I’ve noticed the new handbook lacks half orc and half elf. This surprised me as I always thought half elves were pretty popular (don’t know how people feel about half orc though). Is there a reason as to why they are missing from the new handbook? I also remember reading about a “half dragon” in the monster manual but we have Dragonborn’s and they’re already super cool.
(That being said I’ll probably continue to play human for the most part because I’m boring like that)
The half-species are being removed as individual line items and a new set of rules are being added to accommodate any combination of species. Essentially, you will just choose one parent to provide you mechanical benefits (ex. the elf benefits) then will add flavorful appearance features with no mechanical benefits from the other species.
The half-species are being removed as individual line items and a new set of rules are being added to accommodate any combination of species. Essentially, you will just choose one parent to provide you mechanical benefits (ex. the elf benefits) then will add flavorful appearance features with no mechanical benefits from the other species.
I'm hopeful this rule went through from the UA but I haven't seen it officially confirmed anywhere. The species article is silent on it.
Hybrid species like half elves and half orcs have sadly not had their own species entries included in the 2024 rules. The UA replaced these with a sidebar entry which lets you mix two species when it comes to appearance, but you have to pick which species you 'really are' (yes they seriously went there).
However, judging by the fact that they're busy retconning existing half-elf and half-orc NPC's into just elves and orcs, combined with the fact that the species article was strangely silent on the topic, WotC might just have decided that they're not including the option for hybrid species at all.
The half-elf and half-orc options are not present as mechanical options in the 2024 Player's Handbook. This is because WotC has acknowledged that presenting characters of specific mixed heritages as somehow being other from their parents is very problematic.
What this does mean:
Playing a character of mixed heritage will not mean you have to use specific mechanics to represent that
You can still play a character of mixed heritage, you just pick which mechanics of your parents species best represent your character, and then describe them however you want
What this doesn't mean:
You can no longer play characters of mixed heritage
You can no longer play half-orc or half-elf specifically from a mechanical perspective (the 2014 Player's Handbook will still be an option to choose from, it's not going anywhere)
WotC is saying that the existence of mixed-heritage people is itself racist
The moderation team is acutely aware that some individuals and groups will try and push misinformation/disinformation relating to the above points in order to further a message contrary to WotCs stance on inclusion and representation.
There were some problematic issues with Half Orc and their Orc Ancestry, also there is some implied racism with the Half-Orcs. Half-Elves were not problematic in the way Half-Orcs and Orcs were, but someone at WotC reads all Halfs as being "inherently racist" and the remarks in video form were kind of offensive to people with half ancestries IRL, like myself.
But then you mention Half-Dragons. Dragonborn are not called Half-dragon, well maybe some in universe red neck might call them that out of ignorance.
Half-Dragons, there where two kinds of Half-Dragons in D&D history. One kind were dragons forced into humanoid shapes ie Dragonlace.
The other kind are also called were-dragons. People who have both a dragon parent and a human parent, that can shapeshift between dragon and human shape. BTW these were dragons should not be confused with were dragons which are true dragons who live life in human guise. ie Song Dragons, and somegold, silver and bronze dragons.
WotC has done nothing to suggest that half-races are offensive. What they did do was remove the mechanical super soldier of half-elves and simplify the player options to avoid mechanical imbalances or a focus on optimization by picking and choosing multiple options from both. You can fully represent yourself as of mixed heritage, but the mechanical benefits are going to be one of one or the other.
The simplification is actually pretty good, IMO, and gives the player full freedom to express themselves fully from an RP perspective.
WotC has done nothing to suggest that half-races are offensive. What they did do was remove the mechanical super soldier of half-elves and simplify the player options to avoid mechanical imbalances or a focus on optimization by picking and choosing multiple options from both. You can fully represent yourself as of mixed heritage, but the mechanical benefits are going to be one of one or the other.
The simplification is actually pretty good, IMO, and gives the player full freedom to express themselves fully from an RP perspective.
“Frankly, we are not comfortable, and haven’t been for years with any of the options that start with ‘half’,” he explained of this decision. “The half construction is inherently racist so we simply aren’t going to include it in the new Player’s Handbook.” - Jeremy Crawford
This comment was offensive to people in the real world who happen to be a Half, like myself. Being erased never feels good, no matter their intention.
WotC has done nothing to suggest that half-races are offensive. What they did do was remove the mechanical super soldier of half-elves and simplify the player options to avoid mechanical imbalances or a focus on optimization by picking and choosing multiple options from both. You can fully represent yourself as of mixed heritage, but the mechanical benefits are going to be one of one or the other.
The simplification is actually pretty good, IMO, and gives the player full freedom to express themselves fully from an RP perspective.
“Frankly, we are not comfortable, and haven’t been for years with any of the options that start with ‘half’,” he explained of this decision. “The half construction is inherently racist so we simply aren’t going to include it in the new Player’s Handbook.” - Jeremy Crawford
This comment was offensive to people in the real world who happen to be a Half, like myself. Being erased never feels good, no matter their intention.
In this quote, which is being taken out of context, JC is talking about game options and the naming convention (that's what he means by "half construction"). That's why he literally says "any of the options that start with 'half'"
Saying this is a commentary on people of mixed heritage, either real or fantastical, is a gross misrepresentation, and one that borders on behaviour that would violate site rules.
The "half" prefix isn't a universally accepted nomenclature across people of mixed parentage and while you may personally embrace it, many do not. Removing that mechanical distinction and language from the rules does not erase you or anyone else from expressing themselves through the game. What it does do is make it so the people of mix heritage who don't embrace that label, who don't accept themselves as half-this, half-that and instead see themselves exclusively as a whole person, don't have to look at the game rules and see that option staring them back in the face.
I am speaking from acutely personal experience when I say that seeing language you only associate with stigma and othering and shame looking up at you from the pages of the game you love hurts so I can see the rationale here.
That is a gross misrepresentation of what is being said by Crawford. Half-races are not offensive, the social construct of half-races in our own society is. The construct and how it has been used to structure power and erect boundaries of full personhood, limiting those of mixed backgrounds is what is offensive, not the people themselves. This is what they do not wish to include in their game books and, obviously, for good reason.
Honestly I think Eberron's handling of hybrid species was how it should have been done. Khoravar (Elf-Human) and Jhor'guntaal (Human-Orc) have their own cultures, their own nations, and their own species names. They're not treated as something 'half', but rather they're treated as something unique.
Irl hybrid species are unique, with their own traits and appearances compared to the two parent species.
Honestly I think Eberron's handling of hybrid species was how it should have been done. Khoravar (Elf-Human) and Jhor'guntaal (Human-Orc) have their own cultures, their own nations, and their own species names. They're not treated as something 'half', but rather they're treated as something unique.
Irl hybrid species are unique, with their own traits and appearances compared to the two parent species.
Drawing a parallel between people of mixed heritage and "hybrid species" is not appropriate
I'm hopeful this rule went through from the UA but I haven't seen it officially confirmed anywhere. The species article is silent on it.
Player's Handbook Playtest 3: Cleric and Revised Species. The Video on this UA was the infamous one.
I'm aware that rule is in the UA, I'm talking about what made it out of UA to be printed in the finished product, which we don't know quite yet. Lots of things went through the UA process that ultimately didn't get printed; Ardlings are present in the UA you're referring to for example.
Wait what? I thought the DnD playables were meant to be separate species? I was always given the impression that elves, humans, dragonborn, halflings, and orcs were all completely unique and separate species?
I didn't intend to insinuate that irl mixed people are the same as hybrid species, as that certainly isn't the case.
Wait what? I thought the DnD playables were meant to be separate species? I was always given the impression that elves, humans, dragonborn, halflings, and orcs were all completely unique and separate species?
I didn't intend to insinuate that irl mixed people are the same as hybrid species, as that certainly isn't the case.
The playable character types are meant to be different species, but they are also people, so please talk about them as such. To do otherwise is is uncomfortable.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Honestly I think Eberron's handling of hybrid species was how it should have been done. Khoravar (Elf-Human) and Jhor'guntaal (Human-Orc) have their own cultures, their own nations, and their own species names. They're not treated as something 'half', but rather they're treated as something unique.
Completely ignoring the final comment which was made in the post, I agree with this point from a lore standpoint. It's a cool concept to have civilizations founded upon species that aren't considered 'half' of something, but something whole and able to be developed as its own thing. I always thought it was odd with half-elf descriptions, for example, where it had details along the lines of 'they tend to have human names in elven society and elf names in human society to highlight how they don't fit in' I thought it was utterly bizarre that the lore portrayed them as outcasts. It made those societies seem less accepting overall which wasn't a great look, so I see why they're scrapping half species mechanically as that means they don't have to address that part of the lore so explicitly. Hopefully with the adaptation of half-species in future they'll be seen in a more accepting light canonically, even if they don't have explicit rules (which I see as making sense, even if it is a shame, since it brings up the question of 'Why aren't there rules for other half-species?'
TL:DR: Even if half-species aren't mechanically portrayed, I hope the way they are portrayed lore-wise is adapted to make for a more inclusive approach.
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The Strength Of The Nameless and Glory Of The Shiver Lord as titled by Drummer! Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist Cetar Allwood:Human Druid: Last Chapters Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle Sparkles: Aasimar Monk: Drakkenheim: What's in the Here and Now Lith Ja’mas: Githyanki Sorcerer: Ghosts Of Saltmarsh Killer Queen has already extended this signature. Come check it out, it's worth it!
I think I saw in a different thread that someone had said that half-orc and half-elf would get updates in a later book, but I don't have anything specific I can point to for that. Half-orc honestly doesn't have much to offer now that orcs themselves have been fully shifted from antagonist race to PC race, which is a fairly positive shift. Imo half-elf had more going for it narratively, hitting a good "between the fantastic and mundane" feel with the mix of traits. Honestly that one could stand to be reworked as a lineage type option like Reborn, Hexblood, etc.; broaden the scope to more generally cover that archetype rather than be about one specific kind of pairing.
I think I saw in a different thread that someone had said that half-orc and half-elf would get updates in a later book.
Unless it is a purely lore update for a specific setting I don't see this happening. I doubt they would say that they have said about why they are not including Half Elf and Half Orc as a mechanical distinction and then just go back on that philosophy later. And that's a good thing, in my opinion.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Look - if at some point they sat down and put the work in on an actual mechanical hybridization system that allowed you to combine parent traits in a balanced way, I'd be all for that. They definitely didn't have the time to design that in the 2024 PHB though, let alone playtest it, so a "cosmetic hybrid" that only takes its traits from one parent species was/is ultimately the best we can hope for right now.
If they don't mention even the cosmetic hybrid option in the PHB, I'll be disappointed, but the silver lining is that leaves the door open for them to work on something more substantive later; we'll just have to be patient. In the meantime, the folks who want half-elves can simply bring them in from 2014, with a nice balanced +2/+1 from their background.
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I’ve noticed the new handbook lacks half orc and half elf. This surprised me as I always thought half elves were pretty popular (don’t know how people feel about half orc though). Is there a reason as to why they are missing from the new handbook?
I also remember reading about a “half dragon” in the monster manual but we have Dragonborn’s and they’re already super cool.
(That being said I’ll probably continue to play human for the most part because I’m boring like that)
The half-species are being removed as individual line items and a new set of rules are being added to accommodate any combination of species. Essentially, you will just choose one parent to provide you mechanical benefits (ex. the elf benefits) then will add flavorful appearance features with no mechanical benefits from the other species.
I'm hopeful this rule went through from the UA but I haven't seen it officially confirmed anywhere. The species article is silent on it.
inb4 thread lock.
Hybrid species like half elves and half orcs have sadly not had their own species entries included in the 2024 rules. The UA replaced these with a sidebar entry which lets you mix two species when it comes to appearance, but you have to pick which species you 'really are' (yes they seriously went there).
However, judging by the fact that they're busy retconning existing half-elf and half-orc NPC's into just elves and orcs, combined with the fact that the species article was strangely silent on the topic, WotC might just have decided that they're not including the option for hybrid species at all.
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ModeratorThe half-elf and half-orc options are not present as mechanical options in the 2024 Player's Handbook. This is because WotC has acknowledged that presenting characters of specific mixed heritages as somehow being other from their parents is very problematic.
What this does mean:
What this doesn't mean:
The moderation team is acutely aware that some individuals and groups will try and push misinformation/disinformation relating to the above points in order to further a message contrary to WotCs stance on inclusion and representation.
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There were some problematic issues with Half Orc and their Orc Ancestry, also there is some implied racism with the Half-Orcs.
Half-Elves were not problematic in the way Half-Orcs and Orcs were, but someone at WotC reads all Halfs as being "inherently racist" and the remarks in video form were kind of offensive to people with half ancestries IRL, like myself.
But then you mention Half-Dragons. Dragonborn are not called Half-dragon, well maybe some in universe red neck might call them that out of ignorance.
Half-Dragons, there where two kinds of Half-Dragons in D&D history. One kind were dragons forced into humanoid shapes ie Dragonlace.
The other kind are also called were-dragons. People who have both a dragon parent and a human parent, that can shapeshift between dragon and human shape. BTW these were dragons should not be confused with were dragons which are true dragons who live life in human guise. ie Song Dragons, and some gold, silver and bronze dragons.
Player's Handbook Playtest 3: Cleric and Revised Species. The Video on this UA was the infamous one.
WotC has done nothing to suggest that half-races are offensive. What they did do was remove the mechanical super soldier of half-elves and simplify the player options to avoid mechanical imbalances or a focus on optimization by picking and choosing multiple options from both. You can fully represent yourself as of mixed heritage, but the mechanical benefits are going to be one of one or the other.
The simplification is actually pretty good, IMO, and gives the player full freedom to express themselves fully from an RP perspective.
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“Frankly, we are not comfortable, and haven’t been for years with any of the options that start with ‘half’,” he explained of this decision. “The half construction is inherently racist so we simply aren’t going to include it in the new Player’s Handbook.” - Jeremy Crawford
This comment was offensive to people in the real world who happen to be a Half, like myself. Being erased never feels good, no matter their intention.
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ModeratorIn this quote, which is being taken out of context, JC is talking about game options and the naming convention (that's what he means by "half construction"). That's why he literally says "any of the options that start with 'half'"
Saying this is a commentary on people of mixed heritage, either real or fantastical, is a gross misrepresentation, and one that borders on behaviour that would violate site rules.
The "half" prefix isn't a universally accepted nomenclature across people of mixed parentage and while you may personally embrace it, many do not. Removing that mechanical distinction and language from the rules does not erase you or anyone else from expressing themselves through the game. What it does do is make it so the people of mix heritage who don't embrace that label, who don't accept themselves as half-this, half-that and instead see themselves exclusively as a whole person, don't have to look at the game rules and see that option staring them back in the face.
I am speaking from acutely personal experience when I say that seeing language you only associate with stigma and othering and shame looking up at you from the pages of the game you love hurts so I can see the rationale here.
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That is a gross misrepresentation of what is being said by Crawford. Half-races are not offensive, the social construct of half-races in our own society is. The construct and how it has been used to structure power and erect boundaries of full personhood, limiting those of mixed backgrounds is what is offensive, not the people themselves. This is what they do not wish to include in their game books and, obviously, for good reason.
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Honestly I think Eberron's handling of hybrid species was how it should have been done. Khoravar (Elf-Human) and Jhor'guntaal (Human-Orc) have their own cultures, their own nations, and their own species names. They're not treated as something 'half', but rather they're treated as something unique.
Irl hybrid species are unique, with their own traits and appearances compared to the two parent species.
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ModeratorDrawing a parallel between people of mixed heritage and "hybrid species" is not appropriate
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I'm aware that rule is in the UA, I'm talking about what made it out of UA to be printed in the finished product, which we don't know quite yet. Lots of things went through the UA process that ultimately didn't get printed; Ardlings are present in the UA you're referring to for example.
Wait what? I thought the DnD playables were meant to be separate species? I was always given the impression that elves, humans, dragonborn, halflings, and orcs were all completely unique and separate species?
I didn't intend to insinuate that irl mixed people are the same as hybrid species, as that certainly isn't the case.
The playable character types are meant to be different species, but they are also people, so please talk about them as such. To do otherwise is is uncomfortable.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Completely ignoring the final comment which was made in the post, I agree with this point from a lore standpoint. It's a cool concept to have civilizations founded upon species that aren't considered 'half' of something, but something whole and able to be developed as its own thing. I always thought it was odd with half-elf descriptions, for example, where it had details along the lines of 'they tend to have human names in elven society and elf names in human society to highlight how they don't fit in' I thought it was utterly bizarre that the lore portrayed them as outcasts. It made those societies seem less accepting overall which wasn't a great look, so I see why they're scrapping half species mechanically as that means they don't have to address that part of the lore so explicitly. Hopefully with the adaptation of half-species in future they'll be seen in a more accepting light canonically, even if they don't have explicit rules (which I see as making sense, even if it is a shame, since it brings up the question of 'Why aren't there rules for other half-species?'
TL:DR: Even if half-species aren't mechanically portrayed, I hope the way they are portrayed lore-wise is adapted to make for a more inclusive approach.
The Strength Of The Nameless and Glory Of The Shiver Lord as titled by Drummer!
Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
Cetar Allwood: Human Druid: Last Chapters
Borvnir Chelvnich: Black Dragonborn Barbarian: Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Sparkles: Aasimar Monk: Drakkenheim: What's in the Here and Now
Lith Ja’mas: Githyanki Sorcerer: Ghosts Of Saltmarsh
Killer Queen has already extended this signature. Come check it out, it's worth it!
I think I saw in a different thread that someone had said that half-orc and half-elf would get updates in a later book, but I don't have anything specific I can point to for that. Half-orc honestly doesn't have much to offer now that orcs themselves have been fully shifted from antagonist race to PC race, which is a fairly positive shift. Imo half-elf had more going for it narratively, hitting a good "between the fantastic and mundane" feel with the mix of traits. Honestly that one could stand to be reworked as a lineage type option like Reborn, Hexblood, etc.; broaden the scope to more generally cover that archetype rather than be about one specific kind of pairing.
Unless it is a purely lore update for a specific setting I don't see this happening. I doubt they would say that they have said about why they are not including Half Elf and Half Orc as a mechanical distinction and then just go back on that philosophy later. And that's a good thing, in my opinion.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Look - if at some point they sat down and put the work in on an actual mechanical hybridization system that allowed you to combine parent traits in a balanced way, I'd be all for that. They definitely didn't have the time to design that in the 2024 PHB though, let alone playtest it, so a "cosmetic hybrid" that only takes its traits from one parent species was/is ultimately the best we can hope for right now.
If they don't mention even the cosmetic hybrid option in the PHB, I'll be disappointed, but the silver lining is that leaves the door open for them to work on something more substantive later; we'll just have to be patient. In the meantime, the folks who want half-elves can simply bring them in from 2014, with a nice balanced +2/+1 from their background.