I am curious as to what multiclasses people wish worked together, but don't due to odd wording or limitations. Things like a paladin-monk, who could smite with their fists (but can't because fists aren't melee weapons, so they can't use smite).
It's probably a good thing they don't work together, balance-wise, but it would be nice if Sorcerer and Wizard could multiclass together. I think it's still not unheard of for some players to take the dive anyway just to be able to use Metamagic on the larger Wizard spell list. But the fact that both classes use different spellcasting sources makes them not really play well together.
Currently playing an Arcane Trickster rogue/Trickery Domain cleric in a PbP game here on DDB. It's a hot soupy mess of conflicting stats, poor scaling, and confused battlefield role, but I tried it anyways just because the combination of a natural trickster who found their calling with a trickster god(dess) is just too juicy not to try. Heh, ah well.
Monk + Anything. Other than a 1-2 level dip into something, you just plain can't multiclass a monk without making heavy sacrifices that are hard to patch up.
Need any stats outside of dex, wis, or con? Well, prepare to have trash for AC, and either bad attack rolls or ki abilities, or sacrifice some much-needed HP.
Dipping more than 1-2 levels? Your unarmed attack damage starts falling behind, and you don't have enough ki to do effective monk things.
Magic weapons don't help your unarmed strikes, and the +1 unarmed strikes magic item isn't standard. For boosting AC, other classes can try different types of armor, or go sword & board, but those are entirely off-limits for a monk since they turn off half your class features.
I really, really like the idea of an unarmed combatant character, but monk is the only class built for it, and it is infuriatingly inflexible. There's some support for unarmed combat in other classes, but it's always a clearly inferior choice to the class' standard options. Sure, I could pick unarmed fighting style on a fighter, but that's essentially sacrificing a class feature for a non-magical melee weapon.
Monk + Anything. Other than a 1-2 level dip into something, you just plain can't multiclass a monk without making heavy sacrifices that are hard to patch up.
Need any stats outside of dex, wis, or con? Well, prepare to have trash for AC, and either bad attack rolls or ki abilities, or sacrifice some much-needed HP.
Dipping more than 1-2 levels? Your unarmed attack damage starts falling behind, and you don't have enough ki to do effective monk things.
Magic weapons don't help your unarmed strikes, and the +1 unarmed strikes magic item isn't standard. For boosting AC, other classes can try different types of armor, or go sword & board, but those are entirely off-limits for a monk since they turn off half your class features.
I really, really like the idea of an unarmed combatant character, but monk is the only class built for it, and it is infuriatingly inflexible. There's some support for unarmed combat in other classes, but it's always a clearly inferior choice to the class' standard options. Sure, I could pick unarmed fighting style on a fighter, but that's essentially sacrificing a class feature for a non-magical melee weapon.
I had the same thing, I wanted a Pugilist character and it was hell to make them how I wanted! In the end I combined Fighter with Armourer Artificer, using the thunder gauntlets to punch with. As far as I can see, it's the only other viable punching-build!
Monk + Anything. Other than a 1-2 level dip into something, you just plain can't multiclass a monk without making heavy sacrifices that are hard to patch up.
Need any stats outside of dex, wis, or con? Well, prepare to have trash for AC, and either bad attack rolls or ki abilities, or sacrifice some much-needed HP.
Dipping more than 1-2 levels? Your unarmed attack damage starts falling behind, and you don't have enough ki to do effective monk things.
Magic weapons don't help your unarmed strikes, and the +1 unarmed strikes magic item isn't standard. For boosting AC, other classes can try different types of armor, or go sword & board, but those are entirely off-limits for a monk since they turn off half your class features.
I really, really like the idea of an unarmed combatant character, but monk is the only class built for it, and it is infuriatingly inflexible. There's some support for unarmed combat in other classes, but it's always a clearly inferior choice to the class' standard options. Sure, I could pick unarmed fighting style on a fighter, but that's essentially sacrificing a class feature for a non-magical melee weapon.
I had the same thing, I wanted a Pugilist character and it was hell to make them how I wanted! In the end I combined Fighter with Armourer Artificer, using the thunder gauntlets to punch with. As far as I can see, it's the only other viable punching-build!
Any combination of Fighter, Monk, and Barbarian would do a great job of the pugilist. There is nothing wrong with straight Monk for the punchy guy either.
5 levels in Fighter, 1 level in Monk would get you the unarmed fighting style, bonus action punch, Unarmored defense, action surge, fighter subclass (Battle master?), extra attack, and plenty of other stuff that would make it perfectly reasonable in the damage department.
Barbarian 5, Monk 1 is a little more MAD because you'd need at least 13s in strength, Dex, and Wisdom. And you'd probably want a good Constitution. 3 attacks at advantage with rage damage added is pretty good though.
Monk + Anything. Other than a 1-2 level dip into something, you just plain can't multiclass a monk without making heavy sacrifices that are hard to patch up.
Need any stats outside of dex, wis, or con? Well, prepare to have trash for AC, and either bad attack rolls or ki abilities, or sacrifice some much-needed HP.
Dipping more than 1-2 levels? Your unarmed attack damage starts falling behind, and you don't have enough ki to do effective monk things.
Magic weapons don't help your unarmed strikes, and the +1 unarmed strikes magic item isn't standard. For boosting AC, other classes can try different types of armor, or go sword & board, but those are entirely off-limits for a monk since they turn off half your class features.
I really, really like the idea of an unarmed combatant character, but monk is the only class built for it, and it is infuriatingly inflexible. There's some support for unarmed combat in other classes, but it's always a clearly inferior choice to the class' standard options. Sure, I could pick unarmed fighting style on a fighter, but that's essentially sacrificing a class feature for a non-magical melee weapon.
I had the same thing, I wanted a Pugilist character and it was hell to make them how I wanted! In the end I combined Fighter with Armourer Artificer, using the thunder gauntlets to punch with. As far as I can see, it's the only other viable punching-build!
Any combination of Fighter, Monk, and Barbarian would do a great job of the pugilist. There is nothing wrong with straight Monk for the punchy guy either.
5 levels in Fighter, 1 level in Monk would get you the unarmed fighting style, bonus action punch, Unarmored defense, action surge, fighter subclass (Battle master?), extra attack, and plenty of other stuff that would make it perfectly reasonable in the damage department.
Barbarian 5, Monk 1 is a little more MAD because you'd need at least 13s in strength, Dex, and Wisdom. And you'd probably want a good Constitution. 3 attacks at advantage with rage damage added is pretty good though.
The argument here is that using your fists with this build you'll only be doing d4 damage. That's not too much - plus, RAW in 5e you can't add rage to unarmed strikes I'm pretty sure.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Monk + Anything. Other than a 1-2 level dip into something, you just plain can't multiclass a monk without making heavy sacrifices that are hard to patch up.
Need any stats outside of dex, wis, or con? Well, prepare to have trash for AC, and either bad attack rolls or ki abilities, or sacrifice some much-needed HP.
Dipping more than 1-2 levels? Your unarmed attack damage starts falling behind, and you don't have enough ki to do effective monk things.
Magic weapons don't help your unarmed strikes, and the +1 unarmed strikes magic item isn't standard. For boosting AC, other classes can try different types of armor, or go sword & board, but those are entirely off-limits for a monk since they turn off half your class features.
I really, really like the idea of an unarmed combatant character, but monk is the only class built for it, and it is infuriatingly inflexible. There's some support for unarmed combat in other classes, but it's always a clearly inferior choice to the class' standard options. Sure, I could pick unarmed fighting style on a fighter, but that's essentially sacrificing a class feature for a non-magical melee weapon.
I had the same thing, I wanted a Pugilist character and it was hell to make them how I wanted! In the end I combined Fighter with Armourer Artificer, using the thunder gauntlets to punch with. As far as I can see, it's the only other viable punching-build!
Any combination of Fighter, Monk, and Barbarian would do a great job of the pugilist. There is nothing wrong with straight Monk for the punchy guy either.
5 levels in Fighter, 1 level in Monk would get you the unarmed fighting style, bonus action punch, Unarmored defense, action surge, fighter subclass (Battle master?), extra attack, and plenty of other stuff that would make it perfectly reasonable in the damage department.
Barbarian 5, Monk 1 is a little more MAD because you'd need at least 13s in strength, Dex, and Wisdom. And you'd probably want a good Constitution. 3 attacks at advantage with rage damage added is pretty good though.
The argument here is that using your fists with this build you'll only be doing d4 damage. That's not too much - plus, RAW in 5e you can't add rage to unarmed strikes I'm pretty sure.
This is exactly the sort of thing I'm thinking of - things that feel like they should work, but don't!
a barbarian punching someone absolutely should include rage!
This is one of those stupid rules they need to fix the wording on.
When you make a melee weapon attack using Strength, you gain a bonus to the damage roll that increases as you gain levels as a barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian table. - Rage
"Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes." - PHB (Section on making an attack)
So it does actually work RAW. It's just the definition of Melee weapon attack is not obvious. I think they're fixing this in OneDND.
Also, with the Unarmed Fighting style, it becomes 1d8. I just forgot to mention that you'd want to pick that up with a feat if you're not going the fighter route.
To answer the OPs question- I'd like to echo Paladin/Cleric. They don't work because you'd need 4 stats to be good, STR, CON, WIS, and CHA. Paladins should just be Wisdom based anyway. One DND warlock playtest UA just released has ways to change their spell casting stat. Maybe they'll consider doing something like that with Paladins.
I'd also love to see warlock druid. Really lean into the curse/hex/general debuff play style. This also doesn't work because of needing both CHA and WIS for spellcasting stats.
Actually I feel like some niche builds could work with this I think the Font of Magic feature and Clockwork Soul sorcerer is a lifesaver for this multiclass overall.
Starting off with 3 levels of Clockwork Sorcerer and then going one level of Barb, then the rest sorcerer is a solid option. Font of Magic to make a high level spell slot and cast Armor of Agathys (which you can get via Clockwork Spells) and then run into melee, spam Booming Blade with a heavy weapon. If you aren't using concentration spells, at the end of your turn start rage rather than the start, and end rage using a bonus action on the start of the turn after that to continue spamming spells Alternatively you could do Barb 5 first, before multiclassing afterwards into Clockwork Soul for that magic. Ancestral Barb 5/Clockwork Soul 3, can mix Armor of Agathy's with the disadvantage on attacks from Ancesteral to give bosses a tough choice of disadvantage or taking damage from Armor of Agathys.
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I am curious as to what multiclasses people wish worked together, but don't due to odd wording or limitations. Things like a paladin-monk, who could smite with their fists (but can't because fists aren't melee weapons, so they can't use smite).
What do you wish worked?
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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It's probably a good thing they don't work together, balance-wise, but it would be nice if Sorcerer and Wizard could multiclass together. I think it's still not unheard of for some players to take the dive anyway just to be able to use Metamagic on the larger Wizard spell list. But the fact that both classes use different spellcasting sources makes them not really play well together.
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Currently playing an Arcane Trickster rogue/Trickery Domain cleric in a PbP game here on DDB. It's a hot soupy mess of conflicting stats, poor scaling, and confused battlefield role, but I tried it anyways just because the combination of a natural trickster who found their calling with a trickster god(dess) is just too juicy not to try. Heh, ah well.
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Cleric/Paladin. Divine mage-knight is bad. So sad. (:
Sorcerer/Barbarian. The oldschool rage mage.
Monk + Anything. Other than a 1-2 level dip into something, you just plain can't multiclass a monk without making heavy sacrifices that are hard to patch up.
Need any stats outside of dex, wis, or con? Well, prepare to have trash for AC, and either bad attack rolls or ki abilities, or sacrifice some much-needed HP.
Dipping more than 1-2 levels? Your unarmed attack damage starts falling behind, and you don't have enough ki to do effective monk things.
Magic weapons don't help your unarmed strikes, and the +1 unarmed strikes magic item isn't standard. For boosting AC, other classes can try different types of armor, or go sword & board, but those are entirely off-limits for a monk since they turn off half your class features.
I really, really like the idea of an unarmed combatant character, but monk is the only class built for it, and it is infuriatingly inflexible. There's some support for unarmed combat in other classes, but it's always a clearly inferior choice to the class' standard options. Sure, I could pick unarmed fighting style on a fighter, but that's essentially sacrificing a class feature for a non-magical melee weapon.
I had the same thing, I wanted a Pugilist character and it was hell to make them how I wanted! In the end I combined Fighter with Armourer Artificer, using the thunder gauntlets to punch with. As far as I can see, it's the only other viable punching-build!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Any combination of Fighter, Monk, and Barbarian would do a great job of the pugilist. There is nothing wrong with straight Monk for the punchy guy either.
5 levels in Fighter, 1 level in Monk would get you the unarmed fighting style, bonus action punch, Unarmored defense, action surge, fighter subclass (Battle master?), extra attack, and plenty of other stuff that would make it perfectly reasonable in the damage department.
Barbarian 5, Monk 1 is a little more MAD because you'd need at least 13s in strength, Dex, and Wisdom. And you'd probably want a good Constitution. 3 attacks at advantage with rage damage added is pretty good though.
The argument here is that using your fists with this build you'll only be doing d4 damage. That's not too much - plus, RAW in 5e you can't add rage to unarmed strikes I'm pretty sure.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
This is exactly the sort of thing I'm thinking of - things that feel like they should work, but don't!
a barbarian punching someone absolutely should include rage!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
This is one of those stupid rules they need to fix the wording on.
So it does actually work RAW. It's just the definition of Melee weapon attack is not obvious. I think they're fixing this in OneDND.
Also, with the Unarmed Fighting style, it becomes 1d8. I just forgot to mention that you'd want to pick that up with a feat if you're not going the fighter route.
To answer the OPs question- I'd like to echo Paladin/Cleric. They don't work because you'd need 4 stats to be good, STR, CON, WIS, and CHA. Paladins should just be Wisdom based anyway. One DND warlock playtest UA just released has ways to change their spell casting stat. Maybe they'll consider doing something like that with Paladins.
I'd also love to see warlock druid. Really lean into the curse/hex/general debuff play style. This also doesn't work because of needing both CHA and WIS for spellcasting stats.
Wizard with any caster besides Artificier; but obviously the Intelligence stat is used by very few other classes.
Actually I feel like some niche builds could work with this
I think the Font of Magic feature and Clockwork Soul sorcerer is a lifesaver for this multiclass overall.
Starting off with 3 levels of Clockwork Sorcerer and then going one level of Barb, then the rest sorcerer is a solid option. Font of Magic to make a high level spell slot and cast Armor of Agathys (which you can get via Clockwork Spells) and then run into melee, spam Booming Blade with a heavy weapon. If you aren't using concentration spells, at the end of your turn start rage rather than the start, and end rage using a bonus action on the start of the turn after that to continue spamming spells
Alternatively you could do Barb 5 first, before multiclassing afterwards into Clockwork Soul for that magic.
Ancestral Barb 5/Clockwork Soul 3, can mix Armor of Agathy's with the disadvantage on attacks from Ancesteral to give bosses a tough choice of disadvantage or taking damage from Armor of Agathys.