I would note that Hasbro spent all year trying to rebuild trust and goodwill over the debacle at the beginning of the year, and then to do this right before Christmas?
I mean, they could have waited a few weeks and kept a lot of the goodwill and trust they had gained back.
Hasbro likely had very little choice in the timing—the timing is decided based on various requirements for fiscal reporting and tax reporting purposes. They do not get to really choose that the tax and fiscal year are ending right around Christmas—which means that they have very limited options when it comes to how they do severance. If they delayed, they would not be able to write the severance packages off as a financial cost for 2023. That means they cannot claim those losses on their taxes for this year and cannot put it down as a failure in this already bad fiscal year.
For a company doing as badly as Hasbro, they need the extra cash on hand that deducting severance on their taxes will give them—time value of money and all that says that the money is more valuable if you get it in 2023 tax season than if you got the same numerical value in 2024 tax season. For a company that wants to show growth to survive, they want to be able to say “look, we had all sorts of problems, such as a big severance package in 2023, but we don’t have those in our 2024 reporting, so things are looking up!”
All of that is an unfortunate side effect of how reporting is done, and it isn’t really fair to blame Hasbro for how our financial system and tax code kind of force these Christmas layoffs to occur.
"Fiscal year – 12 consecutive months ending on the last day of any month except December. A 52-53-week tax year is a fiscal tax year that varies from 52 to 53 weeks but does not have to end on the last day of a month.
Changing your tax year
Once you have adopted your tax year, you may have to get IRS approval to change it. "
A company that big knows they will inevitably lay people off, choosing when based off fiscal year end is one thing, but they get to choose that fiscal year end date and can change it.
Tax law is complicated, so no need to feel bad that you’re “fact checking” and citation are not the most helpful and miss a number of important realities. I’ve done my fair share of tax law over the course of my legal practice, and I hate it every time I have to deal with it.
The citation you provide is talking about two different accounting methods you can use—fiscal year or calendar year accounting. Hasbro has locked themselves into a tax period that ends on December 31st—that is why they are currently in their Q4 period of the year.
Changing that is possible, but it is really, really hard to do—much harder to do than the little “may have to get IRS approval” bit on the IRS website you cited makes it seem. The IRS is not really fond of “hey, we’re a multi billion dollar company, can you please let us mess with our tax season to better facilitate layoffs so we can pay the government less?” as a reason for changing.
And, even if you do get permission to change, it is a logistical nightmare to get things switched over—suddenly all your books, all your quarters, all your old financial reporting is out of whack not only with your own company’s history, but with the expectations of anyone expecting your fiscal quarters to match the standard Q1-Q4 tracking the calendar year. Suddenly you have issues where your corporate tax period is different from your employees’ salary tax years (not an insurmountable problem, but it is an inconvenience when trying to calculate things like bonuses). And plenty of other issues that come up both from changing your status quo and suddenly being on your own, unique, non-industry-standard schedule.
You stated they had little choice, they have THE choice. That was the fact check.
They can also change it. It might not be easy but it can be done.
I am not pretending to be a tax expert or to know the ins and outs of Hasbro/WotC's business, but I can look up things like this.
I am not against Hasbro/WotC, but after the last 12-18 months I am just over giving them the benefit of doubt, everything they have botched could have been handled way better.
Either they need more direction and supervision before creating these PR nightmares, or they simply do not care about the fallout from them.
I am excited to see the next hold my beer moment from them, but deep down I wish they would stop shooting themselves in the foot and get back to making a game that makes money instead of trying to wring every cent from the game they can. I understand they need to make money, but there are many ways to do it and many examples of how it can be done this is one of them but it has the cost of PR.
Side note do you work for Hasbro/Wotc?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Either they need more direction and supervision before creating these PR nightmares, or they simply do not care about the fallout from them.
Both. The community can scream until our lungs burst, but as long as they have customers who line up and continue to buy their products, they'll continue not giving a damn. Forget the facts, the bottom line is all the bean counters are checking.
Either they need more direction and supervision before creating these PR nightmares, or they simply do not care about the fallout from them.
Both. The community can scream until our lungs burst, but as long as they have customers who line up and continue to buy their products, they'll continue not giving a damn. Forget the facts, the bottom line is all the bean counters are checking.
Guilty as charged! Just hoping for a sale on a few physical books in the next few months.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
No matter how you feel about WotC's last ~18 months I hope this makes you smile, I know there has to be someone at WotC that feels like the character behind this desk.
No matter how you feel about WotC's last ~18 months I hope this makes you smile, I know there has to be someone at WotC that feels like the character behind this desk.
I smiled, although somewhat sadly.
That said, I'm fairly certain that I have a nasty BBEG challenge tomorrow afternoon which, no matter the outcome, reminds me of why I play this game.
No matter how you feel about WotC's last ~18 months I hope this makes you smile, I know there has to be someone at WotC that feels like the character behind this desk.
I smiled, although somewhat sadly.
That said, I'm fairly certain that I have a nasty BBEG challenge tomorrow afternoon which, no matter the outcome, reminds me of why I play this game.
There are plenty of the "cultist" that are sad about this too.
There are plenty of the "cultist" that are sad about this too.
Yeah, I scroll through their angry little Reddit posts daily. My favorites are, "I now play 'this particular game and I've never looked back.' Then they constantly spam D&D subs. Like, check yourselves, dudes.
Edit to acknowledge that you changed "cultists" (my quote) to "players." Found another PF2e burner account, y'all.
I changed it back lol. You quoted me while I was editing it, so I just put it back origional. No need to jump to conclusions, the reason I changed it is I didn't want to sound snarky as I meant it light hearted but wasn't sure it would be taken that way. No burner account here. You are a little fast and lose with those labels aren't you?
I changed it back lol. You quoted me while I was editing it, so I just put it back origional. No need to jump to conclusions, the reason I changed it is I didn't want to sound snarky as I meant it light hearted but wasn't sure it would be taken that way. No burner account here. You are a little fast and lose with those labels aren't you?
I'd insight check the hell out of this in my game. But okay, whatever.
I changed it back lol. You quoted me while I was editing it, so I just put it back origional. No need to jump to conclusions, the reason I changed it is I didn't want to sound snarky as I meant it light hearted but wasn't sure it would be taken that way. No burner account here. You are a little fast and lose with those labels aren't you?
I'd insight check the hell out of this in my game. But okay, whatever.
How would you like my post to read, same as quoted, or as I altered it? You have advantage. I stand by both.
How would you like my post to read, same as quoted, or as I altered it? You have advantage. I stand by both.
You ultimately decided on "Cultist[s]," my own derisive term for those who relentlessly spam D&D subs and forums with their 'latest, greatest, whatever,' which was my original intent. So I am pleased with your final edit. "Players," at least on this particular forum, means D&D players. These two labels are not interchangeable. They both mean very different things to me.
So, if you're so inclined, where do you actually land?
If by land you mean WotC basher or fan boi, then center basher. I want WotC to excel, I do not agree with many/most of the things they have fumbled this year or so but I do understand they are profit driven by law. I just think they should be sticking a few ASI point in charisma. While I understand the why it does not mean I agree with it and will point it out. Other than that WotC gonna WotC.
Don't and will likely not use any VTT unless another DM uses one at an in person game
Maps is looking good even in beta
No interest in the upcoming rule books
Love the last few adventures I bought and will continue to purchase the ones that appeal to me
Love the character creator/sheets warts and all
Love playing the game and getting new players to a game
Have several games going at the moment
Rarely talk about Hasbro/Wotc outside this forum.
Basically love Wotc but if their going to act foolish I will call them a fool.
Something occurred to me after a little thought about why these layoffs are hitting WotC as well as core Hasbro:
Businesses get investment if they can be expected to show "growth". This growth can either come from expanding the market and making more profit by pulling in new money, or by cutting costs on existing practices and making more money that way. This is what ultimately drives 95% of corporate business decisions. (The remaining 5% is the arrogance of execs)
Hasbro overall is not making enough new money - mostly due to the toy arm performing poorly - to drive growth so it has to choose the cost cutting option. They are getting these costs savings from a few things, but laying people is a big part of them.
If they only cut jobs in main Hasbro and not in WotC then they would be basically be admitting that the entire toy-making arm of their business is a lame duck.
That would have a high risk of scaring off investors, and might just be something that a lot of the Hasbro old guard are unwilling to admit regardless.
So, they go ahead and cut jobs in the arm of the business that is still making them money to avoid having to acknowledge just how desperately dependent on it they are. Awful logically, but they are being driven by shareholder and market perceptions, not actual facts.
Hasbro overall is not making enough new money - mostly due to the toy arm performing poorly - to drive growth so it has to choose the cost cutting option. They are getting these costs savings from a few things, but laying people is a big part of them.
If indeed, this information is accurate, the mystery surrounding that whole OGL bull may be the least of Hasbro's financial troubles.
For over a year, a certain retail manager from a notable retail book store has revealed to me for years shoplifting has been a serious problem for their D&D merchandise: particularly miniatures, dice sets, and other small items that can easily be carried out of the brick & mortar building.
Certainly does not help matters much when the D&D section of merchandise is located directly next to the customer's bathroom if you understand my meaning.
This problem is occurring in 1 location here in the Southern region of the U.S.
Can you imagine retail store theft happening in more rural & economicially depressed areas of the U.S.?
This problem also extends to their Magic: The Gathering card sets, especially inside retail outlets such as Wal*Mart.
Would not be surprised if stolen D&D and Magic: The Gathering merchandise is currently sold online, as well.
You stated they had little choice, they have THE choice. That was the fact check.
They can also change it. It might not be easy but it can be done.
I am not pretending to be a tax expert or to know the ins and outs of Hasbro/WotC's business, but I can look up things like this.
I am not against Hasbro/WotC, but after the last 12-18 months I am just over giving them the benefit of doubt, everything they have botched could have been handled way better.
Either they need more direction and supervision before creating these PR nightmares, or they simply do not care about the fallout from them.
One of the biggest accounting principles is consistency. One of the key things that make financial statements useful is their consistency. You want to compare ripe fuji apples to ripe fuji apples, year after year, on the same month and day. You do not really want to compare ripe fuji apples to green fuji apples, let alone granny smith apples, pears, oranges, or bananas. Companies do change their fiscal year occasionally, but those changes are few and far between. Like once or twice over the life of the business type of rare. And once a business hits a certain size, the cost of changing the fiscal year can get really high, while the benefit from doing so is generally low, and that makes it impractical to do so. You also do not want shareholders and investors complaining about frivolous changes and calling their own lawyers and accountants, and then the IRS and SEC might get involved, and all those investigations would just be a pain in the ass to deal with. Keep in mind all those things also cost money to deal with (accountants and lawyers are not cheap), and that money that could have been better spent retaining existing employees, or better severance packages for laid-off employees to make re-attracting talent easier when business is doing well and hiring again.
You do not have to give Hasbro the benefit of the doubt. Be vocal about your displeasure that key employees are being let go. However, changing the fiscal year really is not the way to go about it. Vote for better labor laws and write to your representative about making the tax code easier. Or simply vote with your wallet and do not buy from Hasbro. Support the your favorite creators when they leave Hasbro and make their own products.
Violating consistency without a valid reason is a big no-no in accounting, and firing people until after the holidays unfortunately is not a good enough reason. Due to the sheer cost of doing so, Hasbro will probably need to do an additional round of firing just to secure enough funds, and it makes more sense to spend that money retaining those employees.
It really surprised me at first to hear that some really big name talent got cut from WotC in this layoff. Some of these are core game developers and art/license wranglers that have been with WotC since the early development of 5E or longer. It's sad that so many got the chop right before the Gifting Day.
On the other hand, I guess we shouldn't be surprised given how many people in Tech and in Hollywood have gotten laid off over the past year. Perhaps we should be surprised that this layoff had not happened sooner.
I was watching a YT video the other day about the 2008 Recession, which made it clear that A) business had gotten used to low low interest rates for over a decade and their 5-year development plans had not anticipated the rapid return of pre-2008 interest rates; and B) real wealth growth has stagnated or declined on a global level since the 2008 Recession for most people not involved in finance and real estate. While on the one hand, D&D is a relatively inexpensive hobby for players, it's not actually cheap for DMs, who are the people who buy the most books/DDB subscriptions. So while WotC is getting the benefit of new players, the market for much of their newer product lines like Fizban's, Bigby's, Spelljammer are bottlenecked by the lack of new DMs, which is in turn related, in some ways, to the economic problems plaguing the world economy since 2008.
It really surprised me at first to hear that some really big name talent got cut from WotC in this layoff. Some of these are core game developers and art/license wranglers that have been with WotC since the early development of 5E or longer. It's sad that so many got the chop right before the Gifting Day.
On the other hand, I guess we shouldn't be surprised given how many people in Tech and in Hollywood have gotten laid off over the past year. Perhaps we should be surprised that this layoff had not happened sooner.
I was watching a YT video the other day about the 2008 Recession, which made it clear that A) business had gotten used to low low interest rates for over a decade and their 5-year development plans had not anticipated the rapid return of pre-2008 interest rates; and B) real wealth growth has stagnated or declined on a global level since the 2008 Recession for most people not involved in finance and real estate. While on the one hand, D&D is a relatively inexpensive hobby for players, it's not actually cheap for DMs, who are the people who buy the most books/DDB subscriptions. So while WotC is getting the benefit of new players, the market for much of their newer product lines like Fizban's, Bigby's, Spelljammer are bottlenecked by the lack of new DMs, which is in turn related, in some ways, to the economic problems plaguing the world economy since 2008.
Hasbro's 2023 4th quarter and 2024 1st quarter are going to be nightmares (the Larian gift will be essentially finished). The C-suite is banking on the 6e PHB to give them a solid 2nd quarter. Now, I have no clue what the sole real driver of profits at hasbro, that being MtG, is going to do in 2024, but if it has even the same sales as 2023, oh man...expect a whole lot more firings.
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You stated they had little choice, they have THE choice. That was the fact check.
They can also change it. It might not be easy but it can be done.
I am not pretending to be a tax expert or to know the ins and outs of Hasbro/WotC's business, but I can look up things like this.
I am not against Hasbro/WotC, but after the last 12-18 months I am just over giving them the benefit of doubt, everything they have botched could have been handled way better.
Either they need more direction and supervision before creating these PR nightmares, or they simply do not care about the fallout from them.
I am excited to see the next hold my beer moment from them, but deep down I wish they would stop shooting themselves in the foot and get back to making a game that makes money instead of trying to wring every cent from the game they can. I understand they need to make money, but there are many ways to do it and many examples of how it can be done this is one of them but it has the cost of PR.
Side note do you work for Hasbro/Wotc?
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Both. The community can scream until our lungs burst, but as long as they have customers who line up and continue to buy their products, they'll continue not giving a damn. Forget the facts, the bottom line is all the bean counters are checking.
Free Content: [Basic Rules],
[Phandelver],[Frozen Sick],[Acquisitions Inc.],[Vecna Dossier],[Radiant Citadel], [Spelljammer],[Dragonlance], [Prisoner 13],[Minecraft],[Star Forge], [Baldur’s Gate], [Lightning Keep], [Stormwreck Isle], [Pinebrook], [Caverns of Tsojcanth], [The Lost Horn], [Elemental Evil].Free Dice: [Frostmaiden],
[Flourishing], [Sanguine],[Themberchaud], [Baldur's Gate 3], [Lego].Guilty as charged! Just hoping for a sale on a few physical books in the next few months.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
No matter how you feel about WotC's last ~18 months I hope this makes you smile, I know there has to be someone at WotC that feels like the character behind this desk.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
I smiled, although somewhat sadly.
That said, I'm fairly certain that I have a nasty BBEG challenge tomorrow afternoon which, no matter the outcome, reminds me of why I play this game.
Neutral Good
Characters in active campaigns:
Rowan Wood elf, 10 Circle of Stars Druid
Wyll Forest Gnome, 4 Divination Wizard
There are plenty of the "cultist" that are sad about this too.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Yeah, I scroll through their angry little Reddit posts daily. My favorites are, "I now play 'this particular game and I've never looked back.' Then they constantly spam D&D subs. Like, check yourselves, dudes.
Edit to acknowledge that you changed "cultists" (my quote) to "players." Found another PF2e burner account, y'all.
Neutral Good
Characters in active campaigns:
Rowan Wood elf, 10 Circle of Stars Druid
Wyll Forest Gnome, 4 Divination Wizard
I changed it back lol. You quoted me while I was editing it, so I just put it back origional. No need to jump to conclusions, the reason I changed it is I didn't want to sound snarky as I meant it light hearted but wasn't sure it would be taken that way. No burner account here. You are a little fast and lose with those labels aren't you?
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
I'd insight check the hell out of this in my game. But okay, whatever.
Neutral Good
Characters in active campaigns:
Rowan Wood elf, 10 Circle of Stars Druid
Wyll Forest Gnome, 4 Divination Wizard
How would you like my post to read, same as quoted, or as I altered it? You have advantage. I stand by both.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
You ultimately decided on "Cultist[s]," my own derisive term for those who relentlessly spam D&D subs and forums with their 'latest, greatest, whatever,' which was my original intent. So I am pleased with your final edit. "Players," at least on this particular forum, means D&D players. These two labels are not interchangeable. They both mean very different things to me.
So, if you're so inclined, where do you actually land?
Neutral Good
Characters in active campaigns:
Rowan Wood elf, 10 Circle of Stars Druid
Wyll Forest Gnome, 4 Divination Wizard
If by land you mean WotC basher or fan boi, then center basher. I want WotC to excel, I do not agree with many/most of the things they have fumbled this year or so but I do understand they are profit driven by law. I just think they should be sticking a few ASI point in charisma. While I understand the why it does not mean I agree with it and will point it out. Other than that WotC gonna WotC.
Don't and will likely not use any VTT unless another DM uses one at an in person game
Maps is looking good even in beta
No interest in the upcoming rule books
Love the last few adventures I bought and will continue to purchase the ones that appeal to me
Love the character creator/sheets warts and all
Love playing the game and getting new players to a game
Have several games going at the moment
Rarely talk about Hasbro/Wotc outside this forum.
Basically love Wotc but if their going to act foolish I will call them a fool.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Given that wealth of information, I could happily play at your table. I regret the 'burner' comment.
Gonna invest in the new rule books, though, because I think they are a needed improvement.
Neutral Good
Characters in active campaigns:
Rowan Wood elf, 10 Circle of Stars Druid
Wyll Forest Gnome, 4 Divination Wizard
If he did I doubt he'd be posting here. What a silly question.
Something occurred to me after a little thought about why these layoffs are hitting WotC as well as core Hasbro:
Businesses get investment if they can be expected to show "growth". This growth can either come from expanding the market and making more profit by pulling in new money, or by cutting costs on existing practices and making more money that way. This is what ultimately drives 95% of corporate business decisions. (The remaining 5% is the arrogance of execs)
Hasbro overall is not making enough new money - mostly due to the toy arm performing poorly - to drive growth so it has to choose the cost cutting option. They are getting these costs savings from a few things, but laying people is a big part of them.
If they only cut jobs in main Hasbro and not in WotC then they would be basically be admitting that the entire toy-making arm of their business is a lame duck.
That would have a high risk of scaring off investors, and might just be something that a lot of the Hasbro old guard are unwilling to admit regardless.
So, they go ahead and cut jobs in the arm of the business that is still making them money to avoid having to acknowledge just how desperately dependent on it they are. Awful logically, but they are being driven by shareholder and market perceptions, not actual facts.
If indeed, this information is accurate, the mystery surrounding that whole OGL bull may be the least of Hasbro's financial troubles.
For over a year, a certain retail manager from a notable retail book store has revealed to me for years shoplifting has been a serious problem for their D&D merchandise: particularly miniatures, dice sets, and other small items that can easily be carried out of the brick & mortar building.
Certainly does not help matters much when the D&D section of merchandise is located directly next to the customer's bathroom if you understand my meaning.
This problem is occurring in 1 location here in the Southern region of the U.S.
Can you imagine retail store theft happening in more rural & economicially depressed areas of the U.S.?
This problem also extends to their Magic: The Gathering card sets, especially inside retail outlets such as Wal*Mart.
Would not be surprised if stolen D&D and Magic: The Gathering merchandise is currently sold online, as well.
One of the biggest accounting principles is consistency. One of the key things that make financial statements useful is their consistency. You want to compare ripe fuji apples to ripe fuji apples, year after year, on the same month and day. You do not really want to compare ripe fuji apples to green fuji apples, let alone granny smith apples, pears, oranges, or bananas. Companies do change their fiscal year occasionally, but those changes are few and far between. Like once or twice over the life of the business type of rare. And once a business hits a certain size, the cost of changing the fiscal year can get really high, while the benefit from doing so is generally low, and that makes it impractical to do so. You also do not want shareholders and investors complaining about frivolous changes and calling their own lawyers and accountants, and then the IRS and SEC might get involved, and all those investigations would just be a pain in the ass to deal with. Keep in mind all those things also cost money to deal with (accountants and lawyers are not cheap), and that money that could have been better spent retaining existing employees, or better severance packages for laid-off employees to make re-attracting talent easier when business is doing well and hiring again.
You do not have to give Hasbro the benefit of the doubt. Be vocal about your displeasure that key employees are being let go. However, changing the fiscal year really is not the way to go about it. Vote for better labor laws and write to your representative about making the tax code easier. Or simply vote with your wallet and do not buy from Hasbro. Support the your favorite creators when they leave Hasbro and make their own products.
Violating consistency without a valid reason is a big no-no in accounting, and firing people until after the holidays unfortunately is not a good enough reason. Due to the sheer cost of doing so, Hasbro will probably need to do an additional round of firing just to secure enough funds, and it makes more sense to spend that money retaining those employees.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
It might be silly, but I support Kazakingpoodle's chutzpah for asking.
It really surprised me at first to hear that some really big name talent got cut from WotC in this layoff. Some of these are core game developers and art/license wranglers that have been with WotC since the early development of 5E or longer. It's sad that so many got the chop right before the Gifting Day.
On the other hand, I guess we shouldn't be surprised given how many people in Tech and in Hollywood have gotten laid off over the past year. Perhaps we should be surprised that this layoff had not happened sooner.
I was watching a YT video the other day about the 2008 Recession, which made it clear that A) business had gotten used to low low interest rates for over a decade and their 5-year development plans had not anticipated the rapid return of pre-2008 interest rates; and B) real wealth growth has stagnated or declined on a global level since the 2008 Recession for most people not involved in finance and real estate. While on the one hand, D&D is a relatively inexpensive hobby for players, it's not actually cheap for DMs, who are the people who buy the most books/DDB subscriptions. So while WotC is getting the benefit of new players, the market for much of their newer product lines like Fizban's, Bigby's, Spelljammer are bottlenecked by the lack of new DMs, which is in turn related, in some ways, to the economic problems plaguing the world economy since 2008.
Hasbro's 2023 4th quarter and 2024 1st quarter are going to be nightmares (the Larian gift will be essentially finished). The C-suite is banking on the 6e PHB to give them a solid 2nd quarter. Now, I have no clue what the sole real driver of profits at hasbro, that being MtG, is going to do in 2024, but if it has even the same sales as 2023, oh man...expect a whole lot more firings.