Metamagic already does something like spell points for filling in additional slots or trading up what you have.
Yeah, but it falls short. The added flexibility that spell points allows when it comes to lower level spells really goes a lot further than Font does when it comes to offsetting the restricted spell access that sorcerers face.
Metamagic already does something like spell points for filling in additional slots or trading up what you have.
Yeah, but it falls short. The added flexibility that spell points allows when it comes to lower level spells really goes a lot further than Font does when it comes to offsetting the restricted spell access that sorcerers face.
Not sure what the difference is unless it's just about how many slots you can make; you can make slots from levels 1-5 and break them apart for points to make others if you want.
Metamagic already does something like spell points for filling in additional slots or trading up what you have.
Yeah, but it falls short. The added flexibility that spell points allows when it comes to lower level spells really goes a lot further than Font does when it comes to offsetting the restricted spell access that sorcerers face.
Not sure what the difference is unless it's just about how many slots you can make; you can make slots from levels 1-5 and break them apart for points to make others if you want.
Converting spell slots to Sorcery Points and back again is, like, the single least cost effective way to utilize Sorcery Points. Burning unnecessary Spell Slots for Sorcery Points to fuel Metamagics is a far, far more cost effective use. With Spell Points however, casting spells of 1st- through 5th-levels becomes inherently far more fluid, and converting Spell Points to Sorcery Points is still possible. So on any given adventuring day you can cast whatever combination of low to mid level spells you need without having to spend a tax (and action economy) to convert your Spell Slots around, and you can make full use of your Sorcery Points to fuel your Metamagic options too. That added flexibility really does make quite a difference when one has an already restricted number of spells they have access too.
Metamagic already does something like spell points for filling in additional slots or trading up what you have.
Yeah, but it falls short. The added flexibility that spell points allows when it comes to lower level spells really goes a lot further than Font does when it comes to offsetting the restricted spell access that sorcerers face.
Not sure what the difference is unless it's just about how many slots you can make; you can make slots from levels 1-5 and break them apart for points to make others if you want.
Converting spell slots to Sorcery Points and back again is, like, the single least cost effective way to utilize Sorcery Points. Burning unnecessary Spell Slots for Sorcery Points to fuel Metamagics is a far, far more cost effective use. With Spell Points however, casting spells of 1st- through 5th-levels becomes inherently far more fluid, and converting Spell Points to Sorcery Points is still possible. So on any given adventuring day you can cast whatever combination of low to mid level spells you need without having to spend a tax (and action economy) to convert your Spell Slots around, and you can make full use of your Sorcery Points to fuel your Metamagic options too. That added flexibility really does make quite a difference when one has an already restricted number of spells they have access too.
The cost to create spells from Metamagic points is exactly the same as spell point cost. And if it was actually efficient, it'd be broken, since if you got the number of points needed to create a slot of that level, you could literally have 5 3rd level slots at 5th level, returning us to the previously discussed issue of spell points wrecking what little balance spellcasters have.
Metamagic already does something like spell points for filling in additional slots or trading up what you have.
Yeah, but it falls short. The added flexibility that spell points allows when it comes to lower level spells really goes a lot further than Font does when it comes to offsetting the restricted spell access that sorcerers face.
Not sure what the difference is unless it's just about how many slots you can make; you can make slots from levels 1-5 and break them apart for points to make others if you want.
Converting spell slots to Sorcery Points and back again is, like, the single least cost effective way to utilize Sorcery Points. Burning unnecessary Spell Slots for Sorcery Points to fuel Metamagics is a far, far more cost effective use. With Spell Points however, casting spells of 1st- through 5th-levels becomes inherently far more fluid, and converting Spell Points to Sorcery Points is still possible. So on any given adventuring day you can cast whatever combination of low to mid level spells you need without having to spend a tax (and action economy) to convert your Spell Slots around, and you can make full use of your Sorcery Points to fuel your Metamagic options too. That added flexibility really does make quite a difference when one has an already restricted number of spells they have access too.
The cost to create spells from Metamagic points is exactly the same as spell point cost. And if it was actually efficient, it'd be broken, since if you got the number of points needed to create a slot of that level, you could literally have 5 3rd level slots at 5th level, returning us to the previously discussed issue of spell points wrecking what little balance spellcasters have.
Yes, the cost to purchase a Spell Slot with either type of Points (Spell or Sorcery) is exactly the same, however you skip the step of having to sell of the existing Spell Slots to purchase the additional points, which is when you really pay the tax on the process. And if it’s only Sorcerers who use Spell Points and every other caster uses the standard Spell Slots system, it actually brings Sorcerers up to roughly par with the other major spellcasters in the game. As is they have the smallest number of spells known, and the smallest selection of spells to choose from. This slight little edge actually balances Sorcerers better with Wizards and Bards and Druids (oh my).
Having read all your commertts, I find it somewhat sad that the general feeling is that spell points (even in the official form) are going away, and that most people don't want to use them anyway. I really find magic in D&D to feel very restricted, formulaic and boring. Even sorcerers, who are supposed to be the kings and queens of spontaneous magic have to stick to a script. The script is a little looser for them, but they are scripted none the less.
To me, magic is born from chaos.
Wizards control chaos through careful study and preparation
Sorcerers feel the chaos living inside of them and instinctively know how to ride its ebbs and flows
Bards, like sorcerers have a natural affinity for chaos, although their affinity is external not internal, and they use that affinity to weave chaos into mood and emotion
Warlocks trade their very being to become chaos itself -- they are the heart of chaos personified..
Druids are a force of nature, ever changing. If warlocks are the heart of chaos, then druids are its imagination - a dream givien form (for a time)
But however you get your magic, you are by your very nature, a child of chaos, and as such, you have a degree of control over the fundamental building blocks of existence, allowing you to bend it to your will, your designs.
But the magic in D&D feels stale and sterile, as if it has been stripped of all its beauty and wonder -- like life with all the colors drained away, magic in D&D is grey and drab because its shoved down into this little box called a spell slot where's there's no room for it to simply be its true, wondrous, chaotically beautiful and vibrant self.
It makes me sad.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
I think a lot of people here would prefer to at East have the option available. I certainly would. The problem is that it's an optional extra, and it hasn't been done already so it's unlikely to be done. Personally, this is something that really bugs me about DDB - there is a whole bunch of stuff that just isn't implemented. For a site that's meant to encompass all of D-D and to simplify my experience, that's something that's off-putting. Yeah I know there are hacks for it, but I shouldn't have to hack it in.
Most of the objections in the thread isn't towards spell points per se, but the convoluted modifications intended to "fix" the system that just exponentially increase complexity, like having to track time by the hour and so forth.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I I can see why they did not implement the system - it is a core functionality to the game, and that probably means a substantial overhaul of their core programming to make work. This is not just some minor option where a toggle enables some new features, this toggle would fundamentally change how an entire aspect of the character sheet works. That is a lot of work—and, at this point, is a lot of work which might produce a fair number of bugs given its late-stage implementation.
And, what does all that work get you? A system many players do not know about, many DMs probably would not allow; a system which fundamentally exacerbates a well-known issue in D&D (martial-caster divides), and which encourages more linear, repetitive gameplay.
But the magic in D&D feels stale and sterile, as if it has been stripped of all its beauty and wonder -- like life with all the colors drained away, magic in D&D is grey and drab because its shoved down into this little box called a spell slot where's there's no room for it to simply be its true, wondrous, chaotically beautiful and vibrant self.
Spell points exacerbate this problem, not fix it. Both spell points and spell slots are administratively heavy—one involves checking off boxes, the other involves tallying up numbers—which leads to a feeling of sterility. But Spell Points, in being more flexible, will ultimately reduce the flexibility of their usage for the majority of players.
With spell slots, a mid-to-high level full caster has enough first, second, third spell slots that they can use them in a fairly cavalier manner. Those slots do not “waste” uses of high-level spells, so there is no reason not to brandish them about. With spell points, however, brandishing these low level spells about eats into your resources for high level casting—that means you are disincentivized from casting low-level spells at all, unless the need for the spell arises. Low-level spells go from “something I can use for all kinds of fun purposes” to “only take the silver bullet spells that might be worth spending resources on.”
Spell points ultimately look like they allow more flexibility, but, in terms of actual effect, if used optimally, they overwhelmingly reduce the “chaos” and “life” from the magic system by encouraging a style of play focused on getting the most bang from each spell point—which means casting the same basic spells every time you want to use them.
Fun fact: a point system of sorts was what some (or one person) at TSR initially wanted to incorporate, but instead went with adding casting times, material components etc.
The only time the point system came about was later in Basic D&D under the Immortals rules. They actually started off with points and it cost a certain amount of points to cast a spell depending on it's level and type. As you went up levels you gained more points so you can cast more powerful spells. Of course this was later revised in a new Immortals book where you still had points, but you didn't have to worry about the cost of points per effect, just spell level.
I felt much the same way, though for me it was specifically for the Sorcerer that I wanted to give more of an identity. So I ended up writing a userscript that allows for fairly seamless usage of spellpoints in DnDBeyond, and works for every class: https://github.com/Mwr247/DnDBeyondSpellPointsV2
It's V2 because the original version only saved to the browser, but this version saves the the character sheet, allowing you use it across multiple devices so long as you have the script added.
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Yeah, but it falls short. The added flexibility that spell points allows when it comes to lower level spells really goes a lot further than Font does when it comes to offsetting the restricted spell access that sorcerers face.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Not sure what the difference is unless it's just about how many slots you can make; you can make slots from levels 1-5 and break them apart for points to make others if you want.
Converting spell slots to Sorcery Points and back again is, like, the single least cost effective way to utilize Sorcery Points. Burning unnecessary Spell Slots for Sorcery Points to fuel Metamagics is a far, far more cost effective use. With Spell Points however, casting spells of 1st- through 5th-levels becomes inherently far more fluid, and converting Spell Points to Sorcery Points is still possible. So on any given adventuring day you can cast whatever combination of low to mid level spells you need without having to spend a tax (and action economy) to convert your Spell Slots around, and you can make full use of your Sorcery Points to fuel your Metamagic options too. That added flexibility really does make quite a difference when one has an already restricted number of spells they have access too.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
The cost to create spells from Metamagic points is exactly the same as spell point cost. And if it was actually efficient, it'd be broken, since if you got the number of points needed to create a slot of that level, you could literally have 5 3rd level slots at 5th level, returning us to the previously discussed issue of spell points wrecking what little balance spellcasters have.
Yes, the cost to purchase a Spell Slot with either type of Points (Spell or Sorcery) is exactly the same, however you skip the step of having to sell of the existing Spell Slots to purchase the additional points, which is when you really pay the tax on the process. And if it’s only Sorcerers who use Spell Points and every other caster uses the standard Spell Slots system, it actually brings Sorcerers up to roughly par with the other major spellcasters in the game. As is they have the smallest number of spells known, and the smallest selection of spells to choose from. This slight little edge actually balances Sorcerers better with Wizards and Bards and Druids (oh my).
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Having read all your commertts, I find it somewhat sad that the general feeling is that spell points (even in the official form) are going away, and that most people don't want to use them anyway. I really find magic in D&D to feel very restricted, formulaic and boring. Even sorcerers, who are supposed to be the kings and queens of spontaneous magic have to stick to a script. The script is a little looser for them, but they are scripted none the less.
To me, magic is born from chaos.
But however you get your magic, you are by your very nature, a child of chaos, and as such, you have a degree of control over the fundamental building blocks of existence, allowing you to bend it to your will, your designs.
But the magic in D&D feels stale and sterile, as if it has been stripped of all its beauty and wonder -- like life with all the colors drained away, magic in D&D is grey and drab because its shoved down into this little box called a spell slot where's there's no room for it to simply be its true, wondrous, chaotically beautiful and vibrant self.
It makes me sad.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
I think a lot of people here would prefer to at East have the option available. I certainly would. The problem is that it's an optional extra, and it hasn't been done already so it's unlikely to be done. Personally, this is something that really bugs me about DDB - there is a whole bunch of stuff that just isn't implemented. For a site that's meant to encompass all of D-D and to simplify my experience, that's something that's off-putting. Yeah I know there are hacks for it, but I shouldn't have to hack it in.
Most of the objections in the thread isn't towards spell points per se, but the convoluted modifications intended to "fix" the system that just exponentially increase complexity, like having to track time by the hour and so forth.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I I can see why they did not implement the system - it is a core functionality to the game, and that probably means a substantial overhaul of their core programming to make work. This is not just some minor option where a toggle enables some new features, this toggle would fundamentally change how an entire aspect of the character sheet works. That is a lot of work—and, at this point, is a lot of work which might produce a fair number of bugs given its late-stage implementation.
And, what does all that work get you? A system many players do not know about, many DMs probably would not allow; a system which fundamentally exacerbates a well-known issue in D&D (martial-caster divides), and which encourages more linear, repetitive gameplay.
Spell points exacerbate this problem, not fix it. Both spell points and spell slots are administratively heavy—one involves checking off boxes, the other involves tallying up numbers—which leads to a feeling of sterility. But Spell Points, in being more flexible, will ultimately reduce the flexibility of their usage for the majority of players.
With spell slots, a mid-to-high level full caster has enough first, second, third spell slots that they can use them in a fairly cavalier manner. Those slots do not “waste” uses of high-level spells, so there is no reason not to brandish them about. With spell points, however, brandishing these low level spells about eats into your resources for high level casting—that means you are disincentivized from casting low-level spells at all, unless the need for the spell arises. Low-level spells go from “something I can use for all kinds of fun purposes” to “only take the silver bullet spells that might be worth spending resources on.”
Spell points ultimately look like they allow more flexibility, but, in terms of actual effect, if used optimally, they overwhelmingly reduce the “chaos” and “life” from the magic system by encouraging a style of play focused on getting the most bang from each spell point—which means casting the same basic spells every time you want to use them.
Fun fact: a point system of sorts was what some (or one person) at TSR initially wanted to incorporate, but instead went with adding casting times, material components etc.
The only time the point system came about was later in Basic D&D under the Immortals rules. They actually started off with points and it cost a certain amount of points to cast a spell depending on it's level and type. As you went up levels you gained more points so you can cast more powerful spells. Of course this was later revised in a new Immortals book where you still had points, but you didn't have to worry about the cost of points per effect, just spell level.
I felt much the same way, though for me it was specifically for the Sorcerer that I wanted to give more of an identity. So I ended up writing a userscript that allows for fairly seamless usage of spellpoints in DnDBeyond, and works for every class:
https://github.com/Mwr247/DnDBeyondSpellPointsV2
It's V2 because the original version only saved to the browser, but this version saves the the character sheet, allowing you use it across multiple devices so long as you have the script added.