I still own 3.5 books and 2e books, and I have the option to run pencil and paper campaigns if I want, but as far as 5e content goes, I mostly own digital materials so I can use them with D&D beyond. I have spent a lot of money on digital content and I like being able to play with my group remotely, or even together using the digital resources. It is great!
But what happens when 6e comes out?
I am hoping that the future involves allowing people to play other editions on the site/app rather than screwing over anyone who has bought into what they are doing here, but Hasbro's recent actions aren't encouraging.
6e isn't about to come out; the 2024 books are really a point release. Even if they were putting out a new edition, that would probably just result in your existing products winding up in legacy support of some sort for an extended period (the digital tools for 4th edition were maintained until 2019, despite 4e being EOL in 2012).
When 2024e releases? Nah, you're safe. It'd be really bad business without much gain if they tried.
In the future at some point? Pretty much guaranteed. It'll happen one day. It'll get to the point where it's just not profitable to do it anymore. They'll weigh the cost of having to maintain the service for old users against annoying a few old users that aren't buying new books anymore (or aren't all that attached to 5e anymore anyway) and one day the balance will tip the wrong way for those users. It'll happen one day. Just...not in the next few years. Probably about the time when 7e comes out. Maybe.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
They killed the 4e digital platform when Microsoft discontinued Silverlight. In general there are three factors determining shutdown of a service like this:
What does it cost to maintain the service? This is often nonlinear -- it remains low for an extended period but eventually it requires some major upgrade.
What does the service make?
What are the costs (direct costs and goodwill) of shutting it down?
Eventually, it's cheaper to shut down a service than to keep it up, but depending on the core platform it may take quite a long time.
I believe that memory is so cheap as to be almost zero and web servers are going to follow the same trend. The only thing that is a concern is file format and there are formats which are nearly eternal (e.g. vanilla HTML)
Account management is the most likely thing to cause problems.
I highly doubt there will be any changes. The new edititon will be new books, or possibly an updatge of the old ones. The most likely scenario is that there will be the new core books and the older ones will be legacy content (like Volo's guide)
I highly doubt there will be any changes. The new edititon will be new books, or possibly an updatge of the old ones. The most likely scenario is that there will be the new core books and the older ones will be legacy content (like Volo's guide)
They're almost certainly going to be separate products, rather than hand the majority of their market their latest product at no charge.
If they slowly iterate from now on instead of releasing entire new editions, doing rules updates here and there etc I could see being able to stay with D&D beyond, but if my stuff all become legacy, and is therefore on a ticking clock, or is less and less compatible with the combat management system and maps then it will be a hard argument to make that anyone should stick with it. Given that D&D fans aren't just gamers for a few years, but instead are a subculture where people will play for decades, I hope they don't manage this as if they need to appeal to next year's crop of middle schoolers.
So far I honestly think Wizards has done fairly well. They messed up when they messed with content licensing, but then they fixed it right away because they listened to the users and creators. The problem is that Hasbro, the parent company, is not good. It is just a shot-term thinking money grubbing creature, doing massive layoffs on their most profitable products (D&D Beyond specifically and also the Team who worked on Baldur's Gate 3) simply to temporarily boost stock prices. It makes me worry that the incredible artists and content creators will all get shafted again and again, and on the consumer side we will find that no one cares about the quality of our experience.
Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I will be watching carefully for stupid AI art and other money grabs.
It would be great if they gave the option to "upgrade" everything that has been purchased from their site to the new rules. I'm sure they would want more money from people by having them purchase all new content but it would be nice. Maybe charge like half the price or something to make it at least feel like they care.
While this is inevitable as a business event at some point in the future, I hope they factor in the buying patterns of people who hold "legacy content" for prior game editions.
I'm already a buyer; if the 6th edition comes out in a decade and I've been buying the content all along, taking all prior content away may cause me to stop paying out of discouragement.
TL;DR: If I already buy just about everything, keeping old and unsupported content available may be the best way to keep me buying.
Ask yourself this question. What are the odds that the current Hasbro/Wotc leadership will score an own goal by doing something like sunsetting digital content early? Make digital purchase with the understanding that they can and likely will go away.
The real problem will be the security of the platform. If you can't move the format to the most up to date security features they'll end it because it becomes a liability as the easiest egress point.
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#OpenD&D #ORC
"...or you can find the secret tunnel that leads to the Vault of Dickish DM which is filled with 10,000,000 copper coins and a 5,000 pound solid gold statue of a middle finger that is too big to fit through the door."
It should be noted, when Wizards retired their 4e digital tools, they went above and beyond to minimize the damage to players. When they ended tech support for the system, they shut down new subscriptions - but allowed old users to maintain their subscription or renew their subscription, so no one would lose access to existing characters or have to make drastic changes to their present campaigns. They then left the system in this state for a few years, even providing some limited tech support if users emailed them about problems.
It was only once Microsoft Silverlight (which the 4e tools were based on) announced it would be shuttering that Wizards finally said they would be killing the tools - and they gave players several months notice to save any content they wanted, archive characters, and transition campaigns to different systems. I cannot imagine there were many of us left using the 4e tools at that point, but Wizards still did everything they could to accommodate us as things wound down.
It should also be noted, Beyond has something the 4e tools never had - the site itself is part of Wizards’ long-term plan. Wizards has made it clear they want D&D Beyond to be the primary website for all official D&D content, announcements, etc., supplanting even their main D&D website as your primary source of all official Wizards announcements. Migrating your business over to a singular website gives some long-term security to that website - after all, you do not want your primary user-facing experience to be obsolete or insecure. This creates a greater incentive to keep things on D&D Beyond functional than there ever was for the 4e tools, which were always housed on a secondary site.
I tend to think Wizards will be careful since their self own last year when they tried to lockdown content, but Hasbro not so much. Laying off the most successful creative team they've had in years, maybe ever, comes to mind as a recent indication of how much they care about the quality of their content. And companies often "own goal" such as what happened to HBO recently when they pulled a bunch of successful shows from their streaming service.
I wouldn't look to actions regarding streaming to predict future behaviour in other markets. Streaming has a messed up incentive system for its market which leads to the perverse nature of popular shows being less likely to be renewed.
As for the layoffs, again, there are a lot of dynamics we're not privy to. While it might make me nervous, I'd hesitate to call it an own goal just yet. I'd also point out that while 5e is extremely popular (as far as TTRPGs go), the quality of it is not the main driver behind that. 5e is certainly a good game, but it seems that the runaway success is more down to other factors. As I said, complex dynamics that we're not informed enough to predict.
As I said, 5e on DDB will go one day. Just...not yet.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
That's a tough call. There would have to be something compelling for millions to re-buy existing mechanics, spells, magic items, monster stats, etc. via books and existing digital products.
Though I suspect, pure conjecture, should they launch a new version, it would be for VTT only, and its contents, mechanics, monsters, etc. would be free, and in instead a subscription service + microtransactions.
Most products are purchased by Dungeon Masters, players don't buy nearly as much as Dungeon Masters, because they don't need to, Dungeon Master's need to.
To get players to commit financially, with VTT, you could make micro purchases i.e. instead of a boring, magical, wooden staff, for $X dollars you can have it sparkle and light up, or instead of boring animation of arms raised when you casted a spell, for $X you can see that spell in full effect, or buy other effects for that spell... .
That's my guess.
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I still own 3.5 books and 2e books, and I have the option to run pencil and paper campaigns if I want, but as far as 5e content goes, I mostly own digital materials so I can use them with D&D beyond. I have spent a lot of money on digital content and I like being able to play with my group remotely, or even together using the digital resources. It is great!
But what happens when 6e comes out?
I am hoping that the future involves allowing people to play other editions on the site/app rather than screwing over anyone who has bought into what they are doing here, but Hasbro's recent actions aren't encouraging.
Thoughts?
6e isn't about to come out; the 2024 books are really a point release. Even if they were putting out a new edition, that would probably just result in your existing products winding up in legacy support of some sort for an extended period (the digital tools for 4th edition were maintained until 2019, despite 4e being EOL in 2012).
They’ve been emphasizing backwards compatibility too much to get away with taking content down en mass.
When 2024e releases? Nah, you're safe. It'd be really bad business without much gain if they tried.
In the future at some point? Pretty much guaranteed. It'll happen one day. It'll get to the point where it's just not profitable to do it anymore. They'll weigh the cost of having to maintain the service for old users against annoying a few old users that aren't buying new books anymore (or aren't all that attached to 5e anymore anyway) and one day the balance will tip the wrong way for those users. It'll happen one day. Just...not in the next few years. Probably about the time when 7e comes out. Maybe.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
They killed the 4e digital platform when Microsoft discontinued Silverlight. In general there are three factors determining shutdown of a service like this:
Eventually, it's cheaper to shut down a service than to keep it up, but depending on the core platform it may take quite a long time.
i do hope when they move it hope they put it in a different tag like 5e legacy otherwise the stuff in there already will just be confusing to explain
Account management is the most likely thing to cause problems.
I highly doubt there will be any changes. The new edititon will be new books, or possibly an updatge of the old ones. The most likely scenario is that there will be the new core books and the older ones will be legacy content (like Volo's guide)
They're almost certainly going to be separate products, rather than hand the majority of their market their latest product at no charge.
If they slowly iterate from now on instead of releasing entire new editions, doing rules updates here and there etc I could see being able to stay with D&D beyond, but if my stuff all become legacy, and is therefore on a ticking clock, or is less and less compatible with the combat management system and maps then it will be a hard argument to make that anyone should stick with it. Given that D&D fans aren't just gamers for a few years, but instead are a subculture where people will play for decades, I hope they don't manage this as if they need to appeal to next year's crop of middle schoolers.
So far I honestly think Wizards has done fairly well. They messed up when they messed with content licensing, but then they fixed it right away because they listened to the users and creators. The problem is that Hasbro, the parent company, is not good. It is just a shot-term thinking money grubbing creature, doing massive layoffs on their most profitable products (D&D Beyond specifically and also the Team who worked on Baldur's Gate 3) simply to temporarily boost stock prices. It makes me worry that the incredible artists and content creators will all get shafted again and again, and on the consumer side we will find that no one cares about the quality of our experience.
Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I will be watching carefully for stupid AI art and other money grabs.
It would be great if they gave the option to "upgrade" everything that has been purchased from their site to the new rules. I'm sure they would want more money from people by having them purchase all new content but it would be nice. Maybe charge like half the price or something to make it at least feel like they care.
It's not like it's a major rules change; from the look of things a good 90% of the core rules of play are staying the same.
While this is inevitable as a business event at some point in the future, I hope they factor in the buying patterns of people who hold "legacy content" for prior game editions.
I'm already a buyer; if the 6th edition comes out in a decade and I've been buying the content all along, taking all prior content away may cause me to stop paying out of discouragement.
TL;DR: If I already buy just about everything, keeping old and unsupported content available may be the best way to keep me buying.
Ask yourself this question. What are the odds that the current Hasbro/Wotc leadership will score an own goal by doing something like sunsetting digital content early? Make digital purchase with the understanding that they can and likely will go away.
The real problem will be the security of the platform. If you can't move the format to the most up to date security features they'll end it because it becomes a liability as the easiest egress point.
#OpenD&D #ORC
"...or you can find the secret tunnel that leads to the Vault of Dickish DM which is filled with 10,000,000 copper coins and a 5,000 pound solid gold statue of a middle finger that is too big to fit through the door."
Just save the compendium and database pages as HTML files. Far easier that way, and you can convert them to PDF too.
Cannot really salvage the character builder and other tools though.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
It should be noted, when Wizards retired their 4e digital tools, they went above and beyond to minimize the damage to players. When they ended tech support for the system, they shut down new subscriptions - but allowed old users to maintain their subscription or renew their subscription, so no one would lose access to existing characters or have to make drastic changes to their present campaigns. They then left the system in this state for a few years, even providing some limited tech support if users emailed them about problems.
It was only once Microsoft Silverlight (which the 4e tools were based on) announced it would be shuttering that Wizards finally said they would be killing the tools - and they gave players several months notice to save any content they wanted, archive characters, and transition campaigns to different systems. I cannot imagine there were many of us left using the 4e tools at that point, but Wizards still did everything they could to accommodate us as things wound down.
It should also be noted, Beyond has something the 4e tools never had - the site itself is part of Wizards’ long-term plan. Wizards has made it clear they want D&D Beyond to be the primary website for all official D&D content, announcements, etc., supplanting even their main D&D website as your primary source of all official Wizards announcements. Migrating your business over to a singular website gives some long-term security to that website - after all, you do not want your primary user-facing experience to be obsolete or insecure. This creates a greater incentive to keep things on D&D Beyond functional than there ever was for the 4e tools, which were always housed on a secondary site.
I tend to think Wizards will be careful since their self own last year when they tried to lockdown content, but Hasbro not so much. Laying off the most successful creative team they've had in years, maybe ever, comes to mind as a recent indication of how much they care about the quality of their content. And companies often "own goal" such as what happened to HBO recently when they pulled a bunch of successful shows from their streaming service.
Hasbro layoffs: https://www.geekwire.com/2023/hasbro-laying-off-wizards-of-the-coast-staff-is-baffling-and-could-lead-to-a-brain-drain/
I wouldn't look to actions regarding streaming to predict future behaviour in other markets. Streaming has a messed up incentive system for its market which leads to the perverse nature of popular shows being less likely to be renewed.
As for the layoffs, again, there are a lot of dynamics we're not privy to. While it might make me nervous, I'd hesitate to call it an own goal just yet. I'd also point out that while 5e is extremely popular (as far as TTRPGs go), the quality of it is not the main driver behind that. 5e is certainly a good game, but it seems that the runaway success is more down to other factors. As I said, complex dynamics that we're not informed enough to predict.
As I said, 5e on DDB will go one day. Just...not yet.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
That's a tough call. There would have to be something compelling for millions to re-buy existing mechanics, spells, magic items, monster stats, etc. via books and existing digital products.
Though I suspect, pure conjecture, should they launch a new version, it would be for VTT only, and its contents, mechanics, monsters, etc. would be free, and in instead a subscription service + microtransactions.
Most products are purchased by Dungeon Masters, players don't buy nearly as much as Dungeon Masters, because they don't need to, Dungeon Master's need to.
To get players to commit financially, with VTT, you could make micro purchases i.e. instead of a boring, magical, wooden staff, for $X dollars you can have it sparkle and light up, or instead of boring animation of arms raised when you casted a spell, for $X you can see that spell in full effect, or buy other effects for that spell... .
That's my guess.