Hey.. please don't. I'll move to Roll20 permanently if you all don't get your act together. This is just ridiculous! Give us the option to keep the old stuff because we prefer it anyways! (Context: DNDBeyond is removing Spell and Magic Items from the 2014 version of the game which have not changed in 10 years, and replacing them with their new versions without even giving us the option to keep the old.)
They won't, this is to force you to buy the new books, or lose the ability to access 90% of spells and many magic items from previous purchases. They see this as a way to funnel users into their new edition regardless of if they want to or not weaponising the sunk cost fallacy.
Name one spell you prefer the old version. Is it the broken spiritual weapon, which should always have had concentration? Healing spells that were laughably underpowered when compared to monster damage output? Cantrips that no one ever took because they were vastly inferior to other options?
Here is the reality, this isn’t a big deal - and anything you desperately want to keep you still will have access to the rules text and can fix with a homebrew spell of item.
With the amount of effort people are putting into making a mountain out of this insignificant molehill, they could have solved their own problem on the homebrew system.
For those who didn't see the original update about the changes coming to D&D Beyond for the 2024 Player's Handbook, here is the relevant section:
=====================================
So, there is a way to still use them, but it will be somewhat clunky and time-consuming (although I'm wondering if one person, or more, does the work to put the spells in Homebrew if they would then be shared with the community).
Also, the 2014 Rulebook will still accessible on D&D Beyond.
Keep in mind the old ones will be lost only if there is a new version, which mean u are not losing anything really unless u prefer the old spell but not all of them are gone until replaced.
If I buy a digital version of Mario Kart 64 and enjoy the broken ass glitches and shit textures it's not an improvement to "update" me to Mario Kart Wii.
The choice of whether or not to swap to a new product is a choice the consumer makes, not the company. That'd be true if the new game was improved in every conceivable metric.
If I buy a digital version of Mario Kart 64 and enjoy the broken ass glitches and shit textures it's not an improvement to "update" me to Mario Kart Wii.
The choice of whether or not to swap to a new product is a choice the consumer makes, not the company. That'd be true if the new game was improved in every conceivable metric.
And yet, if you buy an expansion in ESO, you can't expect to keep the old stats on stuff from it if they happen to change those stats down the line.
The problem I see with these arguments is that how you thought DNDB worked (Mario Cart vs ESO) shades your perception of how they're going about it. Both sides could probably take a step back and a deep breath and try to actually see the points being made.
I sympathize with those that are upset. I, too, can't really see why it would have been so hard to legacy/2014 tag the old spells while they write up the new ones. On the other hand, I also agree that there has been some serious overreacting on the part of those who don't like the way they are handling it (spells disappearing, having to homebrew literally every spell, character sheets completely breaking if you don't buy the 2024 books, etc.). So much so that it feels a lot like entitlement.
And yet, if you buy an expansion in ESO, you can't expect to keep the old stats on stuff from it if they happen to change those stats down the line.
The problem I see with these arguments is that how you thought DNDB worked (Mario Cart vs ESO) shades your perception of how they're going about it. Both sides could probably take a step back and a deep breath and try to actually see the points being made.
I sympathize with those that are upset. I, too, can't really see why it would have been so hard to legacy/2014 tag the old spells while they write up the new ones. On the other hand, I also agree that there has been some serious overreacting on the part of those who don't like the way they are handling it (spells disappearing, having to homebrew literally every spell, character sheets completely breaking if you don't buy the 2024 books, etc.). So much so that it feels a lot like entitlement.
I don't think an MMO is a good comparison for three reasons:
An MMO is sold as a perpetually updating experience ahead of time, you go into it expecting that. Books are not sold under that model. They are mostly a finished product with occasional hyper specific erratas that change the bare minimum in order to clarify rules.
MMO's whole shtick is a living world you engage with other players in, it needs a fairly unified version of that game to facilitate that. Tabletop gaming in contrast is a ruleset, it doesn't have the burden of needing a unified version.
MMO's still get massive backlash when their new expansions change the advertised user experience. (See the addition of cash shops to subscription MMOs as an example), or heck check out how artists react with changes to photoshops T&Cs.
And people are acting entitled because... They kind of are entitled to the services they were advertised? DDB sells products with the line "Compatible with the toolset" if it's not then to me there's no reason to buy anything here. I certainly wouldn't have.
I feel like whenever there's backlash to WotC people get annoyed at the idea of people being annoyed and skip right over asking whether or not business practices are reasonable.
in this particular case we have a website that already has support for non official content, already has support for legacy content, and already has the functionality to create new spell lists with the same names... So we know this choice to axe functionality is made entirely unnecessarily. So if you paid money with that functionality in mind I think it's reasonable to be annoyed its being taken away.
Meeting in the middle on this isn't like "Well accept a few changes to your game cause WotC want you to, why not?" it's "WotC should just use the features this website already has." and if they don't I think people saying they're going to walk is fine.
If I buy a digital version of Mario Kart 64 and enjoy the broken ass glitches and shit textures it's not an improvement to "update" me to Mario Kart Wii.
The choice of whether or not to swap to a new product is a choice the consumer makes, not the company. That'd be true if the new game was improved in every conceivable metric.
It actually matters a lot.
2024 is basically an errata, and I don't recall a massive backlash to errata updates until today.
Name one spell you prefer the old version. Is it the broken spiritual weapon, which should always have had concentration? Healing spells that were laughably underpowered when compared to monster damage output? Cantrips that no one ever took because they were vastly inferior to other options?
Here is the reality, this isn’t a big deal - and anything you desperately want to keep you still will have access to the rules text and can fix with a homebrew spell of item.
With the amount of effort people are putting into making a mountain out of this insignificant molehill, they could have solved their own problem on the homebrew system.
I paid for those versions, I paid for the original content. They're taking it away, basically, without my consent. It's the principle!
I sympathize with those that are upset. I, too, can't really see why it would have been so hard to legacy/2014 tag the old spells while they write up the new ones. On the other hand, I also agree that there has been some serious overreacting on the part of those who don't like the way they are handling it (spells disappearing, having to homebrew literally every spell, character sheets completely breaking if you don't buy the 2024 books, etc.). So much so that it feels a lot like entitlement.
Entitlement is telling others who are upset or angry at having seemed to have wasted money to just suck it up and showing little to no empathy towards them because at least you got what you wanted and the money you might have spent on older versions of things means nothing to you. It's being the little rich kid on the block.
To be fair you said you sympathize with them. Others aren't being so courteous.
If I buy a digital version of Mario Kart 64 and enjoy the broken ass glitches and shit textures it's not an improvement to "update" me to Mario Kart Wii.
The choice of whether or not to swap to a new product is a choice the consumer makes, not the company. That'd be true if the new game was improved in every conceivable metric.
It actually matters a lot.
2024 is basically an errata, and I don't recall a massive backlash to errata updates until today.
Given WotC went through a long playtest cycle, produced new art and are selling new books... I think calling it an errata is a pretty big stretch.
If you own a Tesla and Elon Musk replaces it with the bottom half of a Cybertruck he can't go "Actually I renamed it Tesla model 5.5, so actually this is a helpful free update for you! Also feel free to buy the rest of the truck at any time"
If I buy a digital version of Mario Kart 64 and enjoy the broken ass glitches and shit textures it's not an improvement to "update" me to Mario Kart Wii.
The choice of whether or not to swap to a new product is a choice the consumer makes, not the company. That'd be true if the new game was improved in every conceivable metric.
It actually matters a lot.
2024 is basically an errata, and I don't recall a massive backlash to errata updates until today.
Given WotC went through a long playtest cycle, produced new art and are selling new books... I think calling it an errata is a pretty big stretch.
If you own a Tesla and Elon Musk replaces it with the bottom half of a Cybertruck he can't go "Actually I renamed it Tesla model 5.5, so actually this is a helpful free update for you! Also feel free to buy the rest of the truck at any time"
Except I'm talking specificallyabout the rules that are being replaced in the builder, not the entire 2024 rules suite. I should have edited my previous response for clarity.
If I buy a digital version of Mario Kart 64 and enjoy the broken ass glitches and shit textures it's not an improvement to "update" me to Mario Kart Wii.
The choice of whether or not to swap to a new product is a choice the consumer makes, not the company. That'd be true if the new game was improved in every conceivable metric.
It actually matters a lot.
2024 is basically an errata, and I don't recall a massive backlash to errata updates until today.
Given WotC went through a long playtest cycle, produced new art and are selling new books... I think calling it an errata is a pretty big stretch.
If you own a Tesla and Elon Musk replaces it with the bottom half of a Cybertruck he can't go "Actually I renamed it Tesla model 5.5, so actually this is a helpful free update for you! Also feel free to buy the rest of the truck at any time"
Just wanting to put this out there for the record - you complained about someone's somewhat sensible analogy... and then had the audacity to post a completely nonsensical one. A better analogy would be owning a Tesla and getting a software update that fixes some performance issues for free which... actually does happen and owners are generally fairly happy about getting free fixes to known issues.
The reality? This is a win-win situation for everyone. Everyone gets free upgrades to spells. Those who want to use the old version still have access to the rules text and can easily homebrew them into their game if they want. There is no real downside to this... other than people whining about change because they simply fear change.
But, of course, complaining about something that is good for the health of the game and does not really have a downside is very on brand for the panic-prone, and easily misled by intentional fearmongering, vocal minority of the D&D community.
If I buy a digital version of Mario Kart 64 and enjoy the broken ass glitches and shit textures it's not an improvement to "update" me to Mario Kart Wii.
The choice of whether or not to swap to a new product is a choice the consumer makes, not the company. That'd be true if the new game was improved in every conceivable metric.
It actually matters a lot.
2024 is basically an errata, and I don't recall a massive backlash to errata updates until today.
Given WotC went through a long playtest cycle, produced new art and are selling new books... I think calling it an errata is a pretty big stretch.
If you own a Tesla and Elon Musk replaces it with the bottom half of a Cybertruck he can't go "Actually I renamed it Tesla model 5.5, so actually this is a helpful free update for you! Also feel free to buy the rest of the truck at any time"
Just wanting to put this out there for the record - you complained about someone's somewhat sensible analogy... and then had the audacity to post a completely nonsensical one. A better analogy would be owning a Tesla and getting a software update that fixes some performance issues for free which... actually does happen and owners are generally fairly happy about getting free fixes to known issues.
The reality? This is a win-win situation for everyone. Everyone gets free upgrades to spells. Those who want to use the old version still have access to the rules text and can easily homebrew them into their game if they want. There is no real downside to this... other than people whining about change because they simply fear change.
But, of course, complaining about something that is good for the health of the game and does not really have a downside is very on brand for the panic-prone, and easily misled by intentional fearmongering, vocal minority of the D&D community.
Well the analogy i don't think was sensible, because tabletop games are not structured at all like ongoing MMOs. They're finished products. (In fact to add another reason to why that analogy is wrong- you typically can still play with old content when a new expansion hits an MMO)
But sure I'll update the analogy.
Musk replaces your car and goes "Actually it's much better! Our user Caerwyn swears they like it better in every way and you should to!"
It's not the product we paid for Caerwyn. You liking it better doesn't mean we should have to use it.
Just wanting to put this out there for the record - you complained about someone's somewhat sensible analogy... and then had the audacity to post a completely nonsensical one. A better analogy would be owning a Tesla and getting a software update that fixes some performance issues for free which... actually does happen and owners are generally fairly happy about getting free fixes to known issues.
The reality? This is a win-win situation for everyone. Everyone gets free upgrades to spells. Those who want to use the old version still have access to the rules text and can easily homebrew them into their game if they want. There is no real downside to this... other than people whining about change because they simply fear change.
But, of course, complaining about something that is good for the health of the game and does not really have a downside is very on brand for the panic-prone, and easily misled by intentional fearmongering, vocal minority of the D&D community.
You don't fear change? If someday the IP falls into the hands of another company you will express absolutely zero concerns? Don't accuse people of things of which you yourself are perfectly capable.
Your last paragraph presents your own subjective opinion—and that of others whose almost every post in these forums is in defense of any and every decision the company makes—as "fact." A bit like you tried to pass off the differences between how attacking was handled in 1st. Edition and how it was handled in 2nd. Edition as some sort of cosmic change. Try again.
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Hey.. please don't. I'll move to Roll20 permanently if you all don't get your act together. This is just ridiculous! Give us the option to keep the old stuff because we prefer it anyways! (Context: DNDBeyond is removing Spell and Magic Items from the 2014 version of the game which have not changed in 10 years, and replacing them with their new versions without even giving us the option to keep the old.)
They won't, this is to force you to buy the new books, or lose the ability to access 90% of spells and many magic items from previous purchases. They see this as a way to funnel users into their new edition regardless of if they want to or not weaponising the sunk cost fallacy.
Name one spell you prefer the old version. Is it the broken spiritual weapon, which should always have had concentration? Healing spells that were laughably underpowered when compared to monster damage output? Cantrips that no one ever took because they were vastly inferior to other options?
Here is the reality, this isn’t a big deal - and anything you desperately want to keep you still will have access to the rules text and can fix with a homebrew spell of item.
With the amount of effort people are putting into making a mountain out of this insignificant molehill, they could have solved their own problem on the homebrew system.
Name one? I could name a genre of spells, and that's the conjuration list where you actually summon creatures. They work completely different now.
For those who didn't see the original update about the changes coming to D&D Beyond for the 2024 Player's Handbook, here is the relevant section:
=====================================
So, there is a way to still use them, but it will be somewhat clunky and time-consuming (although I'm wondering if one person, or more, does the work to put the spells in Homebrew if they would then be shared with the community).
Also, the 2014 Rulebook will still accessible on D&D Beyond.
Keep in mind the old ones will be lost only if there is a new version, which mean u are not losing anything really unless u prefer the old spell but not all of them are gone until replaced.
WAIT, WHAT!?
I'm just hearing about this, THIS SUCKS!
The one who wants to hug quite literally everyone, for no reason whatsoever. Get him to an Asylum.
Just some guy who likes memes and DND!
Some may know me as a particularly goofy vermin if you play a Sonic game where you commit blasts of robo...2...
(online Monday-Friday from 8:00 to 3:00) (Most of the time.)
First ACTUAL RP character as a SHEET!!! He's a foxfolk.
Hewwo! ^w^ You wanna see a surprise? :3
It doesn't matter?
If I buy a digital version of Mario Kart 64 and enjoy the broken ass glitches and shit textures it's not an improvement to "update" me to Mario Kart Wii.
The choice of whether or not to swap to a new product is a choice the consumer makes, not the company. That'd be true if the new game was improved in every conceivable metric.
And yet, if you buy an expansion in ESO, you can't expect to keep the old stats on stuff from it if they happen to change those stats down the line.
The problem I see with these arguments is that how you thought DNDB worked (Mario Cart vs ESO) shades your perception of how they're going about it. Both sides could probably take a step back and a deep breath and try to actually see the points being made.
I sympathize with those that are upset. I, too, can't really see why it would have been so hard to legacy/2014 tag the old spells while they write up the new ones. On the other hand, I also agree that there has been some serious overreacting on the part of those who don't like the way they are handling it (spells disappearing, having to homebrew literally every spell, character sheets completely breaking if you don't buy the 2024 books, etc.). So much so that it feels a lot like entitlement.
I don't think an MMO is a good comparison for three reasons:
And people are acting entitled because... They kind of are entitled to the services they were advertised? DDB sells products with the line "Compatible with the toolset" if it's not then to me there's no reason to buy anything here. I certainly wouldn't have.
I feel like whenever there's backlash to WotC people get annoyed at the idea of people being annoyed and skip right over asking whether or not business practices are reasonable.
in this particular case we have a website that already has support for non official content, already has support for legacy content, and already has the functionality to create new spell lists with the same names... So we know this choice to axe functionality is made entirely unnecessarily. So if you paid money with that functionality in mind I think it's reasonable to be annoyed its being taken away.
Meeting in the middle on this isn't like "Well accept a few changes to your game cause WotC want you to, why not?" it's "WotC should just use the features this website already has." and if they don't I think people saying they're going to walk is fine.
It actually matters a lot.
2024 is basically an errata, and I don't recall a massive backlash to errata updates until today.
I still want to keep what I paid for.
I paid for those versions, I paid for the original content. They're taking it away, basically, without my consent. It's the principle!
Entitlement is telling others who are upset or angry at having seemed to have wasted money to just suck it up and showing little to no empathy towards them because at least you got what you wanted and the money you might have spent on older versions of things means nothing to you. It's being the little rich kid on the block.
To be fair you said you sympathize with them. Others aren't being so courteous.
Given WotC went through a long playtest cycle, produced new art and are selling new books... I think calling it an errata is a pretty big stretch.
If you own a Tesla and Elon Musk replaces it with the bottom half of a Cybertruck he can't go "Actually I renamed it Tesla model 5.5, so actually this is a helpful free update for you! Also feel free to buy the rest of the truck at any time"
Except I'm talking specifically about the rules that are being replaced in the builder, not the entire 2024 rules suite. I should have edited my previous response for clarity.
I'm already working on the spells, I will try and remember to post a link to share them with yall
Just wanting to put this out there for the record - you complained about someone's somewhat sensible analogy... and then had the audacity to post a completely nonsensical one. A better analogy would be owning a Tesla and getting a software update that fixes some performance issues for free which... actually does happen and owners are generally fairly happy about getting free fixes to known issues.
The reality? This is a win-win situation for everyone. Everyone gets free upgrades to spells. Those who want to use the old version still have access to the rules text and can easily homebrew them into their game if they want. There is no real downside to this... other than people whining about change because they simply fear change.
But, of course, complaining about something that is good for the health of the game and does not really have a downside is very on brand for the panic-prone, and easily misled by intentional fearmongering, vocal minority of the D&D community.
Well the analogy i don't think was sensible, because tabletop games are not structured at all like ongoing MMOs. They're finished products. (In fact to add another reason to why that analogy is wrong- you typically can still play with old content when a new expansion hits an MMO)
But sure I'll update the analogy.
Musk replaces your car and goes "Actually it's much better! Our user Caerwyn swears they like it better in every way and you should to!"
It's not the product we paid for Caerwyn. You liking it better doesn't mean we should have to use it.
You don't fear change? If someday the IP falls into the hands of another company you will express absolutely zero concerns? Don't accuse people of things of which you yourself are perfectly capable.
Your last paragraph presents your own subjective opinion—and that of others whose almost every post in these forums is in defense of any and every decision the company makes—as "fact." A bit like you tried to pass off the differences between how attacking was handled in 1st. Edition and how it was handled in 2nd. Edition as some sort of cosmic change. Try again.