I have a Player with the above character. He has entered into a duel with another human fighter. Player's character is lvl 7. I am looking for thoughts on how to even out the fight, get around the 10ft reach of the glaive and sentinel, with out giving the npc a glaive and sentinel as well. Right now I am making the NPC a more experienced fighter, going for level 12.
The player's 10ft reach doesn't prevent an enemy from getting in close to them, and I don't necessarily see Sentinel being a problem since in 1v1 I don't see a lot of characters trying to leave melee range and provoke an opportunity attack.
Is this Duel to the death, or to a certain amount of damage? To keep it balanced you might propose alternate win conditions beyond just depleting hit points. Then, it doesn't matter so much that combat isn't really always balanced for 1v1 if your using a stat block, or balanced for pvp if you're using player stats.
Ranged weapons and a faster move speed. Shoot him with a longbow. Run away. Repeat. Archery fighting style and sharpshooter and you'll do plenty of damage without being anywhere near him. Or go heavy crossbow and XBE (and sharpshooter and archery fighting style).
Or some kind of short teleport, like misty step, or one of the species that basically gets misty step, so you just pop up next to him in melee and he doesn't get to play the game with staying 10 feet away and forcing you to step forward.
Or misty step and stay with the ranged weapons, so if he does get close, you just teleport away, then shoot him some more.
Best if you can fit alert into the mix, that plus the high dex from being ranged should let you go first. Round one shoot 3 times, action surge, shoot three more times. (Maybe go samurai to give yourself advantage on all six of those attacks.)
Of course, he'll action surge on his first turn, also. That's why alert is so important. Characters are not designed to fight each other. Most of the time in PvP, the only roll that matters, or at least the roll that matters most, is initiative. Whoever wins it usually wins the fight. You'll go, do your nova. He'll go, do his nova. Then its just attrition, and you'll typically get more turns than he will by virtue of going first, so you win.
You can use a knight as a base. (A veteran would work, too.) That creature's challenge rating is three.
Challenge measures what level all the characters of a four-player party would have to be for the monster by itself to be a suitable challenge. So, multiplying the challenge rating by four would basically get you the challenge rating for one player, which in this case would be 12. Thus, the knight can match a level 12 fighter, and probably even extend beyond that since the fighter would have no support from spellcasters.
As for how to get around the glaive and sentinel's reach? You don't really need to. Reach isn't a gigantic thing in combat, especially in a one-on-one duel like this.
The thing is, I think some folks are forgetting the PAM/sentinel cheese. With sentinel and PAM, someone approaching provokes an OA when they enter reach (PAM) and on a hit, their move goes to 0 (sentinel). So they’re standing 10 feet away and can’t get closer. With no reach weapon, they don’t do much. The the PAM person attacks, steps back and forces the attacker to approach again, triggering the same event chain.
That’s why I said go ranged or teleport. To either ignore or get past to stop at 10’.
Give the human fighter a bandolier of throwing knives. Only a fool would engage in a melee fight with a polearm master sentinel. (Clearly I am no fool, so I will not move to the space in front of you).
Alternatively give him his own reach weapon and a bunch of battle master manouvers.
Also alternatively give him Echo Knight and have him move the echo to within range, then attack from there.
finally, make him pure ranged. He starts 300ft away with a longbow. Good luck, polarm master!
I have a Player with the above character. He has entered into a duel with another human fighter. Player's character is lvl 7. I am looking for thoughts on how to even out the fight, get around the 10ft reach of the glaive and sentinel, with out giving the npc a glaive and sentinel as well. Right now I am making the NPC a more experienced fighter, going for level 12.
Thoughts?
My first thought is why you want to deny this character the fun they will have in winning. :)
As to the situation every good warrior should have a backup plan. In this case a ranged backup plan or reach weapon of some nature.
I have a Player with the above character. He has entered into a duel with another human fighter. Player's character is lvl 7. I am looking for thoughts on how to even out the fight, get around the 10ft reach of the glaive and sentinel, with out giving the npc a glaive and sentinel as well. Right now I am making the NPC a more experienced fighter, going for level 12.
Thoughts?
My first thought is why you want to deny this character the fun they will have in winning. :)
As to the situation every good warrior should have a backup plan. In this case a ranged backup plan or reach weapon of some nature.
100%.
Any weapon user is destroyed by basically any spell though. (I'm exaggerating.) Make the opponent a high elf so they can have a Wizard cantrip. Done.
Also worth considering this as a golden opportunity for the other fighter to arrogently teach them about some of the other moves available, if that suits their character. This will be especially good and poignant if the fighter player always uses the same approach in their fights.
Polearm Master and Sentinel are great - but the opponent can embarress them if they bring something as "weak" as a whip or a dagger.
1: Move up, get stopped. Whip, disarm (that's just a thing you can do), object interaction to pick up the polearm. Alternatively, move to 15ft. away, throw the dagger, disarm (yes you can do that). then move the rest of the way and shove them over, pick up the polearm, and move away (if possible).
2: fighter is now disarmed and concerned about this, their whole tactic is broken, and they need to adapt to win. Have the other fighter lecture them about how they are too preoccupied with their one tactic whilst doing moves like Shove, Disarm, Grapple, and battle master manouvers. Bonus points if they also have polearm master and sentinel - every time the fighter approaches, stop them and disarm instead of dealing damage. Make them a really infuriating character, but then smile when the fighter starts using some of these tactics in their fights!
The disarm option is a variant rule in the DMG. The only way to disarm someone with base rules is the Disarming Strike maneuver (or Heat Metal or Telekinesis).
I have a Player with the above character. He has entered into a duel with another human fighter. Player's character is lvl 7. I am looking for thoughts on how to even out the fight, get around the 10ft reach of the glaive and sentinel, with out giving the npc a glaive and sentinel as well. Right now I am making the NPC a more experienced fighter, going for level 12.
Thoughts?
Giving the enemy reach attacks that prevent taking reaction and or features that let it move without provoking Opportunity Attack would be good.
As an aside, I really don't think it's fair to describe this feat combo as "cheese." The most it can do is perfectly defend you against exactly one guy, as long as that guy only has melee attacks and doesn't have reach and can't Misty Step. With V.Human you could get it going as early as level 4, but what can, say, a supposedly-squishy Wizard accomplish at that same level? Well, Bladesinging will get his AC up to 15+, he can cast seven Shield spells to boost it up to 20+ against EVERY enemy who attacks him for seven turns, not just one guy, or maybe he'd rather hold a couple of those slots to cast Absorb Elements to defend against magic, which the Fighter can't do at all; and if he can spare one action, Blur will give disadvantage to all his opponents as well. His damage isn't as good (yet), but does it need to be, when he's this safe? (Plus he knows NINE MORE spells and 4 cantrips!) But THAT'S not cheese, no. It's only cheese when an expert melee combatant is able to handily defeat someone in a duel. Hogwash, I say!
Agreed, polearm master & sentinel are a good combo, and perhaps one they had not foreseen, but they ain't cheese. just get 2 people to approach instead!
just use a drow(or two or three)and make it dark, it is very funny to see advanced characters run for their lives and drop asleep against 1/4 cr creatures.when unseen you can use the long range without disadvantage.statiscally speaking the drow gets him poisoned and probaly unconscious before the fighter reaches the drow.after that it is just killing the fighter with the shortsword or you can stop the fight there
1: Move up, get stopped. Whip, disarm (that's just a thing you can do), object interaction to pick up the polearm. Alternatively, move to 15ft. away, throw the dagger, disarm (yes you can do that). then move the rest of the way and shove them over, pick up the polearm, and move away (if possible).
How could you pick it up from 10’ away? In the whip example. The dagger one makes more sense. Though in either case, the attack is with disadvantage since the target is holding the item with two hands.
As an aside, I really don't think it's fair to describe this feat combo as "cheese." The most it can do is perfectly defend you against exactly one guy, as long as that guy only has melee attacks and doesn't have reach and can't Misty Step. With V.Human you could get it going as early as level 4, but what can, say, a supposedly-squishy Wizard accomplish at that same level? Well, Bladesinging will get his AC up to 15+, he can cast seven Shield spells to boost it up to 20+ against EVERY enemy who attacks him for seven turns, not just one guy, or maybe he'd rather hold a couple of those slots to cast Absorb Elements to defend against magic, which the Fighter can't do at all; and if he can spare one action, Blur will give disadvantage to all his opponents as well. His damage isn't as good (yet), but does it need to be, when he's this safe? (Plus he knows NINE MORE spells and 4 cantrips!) But THAT'S not cheese, no. It's only cheese when an expert melee combatant is able to handily defeat someone in a duel. Hogwash, I say!
That’s fair. Cheese wasn’t the best term to use. I probably should have said combo or something more neutral.
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I have a Player with the above character. He has entered into a duel with another human fighter. Player's character is lvl 7. I am looking for thoughts on how to even out the fight, get around the 10ft reach of the glaive and sentinel, with out giving the npc a glaive and sentinel as well. Right now I am making the NPC a more experienced fighter, going for level 12.
Thoughts?
The player's 10ft reach doesn't prevent an enemy from getting in close to them, and I don't necessarily see Sentinel being a problem since in 1v1 I don't see a lot of characters trying to leave melee range and provoke an opportunity attack.
Is this Duel to the death, or to a certain amount of damage? To keep it balanced you might propose alternate win conditions beyond just depleting hit points. Then, it doesn't matter so much that combat isn't really always balanced for 1v1 if your using a stat block, or balanced for pvp if you're using player stats.
Ranged weapons and a faster move speed. Shoot him with a longbow. Run away. Repeat. Archery fighting style and sharpshooter and you'll do plenty of damage without being anywhere near him. Or go heavy crossbow and XBE (and sharpshooter and archery fighting style).
Or some kind of short teleport, like misty step, or one of the species that basically gets misty step, so you just pop up next to him in melee and he doesn't get to play the game with staying 10 feet away and forcing you to step forward.
Or misty step and stay with the ranged weapons, so if he does get close, you just teleport away, then shoot him some more.
Best if you can fit alert into the mix, that plus the high dex from being ranged should let you go first. Round one shoot 3 times, action surge, shoot three more times. (Maybe go samurai to give yourself advantage on all six of those attacks.)
Of course, he'll action surge on his first turn, also. That's why alert is so important. Characters are not designed to fight each other. Most of the time in PvP, the only roll that matters, or at least the roll that matters most, is initiative. Whoever wins it usually wins the fight. You'll go, do your nova. He'll go, do his nova. Then its just attrition, and you'll typically get more turns than he will by virtue of going first, so you win.
You can use a knight as a base. (A veteran would work, too.) That creature's challenge rating is three.
Challenge measures what level all the characters of a four-player party would have to be for the monster by itself to be a suitable challenge. So, multiplying the challenge rating by four would basically get you the challenge rating for one player, which in this case would be 12. Thus, the knight can match a level 12 fighter, and probably even extend beyond that since the fighter would have no support from spellcasters.
As for how to get around the glaive and sentinel's reach? You don't really need to. Reach isn't a gigantic thing in combat, especially in a one-on-one duel like this.
The thing is, I think some folks are forgetting the PAM/sentinel cheese. With sentinel and PAM, someone approaching provokes an OA when they enter reach (PAM) and on a hit, their move goes to 0 (sentinel). So they’re standing 10 feet away and can’t get closer. With no reach weapon, they don’t do much. The the PAM person attacks, steps back and forces the attacker to approach again, triggering the same event chain.
That’s why I said go ranged or teleport. To either ignore or get past to stop at 10’.
Make a wisdom saving throw.
Give the human fighter a bandolier of throwing knives. Only a fool would engage in a melee fight with a polearm master sentinel. (Clearly I am no fool, so I will not move to the space in front of you).
Alternatively give him his own reach weapon and a bunch of battle master manouvers.
Also alternatively give him Echo Knight and have him move the echo to within range, then attack from there.
finally, make him pure ranged. He starts 300ft away with a longbow. Good luck, polarm master!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
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My first thought is why you want to deny this character the fun they will have in winning. :)
As to the situation every good warrior should have a backup plan. In this case a ranged backup plan or reach weapon of some nature.
100%.
Any weapon user is destroyed by basically any spell though. (I'm exaggerating.) Make the opponent a high elf so they can have a Wizard cantrip. Done.
Also worth considering this as a golden opportunity for the other fighter to arrogently teach them about some of the other moves available, if that suits their character. This will be especially good and poignant if the fighter player always uses the same approach in their fights.
Polearm Master and Sentinel are great - but the opponent can embarress them if they bring something as "weak" as a whip or a dagger.
1: Move up, get stopped. Whip, disarm (that's just a thing you can do), object interaction to pick up the polearm. Alternatively, move to 15ft. away, throw the dagger, disarm (yes you can do that). then move the rest of the way and shove them over, pick up the polearm, and move away (if possible).
2: fighter is now disarmed and concerned about this, their whole tactic is broken, and they need to adapt to win. Have the other fighter lecture them about how they are too preoccupied with their one tactic whilst doing moves like Shove, Disarm, Grapple, and battle master manouvers. Bonus points if they also have polearm master and sentinel - every time the fighter approaches, stop them and disarm instead of dealing damage. Make them a really infuriating character, but then smile when the fighter starts using some of these tactics in their fights!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
The disarm option is a variant rule in the DMG. The only way to disarm someone with base rules is the Disarming Strike maneuver (or Heat Metal or Telekinesis).
Giving the enemy reach attacks that prevent taking reaction and or features that let it move without provoking Opportunity Attack would be good.
As an aside, I really don't think it's fair to describe this feat combo as "cheese." The most it can do is perfectly defend you against exactly one guy, as long as that guy only has melee attacks and doesn't have reach and can't Misty Step. With V.Human you could get it going as early as level 4, but what can, say, a supposedly-squishy Wizard accomplish at that same level? Well, Bladesinging will get his AC up to 15+, he can cast seven Shield spells to boost it up to 20+ against EVERY enemy who attacks him for seven turns, not just one guy, or maybe he'd rather hold a couple of those slots to cast Absorb Elements to defend against magic, which the Fighter can't do at all; and if he can spare one action, Blur will give disadvantage to all his opponents as well. His damage isn't as good (yet), but does it need to be, when he's this safe? (Plus he knows NINE MORE spells and 4 cantrips!) But THAT'S not cheese, no. It's only cheese when an expert melee combatant is able to handily defeat someone in a duel. Hogwash, I say!
Agreed, polearm master & sentinel are a good combo, and perhaps one they had not foreseen, but they ain't cheese. just get 2 people to approach instead!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
just use a drow(or two or three)and make it dark, it is very funny to see advanced characters run for their lives and drop asleep against 1/4 cr creatures.when unseen you can use the long range without disadvantage.statiscally speaking the drow gets him poisoned and probaly unconscious before the fighter reaches the drow.after that it is just killing the fighter with the shortsword or you can stop the fight there
How could you pick it up from 10’ away? In the whip example. The dagger one makes more sense. Though in either case, the attack is with disadvantage since the target is holding the item with two hands.
That’s fair. Cheese wasn’t the best term to use. I probably should have said combo or something more neutral.