To my surprise (and relief) it has been officially stated that the OGL 1.0a will remain untouched. There are videos online explaining it in more detail, but this is the main thing. So, with the good news, who is going to re-subscribe to D&D Beyond and begin purchasing WotC products again?
Were the OGL happenings to continue until or beyond the 4th Feb, I would've unsubscribed on the 5th to give my group time to move to PDFs, pen-and-paper, physical dice and so forth. Thankfully that's not been necessary. While I won't be ending my subscription, I will not be spending further money on books (which would've been less anyway given the Legendary Bundle discount, which I unfortunately purchased on Cyber Monday), dice or other such things. My group's DM imagines that our campaign will reach its climax in July, so I won't need to remain subscribed thereafter. My group has much more confidence in the idea of playing other systems, and not just fantasy or d20 based ones.
For the time being I'll permit myself a moment to celebrate, but I won't forget this come the time of One D&D, which interests me considerably less than it used to, especially when we don't know what's to happen with its own OGL/SRD (and even more worryingly, D&Done is supposed to be the one to end the concept of editions, but then, wasn't 5th? Please correct me if I'm wrong).
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Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
I'm going to say: WoTC/Hasbro are almost certainly still going to create license framework and secure their intellectual property with the purpose making money on games and movies based on the D&D brand. They're also going to create a 'software as a service' platform, building on Beyond, to make playing D&D subscription based rather than 'buy books at the local store' based.
This is going to make them ... very, very substaintially more money.
And that's fine.
How they're going to go about it I cannot say, but I'll personally guarantee that their intentions are unchanged - but I'm sure they've learned valuable lessons regarding how to present those intentions to the public. I'm pretty sure someone in marketing can sell all of the above to the community as resoundingly good news - while, as we've clearly seen, someone in the legal department can make an absolute dissaster out of it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If WotC had announced that OneD&D would have a new license with similar terms to 1.1, I think it would have been a short flash of reaction and then died down. But they tried to shove it down people's throats, under an NDA, with no real notice. It would have forced companies to either operate at a loss or burn their existing stock. A lot of companies would have gone out of business. THAT, in my opinion is why it went so hard sideways on them. If companies could still produce their 5e products and sell them, it would never have had traction. But they tried to be sneaky. They tried to be the villain. And it didn't work out well.
Ironically, this was 4e all over again. unpopular moves with the OGL and new game system uncertainty, third parties left in the cold. Remember Paizo publishing Dragon and Dungeon magazines and then being told they would have to stop as well as waiting a year to publish anything for 4e? It was a survival reaction, just like this was. If WotC just keeps their cranial - rectal interface disengaged and doesn't try to kill the third parties, things stay smooth.
While I am happy with the news, I won't be buying every single new book that surfaces.
I too got the legendary bundle on cybermonday and got plenty of books atm. My sub is for another year and our group will be using it to so some other campaigns (yay, not a forever DM anymore).
I will be trying some other systems after my player ran their campaigns and might circle back to DnD or not. I have been focussing more on 3rd party content and homebrew since all the OGL drama and for now that is the way to go for me.
Unless WotC start releasing higher quality content I do not think I will buy another book.
Also our group is now looking forward to play "oldschool", no devices at the table anymore. Just pen and paper. They can never take that away anymore with whatever action they take. Was even looking forward to building a table for vtt use, but will skip that as well.
You know I'm in an interesting spot. There have been two times I WOULD have bought and started running 5e and probably even subscribed with a paid subscription.First was the release of Spelljammer but the reviews were so bad and when I purused the material I saw they were right so I didn't buy into 5e then. Then a friend of mine really wanted to do the Innistrad or Ravenloft worlds and suggested I run 5e a few weeks ago since those campaigns were written for it. That was smack dab in the middle of the OGL drama so I flat out refused. Because of this refusal we did some research on a different system and we found one that fit what we wanted to do way better than 5e ever would (Zweihander).
Now it's too late. I imagine at this point DMs like me are in the minority (after 8ish years you've either started with 5e or are doing another system) but it's still lost business. For the record even if I hadn't paid for and commited to this new system this wouldn't make me decide it's time to start spending money on 5e with all this crap. I can't believe I'm unique in that regard.
I was planning to resub, but after some mod input, I've decided against it. My credit cards aren't compatible with ridiculous arbitrary enforcement of rules. I wish you all the best.
You know I'm in an interesting spot. There have been two times I WOULD have bought and started running 5e and probably even subscribed with a paid subscription.First was the release of Spelljammer but the reviews were so bad and when I purused the material I saw they were right so I didn't buy into 5e then. Then a friend of mine really wanted to do the Innistrad or Ravenloft worlds and suggested I run 5e a few weeks ago since those campaigns were written for it. That was smack dab in the middle of the OGL drama so I flat out refused. Because of this refusal we did some research on a different system and we found one that fit what we wanted to do way better than 5e ever would (Zweihander).
Now it's too late. I imagine at this point DMs like me are in the minority (after 8ish years you've either started with 5e or are doing another system) but it's still lost business. For the record even if I hadn't paid for and commited to this new system this wouldn't make me decide it's time to start spending money on 5e with all this crap. I can't believe I'm unique in that regard.
You know that you can still play D&D, even if WotC ****s up, right? They aren't going to break down your door and demand you to hand over your 5e books.
You know I'm in an interesting spot. There have been two times I WOULD have bought and started running 5e and probably even subscribed with a paid subscription.First was the release of Spelljammer but the reviews were so bad and when I purused the material I saw they were right so I didn't buy into 5e then. Then a friend of mine really wanted to do the Innistrad or Ravenloft worlds and suggested I run 5e a few weeks ago since those campaigns were written for it. That was smack dab in the middle of the OGL drama so I flat out refused. Because of this refusal we did some research on a different system and we found one that fit what we wanted to do way better than 5e ever would (Zweihander).
Now it's too late. I imagine at this point DMs like me are in the minority (after 8ish years you've either started with 5e or are doing another system) but it's still lost business. For the record even if I hadn't paid for and commited to this new system this wouldn't make me decide it's time to start spending money on 5e with all this crap. I can't believe I'm unique in that regard.
You know that you can still play D&D, even if WotC ****s up, right? They aren't going to break down your door and demand you to hand over your 5e books.
Did you read anything I wrote? I have no D&D books for 5e. I might have bought some if they had put any effort into making Spelljammer not suck or had this OGL drama blow up. Now I've gone to another system and they've pretty much lost me. I bring this up to point out there are probably some (who knows how many) potential customers they've lost because of all this.
Yes, to show them that making the correct moves in regards to the community and supporting their works will net them rewards. The finger will still be quick to flip the renewal back off though if they try to sneak 1.1 like changes into future licenses. There is a road they can walk where they use carrots to achieve goals like making sure the community encourages inclusive behavior, they don't need to use the bundle of sticks that was 1.1/1.2. Off the top of my head....what if they offer an official approval badge that allows use of 3PP content in Adventurer's League for works that agree to a separate content policy? Or they make books available through a DDB marketplace if they agree (maybe also taking a few for that)?
Yes, to show them that making the correct moves in regards to the community and supporting their works will net them rewards. The finger will still be quick to flip the renewal back off though if they try to sneak 1.1 like changes into future licenses. There is a road they can walk where they use carrots to achieve goals like making sure the community encourages inclusive behavior, they don't need to use the bundle of sticks that was 1.1/1.2. Off the top of my head....what if they offer an official approval badge that allows use of 3PP content in Adventurer's League for works that agree to a separate content policy? Or they make books available through a DDB marketplace if they agree (maybe also taking a few for that)?
Didn't 1.2 basically have that with the content creator badge?
Not really. The badge granted no benefits that slapping "5E" on the cover didn't cover already and there was no alternative path for those that didn't want to put their whole business in the hands of the whims of a content and personal conduct moderator at WotC.
Not really. The badge granted no benefits that slapping "5E" on the cover didn't cover already and there was no alternative path for those that didn't want to put their whole business in the hands of the whims of a content and personal conduct moderator at WotC.
They did do something like this in the early 2000s with the D20 System Trademark License. Then the Book of Erotic fantasy got published under it and things went a bit wacky.
I re-subscribed this morning. The carrot and stick approach does sometimes require the carrots, after all. Obviously, if WotC changes tack again, so will I.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." - Starfleet Admiral Aaron Satie
I was planning to resub, but after some mod input, I've decided against it. My credit cards aren't compatible with ridiculous arbitrary enforcement of rules. I wish you all the best.
That's too bad. You made some good points.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." - Starfleet Admiral Aaron Satie
I'm waiting a bit to make sure there not a "however..." statement. That said, as long as they don't try any monkey business, I'll go back to supporting them soon. I don't begrudge a for-profit company making money, so long as I don't feel abused by the transaction.
Nah, I'm done. This whole thing has made me feel gross about ever supporting WotC again. I used to buy every sourcebook, and I bought the handful of adventures I didn't have shortly before this debacle started... but 1) this smacks of "give them what they want, then try again when they forget," and 2) this gave me a reason to look at Pathfinder 2e and I honestly like it way more.
So yeah, WotC needs to go the extra mile for me to care again. Too many greedy decisions over the past little while (**** forced sourcebook/adventure bundles) for me to accept even a return to the status quo - we gave them chances and they threw it in our faces. Not coming back unless they genuinely demonstrate extra effort to supporting the community-driven experience that _actually_ makes the game good.
My subscription renewed in the heat of this nonsense (right before it got to the point where pitchforks need to be pulled out) and so I was already currently subscribed and was intending to unsubscribe if things continued badly.
I'm still looking for the future to see if something mucks up the system... because I am still wary that those in charge might do something else that make DnD Beyond less useful for my group... I'm the one currently buying everything and paying the subs... and I don't mind doing that... however if they try to make it so everyone needs to buy something were going to have issues.
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To my surprise (and relief) it has been officially stated that the OGL 1.0a will remain untouched. There are videos online explaining it in more detail, but this is the main thing. So, with the good news, who is going to re-subscribe to D&D Beyond and begin purchasing WotC products again?
If anybody would like my GMing playlists
battles: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2mRp57MBAz9ZsVpw895IzZ?si=243bee43442a4703
exploration: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0qk0aKm5yI4K6VrlcaKrDj?si=81057bef509043f3
town/tavern: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/49JSv1kK0bUyQ9LVpKmZlr?si=a88b1dd9bab54111
character deaths: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6k7WhylJEjSqWC0pBuAtFD?si=3e897fa2a2dd469e
Were the OGL happenings to continue until or beyond the 4th Feb, I would've unsubscribed on the 5th to give my group time to move to PDFs, pen-and-paper, physical dice and so forth. Thankfully that's not been necessary. While I won't be ending my subscription, I will not be spending further money on books (which would've been less anyway given the Legendary Bundle discount, which I unfortunately purchased on Cyber Monday), dice or other such things. My group's DM imagines that our campaign will reach its climax in July, so I won't need to remain subscribed thereafter. My group has much more confidence in the idea of playing other systems, and not just fantasy or d20 based ones.
For the time being I'll permit myself a moment to celebrate, but I won't forget this come the time of One D&D, which interests me considerably less than it used to, especially when we don't know what's to happen with its own OGL/SRD (and even more worryingly, D&Done is supposed to be the one to end the concept of editions, but then, wasn't 5th? Please correct me if I'm wrong).
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
I'm going to say: WoTC/Hasbro are almost certainly still going to create license framework and secure their intellectual property with the purpose making money on games and movies based on the D&D brand. They're also going to create a 'software as a service' platform, building on Beyond, to make playing D&D subscription based rather than 'buy books at the local store' based.
This is going to make them ... very, very substaintially more money.
And that's fine.
How they're going to go about it I cannot say, but I'll personally guarantee that their intentions are unchanged - but I'm sure they've learned valuable lessons regarding how to present those intentions to the public. I'm pretty sure someone in marketing can sell all of the above to the community as resoundingly good news - while, as we've clearly seen, someone in the legal department can make an absolute dissaster out of it.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If WotC had announced that OneD&D would have a new license with similar terms to 1.1, I think it would have been a short flash of reaction and then died down. But they tried to shove it down people's throats, under an NDA, with no real notice. It would have forced companies to either operate at a loss or burn their existing stock. A lot of companies would have gone out of business. THAT, in my opinion is why it went so hard sideways on them. If companies could still produce their 5e products and sell them, it would never have had traction. But they tried to be sneaky. They tried to be the villain. And it didn't work out well.
Ironically, this was 4e all over again. unpopular moves with the OGL and new game system uncertainty, third parties left in the cold. Remember Paizo publishing Dragon and Dungeon magazines and then being told they would have to stop as well as waiting a year to publish anything for 4e? It was a survival reaction, just like this was. If WotC just keeps their cranial - rectal interface disengaged and doesn't try to kill the third parties, things stay smooth.
Oh, and yes, I am resubbing as long as they continue on this path.
While I am happy with the news, I won't be buying every single new book that surfaces.
I too got the legendary bundle on cybermonday and got plenty of books atm. My sub is for another year and our group will be using it to so some other campaigns (yay, not a forever DM anymore).
I will be trying some other systems after my player ran their campaigns and might circle back to DnD or not. I have been focussing more on 3rd party content and homebrew since all the OGL drama and for now that is the way to go for me.
Unless WotC start releasing higher quality content I do not think I will buy another book.
Also our group is now looking forward to play "oldschool", no devices at the table anymore. Just pen and paper. They can never take that away anymore with whatever action they take. Was even looking forward to building a table for vtt use, but will skip that as well.
You shouldn't have been doing that in the first place though? Don't you read any reviews before you buy things?
[REDACTED]
You know I'm in an interesting spot. There have been two times I WOULD have bought and started running 5e and probably even subscribed with a paid subscription.First was the release of Spelljammer but the reviews were so bad and when I purused the material I saw they were right so I didn't buy into 5e then. Then a friend of mine really wanted to do the Innistrad or Ravenloft worlds and suggested I run 5e a few weeks ago since those campaigns were written for it. That was smack dab in the middle of the OGL drama so I flat out refused. Because of this refusal we did some research on a different system and we found one that fit what we wanted to do way better than 5e ever would (Zweihander).
Now it's too late. I imagine at this point DMs like me are in the minority (after 8ish years you've either started with 5e or are doing another system) but it's still lost business. For the record even if I hadn't paid for and commited to this new system this wouldn't make me decide it's time to start spending money on 5e with all this crap. I can't believe I'm unique in that regard.
I was planning to resub, but after some mod input, I've decided against it. My credit cards aren't compatible with ridiculous arbitrary enforcement of rules. I wish you all the best.
You know that you can still play D&D, even if WotC ****s up, right? They aren't going to break down your door and demand you to hand over your 5e books.
[REDACTED]
Did you read anything I wrote? I have no D&D books for 5e. I might have bought some if they had put any effort into making Spelljammer not suck or had this OGL drama blow up. Now I've gone to another system and they've pretty much lost me. I bring this up to point out there are probably some (who knows how many) potential customers they've lost because of all this.
Yes, to show them that making the correct moves in regards to the community and supporting their works will net them rewards. The finger will still be quick to flip the renewal back off though if they try to sneak 1.1 like changes into future licenses. There is a road they can walk where they use carrots to achieve goals like making sure the community encourages inclusive behavior, they don't need to use the bundle of sticks that was 1.1/1.2. Off the top of my head....what if they offer an official approval badge that allows use of 3PP content in Adventurer's League for works that agree to a separate content policy? Or they make books available through a DDB marketplace if they agree (maybe also taking a few for that)?
Didn't 1.2 basically have that with the content creator badge?
Not really. The badge granted no benefits that slapping "5E" on the cover didn't cover already and there was no alternative path for those that didn't want to put their whole business in the hands of the whims of a content and personal conduct moderator at WotC.
They did do something like this in the early 2000s with the D20 System Trademark License. Then the Book of Erotic fantasy got published under it and things went a bit wacky.
I re-subscribed this morning. The carrot and stick approach does sometimes require the carrots, after all. Obviously, if WotC changes tack again, so will I.
“With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." - Starfleet Admiral Aaron SatieThat's too bad. You made some good points.
“With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." - Starfleet Admiral Aaron SatieI'm waiting a bit to make sure there not a "however..." statement. That said, as long as they don't try any monkey business, I'll go back to supporting them soon. I don't begrudge a for-profit company making money, so long as I don't feel abused by the transaction.
Nah, I'm done. This whole thing has made me feel gross about ever supporting WotC again. I used to buy every sourcebook, and I bought the handful of adventures I didn't have shortly before this debacle started... but 1) this smacks of "give them what they want, then try again when they forget," and 2) this gave me a reason to look at Pathfinder 2e and I honestly like it way more.
So yeah, WotC needs to go the extra mile for me to care again. Too many greedy decisions over the past little while (**** forced sourcebook/adventure bundles) for me to accept even a return to the status quo - we gave them chances and they threw it in our faces. Not coming back unless they genuinely demonstrate extra effort to supporting the community-driven experience that _actually_ makes the game good.
My subscription renewed in the heat of this nonsense (right before it got to the point where pitchforks need to be pulled out) and so I was already currently subscribed and was intending to unsubscribe if things continued badly.
I'm still looking for the future to see if something mucks up the system... because I am still wary that those in charge might do something else that make DnD Beyond less useful for my group... I'm the one currently buying everything and paying the subs... and I don't mind doing that... however if they try to make it so everyone needs to buy something were going to have issues.