Yes, I know, but calling someone or even implying that someone is different enough from their parents to be classified a different species can be hurtful to people who have experienced discrimination their whole lives. You might not think it's that big a deal if you haven't experienced it yourself, but for some people it is a hurtful reminder and echo of the things that have hurt them. Real actual people, including posters on this very forum. It's a big enough deal that even the writers acknowledged that calling people "half" of something was inherently racist.
Thing is to me it feels like it's still doing this. In saying that you have to pick which parent your ancestry 'really is', the rules are making you be the same species as one parent but a different species to the other parent. Rather than a unique blend of traits from both parents.
But yeah, I always hated the term 'half'. It sounds derogatory, and only acknowledges half that character's ancestry to make them sound 'lesser'. It intentionally ignores the fact that two halves make a whole.
What the rules are saying is that you pick which set of mechanical traits best reflects who your character is, but this doesn't dictate who they "really" are. Your parents could be a dwarf and an elf, so you decide if your takes more after their mother and is more dwarven, or takes after their father more and is more elven. Or you could even say that they don't really take after either parent and the best set of mechanics is those of human or goliath and you use those.
The point is the mechanics of each species are not innorexibly tied to what it is to be a person of that species. They're just packages of game rules.
What the rules are saying is that you pick which set of mechanical traits best reflects who your character is, but this doesn't dictate who they "really" are. Your parents could be a dwarf and an elf, so you decide if your takes more after their mother and is more dwarven, or takes after their father more and is more elven. Or you could even say that they don't really take after either parent and the best set of mechanics is those of human or goliath and you use those.
The point is the mechanics of each species are not innorexibly tied to what it is to be a person of that species. They're just packages of game rules.
Wouldn't this better be done by decoupling ancestry from mechanics entirely? Perhaps merging what used to be ancestry mechanics into the background and origin feat section instead?
What the rules are saying is that you pick which set of mechanical traits best reflects who your character is, but this doesn't dictate who they "really" are. Your parents could be a dwarf and an elf, so you decide if your takes more after their mother and is more dwarven, or takes after their father more and is more elven. Or you could even say that they don't really take after either parent and the best set of mechanics is those of human or goliath and you use those.
The point is the mechanics of each species are not innorexibly tied to what it is to be a person of that species. They're just packages of game rules.
Wouldn't this better be done by decoupling ancestry from mechanics entirely? Perhaps merging what used to be ancestry mechanics into the background and origin feat section instead?
This thread is not about what could be done but what is being done. If you wanted to share feedback on what should be done, the time for that was during the playtest for the 2024 Player's Handbook
Yes, I know, but calling someone or even implying that someone is different enough from their parents to be classified a different species can be hurtful to people who have experienced discrimination their whole lives. You might not think it's that big a deal if you haven't experienced it yourself, but for some people it is a hurtful reminder and echo of the things that have hurt them. Real actual people, including posters on this very forum. It's a big enough deal that even the writers acknowledged that calling people "half" of something was inherently racist.
Thing is to me it feels like it's still doing this. In saying that you have to pick which parent your ancestry 'really is', the rules are making you be the same species as one parent but a different species to the other parent. Rather than a unique blend of traits from both parents.
But yeah, I always hated the term 'half'. It sounds derogatory, and only acknowledges half that character's ancestry to make them sound 'lesser'. It intentionally ignores the fact that two halves make a whole.
What the rules are saying is that you pick which set of mechanical traits best reflects who your character is, but this doesn't dictate who they "really" are. Your parents could be a dwarf and an elf, so you decide if your takes more after their mother and is more dwarven, or takes after their father more and is more elven. Or you could even say that they don't really take after either parent and the best set of mechanics is those of human or goliath and you use those.
The point is the mechanics of each species are not innorexibly tied to what it is to be a person of that species. They're just packages of game rules.
I think this is a good way to approach character building. The rules provide suggested, typical sources (species, background, class, subclass, feats) for your character’s features, but you the player (in discussion with your DM) can determine the narrative of how your character gained those features. Perhaps your Goliath mother is reflected in your choice of Species whereas your Dragonborn father is the source of your Draconic sorcery. Maybe your Halfling grandpa is the origin of your Lucky feat ( and your hairy feet…).
Something worth mentioning - if you are not fond of the proposed new rules, or if they do not make it into the main game, there is a great series of third-party supplements on DMs Guild called “An Orc and an Elf had a Little Baby.” The book contains a point buy system for different features, allowing you to take two different species and make a hybrid combination.
I am very critical of poorly balanced third-party products (*looks pointedly at D&D Beyond’s Ghostfire Gaming offerings*), but have been pleasantly surprised with the Orc and Elf books. The points assigned to abilities are fairly conservative, so the end results tend to be relatively commensurate in power to official species. My only real complaint on their balancing is that they overvalue how many points you get back from detriments (like sunlight sensitivity), which can lead to some broken builds.
Like with most supplements, it might take some minor common sense changes to match the 2024 rules. Though, due to how they handle ASI, the books might be more compatible with 2024 than they were with 2014.
Something worth mentioning - if you are not fond of the proposed new rules, or if they do not make it into the main game, there is a great series of third-party supplements on DMs Guild called “An Orc and an Elf had a Little Baby.” The book contains a point buy system for different features, allowing you to take two different species and make a hybrid combination.
I am very critical of poorly balanced third-party products (*looks pointedly at D&D Beyond’s Ghostfire Gaming offerings*), but have been pleasantly surprised with the Orc and Elf books. The points assigned to abilities are fairly conservative, so the end results tend to be relatively commensurate in power to official species. My only real complaint on their balancing is that they overvalue how many points you get back from detriments (like sunlight sensitivity), which can lead to some broken builds.
Like with most supplements, it might take some minor common sense changes to match the 2024 rules. Though, due to how they handle ASI, the books might be more compatible with 2024 than they were with 2014.
The Tal'Dorei Reborn book also has guidelines on how to create what it calls a "mixed ancestry" character
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Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
This thread got a lot of comments. Didn’t expect that.
from what I understand, they’re being removed in a mechanical sense; so no more 2014 half elf and half orc. However, you can still play as one when creating your characters custom lineage, right? So because of that, you take either orc or human bonuses, and elven or human bonuses, right?
for example, someone wants to play as a half orc, but they chose the species bonuses of the orc or human. Similarly, if someone wants to play as a half elf they choose between the human and elf species bonuses. This means that Half Elves and Orcs are still in the game and lore, but the game rules have changed, yeah?
edit: I’d also imagine this customizability will allow for some very interesting and unique characters not just limited to orcs and elves. Also can you mix and match species bonuses or do you have to choose just the ones from one species?
Half-Dragons, there where two kinds of Half-Dragons in D&D history. One kind were dragons forced into humanoid shapes ie Dragonlace.
The other kind are also called were-dragons. People who have both a dragon parent and a human parent, that can shapeshift between dragon and human shape. BTW these were dragons should not be confused with were dragons which are true dragons who live life in human guise. ie Song Dragons, and somegold, silver and bronze dragons.
Oh ok. Wonder how that works? Magic I would assume!
that does make me wonder how dragonborn came about. Guess I’d better brush up on my lore.
This thread got a lot of comments. Didn’t expect that.
from what I understand, they’re being removed in a mechanical sense; so no more 2014 half elf and half orc. However, you can still play as one when creating your characters custom lineage, right? So because of that, you take either orc or human bonuses, and elven or human bonuses, right?
for example, someone wants to play as a half orc, but they chose the species bonuses of the orc or human. Similarly, if someone wants to play as a half elf they choose between the human and elf species bonuses. This means that Half Elves and Orcs are still in the game and lore, but the game rules have changed, yeah?
edit: I’d also imagine this customizability will allow for some very interesting and unique characters not just limited to orcs and elves. Also can you mix and match species bonuses or do you have to choose just the ones from one species?
Per the playtest, you choose one. Say your parents were a halfling and a Goliath. You choose, mechanically, to be either a halfling or a Goliath. You are all one or all the other, no mix and match. Then cosmetically, you do what you like. So maybe you have the Goliath racial traits, but you’re 3’ tall with hairy feet. Or you decide the height difference about evened out, and your 5’9” and you look almost human. Or something else. So the mechanics come as a package, but the way you look (the flavor) you do what you like.
As this has been going on, the other thing that occurs to me is it really opens up for interesting combinations of ancestors. Both of your parents were goliaths, but you’re great-great-grandmother was an elf, so your family has a history of being small goliaths with pointy ears. It has some really good backstory potential.
As this has been going on, the other thing that occurs to me is it really opens up for interesting combinations of ancestors. Both of your parents were goliaths, but you’re great-great-grandmother was an elf, so your family has a history of being small goliaths with pointy ears. It has some really good backstory potential.
My first ever character was a half elf, but my DM let him also be something silly like 1/16th Newt just because I wanted him to have a tail, and we just said that his great, great, great grandfather or whatever was cursed by a hag to have partially newt children. He did then also get a small bonus to breathing underwater (like an extra minute), but he might as well just have been cosmetically different. I can imagine a lot more interesting lineages and stuff can come from the rule changes since although you're using one species's stats, you can customise the history and appearance as much as you want.
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i dont think it makes sense tbh if someone is mixed with two different races why are they only getting one parents abilities? youd think they would get a mix between them and thats where the half-race races felt great at like sure you were a half orc but you prob wouldnt have all the abilities of a full orc if you were say half orc half gnome or something.
basically mechanically it doesnt make sense
Trying to mechanically separate characters with parents of different humanoid types runs into problems: 1) It makes people with multiracial backgrounds seem inherently and innately different form their parents, which is uncomfortable for many people who are actually multiracial. 2) It gives special exclusionary status to Half Elf and Half Orc specifically, out of all the other kinds of multispecies characters one could make, which is odd and again uncomfortable. 3) It begs the question why you can't make characters with parents of different sorts, or ancestry that includes more than two humanoid types, which is way too complex to mechanize well
The solution posed on the Origins UA solves all these rather neatly. It makes it so that ones ancestry is lore rather than gameable mechanics and also doesn't innately make people who have such ancestry into some weird, innate, other. Plus it allows the freedom to make characters of whatever ancestry one would like and doesn't give special exclusion to just Half Elf and Half Orc. I hope the UA Origins solution made it through to PHB '24.
I think this may be my first post here, but this topic is very close to my heart. I want to say that I agree with you in so many ways. I'll disclose that I am mixed racially, and while mixed species is not a direct parallel, people make that comparison, and there are plenty of similarities that give me great empathy when considering mixed species in DnD. Making them innately "other" has always felt tragic to me, as is giving exclusionary status to Human as the only race willing to mix with others in rules as written (Half-Elf, Half-Orc). I am strongly against this, to the point I begged my DM if my Half-Elf bard could be Half-Elf, Half-Orc, as that is who he was and I wanted to express that.
The UA solution gave me such joy and opened up so many possibilities for mixed species. That is why I am upset that, according to DnD Shorts (https://youtu.be/tDXvBPMUAyI?si=4aHmOaF8XOVTTtGZ), the mixed race mechanics didn't make it into the PHB! So now, rules as written for 2024, there are no mixed species at all! This is, to me, a horrible step backwards and I hope that making my voice known will help to give cause to rectify this mistake. I know one forum post is a small voice, but it's what I can do.
In any case, thank you for your take on mixed species. I appreciate it.
EDIT: First post here, don't know how things work. I didn't know how to quote. XD
DND Shorts is a hack with a history of getting caught making up things to make Wizards look bad, but, in this case, actually reliable sources also indicate the UA hybrid species rules might not have made it into the final version. It is possible there is some dicta (non-rules guidance) on the subject, but, as of right now, it seems unlikely there will be official rules. I think that is a misstep on Wizards’ part.
That said, nothing is going to stop you from using the UA content for your backstory - I expect most DMs would be fine with you saying “mechanically, I am choosing an Elf, but I had human father.” That is entirely flavor and non-mechanical, so really should not be a problem. If you want something more than that, third party supplements (as mentioned above) can be great tools to make up Wizards making poor choices.
And if your DM thinks this flavor is a problem and tells you no? I would probably leave the table - if they are being petty about something which doesn’t actually influence mechanics, they’ll probably be a petty DM throughout the campaign.
I'm very surprised they got rid of that mixed ancestry sidebar from the UA. So I guess it now basically comes down to 'ask your DM', which is the same as 2014 unless you were elf-human or human-orc.
i dont think it makes sense tbh if someone is mixed with two different races why are they only getting one parents abilities? youd think they would get a mix between them and thats where the half-race races felt great at like sure you were a half orc but you prob wouldnt have all the abilities of a full orc if you were say half orc half gnome or something.
basically mechanically it doesnt make sense
Trying to mechanically separate characters with parents of different humanoid types runs into problems: 1) It makes people with multiracial backgrounds seem inherently and innately different form their parents, which is uncomfortable for many people who are actually multiracial. 2) It gives special exclusionary status to Half Elf and Half Orc specifically, out of all the other kinds of multispecies characters one could make, which is odd and again uncomfortable. 3) It begs the question why you can't make characters with parents of different sorts, or ancestry that includes more than two humanoid types, which is way too complex to mechanize well
The solution posed on the Origins UA solves all these rather neatly. It makes it so that ones ancestry is lore rather than gameable mechanics and also doesn't innately make people who have such ancestry into some weird, innate, other. Plus it allows the freedom to make characters of whatever ancestry one would like and doesn't give special exclusion to just Half Elf and Half Orc. I hope the UA Origins solution made it through to PHB '24.
I think this may be my first post here, but this topic is very close to my heart. I want to say that I agree with you in so many ways. I'll disclose that I am mixed racially, and while mixed species is not a direct parallel, people make that comparison, and there are plenty of similarities that give me great empathy when considering mixed species in DnD. Making them innately "other" has always felt tragic to me, as is giving exclusionary status to Human as the only race willing to mix with others in rules as written (Half-Elf, Half-Orc). I am strongly against this, to the point I begged my DM if my Half-Elf bard could be Half-Elf, Half-Orc, as that is who he was and I wanted to express that.
The UA solution gave me such joy and opened up so many possibilities for mixed species. That is why I am upset that, according to DnD Shorts (https://youtu.be/tDXvBPMUAyI?si=4aHmOaF8XOVTTtGZ), the mixed race mechanics didn't make it into the PHB! So now, rules as written for 2024, there are no mixed species at all! This is, to me, a horrible step backwards and I hope that making my voice known will help to give cause to rectify this mistake. I know one forum post is a small voice, but it's what I can do.
In any case, thank you for your take on mixed species. I appreciate it.
EDIT: First post here, don't know how things work. I didn't know how to quote. XD
To be honest, the UA mixed heritage rules (or whatever they were called) had no substance to them. They were essentially "pick a species as normal, pick some flavour from the other species that forms part of your heritage, and call yourself aix.of the two".
There is no mechanical reason why any DM worth their salt would not allow you to do this anyway. If you feel that it's the best way to express your mixed heritage character, then it really shouldn't be a problem. I'd let you do it at my table, no problem, if it's in the PHB or not. It's no less balanced than what's already been accepted.
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i dont think it makes sense tbh if someone is mixed with two different races why are they only getting one parents abilities? youd think they would get a mix between them and thats where the half-race races felt great at like sure you were a half orc but you prob wouldnt have all the abilities of a full orc if you were say half orc half gnome or something.
basically mechanically it doesnt make sense
Trying to mechanically separate characters with parents of different humanoid types runs into problems: 1) It makes people with multiracial backgrounds seem inherently and innately different form their parents, which is uncomfortable for many people who are actually multiracial. 2) It gives special exclusionary status to Half Elf and Half Orc specifically, out of all the other kinds of multispecies characters one could make, which is odd and again uncomfortable. 3) It begs the question why you can't make characters with parents of different sorts, or ancestry that includes more than two humanoid types, which is way too complex to mechanize well
The solution posed on the Origins UA solves all these rather neatly. It makes it so that ones ancestry is lore rather than gameable mechanics and also doesn't innately make people who have such ancestry into some weird, innate, other. Plus it allows the freedom to make characters of whatever ancestry one would like and doesn't give special exclusion to just Half Elf and Half Orc. I hope the UA Origins solution made it through to PHB '24.
I think this may be my first post here, but this topic is very close to my heart. I want to say that I agree with you in so many ways. I'll disclose that I am mixed racially, and while mixed species is not a direct parallel, people make that comparison, and there are plenty of similarities that give me great empathy when considering mixed species in DnD. Making them innately "other" has always felt tragic to me, as is giving exclusionary status to Human as the only race willing to mix with others in rules as written (Half-Elf, Half-Orc). I am strongly against this, to the point I begged my DM if my Half-Elf bard could be Half-Elf, Half-Orc, as that is who he was and I wanted to express that.
The UA solution gave me such joy and opened up so many possibilities for mixed species. That is why I am upset that, according to DnD Shorts (https://youtu.be/tDXvBPMUAyI?si=4aHmOaF8XOVTTtGZ), the mixed race mechanics didn't make it into the PHB! So now, rules as written for 2024, there are no mixed species at all! This is, to me, a horrible step backwards and I hope that making my voice known will help to give cause to rectify this mistake. I know one forum post is a small voice, but it's what I can do.
In any case, thank you for your take on mixed species. I appreciate it.
EDIT: First post here, don't know how things work. I didn't know how to quote. XD
Oh no ... that's actually quite sad and upsetting to be honest. I also found that solution to be joyful and freeing.
To be honest, the UA mixed heritage rules (or whatever they were called) had no substance to them. They were essentially "pick a species as normal, pick some flavour from the other species that forms part of your heritage, and call yourself aix.of the two".
There is no mechanical reason why any DM worth their salt would not allow you to do this anyway. If you feel that it's the best way to express your mixed heritage character, then it really shouldn't be a problem. I'd let you do it at my table, no problem, if it's in the PHB or not. It's no less balanced than what's already been accepted.
This is not a comfort. The existence of the UA sidebar was a gesture, yes, but it was a significant one. It spoke volumes about the devs being sensitive to the experience of multiracial players and that sensitivity is what made the game more inclusive and welcoming. I understand that we can still just do it ourselves, but it's disheartening that we have to.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Yep, I just had it confirmed by one of the folks with an advance copy that the "Children of Different Humanoid Kinds" sidebar did not make it through. That's ... just. I am not happy.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Yep, I just had it confirmed by one of the folks with an advance copy that the "Children of Different Humanoid Kinds" sidebar did not make it through. That's ... just. I am not happy.
It's made both camps unhappy which is kinda impressive.
Both the people who wanted rules for mixed species characters, and the people who preferred the playtest sidebar on how to reflavour mixed ancestry characters.
This thread got a lot of comments. Didn’t expect that.
from what I understand, they’re being removed in a mechanical sense; so no more 2014 half elf and half orc. However, you can still play as one when creating your characters custom lineage, right? So because of that, you take either orc or human bonuses, and elven or human bonuses, right?
for example, someone wants to play as a half orc, but they chose the species bonuses of the orc or human. Similarly, if someone wants to play as a half elf they choose between the human and elf species bonuses. This means that Half Elves and Orcs are still in the game and lore, but the game rules have changed, yeah?
edit: I’d also imagine this customizability will allow for some very interesting and unique characters not just limited to orcs and elves. Also can you mix and match species bonuses or do you have to choose just the ones from one species?
Per the playtest, you choose one. Say your parents were a halfling and a Goliath. You choose, mechanically, to be either a halfling or a Goliath. You are all one or all the other, no mix and match. Then cosmetically, you do what you like. So maybe you have the Goliath racial traits, but you’re 3’ tall with hairy feet. Or you decide the height difference about evened out, and your 5’9” and you look almost human. Or something else. So the mechanics come as a package, but the way you look (the flavor) you do what you like.
As this has been going on, the other thing that occurs to me is it really opens up for interesting combinations of ancestors. Both of your parents were goliaths, but you’re great-great-grandmother was an elf, so your family has a history of being small goliaths with pointy ears. It has some really good backstory potential.
Thanks for explaining things to me. Much appreciated!
Yep, I just had it confirmed by one of the folks with an advance copy that the "Children of Different Humanoid Kinds" sidebar did not make it through. That's ... just. I am not happy.
Oh that’s a shame. A sidebar explaining things (like what everyone here just talked about mixed lineages) would have been simple and good for newer players to know.
DND Shorts is a hack with a history of getting caught making up things to make Wizards look bad, but, in this case, actually reliable sources also indicate the UA hybrid species rules might not have made it into the final version. It is possible there is some dicta (non-rules guidance) on the subject, but, as of right now, it seems unlikely there will be official rules. I think that is a misstep on Wizards’ part.
That said, nothing is going to stop you from using the UA content for your backstory - I expect most DMs would be fine with you saying “mechanically, I am choosing an Elf, but I had human father.” That is entirely flavor and non-mechanical, so really should not be a problem. If you want something more than that, third party supplements (as mentioned above) can be great tools to make up Wizards making poor choices.
And if your DM thinks this flavor is a problem and tells you no? I would probably leave the table - if they are being petty about something which doesn’t actually influence mechanics, they’ll probably be a petty DM throughout the campaign.
its not like WOTC needs much help making themselves look bad lol they are pretty good at it on their own
i think this would have been a great time for WOTC to step up their game with races and really flush out how a "half-race" could have been made better while also making it more friendly to people today. a point buy system were you pick from your two races would have been perfect like how Caerwyn_Giyndwr pointed out with the "An Orc and an Elf had a Little Baby" books they mentioned also how DC20 did their "half-race" stuff it would have given the player so much more freedom with the way they think their character would turn out
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ModeratorWhat the rules are saying is that you pick which set of mechanical traits best reflects who your character is, but this doesn't dictate who they "really" are. Your parents could be a dwarf and an elf, so you decide if your takes more after their mother and is more dwarven, or takes after their father more and is more elven. Or you could even say that they don't really take after either parent and the best set of mechanics is those of human or goliath and you use those.
The point is the mechanics of each species are not innorexibly tied to what it is to be a person of that species. They're just packages of game rules.
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Wouldn't this better be done by decoupling ancestry from mechanics entirely? Perhaps merging what used to be ancestry mechanics into the background and origin feat section instead?
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ModeratorThis thread is not about what could be done but what is being done. If you wanted to share feedback on what should be done, the time for that was during the playtest for the 2024 Player's Handbook
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I think this is a good way to approach character building. The rules provide suggested, typical sources (species, background, class, subclass, feats) for your character’s features, but you the player (in discussion with your DM) can determine the narrative of how your character gained those features. Perhaps your Goliath mother is reflected in your choice of Species whereas your Dragonborn father is the source of your Draconic sorcery. Maybe your Halfling grandpa is the origin of your Lucky feat ( and your hairy feet…).
Something worth mentioning - if you are not fond of the proposed new rules, or if they do not make it into the main game, there is a great series of third-party supplements on DMs Guild called “An Orc and an Elf had a Little Baby.” The book contains a point buy system for different features, allowing you to take two different species and make a hybrid combination.
I am very critical of poorly balanced third-party products (*looks pointedly at D&D Beyond’s Ghostfire Gaming offerings*), but have been pleasantly surprised with the Orc and Elf books. The points assigned to abilities are fairly conservative, so the end results tend to be relatively commensurate in power to official species. My only real complaint on their balancing is that they overvalue how many points you get back from detriments (like sunlight sensitivity), which can lead to some broken builds.
Like with most supplements, it might take some minor common sense changes to match the 2024 rules. Though, due to how they handle ASI, the books might be more compatible with 2024 than they were with 2014.
The Tal'Dorei Reborn book also has guidelines on how to create what it calls a "mixed ancestry" character
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
This thread got a lot of comments. Didn’t expect that.
from what I understand, they’re being removed in a mechanical sense; so no more 2014 half elf and half orc. However, you can still play as one when creating your characters custom lineage, right?
So because of that, you take either orc or human bonuses, and elven or human bonuses, right?
for example, someone wants to play as a half orc, but they chose the species bonuses of the orc or human. Similarly, if someone wants to play as a half elf they choose between the human and elf species bonuses. This means that Half Elves and Orcs are still in the game and lore, but the game rules have changed, yeah?
edit: I’d also imagine this customizability will allow for some very interesting and unique characters not just limited to orcs and elves. Also can you mix and match species bonuses or do you have to choose just the ones from one species?
Oh ok. Wonder how that works? Magic I would assume!
that does make me wonder how dragonborn came about. Guess I’d better brush up on my lore.
Per the playtest, you choose one. Say your parents were a halfling and a Goliath. You choose, mechanically, to be either a halfling or a Goliath. You are all one or all the other, no mix and match. Then cosmetically, you do what you like. So maybe you have the Goliath racial traits, but you’re 3’ tall with hairy feet. Or you decide the height difference about evened out, and your 5’9” and you look almost human. Or something else. So the mechanics come as a package, but the way you look (the flavor) you do what you like.
As this has been going on, the other thing that occurs to me is it really opens up for interesting combinations of ancestors. Both of your parents were goliaths, but you’re great-great-grandmother was an elf, so your family has a history of being small goliaths with pointy ears. It has some really good backstory potential.
My first ever character was a half elf, but my DM let him also be something silly like 1/16th Newt just because I wanted him to have a tail, and we just said that his great, great, great grandfather or whatever was cursed by a hag to have partially newt children. He did then also get a small bonus to breathing underwater (like an extra minute), but he might as well just have been cosmetically different. I can imagine a lot more interesting lineages and stuff can come from the rule changes since although you're using one species's stats, you can customise the history and appearance as much as you want.
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Xaul Lackluster: Half-Orc Fathomless Warlock: Warlock Dragon Heist
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I think this may be my first post here, but this topic is very close to my heart. I want to say that I agree with you in so many ways. I'll disclose that I am mixed racially, and while mixed species is not a direct parallel, people make that comparison, and there are plenty of similarities that give me great empathy when considering mixed species in DnD. Making them innately "other" has always felt tragic to me, as is giving exclusionary status to Human as the only race willing to mix with others in rules as written (Half-Elf, Half-Orc). I am strongly against this, to the point I begged my DM if my Half-Elf bard could be Half-Elf, Half-Orc, as that is who he was and I wanted to express that.
The UA solution gave me such joy and opened up so many possibilities for mixed species. That is why I am upset that, according to DnD Shorts (https://youtu.be/tDXvBPMUAyI?si=4aHmOaF8XOVTTtGZ), the mixed race mechanics didn't make it into the PHB! So now, rules as written for 2024, there are no mixed species at all! This is, to me, a horrible step backwards and I hope that making my voice known will help to give cause to rectify this mistake. I know one forum post is a small voice, but it's what I can do.
In any case, thank you for your take on mixed species. I appreciate it.
EDIT: First post here, don't know how things work. I didn't know how to quote. XD
DND Shorts is a hack with a history of getting caught making up things to make Wizards look bad, but, in this case, actually reliable sources also indicate the UA hybrid species rules might not have made it into the final version. It is possible there is some dicta (non-rules guidance) on the subject, but, as of right now, it seems unlikely there will be official rules. I think that is a misstep on Wizards’ part.
That said, nothing is going to stop you from using the UA content for your backstory - I expect most DMs would be fine with you saying “mechanically, I am choosing an Elf, but I had human father.” That is entirely flavor and non-mechanical, so really should not be a problem. If you want something more than that, third party supplements (as mentioned above) can be great tools to make up Wizards making poor choices.
And if your DM thinks this flavor is a problem and tells you no? I would probably leave the table - if they are being petty about something which doesn’t actually influence mechanics, they’ll probably be a petty DM throughout the campaign.
I'm very surprised they got rid of that mixed ancestry sidebar from the UA. So I guess it now basically comes down to 'ask your DM', which is the same as 2014 unless you were elf-human or human-orc.
To be honest, the UA mixed heritage rules (or whatever they were called) had no substance to them. They were essentially "pick a species as normal, pick some flavour from the other species that forms part of your heritage, and call yourself aix.of the two".
There is no mechanical reason why any DM worth their salt would not allow you to do this anyway. If you feel that it's the best way to express your mixed heritage character, then it really shouldn't be a problem. I'd let you do it at my table, no problem, if it's in the PHB or not. It's no less balanced than what's already been accepted.
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Oh no ... that's actually quite sad and upsetting to be honest. I also found that solution to be joyful and freeing.
This is not a comfort. The existence of the UA sidebar was a gesture, yes, but it was a significant one. It spoke volumes about the devs being sensitive to the experience of multiracial players and that sensitivity is what made the game more inclusive and welcoming. I understand that we can still just do it ourselves, but it's disheartening that we have to.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Yep, I just had it confirmed by one of the folks with an advance copy that the "Children of Different Humanoid Kinds" sidebar did not make it through. That's ... just. I am not happy.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
It's made both camps unhappy which is kinda impressive.
Both the people who wanted rules for mixed species characters, and the people who preferred the playtest sidebar on how to reflavour mixed ancestry characters.
Thanks for explaining things to me. Much appreciated!
Oh that’s a shame. A sidebar explaining things (like what everyone here just talked about mixed lineages) would have been simple and good for newer players to know.
its not like WOTC needs much help making themselves look bad lol they are pretty good at it on their own
i think this would have been a great time for WOTC to step up their game with races and really flush out how a "half-race" could have been made better while also making it more friendly to people today. a point buy system were you pick from your two races would have been perfect like how Caerwyn_Giyndwr pointed out with the "An Orc and an Elf had a Little Baby" books they mentioned also how DC20 did their "half-race" stuff it would have given the player so much more freedom with the way they think their character would turn out
Maybe it'll be in the DMG alongside the custom background rules.