps and character sheets long enough to sub, none the less unsub. Not everything is about your agenda.
Actually I think the hardcore oldschoolers never looked up from their handwritten maps and character sheets long enough to sub, none the less unsub. Not everything is about your agenda.
Not everyone is "hardcore oldschoolers" or D&D Fanbois.
The population isn't divided into only those two groups.
.... I do believe most faceless, soulless corporate drones are actually decent human beings without any overtly malign intention.
This is the byline of just about every BBEG and evil that ever was.
That is why the quote "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" exists.
Evil rarely sees itself as evil. It is evil because it is willing to step on anyone and do just about anything to achieve their own goals for what they think is a good result, whether they are shown otherwise or not.
Sounds more and more that the Senior execs at Hasbro and WotC are hellbent on a strategy that they think is what the community wants and by happy chance makes the huge amount of money they need to hit their targets. The only flaw being they haven’t really bothered to validate that with said community.
I’m sure this all looked wonderful in their spreadsheets and PowerPoint decks.
With all the talk of D&D becoming more like an MMO, I am reminded of way back when, many moons ago before Neverwinter MMO and D&D online were things, there was Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2. Mostly designed as single player video game experiences but they had a "DM Mode" where you could design dungeons and monsters and run the game for multiple players online, so if they brought back that type of game play for future version of D&D I might be ok with it.
The downside for me would be they would either do it as a monthly subscription or do it as a free to play with a metric ton of play to win/loot box mechanics.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
Monetizing does not necessarily mean MMO. That would be impossible to do for a tabletop game anyway.
MMO's were SPECIFICALLY referenced as a way WOTC can monetize.
And that is why the idea s being tossed about that OneD&D will be offered exclusively through D&D Beyond.
The new management of WOTC wants money and could care less about the TTRPG except as a means to get to increased revenue streams and profits
Personally I would love a good D&D MMO where you and a party of friends could run the published adventures as well as explore the surrounding areas... It wouldn't replace D&D at all but I see no reason not to have both.
Neverwinter already exists. That is the D&D MMO as well as D&D Online. For Non-MMO RPG's you already have all the Baldurs Gate I and II, Neverwinter NIghts, Icewind Dale I and II, and dozens of others.
That's the point - WOTC doesn't need to completely mess up the TTRPG experience by monetizing TTRPG more. They should just make an MMO that isn't crap and leave the TTRPG community alone.
There are unsubstantiated reports that the senior executives, mostly a guy named Cao if rumours are believed, have no real understanding of the difference between an online game and a TTRPG. The actions of WotC do not undermine those rumours and display a fundamental lack of understanding of the community, it's history and the way the game is played. Some of the reports show a marked disrespect for the players of D&D. WotC's actions and communications around the OGL make the reports entirely too believable.
In summary - if true - the executives appear to see only one way to monetise D&D, and that is to destroy the 3rd party support, especially VTTs, and expect players and DMs to invest in the game to a similar level. Some of this they may be backtracking on for now in light of the backlash, but I have no doubt they will just move forward at a slower pace, unless there is a change to the upper echelons at WotC.
Let's be honest most of us will not be directly affected by any changes to the OGL, but it was draconian and designed to be overly punitive to any one who signed up to it, and WotC were dishonest and disrespectful in how they handled it once leaked. It also puts the recent lack of quality products in a rather unflattering light - they don't respect the players and truly believe that we will buy anything with D&D on the front (sadly it is probably true in fairness to them).
Thank you!
I was like, “We had that once. It was called Living Greyhawk.”
I am most definitely affected. I went over to Paizo's website and downloaded a series of 5 free adventures with funny and original content so far and above anything produced by WOTC. I'm going to use these to DM the funnest series of adventures in my life. Oh - and best of all - their plot - get this - actually links together and makes sense and the five adventures all together actually link together to the grater world in a way that the players will be invested in. Imagine that - not just randomly tossed together adventures that don't make sense. Not recycled stuff that was fresh 40 years ago. Not stuff that doesn't actually make any sense or adventures that characters have zero reasons to actually take part in besided they are published adventures.
My games will definitely be dramatically affected for the better by changes to the OGL - because it forced me to look at what these 3rd party publishers have been making - and the only way to describe it is "better".
Oh - I wish you'd call it market economy. Capitalism sounds so monocle-tophat-wolfheaded-cane comic book villain-esque. Not that you're wrong, or anything, but I do believe most faceless, soulless corporate drones are actually decent human beings without any overtly malign intention.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Have you ever worked with these people? lol
I intentionally work for smaller organizations and make 25% less money just because I have always encountered "overt malign intention" in every large corporation.
It's something society is going to have to face eventually - that while it may seem that decisions made by a corporation cannot be assigned to an individual - in fact - obviously - humans do actually make these decisions and should be held accountable for their individual decisions under the auspices of a corporation. Every nefarious or malignant decision that harmed or even killed people was made by a human who was shielded from being held personally accountable.
In the case of WOTC, we have a CEO with an employment history of working for a company that literally sells addiction that causes cancer. When she comes to WOTC and starts to use the same tactics to destroy our hobby, do we assume she is a "decent human being without malign intention"?
No - individuals who work for corporations that have malign intention are to some degree accountable for those decisions. Of course, the less power they have the less they are responsible - but the ones at the top with full power bear full responsibility.
D&D is a brand too. Wizards does not have to make money off of D&D solely through TTRPGs: movies, comics, videogames, merchandise, etc. are all good ways to earn more money. Even within the TTRPG space, I think it is a good idea they diversify and offer digital tools. You do not have to like it nor use it, but plenty of people find these digital tools invaluable, and they all vote with their wallets just like you do.
Honestly, for me, it is a good thing those people are leaving, hopefully permanently so they never come back. I do not like to deal with and interact with people who are susceptible to misinformation and get outraged over nothing. I prefer a community that is more level headed and express outrage over more relevant matters. Being outraged over a company exercising their IP rights and wanting to make more money is just... uuuggghhh... to me. And I do not buy the BS that third parties need protection, they are not stupid, and if they are, then they deserve the consequences. Same for Wizards, they reap what they sow, and they have to deal with the consequences of having less than stellar communication and PR.
I am fine with how frequently Wizards release their products. For me, it is not too much and not too little. I would not mind it if they do release things a bit more frequently, but I definitely do not want them to release a new book every month. I do not have any issue with their quality, seems fine to me.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Would it be so bad if it were to be an MMO?
This is what I don't get.. MMO exists and DnD even have a number of them, I've played a few in the past and the experience is almost completely seperate to a TTRPG game session (one of the reasons I stopped playing them). It seems they are pursuing a strategy and have invested so much money and time into it they can't change course. If people want to play a MMO they'll play one of the existing ones I don't see how making DnD like a MMO will make more people play, they'll just go and play other TTRPG's (or just keep playing 5E).
If they tried to pull they game off of kitchen tables and into an MMO, yeah. If they were trying to stop the pen and paper game and someone force MMO only upon us. But there is no way they could make that happen. There is a segment of hardcore pen and paper pushers who will never play any other way and who will always keep that alive, even if they have to play a decades old version to do so.
Fair point, thank you for your insight.😊
Indeed, which is why there was the great Unsub and Diaspora of Jan 2023 out of D&D and into other game systems.
Actually I think the hardcore oldschoolers never looked up from their handwritten maps and character sheets long enough to sub, none the less unsub. Not everything is about your agenda.
Not everyone is "hardcore oldschoolers" or D&D Fanbois.
The population isn't divided into only those two groups.
"My agenda", lol. That's funny.
This is the byline of just about every BBEG and evil that ever was.
That is why the quote "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" exists.
Evil rarely sees itself as evil. It is evil because it is willing to step on anyone and do just about anything to achieve their own goals for what they think is a good result, whether they are shown otherwise or not.
- Loswaith
Sounds more and more that the Senior execs at Hasbro and WotC are hellbent on a strategy that they think is what the community wants and by happy chance makes the huge amount of money they need to hit their targets. The only flaw being they haven’t really bothered to validate that with said community.
I’m sure this all looked wonderful in their spreadsheets and PowerPoint decks.
With all the talk of D&D becoming more like an MMO, I am reminded of way back when, many moons ago before Neverwinter MMO and D&D online were things, there was Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2. Mostly designed as single player video game experiences but they had a "DM Mode" where you could design dungeons and monsters and run the game for multiple players online, so if they brought back that type of game play for future version of D&D I might be ok with it.
The downside for me would be they would either do it as a monthly subscription or do it as a free to play with a metric ton of play to win/loot box mechanics.