The granularization of the poll is a little off, dividing values that'll appear to be less than what is valid.
At the time of this reply:
The first two options are both variations of "Yes. I'll be subscribed." (40.6%)
The fourth option is the only "No." (25.9%)
The remaining two are both variations of "Maybe." (33.5%)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
There is a lot about AD&D that I love, but there are also reasons why 2e wasn't a total flop. The only arguable backwards steps have been 3.0 and 4.0
I still have 1e books on my shelf. The idea that it's a "vastly superior game" to 5e is absolutely laughable. As a system of rules, it's held together by chewing gum and blind faith
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I'm a maybe, but not because I'm still digging into the news. I have kept up with this on the daily. I'm a maybe because years of goodwill and trust were wiped off the board and I have a very hard time not foreseeing a future where they don't quietly change things again.
Probably not since D&D Beyond's now buggier than ass and unusable at best. Can't even load the home page without getting the zombie beholder and it saying "Please come back after a Short Rest".
I don't even know if this comment will post honestly, I'm expecting it to start posting, the site to crash (again), and the comment going into the aether where it will nver be seen again.
Probably not since D&D Beyond's now buggier than ass and unusable at best. Can't even load the home page without getting the zombie beholder and it saying "Please come back after a Short Rest".
I don't even know if this comment will post honestly, I'm expecting it to start posting, the site to crash (again), and the comment going into the aether where it will nver be seen again.
I mean this seems to be personal experience myself and my players have never had any issues with the site or any of its features. You possibly need to look at your internet or wofi connection, the browser you are using or what extensions or other hidden programmers you are running as I think general consensus around the 50-60 people I know who use it is that it works fine all of the time.
There is a lot about AD&D that I love, but there are also reasons why 2e wasn't a total flop. The only arguable backwards steps have been 3.0 and 4.0
I still have 1e books on my shelf. The idea that it's a "vastly superior game" to 5e is absolutely laughable. As a system of rules, it's held together by chewing gum and blind faith
To use someone else's analogy, I like my D&D to be more Motörhead and less Maroon 5.
5th Edition is a good system. But making the game safe, polished, and mainstreamed, has, in my honest opinion, drained it of much of what made D&D D&D in the 70s and the 80s and the early 90s.
Much like some of the greatest albums of all time sound "held together by chewing gum and blind faith," earlier editions of D&D, with their fewer options but with them arguably more room for negotiation at the table or for the stretching of classes beyond their limitations by way of imagination instead of giving them too much too soon and making them into superheroes much too soon, felt dangerous. They were esoteric and even heretical.
It really comes down to what our groups are looking for in a game. But there is a charm to AD&D (both 1st and 2nd) and even to its needless complexity that is always going to appeal to some of us older players—not just for reasons of nostalgia—and even to some of the newer ones: every day some youthful YouTuber is singing the praises of old-school D&D and that ain't nothing laughable.
You can still get that with 5th edition, there are loads of 3rd party products that add in elements to make it more like those older systems. For me, if I wanted a system that ran differently to 5th edition then I would use an entirely different system. I have a friend who runs a game using “powered by the apocalypse” mechanics in the forgotten realms. He has had beholders, mind flayers etc all in game he just ports the monster stats into the alternative system, or finds examples online of people who already have.
I think the one thing this whole OGL thing has opened up is a realization that instead of wishing DnD was something different there are loads of systems out there and one of them will give you what your looking for.
You haven’t ’won’ anything and this is exactly what they are expecting you to do.
Yes. This GAME company is in some massive conspiracy to... do what, exactly?
Do what every other business in the world wants to do - make money.
How exactly would you expect a company to behave? They exist to make profit...otherwise they wouldn't be a company. If they sold off D&D to another company, that company would also try to...guess what, make money?
Unless you know of a benevolent billionaire with a passion for D&D and the means to financially support a 150 million dollar a year endeavor, D&D will always be run by a corporation, and that corporation will always...try to make money
You haven’t ’won’ anything and this is exactly what they are expecting you to do.
Yes. This GAME company is in some massive conspiracy to... do what, exactly?
Do what every other business in the world wants to do - make money.
I agree that the company is no longer in something that could be regarded as a conspiracy.
I also agree that, in business, they are out for the money. They also need to look after their present and future developers but have a clear focus on regaining their appeal to the market.
You haven’t ’won’ anything and this is exactly what they are expecting you to do.
Yes. This GAME company is in some massive conspiracy to... do what, exactly?
Do what every other business in the world wants to do - make money.
How exactly would you expect a company to behave? They exist to make profit...otherwise they wouldn't be a company. If they sold off D&D to another company, that company would also try to...guess what, make money?
Unless you know of a benevolent billionaire with a passion for D&D and the means to financially support a 150 million dollar a year endeavor, D&D will always be run by a corporation, and that corporation will always...try to make money
I would argue if I was a wealthy billionaire then I might buy wizards, I might even not run it to make a profit personally, but, I would still want it to run at a profit so I could reinvest that profit back into expanding the workforce, paying better salaries and giving better benefits. I would also ensure i protected the IP in the best way I could, and yes, I would involve the community and be a good responsible citizen of the DnD community, but, I wouldn’t just give it all away.
DnD made a mistake, I think partly thinking they could treat the SRD as if it was the same as code that a game developer makes available to anyone to use, but charges royalties if the game you make is a massive successs. On paper that approach is perfectly valid, but, there were always multiple reasons it doesn’t work when applied to the SRD. The company have accepted the mistake, made amends to the community by putting the SRD in the Creative Commons, and are moving forwards. I feel that is what the community should also do, while being aware and keeping an eye out for future mistakes.
Unless you know of a benevolent billionaire with a passion for D&D and the means to financially support a 150 million dollar a year endeavor, D&D will always be run by a corporation, and that corporation will always...try to make money
And if someone like that did exist, you might discover that you didn't much like the result. As a profit-oriented company, D&D actually has to be responsive to its customers. Some billionaire's pet project has no such requirement.
You haven’t ’won’ anything and this is exactly what they are expecting you to do.
Yes. This GAME company is in some massive conspiracy to... do what, exactly?
Do what every other business in the world wants to do - make money.
So, how dare a group do something productive with their lives to support their families when they should be slaving away for nothing to entertain you?
The fiends....
Yes we're all glad that particularly the current, core group of creators at WotC are able to support their families but, in honesty, the majority of the results of their efforts goes to Hasbro investors.
None-the-less, I'm heartened with the concern for the welfare of those there doing something productive with their lives. It's an old video but with topic relevant comments from 11:45.
You haven’t ’won’ anything and this is exactly what they are expecting you to do.
Yes. This GAME company is in some massive conspiracy to... do what, exactly?
Do what every other business in the world wants to do - make money.
So, how dare a group do something productive with their lives to support their families when they should be slaving away for nothing to entertain you?
The fiends....
Yes we're all glad that particularly the current, core group of creators at WotC are able to support their families but, in honesty, the majority of the results of their efforts goes to Hasbro investors.
None-the-less, I'm heartened with the concern for the welfare of those there doing something productive with their lives. It's an old video but with topic relevant comments from 11:45.
Because Hasbro investors are soulless non-humans who most definitely have no families?
But I am really curious where you are getting this 51% profit margin from, after taxes, yet... That would be pretty amazing.... if true. Also completely bizarre that a company so massively profitable would be suffering a fairly constant drop in share prices over the last several years.
Personally when I looked at last year's financials, which are publicly available, by the way, I saw no evidence of such. However I am sure you can easily point out this information?
Really skeptical that DnDShorts has done any such research either. There is not a single direct Chris Cao quote in that video, just a lot of "He thinks this." Attempting to sell more cosmetic stuff, which is about as discretionary as it gets, is spun as some sort of bad thing. They even say that hard cover books will still be available, but frankly, this isn't 1980 or even 1990 any more. The world IS online and playing digitally is massively beneficial.
Oh and as for 'Shutting down D&D Beyond?' It is THEIRS. They OWN it. If they wanted to shut it down, they would simply shut it down. Edit: And spend the money to develop their own D&D Beyond equivalent when they already have D&D Beyond? Why? You claim this is all being done at the behest of the investors yet also insist they are messing investors over by reinventing the wheel..... because reasons?
We are all soulless. Well, at least there's no evidence to substantiate another view.
But, yes, within our fleeting and temporary contexts, many people have families.
In regard to our personal financials, we also typically have disposable incomes and its these that give us many options by which various groups and a great many sets of families can be supported.
But your point was about people doing "something productive with their lives" and, for the gaming community, that brings the focus back to game creators.
As far as WotC is concerned, my guess is that the new climate will make these creators more essential than ever - and I say good luck to them. Many gaming consumers are becoming more aware of the breadth of options available to them and WotC will face a greater need for their creators to produce good and competitive products.
I haven't mentioned profit margins but fair comment on the "financials". Seems you have little need to worry about the producers of WotC's games.
I'd really appreciate it if people could reply to the things that the other person has said.
If we are going to get into who the investors are, you may well find pension funds, insurance funds, charity investments are all part of that soup of people invested in the funds invested in Hasbro and therefore invested in Wizards.
Let’s be honest here if you are against the big corporation then why are you playing DnD in the first place, why are you buying apple products, or Samsung. Or Microsoft. Go out support a small TTRPG kickstarter, help other game designers that are not Wizards or Paizo.
I find it amusing how many have come out crying that the OGL fiasco is an affront to humanity when they wear Nike shoes stitched in china. Or buy cloths from companies that use child workers in India.
In the grand scheme of things Wizards are not some big evil organisation. They made a mistake, people are allowed to, and they resolved it. There is no great conspiracy here and as a company they are far far more socially responsible then most.
So, how dare a group do something productive with their lives to support their families when they should be slaving away for nothing to entertain you?
The fiends....
Yes we're all glad that particularly the current, core group of creators at WotC are able to support their families but, in honesty, the majority of the results of their efforts goes to Hasbro investors.
None-the-less, I'm heartened with the concern for the welfare of those there doing something productive with their lives. It's an old video but with topic relevant comments from 11:45.
Because Hasbro investors are soulless non-humans who most definitely have no families?
We are all soulless. Well, at least there's no evidence to substantiate another view.
But, yes, within our fleeting and temporary contexts, many people have families.
In regard to our personal financials, we also typically have disposable incomes and its these that give us many options by which various groups and a great many sets of families can be supported.
But your point was about people doing "something productive with their lives" and, for the gaming community, that brings the focus back to game creators.
As far as WotC is concerned, my guess is that the new climate will make these creators more essential than ever - and I say good luck to them. Many gaming consumers are becoming more aware of the breadth of options available to them and WotC will face a greater need for their creators to produce good and competitive products.
I haven't mentioned profit margins but fair comment on the "financials". Seems you have little need to worry about the producers of WotC's games.
I'd really appreciate it if people could reply to the things that the other person has said.
Now you are implying that all fellow humans do not matter. "Fleeting and temporary contexts?" But pardon, the only relevance to "but, in honesty, the majority of the results of their efforts goes to Hasbro investors" would be if they were somehow less worthy than others.
"by which various groups and a great many sets of families can be supported." - So, you really do seem to see all of this as some sort of charitable effort rather than buying a product as a consumer. Interesting view, especially considering there is a product being purchased. If you feel their products are not 'good and competitive,' buy whatever you think is better and more competitive instead.
When you say that you believe the majority of the money goes to investors, you are talking about net income and profit margins. Investors only gain any percentage of revenue by way of dividends, which can only come from net earnings after taxes. Fair enough that you likely have no accounting training and thus likely did not understand that, however, now you are informed.
No, I was fairly replying to your rhetoric, for which you deleted the reference. (Seems like a habit around here).
Hey, and sorry but the world is old. In fact, there is plenty of evidence that it's around 4.6 billion years old, lots more than the 6,000 years that fits less ancient religious claims. I'm sorry if you find it difficult to rationalise a context from this that we are relatively "fleeting and temporary" but, schucks, that's how it is. If you want reassurance, yes, for at least the 70-80 ish years that your biological form remains functioning on this world of vast geological time, yes you matter. So does everyone else, equally, as soulless beings who are hopefully trying to live with all the ~heart that we have. And as Darwin said, there is grandeur in this view of life.
Facts remain that our "disposable incomes ... give us many options by which various groups and a great many sets of families can be supported." You have your choice. You are free to do with your money as you please. But in a view of care for families, I hope we can further consider the relative value of actual charitable efforts perhaps to help the registered charities in whichever country in which you reside.
"Fair enough that you likely have no accounting training and thus likely did not understand that"* much of the investment in Hasbro is done in schemes in which risk is spread. We could put our disposable income towards Hasbro. We equally could put it in a different direction. For the majority of investors, on net, it wouldn't matter.
As for me, I don't currently envision me putting yet more personal investment into a company that has acted as deplorably as WotC.
My fair reference that "WotC will face a greater need for their creators to produce good and competitive products" meant exactly as it said and I think, from this, there is an argument that the creators' jobs (and family finances) are secure. Please don't go adding your own spins on peoples' words. Please.
*sorry to mirror your same, in my view, condescending rhetoric but my hope is that, through experiences like this, you will do better.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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The granularization of the poll is a little off, dividing values that'll appear to be less than what is valid.
At the time of this reply:
The first two options are both variations of "Yes. I'll be subscribed." (40.6%)
The fourth option is the only "No." (25.9%)
The remaining two are both variations of "Maybe." (33.5%)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I still have 1e books on my shelf. The idea that it's a "vastly superior game" to 5e is absolutely laughable. As a system of rules, it's held together by chewing gum and blind faith
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Same.
I'm a maybe, but not because I'm still digging into the news. I have kept up with this on the daily. I'm a maybe because years of goodwill and trust were wiped off the board and I have a very hard time not foreseeing a future where they don't quietly change things again.
Probably not since D&D Beyond's now buggier than ass and unusable at best. Can't even load the home page without getting the zombie beholder and it saying "Please come back after a Short Rest".
I don't even know if this comment will post honestly, I'm expecting it to start posting, the site to crash (again), and the comment going into the aether where it will nver be seen again.
You left out the option of "I wasn't subscribed in the first place". I use DDB for digital books, not to run campaigns.
+1. I don't really use DDB for its intended purpose at all. I'm just here for the forums lol
[REDACTED]
I mean this seems to be personal experience myself and my players have never had any issues with the site or any of its features. You possibly need to look at your internet or wofi connection, the browser you are using or what extensions or other hidden programmers you are running as I think general consensus around the 50-60 people I know who use it is that it works fine all of the time.
You can still get that with 5th edition, there are loads of 3rd party products that add in elements to make it more like those older systems. For me, if I wanted a system that ran differently to 5th edition then I would use an entirely different system. I have a friend who runs a game using “powered by the apocalypse” mechanics in the forgotten realms. He has had beholders, mind flayers etc all in game he just ports the monster stats into the alternative system, or finds examples online of people who already have.
I think the one thing this whole OGL thing has opened up is a realization that instead of wishing DnD was something different there are loads of systems out there and one of them will give you what your looking for.
You haven’t ’won’ anything and this is exactly what they are expecting you to do.
Do what every other business in the world wants to do - make money.
In what way is that a conspiracy?
How exactly would you expect a company to behave? They exist to make profit...otherwise they wouldn't be a company. If they sold off D&D to another company, that company would also try to...guess what, make money?
Unless you know of a benevolent billionaire with a passion for D&D and the means to financially support a 150 million dollar a year endeavor, D&D will always be run by a corporation, and that corporation will always...try to make money
I agree that the company is no longer in something that could be regarded as a conspiracy.
I also agree that, in business, they are out for the money. They also need to look after their present and future developers but have a clear focus on regaining their appeal to the market.
I would argue if I was a wealthy billionaire then I might buy wizards, I might even not run it to make a profit personally, but, I would still want it to run at a profit so I could reinvest that profit back into expanding the workforce, paying better salaries and giving better benefits. I would also ensure i protected the IP in the best way I could, and yes, I would involve the community and be a good responsible citizen of the DnD community, but, I wouldn’t just give it all away.
DnD made a mistake, I think partly thinking they could treat the SRD as if it was the same as code that a game developer makes available to anyone to use, but charges royalties if the game you make is a massive successs. On paper that approach is perfectly valid, but, there were always multiple reasons it doesn’t work when applied to the SRD. The company have accepted the mistake, made amends to the community by putting the SRD in the Creative Commons, and are moving forwards. I feel that is what the community should also do, while being aware and keeping an eye out for future mistakes.
And if someone like that did exist, you might discover that you didn't much like the result. As a profit-oriented company, D&D actually has to be responsive to its customers. Some billionaire's pet project has no such requirement.
Kindly point out a post by me where I said it was…
Yes we're all glad that particularly the current, core group of creators at WotC are able to support their families but, in honesty, the majority of the results of their efforts goes to Hasbro investors.
None-the-less, I'm heartened with the concern for the welfare of those there doing something productive with their lives. It's an old video but with topic relevant comments from 11:45.
We are all soulless. Well, at least there's no evidence to substantiate another view.
But, yes, within our fleeting and temporary contexts, many people have families.
In regard to our personal financials, we also typically have disposable incomes and its these that give us many options by which various groups and a great many sets of families can be supported.
But your point was about people doing "something productive with their lives" and, for the gaming community, that brings the focus back to game creators.
As far as WotC is concerned, my guess is that the new climate will make these creators more essential than ever - and I say good luck to them. Many gaming consumers are becoming more aware of the breadth of options available to them and WotC will face a greater need for their creators to produce good and competitive products.
I haven't mentioned profit margins but fair comment on the "financials". Seems you have little need to worry about the producers of WotC's games.
I'd really appreciate it if people could reply to the things that the other person has said.
If we are going to get into who the investors are, you may well find pension funds, insurance funds, charity investments are all part of that soup of people invested in the funds invested in Hasbro and therefore invested in Wizards.
Let’s be honest here if you are against the big corporation then why are you playing DnD in the first place, why are you buying apple products, or Samsung. Or Microsoft. Go out support a small TTRPG kickstarter, help other game designers that are not Wizards or Paizo.
I find it amusing how many have come out crying that the OGL fiasco is an affront to humanity when they wear Nike shoes stitched in china. Or buy cloths from companies that use child workers in India.
In the grand scheme of things Wizards are not some big evil organisation. They made a mistake, people are allowed to, and they resolved it. There is no great conspiracy here and as a company they are far far more socially responsible then most.
No, I was fairly replying to your rhetoric, for which you deleted the reference. (Seems like a habit around here).
Hey, and sorry but the world is old. In fact, there is plenty of evidence that it's around 4.6 billion years old, lots more than the 6,000 years that fits less ancient religious claims. I'm sorry if you find it difficult to rationalise a context from this that we are relatively "fleeting and temporary" but, schucks, that's how it is. If you want reassurance, yes, for at least the 70-80 ish years that your biological form remains functioning on this world of vast geological time, yes you matter. So does everyone else, equally, as soulless beings who are hopefully trying to live with all the ~heart that we have. And as Darwin said, there is grandeur in this view of life.
Facts remain that our "disposable incomes ... give us many options by which various groups and a great many sets of families can be supported." You have your choice. You are free to do with your money as you please. But in a view of care for families, I hope we can further consider the relative value of actual charitable efforts perhaps to help the registered charities in whichever country in which you reside.
"Fair enough that you likely have no accounting training and thus likely did not understand that"* much of the investment in Hasbro is done in schemes in which risk is spread. We could put our disposable income towards Hasbro. We equally could put it in a different direction. For the majority of investors, on net, it wouldn't matter.
As for me, I don't currently envision me putting yet more personal investment into a company that has acted as deplorably as WotC.
My fair reference that "WotC will face a greater need for their creators to produce good and competitive products" meant exactly as it said and I think, from this, there is an argument that the creators' jobs (and family finances) are secure. Please don't go adding your own spins on peoples' words. Please.
*sorry to mirror your same, in my view, condescending rhetoric but my hope is that, through experiences like this, you will do better.