I'm looking to start a game of Descent Into Avernus soon.
I'm aware that there's lot of opportunities to make deals with devils. However I don't feel that the character would make a deal or even engage in constructive conversation with a devil under any circumstances whatsoever. (Reason to extensive to go into here, and I'm not looking to tell a "fall from grace story").
However, I need to bear in mind that as a player i need to interact with my fellow players and I'd like to enjoy the game and not miss out on the content.
So my question is how much of the module will I miss out on with this character ideology restriction?
Adventuring parties are democratic. You get one vote.
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There are more things in hell than just devils and demons. My party dealt with 3 devils on our path. I think we could have probably circumvented them.
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I want you to understand that this adventure isn't coming from a Christian morality-play perspective -- making a deal with a devil is not positioned as the thing that will guarantee your doom, or the signal of your blackhearted ambition. Making a deal with a devil isn't the ultimate evil or the ultimate foolish mistake. An adventure where there's this big, interesting thing with its own mechanics and characters, and you can never, ever interact with it even once because it'll ruin everything, would be kind of extremely stupid. It's fine if your character doesn't understand this, but you should.
Also, you might want to consider there is a big difference between "won't make a deal with a devil" and "won't even talk to a devil." Once in Avernus, if I recall, the vast majority of every being you will encounter will be evil to some extent, and the devils aren't always the worst ones around. Unless the character is particular only about devils but fine with all other sorts of evil creatures, then the various encounters that are expected to be social ones (merchants, information sources) are all going to a problem.
I'm hoping to run it someday, and my group would also be the sort of avoid making deals with devils as well. So avoiding that aspect does not seem to be a problem. But avoiding even talking to them at all (especially if it's consistent to all equivalently evil creatures not just devils and only devils) would make the adventure more difficult to run.
Maybe this is just a mismatch of character/campaign. Not every character will fit every campaign. Just like every play style will not fit every table.
A different character might be a better option for this one. I don’t know. I haven’t played that, or any, module so maybe there is a way to still fit in and enjoy it.
It doesn't sound like it will be disastrous based on your comments. I'll just have to enjoy other player's interactions/deals with devils. I think i can feel okay about enabling to trade with merchants, but that will be all.
There's something I like about a character's convictions that are so strong they won't compromise even under Apocalyptic circumstances.
I'd be flexible regarding your character's time in hell. Depending on the back story, if you worked out one with the DM that's actually integrated into the setting, odds are the convictions at the core of the character's sanctimony will be challenged (least that's what I did with one our characters, and everyone thought it was a fun arc). There's a lot of opportunity to lean into that personality in the adventure, but there's some faith shaking truths that occur that a DM can exploit, again if the character is at all integrated into the larger setting of Baldur's Gate and its environs.
Also realize a lot of the "deals" aren't necessarily soul selling pacts, but more transactional negotiations. It's not so much "If I grant you this request it shows you are ideologically aligned with me, and moreso YOU'RE MINE." It's rather more like, "you want to know something, I need something done, you do it, I'll tell you what you want to know." These are generally offers to the whole party to meet the party need, not individual needs, though there's plenty of room for individual bargaining too. If your character won't go along with the party when these agreements are made ... there may be some dead weight assessments while you wait around for them to do the devils' work, so to speak.
In terms of the 1st point happy for the DM to challenge away, but he ain't shifting. He may be mind-boggling deluded but that's the character. I've actually already spoken to the DM and he seemed to like the idea of someone who just sticks to his guns no matter what. This was more of a check to see if I'd be missing out on any of the fun. And the more posts i see the more i think the juxtaposed faith even in hell will be something memorable. I think it may be more of an issue of all players refused to enter into the contracts, re-rolling new characters if they needed to. Would be a bit of a let down then.
In terms of the second part as I've already alluded to I'm not bloody minded enough to refuse to co-operate, but that comes under "the limits of roleplay". You can't have split the party 6 ways. Under these circumstances I find the best way is the PC to take the attitude of "I don't know and I don't want to know". so the game can continue.
t's kinda like you are an alien going to planet earth but you don't want to make deals with humans or even converse with them because of your ideology. You'll be missing out a lot after chapter 1 at least, depends also on how the DM is running it.
Wonderful! Asmodeus loves principles… like butterflies, they’re just so beautiful, precious and fragile.
I think your DM will love it; temptation and necessity are themes in the campaign. If everyone has the same point of view, you lose a lot of the flavor of the story.
It’s a really great campaign; playing it as a paladin or similar would be amazing. You might find that not talking to any evil entity, ever, might be very difficult. I’d expect most characters to fairly quickly adopt some version of “I will engage with these devils for the greater good, but I will not compromise my beliefs”, just out of necessity.
I can see why you might think that, I’ve played the character before though I had to leave the campaign which is why I was thinking of playing him again. That and I rolled stats 17,16,15,15,12,8 so very friendly for a MAD class.
The issue would be more around the practicalities of playing at s table. Ultimately there are other players at the table that want to do x quest. And having one PC saying “I won’t do X unless torm himself demands it to be done”, “there maybe x 100 npcs that will have this terrible thing to them unless I do y, but I’m noting going to compromise” puts the dm in the position of ruining the atmosphere of the game or having to constantly make allowances for the campaign.
As I recall in the bible there’s a story where God commands a man to kill his son but stops him at the last minute. That’s the area we would be looking at to get him to cooperate with a devil.
Now 90% that playing this character would be too impractical.
I'm looking to start a game of Descent Into Avernus soon.
I'm aware that there's lot of opportunities to make deals with devils. However I don't feel that the character would make a deal or even engage in constructive conversation with a devil under any circumstances whatsoever. (Reason to extensive to go into here, and I'm not looking to tell a "fall from grace story").
However, I need to bear in mind that as a player i need to interact with my fellow players and I'd like to enjoy the game and not miss out on the content.
So my question is how much of the module will I miss out on with this character ideology restriction?
Adventuring parties are democratic. You get one vote.
---
There are more things in hell than just devils and demons. My party dealt with 3 devils on our path. I think we could have probably circumvented them.
---
I want you to understand that this adventure isn't coming from a Christian morality-play perspective -- making a deal with a devil is not positioned as the thing that will guarantee your doom, or the signal of your blackhearted ambition. Making a deal with a devil isn't the ultimate evil or the ultimate foolish mistake. An adventure where there's this big, interesting thing with its own mechanics and characters, and you can never, ever interact with it even once because it'll ruin everything, would be kind of extremely stupid. It's fine if your character doesn't understand this, but you should.
Also, you might want to consider there is a big difference between "won't make a deal with a devil" and "won't even talk to a devil." Once in Avernus, if I recall, the vast majority of every being you will encounter will be evil to some extent, and the devils aren't always the worst ones around. Unless the character is particular only about devils but fine with all other sorts of evil creatures, then the various encounters that are expected to be social ones (merchants, information sources) are all going to a problem.
I'm hoping to run it someday, and my group would also be the sort of avoid making deals with devils as well. So avoiding that aspect does not seem to be a problem. But avoiding even talking to them at all (especially if it's consistent to all equivalently evil creatures not just devils and only devils) would make the adventure more difficult to run.
Maybe this is just a mismatch of character/campaign. Not every character will fit every campaign. Just like every play style will not fit every table.
A different character might be a better option for this one. I don’t know. I haven’t played that, or any, module so maybe there is a way to still fit in and enjoy it.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
It doesn't sound like it will be disastrous based on your comments. I'll just have to enjoy other player's interactions/deals with devils. I think i can feel okay about enabling to trade with merchants, but that will be all.
There's something I like about a character's convictions that are so strong they won't compromise even under Apocalyptic circumstances.
I'd be flexible regarding your character's time in hell. Depending on the back story, if you worked out one with the DM that's actually integrated into the setting, odds are the convictions at the core of the character's sanctimony will be challenged (least that's what I did with one our characters, and everyone thought it was a fun arc). There's a lot of opportunity to lean into that personality in the adventure, but there's some faith shaking truths that occur that a DM can exploit, again if the character is at all integrated into the larger setting of Baldur's Gate and its environs.
Also realize a lot of the "deals" aren't necessarily soul selling pacts, but more transactional negotiations. It's not so much "If I grant you this request it shows you are ideologically aligned with me, and moreso YOU'RE MINE." It's rather more like, "you want to know something, I need something done, you do it, I'll tell you what you want to know." These are generally offers to the whole party to meet the party need, not individual needs, though there's plenty of room for individual bargaining too. If your character won't go along with the party when these agreements are made ... there may be some dead weight assessments while you wait around for them to do the devils' work, so to speak.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
In terms of the 1st point happy for the DM to challenge away, but he ain't shifting. He may be mind-boggling deluded but that's the character. I've actually already spoken to the DM and he seemed to like the idea of someone who just sticks to his guns no matter what. This was more of a check to see if I'd be missing out on any of the fun. And the more posts i see the more i think the juxtaposed faith even in hell will be something memorable. I think it may be more of an issue of all players refused to enter into the contracts, re-rolling new characters if they needed to. Would be a bit of a let down then.
In terms of the second part as I've already alluded to I'm not bloody minded enough to refuse to co-operate, but that comes under "the limits of roleplay". You can't have split the party 6 ways. Under these circumstances I find the best way is the PC to take the attitude of "I don't know and I don't want to know". so the game can continue.
Sounds like you've got the right attitude. I'm sure it'll be fine.
t's kinda like you are an alien going to planet earth but you don't want to make deals with humans or even converse with them because of your ideology. You'll be missing out a lot after chapter 1 at least, depends also on how the DM is running it.
keeping the same topic imagine this series of events…
PC is lawful good and makes an oath to follow a LG deity and abhor evil have a moral compass etc
PCs alignment shifts to LE
LE devil are beholden to their oaths and promises.
the now evil pc continues their behaviour governed by their original oath even though they now longer agree with it. After all an oath is an oath
Wonderful! Asmodeus loves principles… like butterflies, they’re just so beautiful, precious and fragile.
I think your DM will love it; temptation and necessity are themes in the campaign. If everyone has the same point of view, you lose a lot of the flavor of the story.
It’s a really great campaign; playing it as a paladin or similar would be amazing. You might find that not talking to any evil entity, ever, might be very difficult. I’d expect most characters to fairly quickly adopt some version of “I will engage with these devils for the greater good, but I will not compromise my beliefs”, just out of necessity.
I can see why you might think that, I’ve played the character before though I had to leave the campaign which is why I was thinking of playing him again. That and I rolled stats 17,16,15,15,12,8 so very friendly for a MAD class.
The issue would be more around the practicalities of playing at s table. Ultimately there are other players at the table that want to do x quest. And having one PC saying “I won’t do X unless torm himself demands it to be done”, “there maybe x 100 npcs that will have this terrible thing to them unless I do y, but I’m noting going to compromise” puts the dm in the position of ruining the atmosphere of the game or having to constantly make allowances for the campaign.
As I recall in the bible there’s a story where God commands a man to kill his son but stops him at the last minute. That’s the area we would be looking at to get him to cooperate with a devil.
Now 90% that playing this character would be too impractical.