Honestly I think any kind of mechanical hybridization system will hit too many of those issues on representation. Plus it almost would have to be unable to account for future content unless they want to increase the workload for all race design down the line.
Since it's all still 5th edition, technically half-elf and half-orc still exist. Ergo you can ignore the new edition of the handbook and keep playing the races as is from the 2014 PHB. In my gaming group, for example, we have all the current 5e races, plus many more, redesigned along the lines of earlier D&D editions with both +ve and -ve stat modifiers locked to race, because that's the way we like to play. At the end of the day, you can do what you like.
Since it's all still 5th edition, technically half-elf and half-orc still exist. Ergo you can ignore the new edition of the handbook and keep playing the races as is from the 2014 PHB.
You can ignore whatever your DM is cool with you ignoring, but under the new rules, pulling in half-elf or half-orc will drop the race ASIs and replace them with background ASIs (meaning, in particular, that half-elves would no longer be getting +2/+1/+1).
You can ignore whatever your DM is cool with you ignoring, but under the new rules, pulling in half-elf or half-orc will drop the race ASIs and replace them with background ASIs (meaning, in particular, that half-elves would no longer be getting +2/+1/+1).
Not sure how the new rules will handle it and not really interested personally. My point was if you ignore the new PHB edition entirely, as well as things like Tasha's, you can still use the half-elf or half-orc races exactly as they were printed in the 2014 5e rulebook, i.e. with the original racial ability score modifiers. I am the DM in our group.
My favourite D&D character has always been Tanis Half-Elven. The Dragonlance books not only helped introduce me to D&D, but reignited my lapsed love of reading in Junior High. I adore his struggle to find a place in the world and not fitting into society. It mirrors my own struggles as an Aspie youth in feeling like an outsider and seeking a found family.
I strongly dislike that making Tanis in the 2024 rules is just "play a human and pretend to be a half-elf." By that logic, why have ANY species at all when you could just take human, pick an appropriate feat, then reflavour. We don't need any new species, just new level 1 feats.
And using the 2014 rules doesn't work as half-elves don't get enough mechanically: their big bonus is an extra +1 to an Ability Score. Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, and two Skills isn't enough.
You can no longer play half-orc or half-elf specifically from a mechanical perspective (the 2014 Player's Handbook will still be an option to choose from, it's not going anywhere)
So you can confirm that we'll be able to use the 2014 half-elf with the 2024 backgrounds?
i dont think it makes sense tbh if someone is mixed with two different races why are they only getting one parents abilities? youd think they would get a mix between them and thats where the half-race races felt great at like sure you were a half orc but you prob wouldnt have all the abilities of a full orc if you were say half orc half gnome or something.
You can no longer play half-orc or half-elf specifically from a mechanical perspective (the 2014 Player's Handbook will still be an option to choose from, it's not going anywhere)
So you can confirm that we'll be able to use the 2014 half-elf with the 2024 backgrounds?
pretty sure you can tho you just wouldnt use the ASI from the race or the background
i dont think it makes sense tbh if someone is mixed with two different races why are they only getting one parents abilities? youd think they would get a mix between them and thats where the half-race races felt great at like sure you were a half orc but you prob wouldnt have all the abilities of a full orc if you were say half orc half gnome or something.
basically mechanically it doesnt make sense
Trying to mechanically separate characters with parents of different humanoid types runs into problems: 1) It makes people with multiracial backgrounds seem inherently and innately different form their parents, which is uncomfortable for many people who are actually multiracial. 2) It gives special exclusionary status to Half Elf and Half Orc specifically, out of all the other kinds of multispecies characters one could make, which is odd and again uncomfortable. 3) It begs the question why you can't make characters with parents of different sorts, or ancestry that includes more than two humanoid types, which is way too complex to mechanize well
The solution posed on the Origins UA solves all these rather neatly. It makes it so that ones ancestry is lore rather than gameable mechanics and also doesn't innately make people who have such ancestry into some weird, innate, other. Plus it allows the freedom to make characters of whatever ancestry one would like and doesn't give special exclusion to just Half Elf and Half Orc. I hope the UA Origins solution made it through to PHB '24.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Of course, one of the selling points of the Origins UA was that Backgrounds were fully customizable and thus able to be used to represent various things about one's origins, including a heritage from different species and cultures. Fully customizable Backgrounds not being the PHB default undermines the idea that the "Characters with parents of different humanoid kinds" sidebar solution was flexible enough to handle this situation with sensitivity.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Trying to mechanically separate characters with parents of different humanoid types runs into problems: 1) It makes people with multiracial backgrounds seem inherently and innately different form their parents, which is uncomfortable for many people who are actually multiracial.
everyone is different from their parents tho you take parts from your parents and become your own person but it just feels like in the new race stuff that you are only one or the other not both
3) It begs the question why you can't make characters with parents of different sorts, or ancestry that includes more than two humanoid types, which is way too complex to mechanize well
it wasnt so bad in the 2014 PHB the race had some bits but was mainly its own person tho i agree making a mixed race for all of the new races would be hard for them with their time limits and stuff they have.
Trying to mechanically separate characters with parents of different humanoid types runs into problems: 1) It makes people with multiracial backgrounds seem inherently and innately different form their parents, which is uncomfortable for many people who are actually multiracial.
everyone is different from their parents tho you take parts from your parents and become your own person but it just feels like in the new race stuff that you are only one or the other not both
That is only if you narrowly focus in on the special ability. On top of that, it's also kind of narrowly focusing in on mechanics and not the lore of the character, which is also important and true. And yes, while people do tend to be different from their parents, being literally classified as another species entirely is ... very uncomfortable. Which is why it's a good thing Half Elf and Half Orc do not have a separate species entry in the book.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
3) It begs the question why you can't make characters with parents of different sorts, or ancestry that includes more than two humanoid types, which is way too complex to mechanize well
it wasnt so bad in the 2014 PHB the race had some bits but was mainly its own person tho i agree making a mixed race for all of the new races would be hard for them with their time limits and stuff they have.
Which is why the Origins UA Sidebar is a good and actionable solution. It makes one's parentage more about one's lore and backstory than about mechanics, which is where it should be.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Trying to mechanically separate characters with parents of different humanoid types runs into problems: 1) It makes people with multiracial backgrounds seem inherently and innately different form their parents, which is uncomfortable for many people who are actually multiracial.
everyone is different from their parents tho you take parts from your parents and become your own person but it just feels like in the new race stuff that you are only one or the other not both
That is only if you narrowly focus in on the special ability. On top of that, it's also kind of narrowly focusing in on mechanics and not the lore of the character, which is also important and true. And yes, while people do tend to be different from their parents, being literally classified as another species entirely is ... very uncomfortable. Which is why it's a good thing Half Elf and Half Orc do not have a separate species entry in the book.
Theres nothing wrong with being different tho. The book only put them like the because the functioned differently from an orc. Also genetically you would be different from your parents species bc you arent 100% Orc and 100% Dwarf and thats ok too its ok to be different.
3) It begs the question why you can't make characters with parents of different sorts, or ancestry that includes more than two humanoid types, which is way too complex to mechanize well
it wasnt so bad in the 2014 PHB the race had some bits but was mainly its own person tho i agree making a mixed race for all of the new races would be hard for them with their time limits and stuff they have.
Which is why the Origins UA Sidebar is a good and actionable solution. It makes one's parentage more about one's lore and backstory than about mechanics, which is where it should be.
ill be honest im not sure i know what the Origins UA Sidebar is otherwise it might help me understand it a bit more tho is it coming with the 2024 handbook? or staying in UA?
3) It begs the question why you can't make characters with parents of different sorts, or ancestry that includes more than two humanoid types, which is way too complex to mechanize well
it wasnt so bad in the 2014 PHB the race had some bits but was mainly its own person tho i agree making a mixed race for all of the new races would be hard for them with their time limits and stuff they have.
Which is why the Origins UA Sidebar is a good and actionable solution. It makes one's parentage more about one's lore and backstory than about mechanics, which is where it should be.
in a discord im in someone just showed me DC20s custom half race stuff and how it lets you pull things from the race of your parents using a point buy system and that sounds really cool to me. is that something like the origins UA sidebar? or is it different?
Yes, I know, but calling someone or even implying that someone is different enough from their parents to be classified a different species can be hurtful to people who have experienced discrimination their whole lives. You might not think it's that big a deal if you haven't experienced it yourself, but for some people it is a hurtful reminder and echo of the things that have hurt them. Real actual people, including posters on this very forum. It's a big enough deal that even the writers acknowledged that calling people "half" of something was inherently racist.
The book only put them like the because the functioned differently from an orc. Also genetically you would be different from your parents species bc you arent 100% Orc and 100% Dwarf and thats ok too its ok to be different.
Yeah, you say that, but it doesn't make it any less hurtful to people who have experienced the discrimination. You can't just wish away that history and you can't just tell people that it's ok and make them stop feeling the pain of their past.
ill be honest im not sure i know what the Origins UA Sidebar is otherwise it might help me understand it a bit more tho is it coming with the 2024 handbook? or staying in UA?
Yes, I know, but calling someone or even implying that someone is different enough from their parents to be classified a different species can be hurtful to people who have experienced discrimination their whole lives. You might not think it's that big a deal if you haven't experienced it yourself, but for some people it is a hurtful reminder and echo of the things that have hurt them. Real actual people, including posters on this very forum. It's a big enough deal that even the writers acknowledged that calling people "half" of something was inherently racist.
Thing is to me it feels like it's still doing this. In saying that you have to pick which parent your ancestry 'really is', the rules are making you be the same species as one parent but a different species to the other parent. Rather than a unique blend of traits from both parents.
But yeah, I always hated the term 'half'. It sounds derogatory, and only acknowledges half that character's ancestry to make them sound 'lesser'. It intentionally ignores the fact that two halves make a whole.
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Honestly I think any kind of mechanical hybridization system will hit too many of those issues on representation. Plus it almost would have to be unable to account for future content unless they want to increase the workload for all race design down the line.
Since it's all still 5th edition, technically half-elf and half-orc still exist. Ergo you can ignore the new edition of the handbook and keep playing the races as is from the 2014 PHB. In my gaming group, for example, we have all the current 5e races, plus many more, redesigned along the lines of earlier D&D editions with both +ve and -ve stat modifiers locked to race, because that's the way we like to play. At the end of the day, you can do what you like.
You can ignore whatever your DM is cool with you ignoring, but under the new rules, pulling in half-elf or half-orc will drop the race ASIs and replace them with background ASIs (meaning, in particular, that half-elves would no longer be getting +2/+1/+1).
Not sure how the new rules will handle it and not really interested personally. My point was if you ignore the new PHB edition entirely, as well as things like Tasha's, you can still use the half-elf or half-orc races exactly as they were printed in the 2014 5e rulebook, i.e. with the original racial ability score modifiers. I am the DM in our group.
You're constantly posting in 2024 threads to broadcast your lack of interest?
Not a big fan of this change.
My favourite D&D character has always been Tanis Half-Elven. The Dragonlance books not only helped introduce me to D&D, but reignited my lapsed love of reading in Junior High.
I adore his struggle to find a place in the world and not fitting into society. It mirrors my own struggles as an Aspie youth in feeling like an outsider and seeking a found family.
I strongly dislike that making Tanis in the 2024 rules is just "play a human and pretend to be a half-elf." By that logic, why have ANY species at all when you could just take human, pick an appropriate feat, then reflavour. We don't need any new species, just new level 1 feats.
And using the 2014 rules doesn't work as half-elves don't get enough mechanically: their big bonus is an extra +1 to an Ability Score. Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, and two Skills isn't enough.
So you can confirm that we'll be able to use the 2014 half-elf with the 2024 backgrounds?
i dont think it makes sense tbh if someone is mixed with two different races why are they only getting one parents abilities? youd think they would get a mix between them and thats where the half-race races felt great at like sure you were a half orc but you prob wouldnt have all the abilities of a full orc if you were say half orc half gnome or something.
basically mechanically it doesnt make sense
pretty sure you can tho you just wouldnt use the ASI from the race or the background
Trying to mechanically separate characters with parents of different humanoid types runs into problems:
1) It makes people with multiracial backgrounds seem inherently and innately different form their parents, which is uncomfortable for many people who are actually multiracial.
2) It gives special exclusionary status to Half Elf and Half Orc specifically, out of all the other kinds of multispecies characters one could make, which is odd and again uncomfortable.
3) It begs the question why you can't make characters with parents of different sorts, or ancestry that includes more than two humanoid types, which is way too complex to mechanize well
The solution posed on the Origins UA solves all these rather neatly. It makes it so that ones ancestry is lore rather than gameable mechanics and also doesn't innately make people who have such ancestry into some weird, innate, other. Plus it allows the freedom to make characters of whatever ancestry one would like and doesn't give special exclusion to just Half Elf and Half Orc. I hope the UA Origins solution made it through to PHB '24.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Of course, one of the selling points of the Origins UA was that Backgrounds were fully customizable and thus able to be used to represent various things about one's origins, including a heritage from different species and cultures. Fully customizable Backgrounds not being the PHB default undermines the idea that the "Characters with parents of different humanoid kinds" sidebar solution was flexible enough to handle this situation with sensitivity.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
everyone is different from their parents tho you take parts from your parents and become your own person but it just feels like in the new race stuff that you are only one or the other not both
it wasnt so bad in the 2014 PHB the race had some bits but was mainly its own person tho i agree making a mixed race for all of the new races would be hard for them with their time limits and stuff they have.
That is only if you narrowly focus in on the special ability. On top of that, it's also kind of narrowly focusing in on mechanics and not the lore of the character, which is also important and true. And yes, while people do tend to be different from their parents, being literally classified as another species entirely is ... very uncomfortable. Which is why it's a good thing Half Elf and Half Orc do not have a separate species entry in the book.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Which is why the Origins UA Sidebar is a good and actionable solution. It makes one's parentage more about one's lore and backstory than about mechanics, which is where it should be.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Theres nothing wrong with being different tho. The book only put them like the because the functioned differently from an orc. Also genetically you would be different from your parents species bc you arent 100% Orc and 100% Dwarf and thats ok too its ok to be different.
ill be honest im not sure i know what the Origins UA Sidebar is otherwise it might help me understand it a bit more tho is it coming with the 2024 handbook? or staying in UA?
in a discord im in someone just showed me DC20s custom half race stuff and how it lets you pull things from the race of your parents using a point buy system and that sounds really cool to me. is that something like the origins UA sidebar? or is it different?
Yes, I know, but calling someone or even implying that someone is different enough from their parents to be classified a different species can be hurtful to people who have experienced discrimination their whole lives. You might not think it's that big a deal if you haven't experienced it yourself, but for some people it is a hurtful reminder and echo of the things that have hurt them. Real actual people, including posters on this very forum. It's a big enough deal that even the writers acknowledged that calling people "half" of something was inherently racist.
Yeah, you say that, but it doesn't make it any less hurtful to people who have experienced the discrimination. You can't just wish away that history and you can't just tell people that it's ok and make them stop feeling the pain of their past.
The UA is still available for now, go check it out yourself: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/ua/character-origins
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Thing is to me it feels like it's still doing this. In saying that you have to pick which parent your ancestry 'really is', the rules are making you be the same species as one parent but a different species to the other parent. Rather than a unique blend of traits from both parents.
But yeah, I always hated the term 'half'. It sounds derogatory, and only acknowledges half that character's ancestry to make them sound 'lesser'. It intentionally ignores the fact that two halves make a whole.