I've been around this hobby for over a decade, playing and DMing for people since I was in my early teens with 3E. Some of my favorite memories include myself and a group of friends sharing food and memories playing dungeons and dragons and using some of the amazing written content from their monster manuals and occasionally using some pre-written modules to pad games for when I was too lazy to cobble together a set of self-made quest lines.
That being said, I can't help but to notice the huge downfall in quality content that has come to the forefront of their recent books, whether it be lackluster monsters, ill-thought modules, or just a general lack of detail in most of the things they've produced recently. It seems to have started with the Spelljammer books. I was unbelievably excited to have seen Spelljammer come back to D&D and pre-ordered it in a heartbeat, expecting to see in-depth lore about different ships, new races, and some astral-space themed sub-classes that I would be able to sink my teeth into and get my players into a more sci-fi esque world. Unfortunately I only really got a few new races out of what I was hoping for. The content for ship combat was non-existent and I had to purchase third party content and original 2E books to actually get any lore on the locations on the Rock of Bral and the citizens on it, and run a space combat that was more than just "Use this other content to run ship combat for Spelljammer". It hurt to read through the books and see the lack of effort put into it.
But alas, there were other books I was excited about as well, surely they couldn't mess up a book dedicated to fleshing out giants and another to flesh out more dragons, but once again I was met with the same lackluster content, and worse yet art generated by AI. I know that WoTC said they were not aware of the art and the artist had worked with them previously so they trusted them, but was there no quality control? Was there no one even looking at the art beyond a quick glance and saying "Well that looks like a giant so that's fine."? The Glory of Giants book barely even had lore pertaining to the giants to begin with, I was expecting to see runecrafting and deep lore about where the giants came from and the gods connected to them, and maybe some callbacks to previous editions lore but there was next to nothing actually explaining anything further than base level knowledge that was already accessible through the monster manuals explaining them.
Then theres the layoffs. More layoffs than I'd like to see any company make, let alone massive cuts to anyone even tangentially related to my beloved ttrpg. They have gotten rid of entire departments just to bump up a stock price for a mere moment, before it came crashing down twice as far as it had gone up, and at the cost of D&D being able to produce content at a normal rate. The new edition now won't have a monster manual release until next year, and every other book seems to have been pushed back at least several months if not more than what was hinted at in previous newsletters and posts.
I want the old Wizards back. I want the company that was passionate about the game they were making and the players they were making it for. I want to be able to play this game with my friends again and get excited every time I pick up a new book, but in the current state of things I can't confidently say I'll be buying anything from them before reading/watching half a dozen reviews on it to make sure it's worth the paper it's printed on. I want to believe the soul of WoTC is still there but it seems to be drifting farther and farther away with each passing day.
Hasbro, Wizards, D&D community as a whole, please tell me that there is light at the end of this tunnel, and hope for the future, because right now I'm having trouble seeing it.
No the first time, not the last time D&D has been altered.
still here after 50 years, who knows?
I'm fine with the alterations, never had a problem going from crunchy 3-3.5E to 5E, but the quality drop is palpable.
Plenty of long standing companies have gone under after more time and I've seen the trends of steady decline in the last few years, doesn't exactly fill one with hope.
If you are looking for hope, then you should look to the motivations behind the present round of products—the overwhelming majority of products released have been designed specifically to give players things they wanted. Planescape, Spelljammer, and Dragonlance were all heavily requested settings. More books like Candlekeep Mysteries were desired by home brewers, since they could be slotted into homebrew easily—and Wizards has released multiple books with that design since. Lack of high level content led to the Dragon and Giant books, as well as the Vecna adventure next year. Everything about the 2024 revision has been driven by players (frankly, I think perhaps a little too much).
One can judge whether the implementation of those products has been good or bad, but the underlying constant is that WotC does understand what the players want and is attempting to deliver on those desires—that, at least, is cause for optimism.
I’ve seen the decline since 2020 with janky Echo Knights, busted Chronurgists, socially invincible Eloquence Bards, Tasha’s Train Wreck of Everything taking the laziest possible route to unmoor racial ASIs and also introducing two OP Cleric Domains and Custom Lineage. Also pre-SJ WotC threw out the old Ravenloft lore in favor of shallower worldbuilding.
If you are looking for hope, then you should look to the motivations behind the present round of products—the overwhelming majority of products released have been designed specifically to give players things they wanted. Planescape, Spelljammer, and Dragonlance were all heavily requested settings. More books like Candlekeep Mysteries were desired by home brewers, since they could be slotted into homebrew easily—and Wizards has released multiple books with that design since. Lack of high level content led to the Dragon and Giant books, as well as the Vecna adventure next year. Everything about the 2024 revision has been driven by players (frankly, I think perhaps a little too much).
One can judge whether the implementation of those products has been good or bad, but the under constant is that WotC does understand what the players want and is attempting to deliver on those desires—that, at least, is cause for optimism.
I would argue that the implementation of said products is more important than the setting of them. Like I brought up in my initial post Spelljammer was lacking the basic mechanics for ship to ship combat which is a pretty big deal considering that was the entire settings namesake. Actually fleshing out the lore was supposed to be the point of books like Glory of the Giants and Fizbans, but the lore there was surface level at best. Why even buy the book if it's encouraging the use of so much homebrew that you need to create your own mechanics or lore?
Honestly, there were issues going back before Spelljammer. What Spelljammer did was blow wide open and point a neon sign at the problems. Because the issue was jumped on by so-called SJWs and turned into social media incident (rather than just the odd complaint that gets shouted down by WotC-Bros), Spelljammer gets the flak...but the issues were there a while, they just became undeniable with Spelljammer. I'm not going to repeat the list of issues, I've already done so more times than I'd like, but one of the key underlining ones was a lack of proper quality control.
Spelljammer would never have passed muster if they'd been properly vetting the work they were producing, on several fronts. But there's always been issues with it, things that if they'd gotten someone to actually read it with a critical eye would have been picked up and fixed...but never were. When we got to Spelljammer it just became undeniable.
The good news is that there is good reason to believe the issues are going to be resolved.
1. Remember that we've just come through the pandemic, WotC would have been hit by the same productivity issues as everyone else. They seemed to have taken the stance of "just keep your foot in the door" - keep producing tons of stuff to maintain themselves as the flagship TTRPG, but the quality suffered. We're past that now, so we should see things reversing in that sense.
2. Their brand has been threatened, which motivates even the most greedy and corrupt of people to change (not that I'm accusing WotC of being that bad).
3. They have 1D&D coming up, which meant that a lot of attention was on that rather than releases that were intended to keep the game ticking over while they got it ready. It's almost done, so their attention *should* come back.
4. They have shown some signs of improving, like BoMT. Ok, granted, I don't know enough about the process to say if they should have caught it much earlier, but at least they did do something, and did so without the customers having to light a fire under their butts. That's definitely a step in the right direction at least.
5. To be honest, I think they fell into complacency with such a large market share and fell into the mindset of "having done it" - I hope that they've received enough slaps to have woken out of that and realised that to maintain their share, they need to continue to provide strong products. We just need to continue to call them out when they do something wrong (remembering to keep it appropriate and fair - a lot of the stuff being said at times went too far).
I think there's good reason to be optimistic about D&D. They had a rough patch, but there's also strong potential for it to be over soon with good times ahead. I'm keeping a close eye on Vecna (heh).
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
...what above post said, plus (for me) the wider issue seems to be the player base. I'd love to blame mobile phones, twitter and media in general, but I think that WOTC's just going with the trend here - nobody reads (much) anymore. That seems to be the demographic WOTC are going for - people that zone out after a few minutes of reading. "Nerd" isn't a culture anymore, it's a t-shirt slogan and I can't blame WOTC for leaning into it (cheaper/more profitable). I can't name a single 5e publication that's done anything to spur my imagination other than the odd reminder that I've got the 2nd/3rd/4th edition version of that book and "I'll need to dig that out to look for the Lore". I'm running my final D&D Campaign and when it wraps I'll move on to another system to GM.
I am happy with Wizards overall. I do not see an issue with their quality. However, I am disappointed in the lack of content in some books and poor organization of content in general.
My main gripe with S:AIS is the severe lack of content; the quality of stuff that is in the book is fine, it is just that there is not a lot of stuff. There is not a lot of Spelljammers, there is a very limited amount of monsters, and there are literally only two new magic items. Similarly, while P:AITM is a bit better than S:AIS, it is still pretty lacking. The amount of info on Sigil and the Outlands is pretty lean, which would have been fine if they also talked about the various planes, but they completely ignored that, so it feels like I am ordering a steak dinner and they completely forgot about the sides. The amount magic items is just as abysmal at just three. The bestiary section also felt equally small.
I am also a little annoyed at how books are organized. Source books generally should not mix player facing content with GM facing content together, and source books and adventure books definitely should not even mix at all. The lack of content in certain books also signficantly exacerbates the disorganized mess in some books, since it feels like they just grabbed a bit of stuff here and there and crammed it all together without thought or reason. For thematic books like FTOD, BP:GOTG, and TBOMT, mixing player and GM content is not ideal, but it is understandable and I think it is fine. However, books like XGTE, TCOE, and MP:MOTM should have been separated into at least two books each, and there is no reason to mix player and GM content together. I use the digital books so it is not too bad, but if I have to use only the physical books, as a GM, I do not want to go through player options just to get to the information I want to reference, and players do not need to chug around extra pages they are not going to use. The worst offenders are are S:AIS and P:AITM: at best, their adventures felt tacked on and unnecessary; at worst, those adventures are a complete waste of space. As a person who likes more setting information, the adventures cannibalizes valuable space for further information on the setting. And if I was as interested in adventures as I am about settings, I would probably be disappointed in how short the adventures are too. If I did not have Beyond's digital database, it would be an absolute pain in the ass digging through three or four separate books to look up monsters and magic items.
Realistically, I cannot see Wizards improving the poor organization of content in books at all. To increase the sellability of a book, it seems like books should offer both player and GM content, and unfortunately, it seems like only the core three are an exception to that rule. And books like S:AIS and P:AITM are even worse since they mix adventures into the source books, and since Wizards have to keep prices within a certain range, they have to limit the amount of content of each section. The lack of content could be fixed over time, but Wizards does not seem interested in releasing multiple sourcebooks for each setting to flesh things out.
Wizards also could do a lot better with their shipping and handling of physical books when they are selling the digital-physical bundle, but that is a simple issue to avoid by simply buying digital and physical books separately.
Do I think that they are making good choices? Generally, no. Do I think the quality has dropped? Yes. I'm I pleased with WotC/Hasbro? Definitely no.
That said I've been here since the 80s when this game was satanic and only for cultists and devil worshippers, and other kids would pick on you if they found out you played. I am not worried about the future of D&D. I'm worried about the QUALITY of D&D moving forward, I'm worried about the CONTENT of D&D and the MONETIZATION of D&D. But I am not worried that it's going be here.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
There's so many forces at play it is hard to say. I think Tasha's is great and VRGtR is what I'm looking for from a setting book. Where I feel some people go wrong is in the collector mentality that every new book is necessary and therefore has to be great (for them). Setting books in particular can cater to a niche group. Personally, I looked at Strixhaven, for example, as a sort of stepping stone to 5.24, with backgrounds that give a feat, like it was trying to bridge the gap between editions. And providing a magic school setting for pop culture reasons. I see the Vecna campaign and now I think that Spelljammer was almost like a token support book for this event in their roadmap, just there to check a box that they have a book for each verse you will go to during the Vecna campaign, so it makes sense (though still poor form, of course) that it was disappointing for many. In some sense I also think that after a few years it gets harder and harder to put out quality content as it can start to just be more, and their release schedule has been all about pumping out content. I agree there's some quality concerns but there's really good material that isn't going away.
I also think we tend to view things in the past with a golden sheen it might not deserve. Having watched some interviews and history that dispelled some of the assumptions I had about the effort and passion that went into some older material - like how balancing in modules was not always more complicated than figuring out the number of hits a creature should take, with nary a thought about how different classes might be uniquely useful throughout an adventure - and I see harsh criticisms of stuff I thought was great - like A2e with all the different supplements, I loved that, but other people hated it and had the same criticisms I think mirroring what we see here, that after a time the quality was not as good, or maybe moreso that some books are more niche.
That said, The Tower that is D&D has a deep crack in its foundation, and it has begun to fall. Their future plans seem to be to go top-heavy with VTT. The need to both purchase content AND pay for a subscription - multiple times - sucks hard, and DDB and their VTT could become the economical choice versus buying content for other VTT's and could include a bigger, consolidated player base on one VTT. I think if they go this direction it is a risk that the weight will carry the tower all the way over. Or it might push the tower down, effectively sealing the crack and stabilizing the Tower, but ultimately continuing stunted, bound by the limitations and the adoption rate of their VTT.
Even if D&D dies, I think it will make its death saves and pop back up, and there's tons of great TTRPG's to explore anyway. And there is still such a huge amount of passion and soul in the community, so many great settings and campaigns on crowdfunding and drivethrurpg. You can still find the golden glow of halcyion days in recent 5e/5e compatible products, and across other TTRPG's, so long as you don't need a specific brand stamped on it.
Dont put your heart or belief in companies that dont make good product. Might make you sad, we all assume AAA companies can do a good job, time has shown otherwise.
Indie companies are making great content.
Pen and Paper is just rules. Rules can be hacked / edited / copied into a better version.
Gaming is getting better, it just may not come from AAA studios
Microsoft execs see Counter-strike / Fortnight / League of Legends / Dota/ Gaas - games as a service as their go to.
The thing the dont see is why those games are successful. They think Games as a service makes money PERIOD.
Disney was not much different, they bought Lucus Arts and Marvel. Just because you own IPs does not mean you know why they are good or how to make money from them.
Larian Studios might make WOTCs mouth water.... however good luck making a game even close with whatever studio your going to higher.
BG3's success is not from WOTC or the Dungeon and Dragons franchise, its from Larian themselves, they made Divinity 1 and 2 winning awards for those games.
WOTC success maybe getting to their head. Critical Role if you look at Google Trends and DnD they take off around the same time.
BG3 and Critical Roles success is not WOTC created or driven.
Microsoft execs, there is no fast easy way to be collecting money. Make something good or high quality.
Most people may not pay for VTT. We have dice apps but still physically roll. Combat wise sure looks brilliant, but combat is the worst part of DnD. What about the human creativity/exploration or social encounters... dont need to pay monthly for that.
Your books are horrendous. Copy the design style like Necrotic Gnome - Quartershots - Dungeon Age - Ben Milton. Very hard to read for running as a DM
Make different formats - Self hack 5e. You can add a whole section called Optional Rule
- Take from Jane Austen Letter system.
- Take from Blades of the Dark clock and flashback mechanics
Any mode or format can be added as optional rules. This will give you guys a monopoly on systems. Take the best parts and make it Mainstream
You guys forget the best thing about WOTC is the First Factor like Coke or Nike.
Position yourself with the core mechanics of the next 5 popular games and take that market share Forever...
Also... how are you not on Netflix or Amazon yet. Get Whos line is it anyway or Any Comedian(British have lots) and start filming.
Even if you filmed them playing Mafia or Fiasco you would have a fan base and make money.
Also do you know who Ben Robbin is... Microscope and Kingdom... Hi-jack this worldbuilding mechanics and live stream famous people doing that and make it cannon.... comon guys thats marketing dream right there.
In so many ways you guys have 100s of ways to make your company thrive, your just not doing it.
Wizards (and TSR before it) putting out books of indifferent to poor quality is nothing new; they put out content based on what they think will make them money, not some ideal to make the best possible game, and it's been that way for decades, punctuated by periods where declining quality results in stuff not selling and they have to do a reset. 5e has, frankly, been one of the more disciplined editions of D&D, they were putting out mountains of garbage in late 2e and 3e (this didn't happen as noticeably in 4e, but that's mostly because 4e was in trouble from the start so they were never free to coast).
Nothing WotC can do with future products can hurt the game I am currently enjoying. It's really that simple.
The quality of WotC's 5e output has always been uneven. Folks bemoaning recent works forget about SCAG, and I can't think of a single adventure outside of maybe original Phandelver that isn't considered a mixed bag by player consensus, though admittedly it feels like there's been an uptick in product output, which to me feels sort of rushing stuff, largely 'namecheck' products ahead of the revised core which is either a big event or a business as usual event dependent on which sector of the DnD market the team's trying assuage.
I guess I'm immune to the worries tied to release schedules because as an older gamer I'm familiar with publishers sustaining their markets through bloating product lines. A lot of publishers did that back in the 80s and 90s. Nowadays few TTRPG publishers outside of WotC have the resources to "develop" (inflate) game lines that way, and I can only think of one, maybe two that do it well, but all those smaller publishers aren't beholden to market forces the way WotC is, so it's an entirely different game on the business side.
Nothing WotC can do with future products can hurt the game I am currently enjoying. It's really that simple.
The blessing of being in a position of being able to homebrew your own adventures. Unfortunately, some of us are beholden to the published adventures. Once I get to critical mass with the adventures, then it's less of an issue.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Nothing WotC can do with future products can hurt the game I am currently enjoying. It's really that simple.
The blessing of being in a position of being able to homebrew your own adventures. Unfortunately, some of us are beholden to the published adventures. Once I get to critical mass with the adventures, then it's less of an issue.
Honestly, I've felt the adventures in 5e have been mostly awful. If I could have the old 2e module style back rather than their attempt to create a sandboxy campaign that requires a lot more prep and work on the part of a DM, I'd take it. I'm fine with getting on the choo choo and riding the rails so to speak.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I use 3rd party 5E content and I use eBay and other means to get older content rather than give WotC revenue. By giving WotC revenue for how they are running D&D you are giving them positive reinforcement to continue putting out books that are a jumble of content (adventure 1-5, 1-4 spells/magic items/subclasses and 5-20 monsters) that don't serve anyone, they don't lead to good campaign play and tend to chase players away more than attract.
I see no other way of getting WotC to change their ways than to stop giving them money to reinforce their behavior. For as successful 5E was in its first 5 years, there should have been more than one bonus monster manual, they should have put out 4 monster manuals. Having to buy the expanded monster manual to fix WotC's decision on content is a head shaker at WotC. It seems like something went seriously wrong with 5E content about 5 years ago and WotC never fully recovered. Just look at Eberron Rising from the Last War, an awesome source book, but they never put out a full on campaign you could buy as a book to go with the source book. There was a slimmed down adventurer's league path, such a wasted opportunity at revenue, which would have kept more people employed at D&D.
Nothing WotC can do with future products can hurt the game I am currently enjoying. It's really that simple.
The blessing of being in a position of being able to homebrew your own adventures. Unfortunately, some of us are beholden to the published adventures. Once I get to critical mass with the adventures, then it's less of an issue.
Honestly, I've felt the adventures in 5e have been mostly awful. If I could have the old 2e module style back rather than their attempt to create a sandboxy campaign that requires a lot more prep and work on the part of a DM, I'd take it. I'm fine with getting on the choo choo and riding the rails so to speak.
I've got Tales from the Yawning Portal which are adventures from previous editions, and didn't really enjoy it. I enjoy the stories and don't mind putting in the effort to make them work. I just need the help of the bones of the story (preferably with some meat too). Different strokes I guess.
Not that I'd say 5e adventures are perfect. Contrary to many claims, I found LMoP quite disappointing, for example. Some at least are good enough and enjoyable.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
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I've been around this hobby for over a decade, playing and DMing for people since I was in my early teens with 3E. Some of my favorite memories include myself and a group of friends sharing food and memories playing dungeons and dragons and using some of the amazing written content from their monster manuals and occasionally using some pre-written modules to pad games for when I was too lazy to cobble together a set of self-made quest lines.
That being said, I can't help but to notice the huge downfall in quality content that has come to the forefront of their recent books, whether it be lackluster monsters, ill-thought modules, or just a general lack of detail in most of the things they've produced recently. It seems to have started with the Spelljammer books. I was unbelievably excited to have seen Spelljammer come back to D&D and pre-ordered it in a heartbeat, expecting to see in-depth lore about different ships, new races, and some astral-space themed sub-classes that I would be able to sink my teeth into and get my players into a more sci-fi esque world. Unfortunately I only really got a few new races out of what I was hoping for. The content for ship combat was non-existent and I had to purchase third party content and original 2E books to actually get any lore on the locations on the Rock of Bral and the citizens on it, and run a space combat that was more than just "Use this other content to run ship combat for Spelljammer". It hurt to read through the books and see the lack of effort put into it.
But alas, there were other books I was excited about as well, surely they couldn't mess up a book dedicated to fleshing out giants and another to flesh out more dragons, but once again I was met with the same lackluster content, and worse yet art generated by AI. I know that WoTC said they were not aware of the art and the artist had worked with them previously so they trusted them, but was there no quality control? Was there no one even looking at the art beyond a quick glance and saying "Well that looks like a giant so that's fine."? The Glory of Giants book barely even had lore pertaining to the giants to begin with, I was expecting to see runecrafting and deep lore about where the giants came from and the gods connected to them, and maybe some callbacks to previous editions lore but there was next to nothing actually explaining anything further than base level knowledge that was already accessible through the monster manuals explaining them.
Then theres the layoffs. More layoffs than I'd like to see any company make, let alone massive cuts to anyone even tangentially related to my beloved ttrpg. They have gotten rid of entire departments just to bump up a stock price for a mere moment, before it came crashing down twice as far as it had gone up, and at the cost of D&D being able to produce content at a normal rate. The new edition now won't have a monster manual release until next year, and every other book seems to have been pushed back at least several months if not more than what was hinted at in previous newsletters and posts.
I want the old Wizards back. I want the company that was passionate about the game they were making and the players they were making it for. I want to be able to play this game with my friends again and get excited every time I pick up a new book, but in the current state of things I can't confidently say I'll be buying anything from them before reading/watching half a dozen reviews on it to make sure it's worth the paper it's printed on. I want to believe the soul of WoTC is still there but it seems to be drifting farther and farther away with each passing day.
Hasbro, Wizards, D&D community as a whole, please tell me that there is light at the end of this tunnel, and hope for the future, because right now I'm having trouble seeing it.
Not the first time, not the last time D&D has been altered.
still here after 50 years, who knows?
I'm fine with the alterations, never had a problem going from crunchy 3-3.5E to 5E, but the quality drop is palpable.
Plenty of long standing companies have gone under after more time and I've seen the trends of steady decline in the last few years, doesn't exactly fill one with hope.
If you are looking for hope, then you should look to the motivations behind the present round of products—the overwhelming majority of products released have been designed specifically to give players things they wanted. Planescape, Spelljammer, and Dragonlance were all heavily requested settings. More books like Candlekeep Mysteries were desired by home brewers, since they could be slotted into homebrew easily—and Wizards has released multiple books with that design since. Lack of high level content led to the Dragon and Giant books, as well as the Vecna adventure next year. Everything about the 2024 revision has been driven by players (frankly, I think perhaps a little too much).
One can judge whether the implementation of those products has been good or bad, but the underlying constant is that WotC does understand what the players want and is attempting to deliver on those desires—that, at least, is cause for optimism.
I’ve seen the decline since 2020 with janky Echo Knights, busted Chronurgists, socially invincible Eloquence Bards, Tasha’s Train Wreck of Everything taking the laziest possible route to unmoor racial ASIs and also introducing two OP Cleric Domains and Custom Lineage. Also pre-SJ WotC threw out the old Ravenloft lore in favor of shallower worldbuilding.
I would argue that the implementation of said products is more important than the setting of them. Like I brought up in my initial post Spelljammer was lacking the basic mechanics for ship to ship combat which is a pretty big deal considering that was the entire settings namesake. Actually fleshing out the lore was supposed to be the point of books like Glory of the Giants and Fizbans, but the lore there was surface level at best. Why even buy the book if it's encouraging the use of so much homebrew that you need to create your own mechanics or lore?
Honestly, there were issues going back before Spelljammer. What Spelljammer did was blow wide open and point a neon sign at the problems. Because the issue was jumped on by so-called SJWs and turned into social media incident (rather than just the odd complaint that gets shouted down by WotC-Bros), Spelljammer gets the flak...but the issues were there a while, they just became undeniable with Spelljammer. I'm not going to repeat the list of issues, I've already done so more times than I'd like, but one of the key underlining ones was a lack of proper quality control.
Spelljammer would never have passed muster if they'd been properly vetting the work they were producing, on several fronts. But there's always been issues with it, things that if they'd gotten someone to actually read it with a critical eye would have been picked up and fixed...but never were. When we got to Spelljammer it just became undeniable.
The good news is that there is good reason to believe the issues are going to be resolved.
1. Remember that we've just come through the pandemic, WotC would have been hit by the same productivity issues as everyone else. They seemed to have taken the stance of "just keep your foot in the door" - keep producing tons of stuff to maintain themselves as the flagship TTRPG, but the quality suffered. We're past that now, so we should see things reversing in that sense.
2. Their brand has been threatened, which motivates even the most greedy and corrupt of people to change (not that I'm accusing WotC of being that bad).
3. They have 1D&D coming up, which meant that a lot of attention was on that rather than releases that were intended to keep the game ticking over while they got it ready. It's almost done, so their attention *should* come back.
4. They have shown some signs of improving, like BoMT. Ok, granted, I don't know enough about the process to say if they should have caught it much earlier, but at least they did do something, and did so without the customers having to light a fire under their butts. That's definitely a step in the right direction at least.
5. To be honest, I think they fell into complacency with such a large market share and fell into the mindset of "having done it" - I hope that they've received enough slaps to have woken out of that and realised that to maintain their share, they need to continue to provide strong products. We just need to continue to call them out when they do something wrong (remembering to keep it appropriate and fair - a lot of the stuff being said at times went too far).
I think there's good reason to be optimistic about D&D. They had a rough patch, but there's also strong potential for it to be over soon with good times ahead. I'm keeping a close eye on Vecna (heh).
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
...what above post said, plus (for me) the wider issue seems to be the player base.
I'd love to blame mobile phones, twitter and media in general, but I think that WOTC's just going with the trend here - nobody reads (much) anymore. That seems to be the demographic WOTC are going for - people that zone out after a few minutes of reading. "Nerd" isn't a culture anymore, it's a t-shirt slogan and I can't blame WOTC for leaning into it (cheaper/more profitable).
I can't name a single 5e publication that's done anything to spur my imagination other than the odd reminder that I've got the 2nd/3rd/4th edition version of that book and "I'll need to dig that out to look for the Lore".
I'm running my final D&D Campaign and when it wraps I'll move on to another system to GM.
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I am happy with Wizards overall. I do not see an issue with their quality. However, I am disappointed in the lack of content in some books and poor organization of content in general.
My main gripe with S:AIS is the severe lack of content; the quality of stuff that is in the book is fine, it is just that there is not a lot of stuff. There is not a lot of Spelljammers, there is a very limited amount of monsters, and there are literally only two new magic items. Similarly, while P:AITM is a bit better than S:AIS, it is still pretty lacking. The amount of info on Sigil and the Outlands is pretty lean, which would have been fine if they also talked about the various planes, but they completely ignored that, so it feels like I am ordering a steak dinner and they completely forgot about the sides. The amount magic items is just as abysmal at just three. The bestiary section also felt equally small.
I am also a little annoyed at how books are organized. Source books generally should not mix player facing content with GM facing content together, and source books and adventure books definitely should not even mix at all. The lack of content in certain books also signficantly exacerbates the disorganized mess in some books, since it feels like they just grabbed a bit of stuff here and there and crammed it all together without thought or reason. For thematic books like FTOD, BP:GOTG, and TBOMT, mixing player and GM content is not ideal, but it is understandable and I think it is fine. However, books like XGTE, TCOE, and MP:MOTM should have been separated into at least two books each, and there is no reason to mix player and GM content together. I use the digital books so it is not too bad, but if I have to use only the physical books, as a GM, I do not want to go through player options just to get to the information I want to reference, and players do not need to chug around extra pages they are not going to use. The worst offenders are are S:AIS and P:AITM: at best, their adventures felt tacked on and unnecessary; at worst, those adventures are a complete waste of space. As a person who likes more setting information, the adventures cannibalizes valuable space for further information on the setting. And if I was as interested in adventures as I am about settings, I would probably be disappointed in how short the adventures are too. If I did not have Beyond's digital database, it would be an absolute pain in the ass digging through three or four separate books to look up monsters and magic items.
Realistically, I cannot see Wizards improving the poor organization of content in books at all. To increase the sellability of a book, it seems like books should offer both player and GM content, and unfortunately, it seems like only the core three are an exception to that rule. And books like S:AIS and P:AITM are even worse since they mix adventures into the source books, and since Wizards have to keep prices within a certain range, they have to limit the amount of content of each section. The lack of content could be fixed over time, but Wizards does not seem interested in releasing multiple sourcebooks for each setting to flesh things out.
Wizards also could do a lot better with their shipping and handling of physical books when they are selling the digital-physical bundle, but that is a simple issue to avoid by simply buying digital and physical books separately.
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Do I think that they are making good choices? Generally, no. Do I think the quality has dropped? Yes. I'm I pleased with WotC/Hasbro? Definitely no.
That said I've been here since the 80s when this game was satanic and only for cultists and devil worshippers, and other kids would pick on you if they found out you played. I am not worried about the future of D&D. I'm worried about the QUALITY of D&D moving forward, I'm worried about the CONTENT of D&D and the MONETIZATION of D&D. But I am not worried that it's going be here.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
There's so many forces at play it is hard to say. I think Tasha's is great and VRGtR is what I'm looking for from a setting book. Where I feel some people go wrong is in the collector mentality that every new book is necessary and therefore has to be great (for them). Setting books in particular can cater to a niche group. Personally, I looked at Strixhaven, for example, as a sort of stepping stone to 5.24, with backgrounds that give a feat, like it was trying to bridge the gap between editions. And providing a magic school setting for pop culture reasons. I see the Vecna campaign and now I think that Spelljammer was almost like a token support book for this event in their roadmap, just there to check a box that they have a book for each verse you will go to during the Vecna campaign, so it makes sense (though still poor form, of course) that it was disappointing for many. In some sense I also think that after a few years it gets harder and harder to put out quality content as it can start to just be more, and their release schedule has been all about pumping out content. I agree there's some quality concerns but there's really good material that isn't going away.
I also think we tend to view things in the past with a golden sheen it might not deserve. Having watched some interviews and history that dispelled some of the assumptions I had about the effort and passion that went into some older material - like how balancing in modules was not always more complicated than figuring out the number of hits a creature should take, with nary a thought about how different classes might be uniquely useful throughout an adventure - and I see harsh criticisms of stuff I thought was great - like A2e with all the different supplements, I loved that, but other people hated it and had the same criticisms I think mirroring what we see here, that after a time the quality was not as good, or maybe moreso that some books are more niche.
That said, The Tower that is D&D has a deep crack in its foundation, and it has begun to fall. Their future plans seem to be to go top-heavy with VTT. The need to both purchase content AND pay for a subscription - multiple times - sucks hard, and DDB and their VTT could become the economical choice versus buying content for other VTT's and could include a bigger, consolidated player base on one VTT. I think if they go this direction it is a risk that the weight will carry the tower all the way over. Or it might push the tower down, effectively sealing the crack and stabilizing the Tower, but ultimately continuing stunted, bound by the limitations and the adoption rate of their VTT.
Even if D&D dies, I think it will make its death saves and pop back up, and there's tons of great TTRPG's to explore anyway. And there is still such a huge amount of passion and soul in the community, so many great settings and campaigns on crowdfunding and drivethrurpg. You can still find the golden glow of halcyion days in recent 5e/5e compatible products, and across other TTRPG's, so long as you don't need a specific brand stamped on it.
Third party content is doing well.
Dont put your heart or belief in companies that dont make good product. Might make you sad, we all assume AAA companies can do a good job, time has shown otherwise.
Indie companies are making great content.
Pen and Paper is just rules. Rules can be hacked / edited / copied into a better version.
Gaming is getting better, it just may not come from AAA studios
Greed...
Microsoft execs see Counter-strike / Fortnight / League of Legends / Dota/ Gaas - games as a service as their go to.
The thing the dont see is why those games are successful. They think Games as a service makes money PERIOD.
Disney was not much different, they bought Lucus Arts and Marvel. Just because you own IPs does not mean you know why they are good or how to make money from them.
Larian Studios might make WOTCs mouth water.... however good luck making a game even close with whatever studio your going to higher.
BG3's success is not from WOTC or the Dungeon and Dragons franchise, its from Larian themselves, they made Divinity 1 and 2 winning awards for those games.
WOTC success maybe getting to their head. Critical Role if you look at Google Trends and DnD they take off around the same time.
BG3 and Critical Roles success is not WOTC created or driven.
Microsoft execs, there is no fast easy way to be collecting money. Make something good or high quality.
Most people may not pay for VTT. We have dice apps but still physically roll. Combat wise sure looks brilliant, but combat is the worst part of DnD. What about the human creativity/exploration or social encounters... dont need to pay monthly for that.
Your books are horrendous. Copy the design style like Necrotic Gnome - Quartershots - Dungeon Age - Ben Milton. Very hard to read for running as a DM
Make different formats - Self hack 5e. You can add a whole section called Optional Rule
- Take from Jane Austen Letter system.
- Take from Blades of the Dark clock and flashback mechanics
Any mode or format can be added as optional rules. This will give you guys a monopoly on systems. Take the best parts and make it Mainstream
You guys forget the best thing about WOTC is the First Factor like Coke or Nike.
Position yourself with the core mechanics of the next 5 popular games and take that market share Forever...
Also... how are you not on Netflix or Amazon yet. Get Whos line is it anyway or Any Comedian(British have lots) and start filming.
Even if you filmed them playing Mafia or Fiasco you would have a fan base and make money.
Also do you know who Ben Robbin is... Microscope and Kingdom... Hi-jack this worldbuilding mechanics and live stream famous people doing that and make it cannon.... comon guys thats marketing dream right there.
In so many ways you guys have 100s of ways to make your company thrive, your just not doing it.
Wizards (and TSR before it) putting out books of indifferent to poor quality is nothing new; they put out content based on what they think will make them money, not some ideal to make the best possible game, and it's been that way for decades, punctuated by periods where declining quality results in stuff not selling and they have to do a reset. 5e has, frankly, been one of the more disciplined editions of D&D, they were putting out mountains of garbage in late 2e and 3e (this didn't happen as noticeably in 4e, but that's mostly because 4e was in trouble from the start so they were never free to coast).
Nothing WotC can do with future products can hurt the game I am currently enjoying. It's really that simple.
The quality of WotC's 5e output has always been uneven. Folks bemoaning recent works forget about SCAG, and I can't think of a single adventure outside of maybe original Phandelver that isn't considered a mixed bag by player consensus, though admittedly it feels like there's been an uptick in product output, which to me feels sort of rushing stuff, largely 'namecheck' products ahead of the revised core which is either a big event or a business as usual event dependent on which sector of the DnD market the team's trying assuage.
I guess I'm immune to the worries tied to release schedules because as an older gamer I'm familiar with publishers sustaining their markets through bloating product lines. A lot of publishers did that back in the 80s and 90s. Nowadays few TTRPG publishers outside of WotC have the resources to "develop" (inflate) game lines that way, and I can only think of one, maybe two that do it well, but all those smaller publishers aren't beholden to market forces the way WotC is, so it's an entirely different game on the business side.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The blessing of being in a position of being able to homebrew your own adventures. Unfortunately, some of us are beholden to the published adventures. Once I get to critical mass with the adventures, then it's less of an issue.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Well. Remember TSR?
Honestly, I've felt the adventures in 5e have been mostly awful. If I could have the old 2e module style back rather than their attempt to create a sandboxy campaign that requires a lot more prep and work on the part of a DM, I'd take it. I'm fine with getting on the choo choo and riding the rails so to speak.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I use 3rd party 5E content and I use eBay and other means to get older content rather than give WotC revenue. By giving WotC revenue for how they are running D&D you are giving them positive reinforcement to continue putting out books that are a jumble of content (adventure 1-5, 1-4 spells/magic items/subclasses and 5-20 monsters) that don't serve anyone, they don't lead to good campaign play and tend to chase players away more than attract.
I see no other way of getting WotC to change their ways than to stop giving them money to reinforce their behavior. For as successful 5E was in its first 5 years, there should have been more than one bonus monster manual, they should have put out 4 monster manuals. Having to buy the expanded monster manual to fix WotC's decision on content is a head shaker at WotC. It seems like something went seriously wrong with 5E content about 5 years ago and WotC never fully recovered. Just look at Eberron Rising from the Last War, an awesome source book, but they never put out a full on campaign you could buy as a book to go with the source book. There was a slimmed down adventurer's league path, such a wasted opportunity at revenue, which would have kept more people employed at D&D.
I've got Tales from the Yawning Portal which are adventures from previous editions, and didn't really enjoy it. I enjoy the stories and don't mind putting in the effort to make them work. I just need the help of the bones of the story (preferably with some meat too). Different strokes I guess.
Not that I'd say 5e adventures are perfect. Contrary to many claims, I found LMoP quite disappointing, for example. Some at least are good enough and enjoyable.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.