I'm planing on making a campain where the players have to fight some really hard enemies like tarrasques, krakens, and dragons but I'm worried my players won't be strong enough to beat the monsters (my players also aren't the greatest at the game either so keep that in mind) so I thought a good and fun idea would be to add a few NPC for the party to travel with and battle alongside. How do I go about making them? How many NPC are too many? Is it ok to make them unique with cool personalities? Or should I find some other way to make combat more balanced?
Add a warrior or a mage who is slightly higher level than your party to help them out in combat and maybe to tie in with some plot hooks you’re working on in your campaign.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Generally speaking, you are going to be better off scaling the encounters to the players, rather than giving the players an ally. Part of the fun of D&D is the chance to feel like a hero—and when you feel like every encounter was solved not because of the players, but because the DM played on both sides of the fight, that takes the wind out of the sails of victory.
Instead of adding additional monsters, give the players more equipment. 5e is designed with magical items being fairly uncommon, so players with a bunch of magical equipment are going to be able to punch above their weight. In both cases—adding an NPC or giving them gear—you as the DM are giving them tools they need to increase power, but the second option does so by increasing their power as characters.
You would be better off scaling down the tarrasque than giving the party NPC help in the fight
Alternately, you could make the goal not be killing the tarrasque in combat, but finding some way to banish it or neutralize it
Give the party a goal they can accomplish without needing to get bailed out by heavy-hitter NPCs
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The thing is a tarrasque would be very hard even for a level 20 party plus I'm only planning on having 3 players
In point of fact, the tarrasque has become somewhat infamous in 5e for being very underwhelming for its CR; among other considerations it has no ranged attack options, so players could potentially just find a way to fly above it outside of its reach and do the old “kill it with bug bites” bit. Now, that said, if your players always default to the Leeroy Jenkins approach, they’ll have a hard time with it. Honestly, if you’re concerned about their ability to handle the big tanky monsters, start them off with some squishier ones and see how well they go through them.
Just want to add - what level are these characters that you're throwing a tarrasque at them? Dragons at least have various ages and different challenge ratings, based on those ages.
Are you just having them make level 20 characters?
If so - that may be the reason they're "not very good" as you said. They may not be familiar with all their characters can do, since they've not built up to understanding the character's abilities over time.
And NPCs are fine - however, having been a player in Out of the Abyss, I found that there were WAY too many NPCs in the party in the start - and most of them felt like cardboard. Only one or two stuck out because of player interaction with those NPCs. The trick with NPCs is you need to make them interesting to the players. If the players aren't engaging with the NPC, then they're just "there." Also, make sure the NPC is never stealing the show (out damaging the warrior, for example) - because then it just becomes "The DM show with some player side kicks."
And as others said - scale to the party. I run what I call an "off week" game (three players from my normal game) - and because there's three of them, I scale the monsters (either up or down as needed) to still make it challenging and/or fun for the players.
Generally speaking, apart from when the story demands it... I'd go with one NPC if I felt that was the best option. Two at the most. Otherwise it slows down the game (which is already slow in combat) and draws the focus further away from the players. Examples when that won't work will be like when you're protecting or assisting NPCs like the Town Guard, etc.
If you can, tone down the encounter instead, which brings more focus on the players.
The point of a Tarrasque is to terrorise the party by its sheer size and power. As a result, play that to your advantage - rather than a straight fight, have them fight in stages. Remind them that retreat is an option. Alternatively, if they manage to deal a solid round of heavy hitting damage, you can have the Tarrasque be temporarily diverted as it seems to avoid the party. Lastly, you can have the Tarrasque knock them out but not kill them - because it's so powerful, it doesn't even consider it worth the effort. Regardless of how you do it, it gives the party a respite, a chance for a short rest and to recharge their health and abilities.
Just have escape hatches ready for when the party starts struggling.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Ambitious. I wouldn’t start planning the encounters with Krakens and Tarrasques yet in that case. Once you hit level 10, you should have a better sense of how the party handles. Maybe plan in a small escape hatch or prepare to fudge a few rolls in the party’s favor at levels 1 and 2, though; PC’s can be vulnerable to one critical hit or bad run of rolls at just the wrong time.
I'm planing on making a campain where the players have to fight some really hard enemies like tarrasques, krakens, and dragons but I'm worried my players won't be strong enough to beat the monsters (my players also aren't the greatest at the game either so keep that in mind) so I thought a good and fun idea would be to add a few NPC for the party to travel with and battle alongside. How do I go about making them? How many NPC are too many? Is it ok to make them unique with cool personalities? Or should I find some other way to make combat more balanced?
How will the players feel good about it if they need help to win? I'd ask yourself why - why give yourself the extra work of running NPC's? Why are you wanting to put them up against 'really hard' enemies. I'd suggest looking for unusual monsters to throw at the players that are suitable for their level. Things more rare than goblins, skeletons.
Look to here for inspiration on rare monsters: https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters and remember when you introduce them you don't have to say exactly what it is, you can make things sound meaner just describing their fangs, talons etc.
Lot's of good advice in this thread but one other thing similar to what others have said... You're in danger of falling into the 'DM NPC' traps. Making NPC's much cooler, stronger, faster than the players won't end well and they wont like them. THEY want to be the cool heroes - you get to be the whole rest of the world.
I’m another vote for scaling back the fights. It would be tremendously unsatisfying if the DMPC lands the killing blow on the final boss monster. Players want their characters to be (and should be) Luke blowing up the Death Star, not rebel pilot No. 3 who was nearby when it happened.
Also, while 1-20 is a nice goal to have in mind, don’t necessarily stick to it. It can end up being an arbitrary goal, and leave you with a point where you e run out of story at level 16, and then just come up with filler to get to 20. Just plan to go until the story ends, whenever that ends up being.
In my experience, it never goes well when the DM includes npc's more powerful than the party that they need in order to win encounters. It sends the wrong message to the players and makes the story and gameplay all about the npc's
If your players aren't that skilled at the game and their characters aren't that powerful, maybe this isn't the right group for your cool godzilla fight campaign.
If you are dead set on it being this campaign with these players, then before relying on god-tier npc's to do the real work while the players make ultimately insignificant contributions, instead I would present the players with alternate win conditions.
If you don't think the players are competent enough to kill the kraken, and/or that the characters aren't strong enough to kill it, then don't make killing it the goal. Think cinematically. Smaug wasn't killed in a straight fight, they used a specific (possibly magic?) arrow in conjunction with an exploitable weakness they found out about before hand, and just had to survive long enough to exploit it. Jaws wasn't killed in a straight fight, he got trapped in the wreckage of the boat and Chief Brody exploited the circumstance by donating the compressed air tank he was munching on. Iron Man doesn't try to kill Thanos in Endgame, instead he distracts him while going for the Infinity Stones. Gandalf doesn't try to slay the Balrog in Moria, he tries to bind it from chasing them and when that doesn't work he knocks out the bridge.
Basically if the players are up against an enemy that's physically beyond them in every way, and they're in that situation not because of the consequences of their own poor choices, but rather because the DM intended for them to be in that situation, then the DM needs to supply some alternate condition for the party to make it out. Otherwise you might as well open initiative with "Rocks fall, everyone dies."
As others have said, better to scale the encounters than to play a more powerful DMPC. DMPCs work when they are weaker but fill a specific hole - like level 4 cleric in a level 5 party with limited healing. If you’re running from L1 to L20 then stop worrying about things like the Tarrasque, Krakens and ancient dragons for now. You want to train them in how to take on such critters by proving similar but lower level challenges as they grow thru the campaign.creatures like Bulettes can be a stand in for the Tarrasque as they figure out how to deal with heavily armoured high damage critters at lower levels. Just as ancient dragons have younger descendants that they can fight to learn how to handle dragons you can create toned down Kraken/ various sized intelligent squid to do i n water battles with as well. You also have at least 2 rounds of magical divide distributions you can use to get them the tools needed to win the fights. Your job is to grow the party into being able to take out the final foes on their own not to take them out for them.
There's a quote from the video game Brutal Legend that I feel is good at describing the proper role of a DMPC:
A good roadie knows his whole job is to make someone else look good, keep someone else safe, help someone else do what they were put here to do. A good roadie stays out of the spotlight. If he's doing his job right, you don't even know he's there. Once in a while he might step on stage just to fix a problem, to set something right. But then before you even realize he was there or what he did, he's gone.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Alternatively a DMPC can be a good "Get Out of Jail" card if the party decides they want to cheese off the BBEG early on and you in your infinite mercy decide not to carry out the traditional penalty of crushing their characters like bugs, or just if a final boss of a run turns out to be a little more than they can handle. Again, don't steal the show, but they can draw aggro for a round or two while the party either finishes the enemy off or gets out of dodge. But yes, it's very important to remember a DMPC is ultimately a supporting character.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm planing on making a campain where the players have to fight some really hard enemies like tarrasques, krakens, and dragons but I'm worried my players won't be strong enough to beat the monsters (my players also aren't the greatest at the game either so keep that in mind) so I thought a good and fun idea would be to add a few NPC for the party to travel with and battle alongside. How do I go about making them? How many NPC are too many? Is it ok to make them unique with cool personalities? Or should I find some other way to make combat more balanced?
Add a warrior or a mage who is slightly higher level than your party to help them out in combat and maybe to tie in with some plot hooks you’re working on in your campaign.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
D&D Beyond has some pre-built level 12 sidekicks/NPCs:
Expert (level 12)
Spellcaster - Healer (level 12)
Spellcaster - Mage (level 12)
Warrior (level 12)
Personalities for the sidekicks can be found here:
Divine Contention Sidekicks
As for your other questions, I would be very careful with NPCs as they can upstage the players.
Generally speaking, you are going to be better off scaling the encounters to the players, rather than giving the players an ally. Part of the fun of D&D is the chance to feel like a hero—and when you feel like every encounter was solved not because of the players, but because the DM played on both sides of the fight, that takes the wind out of the sails of victory.
Instead of adding additional monsters, give the players more equipment. 5e is designed with magical items being fairly uncommon, so players with a bunch of magical equipment are going to be able to punch above their weight. In both cases—adding an NPC or giving them gear—you as the DM are giving them tools they need to increase power, but the second option does so by increasing their power as characters.
The thing is a tarrasque would be very hard even for a level 20 party plus I'm only planning on having 3 players
You would be better off scaling down the tarrasque than giving the party NPC help in the fight
Alternately, you could make the goal not be killing the tarrasque in combat, but finding some way to banish it or neutralize it
Give the party a goal they can accomplish without needing to get bailed out by heavy-hitter NPCs
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
In point of fact, the tarrasque has become somewhat infamous in 5e for being very underwhelming for its CR; among other considerations it has no ranged attack options, so players could potentially just find a way to fly above it outside of its reach and do the old “kill it with bug bites” bit. Now, that said, if your players always default to the Leeroy Jenkins approach, they’ll have a hard time with it. Honestly, if you’re concerned about their ability to handle the big tanky monsters, start them off with some squishier ones and see how well they go through them.
Good advice is already given...
Just want to add - what level are these characters that you're throwing a tarrasque at them? Dragons at least have various ages and different challenge ratings, based on those ages.
Are you just having them make level 20 characters?
If so - that may be the reason they're "not very good" as you said. They may not be familiar with all their characters can do, since they've not built up to understanding the character's abilities over time.
And NPCs are fine - however, having been a player in Out of the Abyss, I found that there were WAY too many NPCs in the party in the start - and most of them felt like cardboard. Only one or two stuck out because of player interaction with those NPCs. The trick with NPCs is you need to make them interesting to the players. If the players aren't engaging with the NPC, then they're just "there." Also, make sure the NPC is never stealing the show (out damaging the warrior, for example) - because then it just becomes "The DM show with some player side kicks."
And as others said - scale to the party. I run what I call an "off week" game (three players from my normal game) - and because there's three of them, I scale the monsters (either up or down as needed) to still make it challenging and/or fun for the players.
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
Generally speaking, apart from when the story demands it... I'd go with one NPC if I felt that was the best option. Two at the most. Otherwise it slows down the game (which is already slow in combat) and draws the focus further away from the players. Examples when that won't work will be like when you're protecting or assisting NPCs like the Town Guard, etc.
If you can, tone down the encounter instead, which brings more focus on the players.
The point of a Tarrasque is to terrorise the party by its sheer size and power. As a result, play that to your advantage - rather than a straight fight, have them fight in stages. Remind them that retreat is an option. Alternatively, if they manage to deal a solid round of heavy hitting damage, you can have the Tarrasque be temporarily diverted as it seems to avoid the party. Lastly, you can have the Tarrasque knock them out but not kill them - because it's so powerful, it doesn't even consider it worth the effort. Regardless of how you do it, it gives the party a respite, a chance for a short rest and to recharge their health and abilities.
Just have escape hatches ready for when the party starts struggling.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I was planning on making it levels 1-20 for anyone wondering
Well if they're starting at level 1... no one is typically good at level 1, as bad luck can be death. :)
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
Ambitious. I wouldn’t start planning the encounters with Krakens and Tarrasques yet in that case. Once you hit level 10, you should have a better sense of how the party handles. Maybe plan in a small escape hatch or prepare to fudge a few rolls in the party’s favor at levels 1 and 2, though; PC’s can be vulnerable to one critical hit or bad run of rolls at just the wrong time.
How will the players feel good about it if they need help to win? I'd ask yourself why - why give yourself the extra work of running NPC's? Why are you wanting to put them up against 'really hard' enemies. I'd suggest looking for unusual monsters to throw at the players that are suitable for their level. Things more rare than goblins, skeletons.
Look to here for inspiration on rare monsters: https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters and remember when you introduce them you don't have to say exactly what it is, you can make things sound meaner just describing their fangs, talons etc.
Lot's of good advice in this thread but one other thing similar to what others have said... You're in danger of falling into the 'DM NPC' traps. Making NPC's much cooler, stronger, faster than the players won't end well and they wont like them. THEY want to be the cool heroes - you get to be the whole rest of the world.
I’m another vote for scaling back the fights. It would be tremendously unsatisfying if the DMPC lands the killing blow on the final boss monster.
Players want their characters to be (and should be) Luke blowing up the Death Star, not rebel pilot No. 3 who was nearby when it happened.
Also, while 1-20 is a nice goal to have in mind, don’t necessarily stick to it. It can end up being an arbitrary goal, and leave you with a point where you e run out of story at level 16, and then just come up with filler to get to 20. Just plan to go until the story ends, whenever that ends up being.
The main focus of the campaign will be a cult that is trying to destroy the world using these giant monsters
In my experience, it never goes well when the DM includes npc's more powerful than the party that they need in order to win encounters. It sends the wrong message to the players and makes the story and gameplay all about the npc's
If your players aren't that skilled at the game and their characters aren't that powerful, maybe this isn't the right group for your cool godzilla fight campaign.
If you are dead set on it being this campaign with these players, then before relying on god-tier npc's to do the real work while the players make ultimately insignificant contributions, instead I would present the players with alternate win conditions.
If you don't think the players are competent enough to kill the kraken, and/or that the characters aren't strong enough to kill it, then don't make killing it the goal. Think cinematically. Smaug wasn't killed in a straight fight, they used a specific (possibly magic?) arrow in conjunction with an exploitable weakness they found out about before hand, and just had to survive long enough to exploit it. Jaws wasn't killed in a straight fight, he got trapped in the wreckage of the boat and Chief Brody exploited the circumstance by donating the compressed air tank he was munching on. Iron Man doesn't try to kill Thanos in Endgame, instead he distracts him while going for the Infinity Stones. Gandalf doesn't try to slay the Balrog in Moria, he tries to bind it from chasing them and when that doesn't work he knocks out the bridge.
Basically if the players are up against an enemy that's physically beyond them in every way, and they're in that situation not because of the consequences of their own poor choices, but rather because the DM intended for them to be in that situation, then the DM needs to supply some alternate condition for the party to make it out. Otherwise you might as well open initiative with "Rocks fall, everyone dies."
As others have said, better to scale the encounters than to play a more powerful DMPC. DMPCs work when they are weaker but fill a specific hole - like level 4 cleric in a level 5 party with limited healing. If you’re running from L1 to L20 then stop worrying about things like the Tarrasque, Krakens and ancient dragons for now. You want to train them in how to take on such critters by proving similar but lower level challenges as they grow thru the campaign.creatures like Bulettes can be a stand in for the Tarrasque as they figure out how to deal with heavily armoured high damage critters at lower levels. Just as ancient dragons have younger descendants that they can fight to learn how to handle dragons you can create toned down Kraken/ various sized intelligent squid to do i n water battles with as well. You also have at least 2 rounds of magical divide distributions you can use to get them the tools needed to win the fights. Your job is to grow the party into being able to take out the final foes on their own not to take them out for them.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
There's a quote from the video game Brutal Legend that I feel is good at describing the proper role of a DMPC:
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Alternatively a DMPC can be a good "Get Out of Jail" card if the party decides they want to cheese off the BBEG early on and you in your infinite mercy decide not to carry out the traditional penalty of crushing their characters like bugs, or just if a final boss of a run turns out to be a little more than they can handle. Again, don't steal the show, but they can draw aggro for a round or two while the party either finishes the enemy off or gets out of dodge. But yes, it's very important to remember a DMPC is ultimately a supporting character.