Oh, and yes, I am resubbing as long as they continue on this path.
I don't think this is the right answer.
D&D Beyond was an interesting thing for the fanbase as a whole to choose because it was the only way to actively show Wizards/Hasbro that they were making a mistake with the OGL. It was the way to show them as a direct thing to their bottom dollar.
....that said, it hasn't changed one ******* thing on this website.
We still aren't getting notices of development beyond the changelog. We still aren't getting new features, except for background feats. A thing that was put in the game almost two years ago. We aren't getting announcements on when things gets removed.
I'll resubscribe when we start to get meaningful discourse again.
I didn't vote in the poll because the options don't relate to me. I am not resubbing, but for far different reasons. The OGL was icing on the cake, but it's not enough to make me come back now that they've caved.
You do have a point. They've really dropped the ball on developing the site since Wizards took over.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." - Starfleet Admiral Aaron Satie
You do have a point. They've really dropped the ball on developing the site since Wizards took over.
No. Theyve dropped the ball since Bradford left.
The toolset was made very rigid, and thats because 5th at the beginning was rigid. Tashas came out and broke the mold. They also didnt have much lead time on tashas. Had OG strixhaven came out? This website never could have supported it.
Without the guy who made it? Things didnt flow the same. Adam being the founder gave him a level of latitude to discuss things. When they sold to fandom, they lost some of that. When he left, now it wasnt run by the creator, but a business who saw it as a data point. The old guard left slowly too. Then Wizards toon over and the communication went from slow to no.
I say it all the time. D&D Beyond is going to be the single biggest reason why One D&D doesnt innovate beyond 5e.
I've reactivated my master tier subscription. Hopefully they don't try to pull a fast one.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
D&D Beyond was an interesting thing for the fanbase as a whole to choose because it was the only way to actively show Wizards/Hasbro that they were making a mistake with the OGL. It was the way to show them as a direct thing to their bottom dollar.
....that said, it hasn't changed one ******* thing on this website.
We still aren't getting notices of development beyond the changelog. We still aren't getting new features, except for background feats. A thing that was put in the game almost two years ago. We aren't getting announcements on when things gets removed.
I'll resubscribe when we start to get meaningful discourse again.
I didn't vote in the poll because the options don't relate to me. I am not resubbing, but for far different reasons. The OGL was icing on the cake, but it's not enough to make me come back now that they've caved.
100% this. The fact that DDB has seen no major progress since WOTC took over is the biggest piece of evidence that supports the idea that Chris Cao wants to kill it. There are features that we were told were in the works back when Adam was still in charge. Not one of them has been delivered yet. I understand that these things are complicated and take time (I still remember the agonizing wait for the Character Sheet Revamp), but without regular communication there's no evidence that any progress is being made. I don't see the point in resubbing or purchasing any new content on a platform that I fear is actively doomed. I'll resub if we see some leadership changes at WOTC and active development on the site again.
I was planning to resub, but after some mod input, I've decided against it. My credit cards aren't compatible with ridiculous arbitrary enforcement of rules. I wish you all the best.
I've reactivated my master tier subscription. Hopefully they don't try to pull a fast one.
We won't know.
It is entirely possible that whatever version number is attached to OneD&D, that it will be released under a license that isn't the CC-BY license that the SRD 5.1 is now available with.
I've reactivated my master tier subscription. Hopefully they don't try to pull a fast one.
We won't know.
It is entirely possible that whatever version number is attached to OneD&D, that it will be released under a license that isn't the CC-BY license that the SRD 5.1 is now available with.
Does it matter? They can release their NEW content under any license they want, or no license at all, right? If they want to try to go it alone and produce all the 6e content themselves, more power to them. Just so long as they don't release under 1.0a to get 1000s of independent content producers working on their stuff, and then try to yank the rug out from under all of them when they have "enough" material and are looking for something else. Because that would be despicable, legally dubious and really, really dumb. Amiright?
To my surprise (and relief) it has been officially stated that the OGL 1.0a will remain untouched. There are videos online explaining it in more detail, but this is the main thing. So, with the good news, who is going to re-subscribe to D&D Beyond and begin purchasing WotC products again?
Bottom line for me: Fire some EXECUTIVEs. Then and only then you might convince me that you(Hasbo) have realized the error of your ways. I somehow don't expect that to happen.
Frankly, I was already looking at other systems because of how bad I think 5e is from a number of levels and have been for perhaps 6 months. This OGL thing and more importantly their response(s) to the crisis(and lack of response) just fueled my anger and desire to never give Hasbro another penny of my money ever again. I have already convinced my online game (where I have all the books shared to via dndbeyond sub) to switch to _____ and I meet my real life group in two weeks(also they use my sub to get access) to try to convince them to switch to ______ (we have already tried out the test rules thingy).
Bottom line, if my IRL group wont switch, well we will keep playing 5e and I will hate it but keep playing, but the players wont get to use any of my books or the character builder anymore so its up to them(one or two of them are kind of luddites anyway so it won't matter to them)
D&D Beyond was an interesting thing for the fanbase as a whole to choose because it was the only way to actively show Wizards/Hasbro that they were making a mistake with the OGL. It was the way to show them as a direct thing to their bottom dollar.
....that said, it hasn't changed one ******* thing on this website.
We still aren't getting notices of development beyond the changelog. We still aren't getting new features, except for background feats. A thing that was put in the game almost two years ago. We aren't getting announcements on when things gets removed.
I'll resubscribe when we start to get meaningful discourse again.
I didn't vote in the poll because the options don't relate to me. I am not resubbing, but for far different reasons. The OGL was icing on the cake, but it's not enough to make me come back now that they've caved.
100% this. The fact that DDB has seen no major progress since WOTC took over is the biggest piece of evidence that supports the idea that Chris Cao wants to kill it. There are features that we were told were in the works back when Adam was still in charge. Not one of them has been delivered yet. I understand that these things are complicated and take time (I still remember the agonizing wait for the Character Sheet Revamp), but without regular communication there's no evidence that any progress is being made. I don't see the point in resubbing or purchasing any new content on a platform that I fear is actively doomed. I'll resub if we see some leadership changes at WOTC and active development on the site again.
The sad thing is, I think Chris Cao REALLY believes us nerds are all the same and that people will want to play video game d&d. I mean I COULD be wrong and he could be right, but frankly, I just don't think so. People who play at a table won't give a flying crap about his 3d tabletop(for the most part.. a few might but thats not most) and people who play online because various reasons just want something easy that gets out of the way. I would never pay a large extra fee for something like the 3d VTT when I have a VTT I already enjoy and it can play well over 100 games at various level of automation.
D&D Beyond was an interesting thing for the fanbase as a whole to choose because it was the only way to actively show Wizards/Hasbro that they were making a mistake with the OGL. It was the way to show them as a direct thing to their bottom dollar.
....that said, it hasn't changed one ******* thing on this website.
We still aren't getting notices of development beyond the changelog. We still aren't getting new features, except for background feats. A thing that was put in the game almost two years ago. We aren't getting announcements on when things gets removed.
I'll resubscribe when we start to get meaningful discourse again.
I didn't vote in the poll because the options don't relate to me. I am not resubbing, but for far different reasons. The OGL was icing on the cake, but it's not enough to make me come back now that they've caved.
100% this. The fact that DDB has seen no major progress since WOTC took over is the biggest piece of evidence that supports the idea that Chris Cao wants to kill it. There are features that we were told were in the works back when Adam was still in charge. Not one of them has been delivered yet. I understand that these things are complicated and take time (I still remember the agonizing wait for the Character Sheet Revamp), but without regular communication there's no evidence that any progress is being made. I don't see the point in resubbing or purchasing any new content on a platform that I fear is actively doomed. I'll resub if we see some leadership changes at WOTC and active development on the site again.
The sad thing is, I think Chris Cao REALLY believes us nerds are all the same and that people will want to play video game d&d. I mean I COULD be wrong and he could be right, but frankly, I just don't think so. People who play at a table won't give a flying crap about his 3d tabletop(for the most part.. a few might but thats not most) and people who play online because various reasons just want something easy that gets out of the way. I would never pay a large extra fee for something like the 3d VTT when I have a VTT I already enjoy and it can play well over 100 games at various level of automation.
It's not a matter of thinking everybody's the same. It's a matter of thinking the DEMAND for a product like this exists. Maybe he's trying to diversify. Probably is. Nerds are ornery crabapples who get worked up over things like IP licenses. If he could capture the Paradox interactive customer base and drag them into "our world" I'm sure he'd be thrilled. They love to pay ridiculous amounts ($15-40) for minor incremental improvements of a product. If you don't like their VTT, don't buy it. You know what might be cool? A MOBA instead of boring dice based combat! Bwahahaha
Point is, don't take it as a personal slight if the "next big thing" isn't specifically targeted at you. That's actually kindof the opposite of thinking that "all nerds" want X.
As I said elsewhere, gonna wait 6 months to see what's happening.
With the investors, namely hedge funds, being the likely cause of the reversal more than fans considering the time table of the reversal and the Alta Fox Capitol's nuclear tweets directed at the CEO and other C-Suites involved. The reversal was the right step that should have never been needed, and as a consumer and a person invested in a portfolio that includes this company, I do want leadership that cares for the brand and are not short sighted trend chasers who want get quick rich schemes.
Does it matter? They can release their NEW content under any license they want, or no license at all, right? If they want to try to go it alone and produce all the 6e content themselves, more power to them. Just so long as they don't release under 1.0a to get 1000s of independent content producers working on their stuff, and then try to yank the rug out from under all of them when they have "enough" material and are looking for something else. Because that would be despicable, legally dubious and really, really dumb. Amiright?
The other thing to consider is what will happen on dndbeyond when OneDND is released.
Will it be updated to only support OneDND, thus we lose all our existing 5E content?
100% this. The fact that DDB has seen no major progress since WOTC took over is the biggest piece of evidence that supports the idea that Chris Cao wants to kill it. There are features that we were told were in the works back when Adam was still in charge. Not one of them has been delivered yet. I understand that these things are complicated and take time (I still remember the agonizing wait for the Character Sheet Revamp), but without regular communication there's no evidence that any progress is being made. I don't see the point in resubbing or purchasing any new content on a platform that I fear is actively doomed. I'll resub if we see some leadership changes at WOTC and active development on the site again.
If they want to kill it, they simply can. And if they want to kill it, they don't want subs back, so why did they give in?
Them giving in had to do with factors beyond just the subscriber count. But subscriptions are money that they can make right here and now, while they get their VTT built. Once that's done, it sounds like the plan is to funnel everyone there and drop DDB. There's no point in killing the site until they have something ready to replace it, but they're actively working on that and not developing anything new for DDB.
Honestly I've opted not resubscribe. Especially after all this. Don't get me wrong, I love D&D 5e. Just not Hasbro and WoTC. I'll continue the play, but going further, they're not getting a single penny from me. It's going to be a huge blow to me if I want to create a new character sheet without it being unlimited, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing the make. Maybe if they removed Chris "I don't need to have played D&D to know what the fans want" Cao, Cynthia "Did I mention worked at Microsoft" Williams, and whoever thought a toy company should focus on making good toys, then I'll think about resubscribing.
And again, why in the hell would they scrap an existing system that is already functional and already is able to tie in with existing VTT's?
Because they don't want us using existing VTTs. They want us to use theirs. Why that means killing DDB is beyond me, since you could just integrate the two, but that seems to be the direction the current management is going. Sure, as players of the game and DDB users we look at that and say it makes no sense, just like how the whole community looked at all the OGL stuff WOTC tried to pull and said it made no sense. That's the point I was trying to make: the people in charge of our game are out of touch corporate thinkers who don't care about improving the game experience and are only concerned with their bottom line. And they, for whatever reason, believe this is the best way to make their bottom line better.
I'm not resubscribing until we get the vow to also give future editions the same treatment as 5e got: SRD in the CC or under OGL 1.0(a)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
I don't think this is the right answer.
D&D Beyond was an interesting thing for the fanbase as a whole to choose because it was the only way to actively show Wizards/Hasbro that they were making a mistake with the OGL. It was the way to show them as a direct thing to their bottom dollar.
....that said, it hasn't changed one ******* thing on this website.
We still aren't getting notices of development beyond the changelog. We still aren't getting new features, except for background feats. A thing that was put in the game almost two years ago. We aren't getting announcements on when things gets removed.
I'll resubscribe when we start to get meaningful discourse again.
I didn't vote in the poll because the options don't relate to me. I am not resubbing, but for far different reasons. The OGL was icing on the cake, but it's not enough to make me come back now that they've caved.
You do have a point. They've really dropped the ball on developing the site since Wizards took over.
“With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." - Starfleet Admiral Aaron SatieNo. Theyve dropped the ball since Bradford left.
The toolset was made very rigid, and thats because 5th at the beginning was rigid. Tashas came out and broke the mold. They also didnt have much lead time on tashas. Had OG strixhaven came out? This website never could have supported it.
Without the guy who made it? Things didnt flow the same. Adam being the founder gave him a level of latitude to discuss things. When they sold to fandom, they lost some of that. When he left, now it wasnt run by the creator, but a business who saw it as a data point. The old guard left slowly too. Then Wizards toon over and the communication went from slow to no.
I say it all the time. D&D Beyond is going to be the single biggest reason why One D&D doesnt innovate beyond 5e.
I've reactivated my master tier subscription. Hopefully they don't try to pull a fast one.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
100% this. The fact that DDB has seen no major progress since WOTC took over is the biggest piece of evidence that supports the idea that Chris Cao wants to kill it. There are features that we were told were in the works back when Adam was still in charge. Not one of them has been delivered yet. I understand that these things are complicated and take time (I still remember the agonizing wait for the Character Sheet Revamp), but without regular communication there's no evidence that any progress is being made. I don't see the point in resubbing or purchasing any new content on a platform that I fear is actively doomed. I'll resub if we see some leadership changes at WOTC and active development on the site again.
+1
We won't know.
It is entirely possible that whatever version number is attached to OneD&D, that it will be released under a license that isn't the CC-BY license that the SRD 5.1 is now available with.
Does it matter? They can release their NEW content under any license they want, or no license at all, right? If they want to try to go it alone and produce all the 6e content themselves, more power to them. Just so long as they don't release under 1.0a to get 1000s of independent content producers working on their stuff, and then try to yank the rug out from under all of them when they have "enough" material and are looking for something else. Because that would be despicable, legally dubious and really, really dumb. Amiright?
I've still got 7 months or so before I have to pay again so I can afford to wait and see after the dust settles
Wizards of the Coast Feedback/Support
https://support.wizards.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
We did not win. It wasn't and isn't a competition. Money won, and it always does.
"I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members."
Bottom line for me: Fire some EXECUTIVEs. Then and only then you might convince me that you(Hasbo) have realized the error of your ways. I somehow don't expect that to happen.
Frankly, I was already looking at other systems because of how bad I think 5e is from a number of levels and have been for perhaps 6 months. This OGL thing and more importantly their response(s) to the crisis(and lack of response) just fueled my anger and desire to never give Hasbro another penny of my money ever again. I have already convinced my online game (where I have all the books shared to via dndbeyond sub) to switch to _____ and I meet my real life group in two weeks(also they use my sub to get access) to try to convince them to switch to ______ (we have already tried out the test rules thingy).
Bottom line, if my IRL group wont switch, well we will keep playing 5e and I will hate it but keep playing, but the players wont get to use any of my books or the character builder anymore so its up to them(one or two of them are kind of luddites anyway so it won't matter to them)
The sad thing is, I think Chris Cao REALLY believes us nerds are all the same and that people will want to play video game d&d. I mean I COULD be wrong and he could be right, but frankly, I just don't think so. People who play at a table won't give a flying crap about his 3d tabletop(for the most part.. a few might but thats not most) and people who play online because various reasons just want something easy that gets out of the way. I would never pay a large extra fee for something like the 3d VTT when I have a VTT I already enjoy and it can play well over 100 games at various level of automation.
It's not a matter of thinking everybody's the same. It's a matter of thinking the DEMAND for a product like this exists. Maybe he's trying to diversify. Probably is. Nerds are ornery crabapples who get worked up over things like IP licenses. If he could capture the Paradox interactive customer base and drag them into "our world" I'm sure he'd be thrilled. They love to pay ridiculous amounts ($15-40) for minor incremental improvements of a product. If you don't like their VTT, don't buy it. You know what might be cool? A MOBA instead of boring dice based combat! Bwahahaha
Point is, don't take it as a personal slight if the "next big thing" isn't specifically targeted at you. That's actually kindof the opposite of thinking that "all nerds" want X.
As I said elsewhere, gonna wait 6 months to see what's happening.
With the investors, namely hedge funds, being the likely cause of the reversal more than fans considering the time table of the reversal and the Alta Fox Capitol's nuclear tweets directed at the CEO and other C-Suites involved. The reversal was the right step that should have never been needed, and as a consumer and a person invested in a portfolio that includes this company, I do want leadership that cares for the brand and are not short sighted trend chasers who want get quick rich schemes.
The other thing to consider is what will happen on dndbeyond when OneDND is released.
Will it be updated to only support OneDND, thus we lose all our existing 5E content?
We won't know these things until next year.
Them giving in had to do with factors beyond just the subscriber count. But subscriptions are money that they can make right here and now, while they get their VTT built. Once that's done, it sounds like the plan is to funnel everyone there and drop DDB. There's no point in killing the site until they have something ready to replace it, but they're actively working on that and not developing anything new for DDB.
Honestly I've opted not resubscribe. Especially after all this. Don't get me wrong, I love D&D 5e. Just not Hasbro and WoTC. I'll continue the play, but going further, they're not getting a single penny from me. It's going to be a huge blow to me if I want to create a new character sheet without it being unlimited, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing the make. Maybe if they removed Chris "I don't need to have played D&D to know what the fans want" Cao, Cynthia "Did I mention worked at Microsoft" Williams, and whoever thought a toy company should focus on making good toys, then I'll think about resubscribing.
Because they don't want us using existing VTTs. They want us to use theirs. Why that means killing DDB is beyond me, since you could just integrate the two, but that seems to be the direction the current management is going. Sure, as players of the game and DDB users we look at that and say it makes no sense, just like how the whole community looked at all the OGL stuff WOTC tried to pull and said it made no sense. That's the point I was trying to make: the people in charge of our game are out of touch corporate thinkers who don't care about improving the game experience and are only concerned with their bottom line. And they, for whatever reason, believe this is the best way to make their bottom line better.
I'm not resubscribing until we get the vow to also give future editions the same treatment as 5e got: SRD in the CC or under OGL 1.0(a)
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
#OpenDnD
DDB is great, but it could be better. Here are some things I think could improve DDB
Welp, good luck with that
[REDACTED]