Were the OGL happenings to continue until or beyond the 4th Feb, I would've unsubscribed on the 5th to give my group time to move to PDFs, pen-and-paper, physical dice and so forth. Thankfully that's not been necessary. While I won't be ending my subscription, I will not be spending further money on books (which would've been less anyway given the Legendary Bundle discount, which I unfortunately purchased on Cyber Monday), dice or other such things. My group's DM imagines that our campaign will reach its climax in July, so I won't need to remain subscribed thereafter. My group has much more confidence in the idea of playing other systems, and not just fantasy or d20 based ones.
For the time being I'll permit myself a moment to celebrate, but I won't forget this come the time of One D&D, which interests me considerably less than it used to, especially when we don't know what's to happen with its own OGL/SRD (and even more worryingly, D&Done is supposed to be the one to end the concept of editions, but then, wasn't 5th? Please correct me if I'm wrong).
One DnD can't have it's own SRD or OGL because it is not a new system, this is not 3rd to 4th or 4th to 5th, it is 5.5 a reskin not new mechanics.
If they did now make One DnD so it was an entire new system then, all those 3rd party content creators would simply continue making 5th edition material and you would get what happened with Pathfinder all over again, only this time Wizards main competitor would be it's own system and rules.
I'm not resubscribing until we get the vow to also give future editions the same treatment as 5e got: SRD in the CC or under OGL 1.0(a)
I think you need to understand how what they have done works. If One DnD continues to be as presented in the play test material then it must still be covered by the same SRD and OGL, because it is based off of 5th edition, a reskin not an entire new game system. If it is backwards compatible then any changes to the skin simply get applied to the current SRD.
If wizards did decide to go off and make a new edition with a new OGL, what they have just done means that content creators can still just keep making 5th edition material and could even publish a version of the players handbook etc to ensure that new players have access to the base rules. Wizards have created a situation whereby any attempt to get rid of 5th edition and "control" a new edition, instantly just makes a new Pathfinder they have to compete against.
To my surprise (and relief) it has been officially stated that the OGL 1.0a will remain untouched. There are videos online explaining it in more detail, but this is the main thing. So, with the good news, who is going to re-subscribe to D&D Beyond and begin purchasing WotC products again?
This is no real victory. A new, stronger OGL would have meant we would be pretty much guaranteed that the new SRD for the new edition in ‘24 would be released under that same OGL. Now, lord knows what kind of Draconic 🐶💩 we’ll get for the next edition. As a 3PP, this makes me very nervous. People should stop looking to the past and instead look to the future.
I don't think I'll be renewing until Cao is removed. It's obvious, after watching the DnD Shorts video with the employee leaks, that the direction he wants to take DnD is fundamentally incompatible with what I want from it, and I don't for a second believe that this little fiasco has really caused him or anyone in the exec offices at WotC to have a genuine change of heart.
Does it matter? They can release their NEW content under any license they want, or no license at all, right? If they want to try to go it alone and produce all the 6e content themselves, more power to them. Just so long as they don't release under 1.0a to get 1000s of independent content producers working on their stuff, and then try to yank the rug out from under all of them when they have "enough" material and are looking for something else. Because that would be despicable, legally dubious and really, really dumb. Amiright?
The other thing to consider is what will happen on dndbeyond when OneDND is released.
Will it be updated to only support OneDND, thus we lose all our existing 5E content?
We won't know these things until next year.
yea thats my other big concern. Would they "branch" the sheet system because not matter WHAT talking heads have said on video, this shit is NOT backwards compatible with existing characters. So if for some reason I was able to come back in 3 years time, would I be able to make a character that replicates my existing ones? I rather doubt it tbh and thats another no bueno for me bro.
And again, why in the hell would they scrap an existing system that is already functional and already is able to tie in with existing VTT's?
Because they don't want us using existing VTTs. They want us to use theirs. Why that means killing DDB is beyond me, since you could just integrate the two, but that seems to be the direction the current management is going. Sure, as players of the game and DDB users we look at that and say it makes no sense, just like how the whole community looked at all the OGL stuff WOTC tried to pull and said it made no sense. That's the point I was trying to make: the people in charge of our game are out of touch corporate thinkers who don't care about improving the game experience and are only concerned with their bottom line. And they, for whatever reason, believe this is the best way to make their bottom line better.
They could do that by no longer supporting Avrae.
What has the management actually done?
The management team that just trashed their own community, stock price, and reputation? You're right, they make good, rational decisions and we should blindly trust that they'll do what we think is best for the future of the game and this platform.
Or we can look at what's been going on. Since WOTC took over DDB, there have been no major improvements or updates to the site. Things that were in the works before (shared party inventory, item trading between players in a campaign, Dark Gifts from Ravenloft, Piety from Theros, optional rules from the DMG) are not only still missing from the site, but any communication about progress on those features has grinded to a halt. Scroll down the changelog and it's just small updates and bug fixes - just enough to make it seem like there are things happening behind the scenes, but it's all surface-level. Any indication that there is any real work being done to improve the site has vanished. Combined with comments from WOTC employees directly stating that Chris Cao wants to kill DDB (for reasons best known to him), and it paints a picture of a platform that's on its deathbed.
All I was saying was that I don't see the point in resubscribing to a platform whose future seems actively threatened. If I see a change in the leadership, or active development of new features for the site, then I'll reconsider.
Does it matter? They can release their NEW content under any license they want, or no license at all, right? If they want to try to go it alone and produce all the 6e content themselves, more power to them. Just so long as they don't release under 1.0a to get 1000s of independent content producers working on their stuff, and then try to yank the rug out from under all of them when they have "enough" material and are looking for something else. Because that would be despicable, legally dubious and really, really dumb. Amiright?
The other thing to consider is what will happen on dndbeyond when OneDND is released.
Will it be updated to only support OneDND, thus we lose all our existing 5E content?
We won't know these things until next year.
yea thats my other big concern. Would they "branch" the sheet system because not matter WHAT talking heads have said on video, this shit is NOT backwards compatible with existing characters. So if for some reason I was able to come back in 3 years time, would I be able to make a character that replicates my existing ones? I rather doubt it tbh and thats another no bueno for me bro.
Your only hope is to find an in-person game, or an online game that is not based on this electronic portal. Bottom line, if all your source material, like the PHB and DMG, are based on this site, and you have paid for it, it is likely (not certain) that you will have access to it as a "legacy" system. Other option is to have hard copies of 5e and play on another VTT. But if you have not paid for any material on this site, and use the base 5e SRD material provided for free....well, who knows.....
Oh no.. I am was already on the road to bouncing with my two groups (one IRL and one foundryvtt) sole access to dndbeyond material BEFORE this stuff came down. Like I played another beginner box for my IRL group 4 months ago. I was pretty much set on finishing up what I was playing when this shit happened and I was gonna GM something else. This just hastened my decision to NEVER pay Hasbro another dime of my money and dump a game I don't enjoy because it's not balanced and they don't seem to care about trying to balance it. If for any reason I ever play anything with the D&D logo on it in my life, it will be D&D 4e and Ill just have to use my existing books(which are a decent number of them).
And again, why in the hell would they scrap an existing system that is already functional and already is able to tie in with existing VTT's?
Because they don't want us using existing VTTs. They want us to use theirs. Why that means killing DDB is beyond me, since you could just integrate the two, but that seems to be the direction the current management is going. Sure, as players of the game and DDB users we look at that and say it makes no sense, just like how the whole community looked at all the OGL stuff WOTC tried to pull and said it made no sense. That's the point I was trying to make: the people in charge of our game are out of touch corporate thinkers who don't care about improving the game experience and are only concerned with their bottom line. And they, for whatever reason, believe this is the best way to make their bottom line better.
Not to speculate on things I know nothing about based on little more than rumor than I've heard 8th hand... buuuuuuut... DnD beyond offers 3 things to the player community. 1) easy to parse reference materials for those who don't like physical ones, or prefer up-to date erratta'd materials. 2) A powerful character generation sheet and an assortment of GM tools allowing a person to integrate those things into a game, and 3) extremely limited access to 3rd party "homebrew" content. Perhaps tools related to hombrewing your own content. I'm not sure.
So, without speculating beyond my ken, the reason someone might see the current version of DDB as incompatible with a "videogame like" VTT system is if they saw those features as redundant. For instance, if turn based combat was handled by a 3d engine, there would be little need for tools like the current GM tools suite (that I have never used and do not know anything about.)
I still have a few months of my last subscription left, after I canceled. In the meantime I will wait and see what Hasbro/WotC does next, because corporate greed is even more disgusting when I myself is on a tight budget for the nest few years.
But the apology that was given on twatter is at least a relief.
And again, why in the hell would they scrap an existing system that is already functional and already is able to tie in with existing VTT's?
Because they don't want us using existing VTTs. They want us to use theirs. Why that means killing DDB is beyond me, since you could just integrate the two, but that seems to be the direction the current management is going. Sure, as players of the game and DDB users we look at that and say it makes no sense, just like how the whole community looked at all the OGL stuff WOTC tried to pull and said it made no sense. That's the point I was trying to make: the people in charge of our game are out of touch corporate thinkers who don't care about improving the game experience and are only concerned with their bottom line. And they, for whatever reason, believe this is the best way to make their bottom line better.
Not to speculate on things I know nothing about based on little more than rumor than I've heard 8th hand... buuuuuuut... DnD beyond offers 3 things to the player community. 1) easy to parse reference materials for those who don't like physical ones, or prefer up-to date erratta'd materials. 2) A powerful character generation sheet and an assortment of GM tools allowing a person to integrate those things into a game, and 3) extremely limited access to 3rd party "homebrew" content. Perhaps tools related to hombrewing your own content. I'm not sure.
So, without speculating beyond my ken, the reason someone might see the current version of DDB as incompatible with a "videogame like" VTT system is if they saw those features as redundant. For instance, if turn based combat was handled by a 3d engine, there would be little need for tools like the current GM tools suite (that I have never used and do not know anything about.)
My guess is that whatever VTT DnD come up with it will be based off the same engine that runs DnD beyond with API calls interpreting between the 2. That way you character sheet, all the rules and the monster stats etc you own will be available in the VTT and, when there is a new release, the developers only need to enact the rules for that release in one place. It avoids the usual bugs you get when you try and do the same thing in code in 2 different applications and wonder why they each round differently.
I said “probably” & have many months until it comes up. I am waiting because I want to see the good will continues. Seeing older versions placed into CC as well would go a long way. Keeping the promise that oneDnD will be backwards compatible (for both adventures and character creation) will go further as that keeps the status quo through 6e.
What I really want to see is more SRD content - I.e artificer class & the ^names^ of every subclass, feats, ancestry, monsters, and spells. (I don’t expect the descriptions - just the names so we can refer to them. Although, I wish they would put all the spells out there so we can get proper spell cards.)
I said “probably” & have many months until it comes up. I am waiting because I want to see the good will continues. Seeing older versions placed into CC as well would go a long way. Keeping the promise that oneDnD will be backwards compatible (for both adventures and character creation) will go further as that keeps the status quo through 6e.
What I really want to see is more SRD content - I.e artificer class & the ^names^ of every subclass, feats, ancestry, monsters, and spells. (I don’t expect the descriptions - just the names so we can refer to them. Although, I wish they would put all the spells out there so we can get proper spell cards.)
From my understanding, CC is horrible for them. OGL explicitly has callouts to protect product identity stuff, while CC is "all or nothing" type of license. Frankly, I can't believe they did not just plain goof in not understanding how CC works.
I will echo your comment, GODS I wish they would put 4e under the OGL so that third parties could potentially develop and/or fix it. There are still plenty of people who prefer it as a system but can't LEGALLY do much with it because of it's crappy GSL license and it's not like it would take a large chunk of their sales if they were to release it and let others fix what they left to die. The thing is there is no upside for them since it would require time and money for Hasbro to do the work to release under OGL and the only upside for them would be good will.
I'm definitely on the same page of 'probably' and 'wait and see' - mostly because I want to see what my favorite 3rd Party Publishers do with the news. I assume the CC SRD 5.1 is basically all around good news for future 5e content, but there seem to be a lot of 3pp who are abandoning D&D now. So, I don't know what to think.
My subscription runs through July, and I've already cancelled. I will probably re-up my subscription if 3pp like Dungeon Dudes, Griffon's Saddlebag, Critical Role continue to announce that they are making 5e compatible content for the near-term future. But we'll see.
WotC has a long road ahead to earn back my trust, and I'll be watching closely how the OneD&D licensing works out, and how many 5e 3pp sign on.
I got pulled into 5e after about a 10 year hiatus of Roleplaying. 5e was very fun and I had a blast. After the last couple of years, however, the books have gotten very lazy and are just cash grab books.
Instead of buying new books for 5e, we have started collecting 2e books (As well as direct competitors) and have since started playing Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. I doubt 5e will get any better so I'll see if OneDnD pulls me back to the current edition. From what I've seen from Unearthed Arcana, I doubt it.
I foresee OneDnD will have the same "success" that 4e did. Maybe in 5ish years, I'll see how they plan to get customers back.
You know I'm in an interesting spot. There have been two times I WOULD have bought and started running 5e and probably even subscribed with a paid subscription.First was the release of Spelljammer but the reviews were so bad and when I purused the material I saw they were right so I didn't buy into 5e then. Then a friend of mine really wanted to do the Innistrad or Ravenloft worlds and suggested I run 5e a few weeks ago since those campaigns were written for it. That was smack dab in the middle of the OGL drama so I flat out refused. Because of this refusal we did some research on a different system and we found one that fit what we wanted to do way better than 5e ever would (Zweihander).
Now it's too late. I imagine at this point DMs like me are in the minority (after 8ish years you've either started with 5e or are doing another system) but it's still lost business. For the record even if I hadn't paid for and commited to this new system this wouldn't make me decide it's time to start spending money on 5e with all this crap. I can't believe I'm unique in that regard.
You know that you can still play D&D, even if WotC ****s up, right? They aren't going to break down your door and demand you to hand over your 5e books.
Did you read anything I wrote? I have no D&D books for 5e. I might have bought some if they had put any effort into making Spelljammer not suck or had this OGL drama blow up. Now I've gone to another system and they've pretty much lost me. I bring this up to point out there are probably some (who knows how many) potential customers they've lost because of all this.
is there anybody still upset who paid an annual subscription and would like to share content? - I do have several books but I'm running some games that I don't have here on dndbeyond :P (Storm King's Thunder)
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As my group is on a hiatus for a while (unrelated to the OGL), I'm just going to keep watching and seeing if the good news holds.
After a couple of months depending on when the new campaign starts, I'll consider resubbing then.
One DnD can't have it's own SRD or OGL because it is not a new system, this is not 3rd to 4th or 4th to 5th, it is 5.5 a reskin not new mechanics.
If they did now make One DnD so it was an entire new system then, all those 3rd party content creators would simply continue making 5th edition material and you would get what happened with Pathfinder all over again, only this time Wizards main competitor would be it's own system and rules.
I think you need to understand how what they have done works. If One DnD continues to be as presented in the play test material then it must still be covered by the same SRD and OGL, because it is based off of 5th edition, a reskin not an entire new game system. If it is backwards compatible then any changes to the skin simply get applied to the current SRD.
If wizards did decide to go off and make a new edition with a new OGL, what they have just done means that content creators can still just keep making 5th edition material and could even publish a version of the players handbook etc to ensure that new players have access to the base rules. Wizards have created a situation whereby any attempt to get rid of 5th edition and "control" a new edition, instantly just makes a new Pathfinder they have to compete against.
This is no real victory. A new, stronger OGL would have meant we would be pretty much guaranteed that the new SRD for the new edition in ‘24 would be released under that same OGL. Now, lord knows what kind of Draconic 🐶💩 we’ll get for the next edition. As a 3PP, this makes me very nervous. People should stop looking to the past and instead look to the future.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I don't think I'll be renewing until Cao is removed. It's obvious, after watching the DnD Shorts video with the employee leaks, that the direction he wants to take DnD is fundamentally incompatible with what I want from it, and I don't for a second believe that this little fiasco has really caused him or anyone in the exec offices at WotC to have a genuine change of heart.
yea thats my other big concern. Would they "branch" the sheet system because not matter WHAT talking heads have said on video, this shit is NOT backwards compatible with existing characters. So if for some reason I was able to come back in 3 years time, would I be able to make a character that replicates my existing ones? I rather doubt it tbh and thats another no bueno for me bro.
They’ll probably just “archive” the existing stuff.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
The management team that just trashed their own community, stock price, and reputation? You're right, they make good, rational decisions and we should blindly trust that they'll do what we think is best for the future of the game and this platform.
Or we can look at what's been going on. Since WOTC took over DDB, there have been no major improvements or updates to the site. Things that were in the works before (shared party inventory, item trading between players in a campaign, Dark Gifts from Ravenloft, Piety from Theros, optional rules from the DMG) are not only still missing from the site, but any communication about progress on those features has grinded to a halt. Scroll down the changelog and it's just small updates and bug fixes - just enough to make it seem like there are things happening behind the scenes, but it's all surface-level. Any indication that there is any real work being done to improve the site has vanished. Combined with comments from WOTC employees directly stating that Chris Cao wants to kill DDB (for reasons best known to him), and it paints a picture of a platform that's on its deathbed.
All I was saying was that I don't see the point in resubscribing to a platform whose future seems actively threatened. If I see a change in the leadership, or active development of new features for the site, then I'll reconsider.
Oh no.. I am was already on the road to bouncing with my two groups (one IRL and one foundryvtt) sole access to dndbeyond material BEFORE this stuff came down. Like I played another beginner box for my IRL group 4 months ago. I was pretty much set on finishing up what I was playing when this shit happened and I was gonna GM something else. This just hastened my decision to NEVER pay Hasbro another dime of my money and dump a game I don't enjoy because it's not balanced and they don't seem to care about trying to balance it. If for any reason I ever play anything with the D&D logo on it in my life, it will be D&D 4e and Ill just have to use my existing books(which are a decent number of them).
Not to speculate on things I know nothing about based on little more than rumor than I've heard 8th hand... buuuuuuut... DnD beyond offers 3 things to the player community. 1) easy to parse reference materials for those who don't like physical ones, or prefer up-to date erratta'd materials. 2) A powerful character generation sheet and an assortment of GM tools allowing a person to integrate those things into a game, and 3) extremely limited access to 3rd party "homebrew" content. Perhaps tools related to hombrewing your own content. I'm not sure.
So, without speculating beyond my ken, the reason someone might see the current version of DDB as incompatible with a "videogame like" VTT system is if they saw those features as redundant. For instance, if turn based combat was handled by a 3d engine, there would be little need for tools like the current GM tools suite (that I have never used and do not know anything about.)
I still have a few months of my last subscription left, after I canceled.
In the meantime I will wait and see what Hasbro/WotC does next, because corporate greed is even more disgusting when I myself is on a tight budget for the nest few years.
But the apology that was given on twatter is at least a relief.
Yep, I'm back
I Cancelled my Master Tier Subscription January 12th 2023 because of "OGL" 1.1 - Resubscribed 28th of Jan, now the SRD is in CC-BY-4.0
My guess is that whatever VTT DnD come up with it will be based off the same engine that runs DnD beyond with API calls interpreting between the 2. That way you character sheet, all the rules and the monster stats etc you own will be available in the VTT and, when there is a new release, the developers only need to enact the rules for that release in one place. It avoids the usual bugs you get when you try and do the same thing in code in 2 different applications and wonder why they each round differently.
I said “probably” & have many months until it comes up. I am waiting because I want to see the good will continues. Seeing older versions placed into CC as well would go a long way. Keeping the promise that oneDnD will be backwards compatible (for both adventures and character creation) will go further as that keeps the status quo through 6e.
What I really want to see is more SRD content - I.e artificer class & the ^names^ of every subclass, feats, ancestry, monsters, and spells. (I don’t expect the descriptions - just the names so we can refer to them. Although, I wish they would put all the spells out there so we can get proper spell cards.)
From my understanding, CC is horrible for them. OGL explicitly has callouts to protect product identity stuff, while CC is "all or nothing" type of license. Frankly, I can't believe they did not just plain goof in not understanding how CC works.
I will echo your comment, GODS I wish they would put 4e under the OGL so that third parties could potentially develop and/or fix it. There are still plenty of people who prefer it as a system but can't LEGALLY do much with it because of it's crappy GSL license and it's not like it would take a large chunk of their sales if they were to release it and let others fix what they left to die. The thing is there is no upside for them since it would require time and money for Hasbro to do the work to release under OGL and the only upside for them would be good will.
The hypocritical part is the people who burned their things and got all up in the air are back here to see your post.
Those people still had their content.
I'm definitely on the same page of 'probably' and 'wait and see' - mostly because I want to see what my favorite 3rd Party Publishers do with the news. I assume the CC SRD 5.1 is basically all around good news for future 5e content, but there seem to be a lot of 3pp who are abandoning D&D now. So, I don't know what to think.
My subscription runs through July, and I've already cancelled. I will probably re-up my subscription if 3pp like Dungeon Dudes, Griffon's Saddlebag, Critical Role continue to announce that they are making 5e compatible content for the near-term future. But we'll see.
WotC has a long road ahead to earn back my trust, and I'll be watching closely how the OneD&D licensing works out, and how many 5e 3pp sign on.
I got pulled into 5e after about a 10 year hiatus of Roleplaying. 5e was very fun and I had a blast. After the last couple of years, however, the books have gotten very lazy and are just cash grab books.
Instead of buying new books for 5e, we have started collecting 2e books (As well as direct competitors) and have since started playing Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. I doubt 5e will get any better so I'll see if OneDnD pulls me back to the current edition. From what I've seen from Unearthed Arcana, I doubt it.
I foresee OneDnD will have the same "success" that 4e did. Maybe in 5ish years, I'll see how they plan to get customers back.
But you could still play D&D tho . . .
/s
is there anybody still upset who paid an annual subscription and would like to share content? - I do have several books but I'm running some games that I don't have here on dndbeyond :P (Storm King's Thunder)