Yeah, no. The Genus Homo meaning Man dades back to 1.8 Million years ago if you begin it at H. Ergastor and at 2.5 Million years ago if you begin it at H. Habilus.
What Science currently calls 'Anatomically Correct Homo Sapiens' begin about 0.3 Million years ago (that's 300K [315K to be most exact with the origins]). However, back in the day, we called these Cromagnons instead; a contemporary of Neanderthals. We didn't start calling folks 'Homo sapiens' until we had evidence of actual sapience, which we call 'Behavioral Modernity'. Sparks of which notwithstanding, this is not typically found until after the Toba catastrophe 74K years ago with cave paintings beginning about 65Kya and only becoming prominent within the last 40K-25K years.
Ergastor, Habilis, etc. are not the same species as us. What I said was that our species dates back no more than 100,000. Hominids are much older and I do include our genetic line going back to when we split from apes (so, australopitecos, etc.)
If humans start reproducing at 20 years old(I know its younger but 20 makes math easier) 100 years(max human age) that is 5 human generations.
If elves start reproducing at 20 years old and live 1000 years( max elf age) that is 50 elf generations. How much more would elves get done in a single life span than humans? How much could they learn in that 1000 years? How much power and wealth could they accumulate?
Their only limit game wise is 20 levels, just like humans.
Why are the long lived races not the real rulers of any world they exist in?
The roman empire lasted less than 1000 years and that was with rulers who died 50 years on average. How long would an elf empire last with? How large would it grow in just 2000 years? Only 3 or 4 life times for an elf.
Made up excuses like "the elves just do not care so they wouldn't do it" are week and ignore how players play elves.
Yeah, no. The Genus Homo meaning Man dades back to 1.8 Million years ago if you begin it at H. Ergastor and at 2.5 Million years ago if you begin it at H. Habilus.
What Science currently calls 'Anatomically Correct Homo Sapiens' begin about 0.3 Million years ago (that's 300K [315K to be most exact with the origins]). However, back in the day, we called these Cromagnons instead; a contemporary of Neanderthals. We didn't start calling folks 'Homo sapiens' until we had evidence of actual sapience, which we call 'Behavioral Modernity'. Sparks of which notwithstanding, this is not typically found until after the Toba catastrophe 74K years ago with cave paintings beginning about 65Kya and only becoming prominent within the last 40K-25K years.
Ergastor, Habilis, etc. are not the same species as us. What I said was that our species dates back no more than 100,000. Hominids are much older and I do include our genetic line going back to when we split from apes (so, australopitecos, etc.)
Nods; that was a reply to blackbear.
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If humans start reproducing at 20 years old(I know its younger but 20 makes math easier) 100 years(max human age) that is 5 human generations.
If elves start reproducing at 20 years old and live 1000 years( max elf age) that is 50 elf generations. How much more would elves get done in a single life span than humans? How much could they learn in that 1000 years? How much power and wealth could they accumulate?
Their only limit game wise is 20 levels, just like humans.
Why are the long lived races not the real rulers of any world they exist in?
The roman empire lasted less than 1000 years and that was with rulers who died 50 years on average. How long would an elf empire last with? How large would it grow in just 2000 years? Only 3 or 4 life times for an elf.
Made up excuses like "the elves just do not care so they wouldn't do it" are week and ignore how players play elves.
1st: Elves don't start producing at 20 years old. They don't age at teh same rate as humans and only live longer, they age slower as so reproduce later. Elves also don't reproduce as quickly as humans when they do start. A human couple can produce at least 1 child every ear, so from 20 to say 50, that is 30 children. A polyamorous family can produce many more than that. Elves have longer pregnancies and also fewer pregnancies.
In my headcannon at the very least, I don't know if I picked this up somewhere else:
There are only a specific number of elven souls in existence. A number equal to the drops of blood shed by Corellon in his fight with Gruumsh. There can never be any more elves at a time than this number. Pregnancies are arrested at a certain stage in developement like with sebations from Farscape, and only continue when a soul becomes available for the child. Elven souls are recycled via a series of reincarnations. A lot of new elves don't get born at once unless a lot of older ones die at once, like in a war.
Furthermore, inspite of how wonderful non elves think elves are |;-p. Elves do not actually enjoy 'being elves'. In the lore they were persuaded by Arushnee (Lolth) into abandoning their lives as fey-spirits to take on a mortal form instead. This was a mistake that they regret and that got them punished with said cycle of reincarnation. Elves try in every life to atone for this and be forgiven by Correllon. Sometimes they succeed and do not have to reincarnate as an elf again but can instead become another kind of sylvan creature such as Dryad. Thus over time, the number of elves on the material plane is gradually reducing; not increasing.
Elves had their day and their empires, but as with the inspiration from Tolkien, the time of the elves is passing and the age of humans has dawned.
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Dude I’m confused on why characters are given the ability to create things if it’s the player that has the knowledge on how to do so in the first place which caused all this. Surely because the character and player are separate that clearly shows that the character wouldn’t know how to make the things the player knows. By that logic a Half-Orc Barbarian with a -2 to Intelligence could create a working PC with the right materials as the player knows how, which makes no sense whatsoever. Where did he obtain that knowledge, did he just spawn into the world with it? And on the other hand, there might be a skilled Artificer character famed for inventions, but can’t make stuff that goes beyond their clearly stated class features and proficiencies, just because the player is unaware? I’m fully on the side of the DM as the player seems to be abusing a rule they knew was flimsy, especially since they can’t technically prove that they can make all the things they claim they can, but it was a really awful rule to begin with that caused the issues.
There are campaigns where the PC's are actually the players dropped into a magical world. However they are usually dropped into a magical world, not one where everything works normally the same way they expect it to. Or alternatively, into a normal earlier history setting, with no magic at all.
Ah so they’re playing themselves, in the real world? Barely seems like DND anymore but sure
Why is this still a question? Just don’t allow them to make nukes, also no, elves don’t make nukes or stuff because of their age no matter what everybody seems to be saying so the player wouldn’t know how to make a nuke. Easy peasy, now can you stop whining about god helping you when you shoot down every solution that’s given and say it’s not sound for your campaign because “elves and dragons and gods live long so they can make technology and therefore the player can make technology.”
I usually wouldn’t say this but it might be time to put this campaign to rest (or at least to one side for a while) whilst you reconsider the world, story, rules, players, and both their and your own decisions. The easiest thing could just be to say to the players ‘Sorry guys this got out of hand and I made some mistakes with it, do you want to start over/begin a new campaign?’
They wouldn’t make them just because they can. What use would a society of elves have for nuclear weapons? I don’t see saying that they could but don’t want to is a weak argument as it’s entirely reasonable. I could easily remove all the doors in my house, but I don’t because I don’t want to and don’t need to. If you have no reason at all for doing something there is no point in doing it, and what you’re saying is that ‘They can make nuclear weapons so they should’. Besides, it’s ’s a massive and unnecessary waste of resources
I see what you mean and now totally since the characters have the knowledge of creating things, the only reasonable non-meta explanation is that the rest of the world would be aware, and probably use it. I just think that giving the BBEG a Fighter Jet makes it a very different game, and with things like satellites, the internet, space travel etc. things can be very easily a used. Though I could see it as a cool premise for a far future campaign that has its restrictions, implementing it regularly just has too many things as to consider that will derail it very quickly.
Why is this still a question? Just don’t allow them to make nukes, also no, elves don’t make nukes or stuff because of their age no matter what everybody seems to be saying so the player wouldn’t know how to make a nuke. Easy peasy, now can you stop whining about god helping you when you shoot down every solution that’s given and say it’s not sound for your campaign because “elves and dragons and gods live long so they can make technology and therefore the player can make technology.”
If the PC knows, wouldn't that mean everyone else who could reasonably know would also know?
No. I don't know if you are familiar with the 80's cartoon; but if I myself were brought from the 21st century to the 12th century, there would be stuff I know that no one else in the world does because I am from the future. Like how the kid in King Arthurs court movie could teach the blacksmith how to make a bicycle and teach the princess how to make a Big Mac. It's information that is alien to time where the story is taking place. If you have a rule that says my character can make anything "I" know how to make. That means my character can use 21st century knowledge. Never mind nukes:
I know how to make barley taste good.
I know tomatoes aren't poison and can make a special alchemical potion called catsup/ketchup which will help cure scurvy.
I know that the expensive spread rich people like to put on their toast is really whale vomit and make a better toast spread out of beans.
I know there is an undiscovered continent in the west and can make a map of it, noting where the gold deposits are.
I don't like a mcguffin of "physics doesn't work because this is a land of magic" either. I prefer magic to exist in addition to physics, not instead of it. Magic can supersede physics, but only when wielded by a will. Simple ambient magic doesn't just negate physics. Maybe it does in an area of wild magic, but that is certain spots in the world only.
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Yeah I think the whole thing of magic beating out physics is silly, but I’m a fan of the trope where wizards or sorcerers deny the existence of magic and instead just say it’s ’unexplained science’ or something. Still, I think magic is should be treated like a separate thing to physics, where physics is the fundamentals that make up the world and then magic can be placed on top of that to change it. Otherwise how do characters in a fantasy world stay anchored to the floor if physics doesn’t exist, or if physics is a type of magic, then why doesn’t an antimagic field just tear apart reality as all of the molecular bonds forming stuff are just torn apart since ‘the magic isn’t there’
Though just to add I think it’s fine to have people in a mediaeval time period believe that physics is magic or the work of gods and mystical forces (like they did in the real world) but just because they think it is doesn’t mean it should be classed as such (though that does give me a funny idea for a regular human who thinks he’s a sorcerer because he was born with the innate ability of physics]
I feel the original intent of the OP’s question has been lost. All they were looking for was a solution to a problem player abusing a half-baked rule, and now it’s evolved into the ethics of elves with nukes and the distinction between magic and physics lol
I don’t think it is at all. They are looking for solutions to solve the problems that have already happened, which is an out of game issue that needs to be settled with the player as it’s clear that it’s the player abusing the rule which is causing the issues. There’s also the issue of correcting the mayhem that’s already happened within the game, which is as simple as revoking the rule and getting rid of everything it caused, and then discussing how to go forward with the party. Whether or not physics is magic has absolutely no influence on the question OP originally wanted an answer to which was ‘How do I deal with this player and their actions’
Even if we come to a conclusion on what the line between magic and physics is, it’s not going to have any effect on what OP wants, and tbh I think they’ve already lost interest/have a solution and have moved on from this thread
It never should have been "You can make anything you (player) knows how to make."
It should have been "You can make anything your character knows how to make."
Honestly, I do not know enough to make a nuke. I do know enough to make:
Black powder, smokeless powder, electrical generators, electrical motors, primitive steam engines, modern banks, sewing machines (very difficult), lead acid battery, electrical bell (aka first telegraph), printing press, revolver, pendulum clock, thermometer, rocket mass heating stove, primitive lathe, and plywood,
I do not quite know enough to make an internal combustion engine. While I understand the shapes needed, the metal needs to be higher quality than I could make.
All of these items are both beyond the typical tech level of most D&D games and in the real life created MASSIVE social change. As in over-throw governments. Printing press and gunpowder(s) are the most obvious, but the rest, in the right location, would also bankrupt dukes and kings.
I think the problem is the original rule isn't applied rigorously enough.
I know 'how' to make a nuclear bomb: You take enough refined uranium for critical mass, then use explosive compression to make sure it goes nice and proper boom.
That's not enough by any measure. Give me a pickaxe, a mountain full of uranium ore, and all the time in the world. I would never be able to find any actual uranium, because I don't know how to differentiate it from all the other rock.
Even if I did, I wouldn't know how to extract it. Even if I did, I wouldn't know how to refine it. Even if I did, I wouldn't know how to handle it. And even if I did, I wouldn't know a bunch of other things.
And that's just the uranium. To purify and refine it, I know I need centrifuges. I don't know how they work. And even if I did, I don't know how to build them. And even if I did, I don't have the tools.
See? It goes on, and on, and on, and on. It (almost) never ends. Basically, to build a nuclear bomb you need something on the order of 400-500 years of technological development - from the point of view of the characters.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Yeah, the rule spelt disaster from the beginning as it allows the players to do way to much and completely changed the dynamic of the world they’re playing in
(Also can I say it’s hilarious to keep receiving notifications saying [blank] posted a message on ‘God please help me’)
Why is this still a question? Just don’t allow them to make nukes, also no, elves don’t make nukes or stuff because of their age no matter what everybody seems to be saying so the player wouldn’t know how to make a nuke. Easy peasy, now can you stop whining about god helping you when you shoot down every solution that’s given and say it’s not sound for your campaign because “elves and dragons and gods live long so they can make technology and therefore the player can make technology.”
IF they are makeable, what is your reason that Elves don't make them? 'Because?'
The 'easy peasy' solution is 'They literally do not work.' In a world where Mithril and Adamantium exist, it is not a given that Uranium or Plutonium even exist at all. When they simply do not work, or key raw materials literally do not exist, then there is no need to fall back on the far weaker 'They could but don't wanna'
Edit: And to remind of the OP's premise, the DM had declared that if the Player knows how to make something, then their character can make it in campaign. That is the context of this discussion. It is not 'because civilizations would know how to make these that the PC would,' but rather 'the PC knows how to make these, so what does that mean with respect to how the rest of the world would look like, if that is the case.' If the PC knows, wouldn't that mean everyone else who could reasonably know would also know?
Ergastor, Habilis, etc. are not the same species as us. What I said was that our species dates back no more than 100,000. Hominids are much older and I do include our genetic line going back to when we split from apes (so, australopitecos, etc.)
If humans start reproducing at 20 years old(I know its younger but 20 makes math easier)
100 years(max human age) that is 5 human generations.
If elves start reproducing at 20 years old and live 1000 years( max elf age) that is 50 elf generations. How much more would elves get done in a single life span than humans? How much could they learn in that 1000 years? How much power and wealth could they accumulate?
Their only limit game wise is 20 levels, just like humans.
Why are the long lived races not the real rulers of any world they exist in?
The roman empire lasted less than 1000 years and that was with rulers who died 50 years on average. How long would an elf empire last with? How large would it grow in just 2000 years? Only 3 or 4 life times for an elf.
Made up excuses like "the elves just do not care so they wouldn't do it" are week and ignore how players play elves.
Nods; that was a reply to blackbear.
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
1st: Elves don't start producing at 20 years old. They don't age at teh same rate as humans and only live longer, they age slower as so reproduce later. Elves also don't reproduce as quickly as humans when they do start. A human couple can produce at least 1 child every ear, so from 20 to say 50, that is 30 children. A polyamorous family can produce many more than that. Elves have longer pregnancies and also fewer pregnancies.
In my headcannon at the very least, I don't know if I picked this up somewhere else:
There are only a specific number of elven souls in existence. A number equal to the drops of blood shed by Corellon in his fight with Gruumsh. There can never be any more elves at a time than this number. Pregnancies are arrested at a certain stage in developement like with sebations from Farscape, and only continue when a soul becomes available for the child. Elven souls are recycled via a series of reincarnations. A lot of new elves don't get born at once unless a lot of older ones die at once, like in a war.
Furthermore, inspite of how wonderful non elves think elves are |;-p. Elves do not actually enjoy 'being elves'. In the lore they were persuaded by Arushnee (Lolth) into abandoning their lives as fey-spirits to take on a mortal form instead. This was a mistake that they regret and that got them punished with said cycle of reincarnation. Elves try in every life to atone for this and be forgiven by Correllon. Sometimes they succeed and do not have to reincarnate as an elf again but can instead become another kind of sylvan creature such as Dryad. Thus over time, the number of elves on the material plane is gradually reducing; not increasing.
Elves had their day and their empires, but as with the inspiration from Tolkien, the time of the elves is passing and the age of humans has dawned.
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
Ah so they’re playing themselves, in the real world? Barely seems like DND anymore but sure
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Pushover Gerilwitz: Tiefling Wizard: Acquisitions Incorporated
Callow Sunken-Eyes: Goliath Arctic Druid: We Are Modron
DMing The 100 Dungeons of the Blood Archivist , The Hunt for the Balowang and Surviving Tempest City!
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Why is this still a question? Just don’t allow them to make nukes, also no, elves don’t make nukes or stuff because of their age no matter what everybody seems to be saying so the player wouldn’t know how to make a nuke. Easy peasy, now can you stop whining about god helping you when you shoot down every solution that’s given and say it’s not sound for your campaign because “elves and dragons and gods live long so they can make technology and therefore the player can make technology.”
Characters (Links!):
Faelin Nighthollow - 7th Sojourn
I usually wouldn’t say this but it might be time to put this campaign to rest (or at least to one side for a while) whilst you reconsider the world, story, rules, players, and both their and your own decisions. The easiest thing could just be to say to the players ‘Sorry guys this got out of hand and I made some mistakes with it, do you want to start over/begin a new campaign?’
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Pushover Gerilwitz: Tiefling Wizard: Acquisitions Incorporated
Callow Sunken-Eyes: Goliath Arctic Druid: We Are Modron
DMing The 100 Dungeons of the Blood Archivist , The Hunt for the Balowang and Surviving Tempest City!
Killer Queen has already extended this signature, though not by much!
They wouldn’t make them just because they can. What use would a society of elves have for nuclear weapons? I don’t see saying that they could but don’t want to is a weak argument as it’s entirely reasonable. I could easily remove all the doors in my house, but I don’t because I don’t want to and don’t need to. If you have no reason at all for doing something there is no point in doing it, and what you’re saying is that ‘They can make nuclear weapons so they should’. Besides, it’s ’s a massive and unnecessary waste of resources
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Pushover Gerilwitz: Tiefling Wizard: Acquisitions Incorporated
Callow Sunken-Eyes: Goliath Arctic Druid: We Are Modron
DMing The 100 Dungeons of the Blood Archivist , The Hunt for the Balowang and Surviving Tempest City!
Killer Queen has already extended this signature, though not by much!
I see what you mean and now totally since the characters have the knowledge of creating things, the only reasonable non-meta explanation is that the rest of the world would be aware, and probably use it. I just think that giving the BBEG a Fighter Jet makes it a very different game, and with things like satellites, the internet, space travel etc. things can be very easily a used. Though I could see it as a cool premise for a far future campaign that has its restrictions, implementing it regularly just has too many things as to consider that will derail it very quickly.
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Pushover Gerilwitz: Tiefling Wizard: Acquisitions Incorporated
Callow Sunken-Eyes: Goliath Arctic Druid: We Are Modron
DMing The 100 Dungeons of the Blood Archivist , The Hunt for the Balowang and Surviving Tempest City!
Killer Queen has already extended this signature, though not by much!
No. I don't know if you are familiar with the 80's cartoon; but if I myself were brought from the 21st century to the 12th century, there would be stuff I know that no one else in the world does because I am from the future. Like how the kid in King Arthurs court movie could teach the blacksmith how to make a bicycle and teach the princess how to make a Big Mac. It's information that is alien to time where the story is taking place. If you have a rule that says my character can make anything "I" know how to make. That means my character can use 21st century knowledge. Never mind nukes:
I know how to make barley taste good.
I know tomatoes aren't poison and can make a special alchemical potion called catsup/ketchup which will help cure scurvy.
I know that the expensive spread rich people like to put on their toast is really whale vomit and make a better toast spread out of beans.
I know there is an undiscovered continent in the west and can make a map of it, noting where the gold deposits are.
I don't like a mcguffin of "physics doesn't work because this is a land of magic" either. I prefer magic to exist in addition to physics, not instead of it. Magic can supersede physics, but only when wielded by a will. Simple ambient magic doesn't just negate physics. Maybe it does in an area of wild magic, but that is certain spots in the world only.
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
Yeah I think the whole thing of magic beating out physics is silly, but I’m a fan of the trope where wizards or sorcerers deny the existence of magic and instead just say it’s ’unexplained science’ or something. Still, I think magic is should be treated like a separate thing to physics, where physics is the fundamentals that make up the world and then magic can be placed on top of that to change it. Otherwise how do characters in a fantasy world stay anchored to the floor if physics doesn’t exist, or if physics is a type of magic, then why doesn’t an antimagic field just tear apart reality as all of the molecular bonds forming stuff are just torn apart since ‘the magic isn’t there’
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Pushover Gerilwitz: Tiefling Wizard: Acquisitions Incorporated
Callow Sunken-Eyes: Goliath Arctic Druid: We Are Modron
DMing The 100 Dungeons of the Blood Archivist , The Hunt for the Balowang and Surviving Tempest City!
Killer Queen has already extended this signature, though not by much!
Though just to add I think it’s fine to have people in a mediaeval time period believe that physics is magic or the work of gods and mystical forces (like they did in the real world) but just because they think it is doesn’t mean it should be classed as such (though that does give me a funny idea for a regular human who thinks he’s a sorcerer because he was born with the innate ability of physics]
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Pushover Gerilwitz: Tiefling Wizard: Acquisitions Incorporated
Callow Sunken-Eyes: Goliath Arctic Druid: We Are Modron
DMing The 100 Dungeons of the Blood Archivist , The Hunt for the Balowang and Surviving Tempest City!
Killer Queen has already extended this signature, though not by much!
I feel the original intent of the OP’s question has been lost. All they were looking for was a solution to a problem player abusing a half-baked rule, and now it’s evolved into the ethics of elves with nukes and the distinction between magic and physics lol
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Pushover Gerilwitz: Tiefling Wizard: Acquisitions Incorporated
Callow Sunken-Eyes: Goliath Arctic Druid: We Are Modron
DMing The 100 Dungeons of the Blood Archivist , The Hunt for the Balowang and Surviving Tempest City!
Killer Queen has already extended this signature, though not by much!
I don’t think it is at all. They are looking for solutions to solve the problems that have already happened, which is an out of game issue that needs to be settled with the player as it’s clear that it’s the player abusing the rule which is causing the issues. There’s also the issue of correcting the mayhem that’s already happened within the game, which is as simple as revoking the rule and getting rid of everything it caused, and then discussing how to go forward with the party. Whether or not physics is magic has absolutely no influence on the question OP originally wanted an answer to which was ‘How do I deal with this player and their actions’
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Pushover Gerilwitz: Tiefling Wizard: Acquisitions Incorporated
Callow Sunken-Eyes: Goliath Arctic Druid: We Are Modron
DMing The 100 Dungeons of the Blood Archivist , The Hunt for the Balowang and Surviving Tempest City!
Killer Queen has already extended this signature, though not by much!
Even if we come to a conclusion on what the line between magic and physics is, it’s not going to have any effect on what OP wants, and tbh I think they’ve already lost interest/have a solution and have moved on from this thread
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Pushover Gerilwitz: Tiefling Wizard: Acquisitions Incorporated
Callow Sunken-Eyes: Goliath Arctic Druid: We Are Modron
DMing The 100 Dungeons of the Blood Archivist , The Hunt for the Balowang and Surviving Tempest City!
Killer Queen has already extended this signature, though not by much!
Absolutely, totally agree
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Pushover Gerilwitz: Tiefling Wizard: Acquisitions Incorporated
Callow Sunken-Eyes: Goliath Arctic Druid: We Are Modron
DMing The 100 Dungeons of the Blood Archivist , The Hunt for the Balowang and Surviving Tempest City!
Killer Queen has already extended this signature, though not by much!
The real problem was the original rule.
It never should have been "You can make anything you (player) knows how to make."
It should have been "You can make anything your character knows how to make."
Honestly, I do not know enough to make a nuke. I do know enough to make:
Black powder, smokeless powder, electrical generators, electrical motors, primitive steam engines, modern banks, sewing machines (very difficult), lead acid battery, electrical bell (aka first telegraph), printing press, revolver, pendulum clock, thermometer, rocket mass heating stove, primitive lathe, and plywood,
I do not quite know enough to make an internal combustion engine. While I understand the shapes needed, the metal needs to be higher quality than I could make.
All of these items are both beyond the typical tech level of most D&D games and in the real life created MASSIVE social change. As in over-throw governments. Printing press and gunpowder(s) are the most obvious, but the rest, in the right location, would also bankrupt dukes and kings.
I think the problem is the original rule isn't applied rigorously enough.
I know 'how' to make a nuclear bomb: You take enough refined uranium for critical mass, then use explosive compression to make sure it goes nice and proper boom.
That's not enough by any measure. Give me a pickaxe, a mountain full of uranium ore, and all the time in the world. I would never be able to find any actual uranium, because I don't know how to differentiate it from all the other rock.
Even if I did, I wouldn't know how to extract it. Even if I did, I wouldn't know how to refine it. Even if I did, I wouldn't know how to handle it. And even if I did, I wouldn't know a bunch of other things.
And that's just the uranium. To purify and refine it, I know I need centrifuges. I don't know how they work. And even if I did, I don't know how to build them. And even if I did, I don't have the tools.
See? It goes on, and on, and on, and on. It (almost) never ends. Basically, to build a nuclear bomb you need something on the order of 400-500 years of technological development - from the point of view of the characters.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Yeah, the rule spelt disaster from the beginning as it allows the players to do way to much and completely changed the dynamic of the world they’re playing in
(Also can I say it’s hilarious to keep receiving notifications saying [blank] posted a message on ‘God please help me’)
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Pushover Gerilwitz: Tiefling Wizard: Acquisitions Incorporated
Callow Sunken-Eyes: Goliath Arctic Druid: We Are Modron
DMing The 100 Dungeons of the Blood Archivist , The Hunt for the Balowang and Surviving Tempest City!
Killer Queen has already extended this signature, though not by much!
Just realised your not the dm. Mb.
Characters (Links!):
Faelin Nighthollow - 7th Sojourn