The primary class feature was FoB, not Stunning Strike.
In terms of impact on a combat, the primary class feature was always stunning strike. Flurry of blows is one extra attack, stunning strike is one turn denied and advantage on attacks, it's pretty reliably better against just about anything reasonably dangerous (FoB is better against a swarm of mooks. The new stunning strike is actually better on a per ki point basis, it just isn't "no point to using a boss who doesn't have a con save of +10, anything less will get stunlocked into irrelevance".
Didn’t read this thread yet but wanted to say I like the change to stunning strike from the UA so if they make the save their speed is halved and next attack has advantage. It fits so much better thematically than the UA’s damage. I had proposed before giving the Dazed condition (is that still a thing?) on a save so it was a good change, imo.
The primary class feature was FoB, not Stunning Strike. And yes, trying to nova both of them at once burns through Ki quickly, kinda like when a Paladin smites on every hit. I don't mind the buff, but frankly most of the complaints I saw about it read like the people didn't understand resource management or tactical decision making.
Stunning Strike may not be a key 2014 class feature but when you are considering what to spend Ki on SS was usually top of the list and worth skipping spending Ki on other features in many cases.
I'm not liking the way of mercy making it into the core and it seems it could be a trap. What do you do as that subclass that isn't done better by a Paladin? I think I would have rather seen the sun soul as a ranged subclass option instead.
Monks can now starve to death, which is interesting. I wonder why that was changed?
I'm not liking the way of mercy making it into the core and it seems it could be a trap. What do you do as that subclass that isn't done better by a Paladin?
No-save poisoned condition for one thing. Also, far greater mobility without needing a mount.
I'm not liking the way of mercy making it into the core and it seems it could be a trap. What do you do as that subclass that isn't done better by a Paladin? I think I would have rather seen the sun soul as a ranged subclass option instead.
Monks can now starve to death, which is interesting. I wonder why that was changed?
What can a subclass do that an entire class can't do better? 🤔
I'm not liking the way of mercy making it into the core and it seems it could be a trap. What do you do as that subclass that isn't done better by a Paladin?
No-save poisoned condition for one thing. Also, far greater mobility without needing a mount.
Rereading the Monk article, it looks like the monks don't need to eat thing is still there:
Self-Restoration — Level 10
Another new level 10 feature, Self-Restoration lets you avoid the levels of Exhaustion you would normally accumulate when going without food or water, and at the end of your turn, end the Charmed, Frightened, or Poisoned condition on yourself.
So not only do they still get to go without food and water, they can do it 5 levels earlier.
Rereading the Monk article, it looks like the monks don't need to eat thing is still there:
Self-Restoration — Level 10
Another new level 10 feature, Self-Restoration lets you avoid the levels of Exhaustion you would normally accumulate when going without food or water, and at the end of your turn, end the Charmed, Frightened, or Poisoned condition on yourself.
So not only do they still get to go without food and water, they can do it 5 levels earlier.
Rereading the Monk article, it looks like the monks don't need to eat thing is still there:
Self-Restoration — Level 10
Another new level 10 feature, Self-Restoration lets you avoid the levels of Exhaustion you would normally accumulate when going without food or water, and at the end of your turn, end the Charmed, Frightened, or Poisoned condition on yourself.
So not only do they still get to go without food and water, they can do it 5 levels earlier.
I think that just means they don’t get exhaustion, not that they don’t need to eat. Like some abilities that let you only need to sleep for 4 hours, but you still need a full 8 resting to benefit from a long rest. So they don’t get the exhaustion, but eventually they just drop dead from hunger. But this is a case where they might be changing, or at least clearing up, the rules around those things. So to me it’s more of a wait and see until we have the full context of all the rules. Though either way, considering how many people hand wave rations, this seems like a ribbon ability for the most part.
Rereading the Monk article, it looks like the monks don't need to eat thing is still there:
Self-Restoration — Level 10
Another new level 10 feature, Self-Restoration lets you avoid the levels of Exhaustion you would normally accumulate when going without food or water, and at the end of your turn, end the Charmed, Frightened, or Poisoned condition on yourself.
So not only do they still get to go without food and water, they can do it 5 levels earlier.
Hmmm does avoiding exhaustion from starvation avoid starvation? I guess we don't know the new starvation rules, or if they will even exist? The new exhaustion rules changed to -1 stacking penalties instead of death, right?
Currently , a character can go without food for a number of days equal to 3 + his or her Constitution modifier (minimum 1). At the end of each day beyond that limit, a character automatically suffers one level of exhaustion. And finishing a long rest reduces a creature's exhaustion level by 1 if they also ingest food and drink.
In 5.24, I think it's likely that the starvation rules will either be changed or outright removed, and since the monk will need food and water, I think they will be able to starve, just they will do it more energetically than others.
Hmmm does avoiding exhaustion from starvation avoid starvation?
The only mechanical effect of starvation is exhaustion, so I guess that's a philosophical question of "is ignoring all penalties for starvation the same as being immune to starvation?"
I'm not liking the way of mercy making it into the core and it seems it could be a trap. What do you do as that subclass that isn't done better by a Paladin? I think I would have rather seen the sun soul as a ranged subclass option instead.
Monks can now starve to death, which is interesting. I wonder why that was changed?
What can a subclass do that an entire class can't do better? 🤔
A rogue is not a better assassin than an assassin rogue, way of shadow monk, or gloomstalker ranger, eh?
If we're talking about playing a character with yin&yang healing/harming hands that can debuff an enemy, that sounds like it has a ton of overlap with the Paladin base class. I'm curious how a lvl 10 warrior of mercy might compare to a lvl 5 warrior of mercy / level 5 paladin. Will the multi class have a lot more uses of healing and more resources for boosting damage on a hit?
If we're talking about playing a character with yin&yang healing/harming hands that can debuff an enemy, that sounds like it has a ton of overlap with the Paladin base class.
Only in very broad terms. The mercy monk is about spamming small heals, which it gets a ton of (significantly more healing per day than a paladin, particularly at higher levels) but it doesn't have as much in the way of large heals.
I'm not liking the way of mercy making it into the core and it seems it could be a trap. What do you do as that subclass that isn't done better by a Paladin? I think I would have rather seen the sun soul as a ranged subclass option instead.
Monks can now starve to death, which is interesting. I wonder why that was changed?
What can a subclass do that an entire class can't do better? 🤔
A rogue is not a better assassin than an assassin rogue, way of shadow monk, or gloomstalker ranger, eh?
If we're talking about playing a character with yin&yang healing/harming hands that can debuff an enemy, that sounds like it has a ton of overlap with the Paladin base class. I'm curious how a lvl 10 warrior of mercy might compare to a lvl 5 warrior of mercy / level 5 paladin. Will the multi class have a lot more uses of healing and more resources for boosting damage on a hit?
I don't know if my post was really understood. I think it is unfair to compare subclasses to classes. A mercy monk will always be a monk first, just like an assassin rogue is a rogue first. An arcane trickster is not a wizard and to expect an arcane trickster to be able to match or compare to a wizard in what a wizard is primarily designed for is a bit silly. Similarly, I believe it is silly to expect that a mercy monk subclass be able to carry the weight of all the paladin features on its back.
That said, a mercy monk can do a great many things very well. If the goal is to keep the party fighting, the mercy monk does the job well enough in play. I played the main healer as a 2014 mercy monk to about level 9 and while I couldn't keep the party from falling unconscious, I was able to get them up again with minimal effort.
As for your 5/5 monk paladin split... if you have the stats for it, I guess. Dex, Con, Wis, and Cha dependency for a dex-based paladin is spreading very little butter over a lot of toast, if you ask me.
As someone who's played several monks, including one all the way to level 20, these changes seem on the whole, interesting, if unnecessary. The 2014 class already played much better than it looked on the page.
I have to say that replacing the interesting "ki" with the bland "focus" makes me sad, however. It's an odd trend where as character abilities become ever more fantastical, the naming conventions become ever more mundane.
In terms of impact on a combat, the primary class feature was always stunning strike. Flurry of blows is one extra attack, stunning strike is one turn denied and advantage on attacks, it's pretty reliably better against just about anything reasonably dangerous (FoB is better against a swarm of mooks. The new stunning strike is actually better on a per ki point basis, it just isn't "no point to using a boss who doesn't have a con save of +10, anything less will get stunlocked into irrelevance".
Didn’t read this thread yet but wanted to say I like the change to stunning strike from the UA so if they make the save their speed is halved and next attack has advantage. It fits so much better thematically than the UA’s damage. I had proposed before giving the Dazed condition (is that still a thing?) on a save so it was a good change, imo.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Stunning Strike may not be a key 2014 class feature but when you are considering what to spend Ki on SS was usually top of the list and worth skipping spending Ki on other features in many cases.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I'm not liking the way of mercy making it into the core and it seems it could be a trap. What do you do as that subclass that isn't done better by a Paladin? I think I would have rather seen the sun soul as a ranged subclass option instead.
Monks can now starve to death, which is interesting. I wonder why that was changed?
No-save poisoned condition for one thing. Also, far greater mobility without needing a mount.
That was a 15th level feature! Was starvation honestly still an issue then?
What can a subclass do that an entire class can't do better? 🤔
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it was more of a ribbon feature which i hope they didnt fully strip from any class tbh
Rereading the Monk article, it looks like the monks don't need to eat thing is still there:
So not only do they still get to go without food and water, they can do it 5 levels earlier.
heck yea!
I think that just means they don’t get exhaustion, not that they don’t need to eat. Like some abilities that let you only need to sleep for 4 hours, but you still need a full 8 resting to benefit from a long rest. So they don’t get the exhaustion, but eventually they just drop dead from hunger.
But this is a case where they might be changing, or at least clearing up, the rules around those things. So to me it’s more of a wait and see until we have the full context of all the rules.
Though either way, considering how many people hand wave rations, this seems like a ribbon ability for the most part.
Hmmm does avoiding exhaustion from starvation avoid starvation? I guess we don't know the new starvation rules, or if they will even exist? The new exhaustion rules changed to -1 stacking penalties instead of death, right?
Currently , a character can go without food for a number of days equal to 3 + his or her Constitution modifier (minimum 1). At the end of each day beyond that limit, a character automatically suffers one level of exhaustion. And finishing a long rest reduces a creature's exhaustion level by 1 if they also ingest food and drink.
In 5.24, I think it's likely that the starvation rules will either be changed or outright removed, and since the monk will need food and water, I think they will be able to starve, just they will do it more energetically than others.
The only mechanical effect of starvation is exhaustion, so I guess that's a philosophical question of "is ignoring all penalties for starvation the same as being immune to starvation?"
A rogue is not a better assassin than an assassin rogue, way of shadow monk, or gloomstalker ranger, eh?
If we're talking about playing a character with yin&yang healing/harming hands that can debuff an enemy, that sounds like it has a ton of overlap with the Paladin base class. I'm curious how a lvl 10 warrior of mercy might compare to a lvl 5 warrior of mercy / level 5 paladin. Will the multi class have a lot more uses of healing and more resources for boosting damage on a hit?
Only in very broad terms. The mercy monk is about spamming small heals, which it gets a ton of (significantly more healing per day than a paladin, particularly at higher levels) but it doesn't have as much in the way of large heals.
I don't know if my post was really understood. I think it is unfair to compare subclasses to classes. A mercy monk will always be a monk first, just like an assassin rogue is a rogue first. An arcane trickster is not a wizard and to expect an arcane trickster to be able to match or compare to a wizard in what a wizard is primarily designed for is a bit silly. Similarly, I believe it is silly to expect that a mercy monk subclass be able to carry the weight of all the paladin features on its back.
That said, a mercy monk can do a great many things very well. If the goal is to keep the party fighting, the mercy monk does the job well enough in play. I played the main healer as a 2014 mercy monk to about level 9 and while I couldn't keep the party from falling unconscious, I was able to get them up again with minimal effort.
As for your 5/5 monk paladin split... if you have the stats for it, I guess. Dex, Con, Wis, and Cha dependency for a dex-based paladin is spreading very little butter over a lot of toast, if you ask me.
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There is no rule in 5e for "just dropping dead from hunger." When you starve in 5e, what you're actually dying from are the exhaustion levels. If your DM rules you get zero exhaustion but die anyway, that's a houserule.
There is no rule currently. Who knows what September will bring.
Judging by the monk feature I don't expect this to change. Otherwise, why mention food and water in connection with exhaustion at all?
As someone who's played several monks, including one all the way to level 20, these changes seem on the whole, interesting, if unnecessary. The 2014 class already played much better than it looked on the page.
I have to say that replacing the interesting "ki" with the bland "focus" makes me sad, however. It's an odd trend where as character abilities become ever more fantastical, the naming conventions become ever more mundane.
They're trying to move away from hard-coded "East Asian martial arts" connotations.