Like others, I want to know what a "full sized book" is before I get excited.
If this is just exactly like Spelljammer or Planescape where they took a 256-page book and split it into to 128-page books then I'm not really excited. It's what we had before without the slipcase. If this is a 128-page book and a 256-page book (or larger) then I'll be happy.
Plus, I really want the DM book to explore ALL of the Realms with a page or two on each major region and a deep dive into the five specific areas. I'll be very dissapointed if it's mostly those areas and nothing on Sembia and Cormyr and the Moonsea and Neverwinter etc
The general exploration of the Realms, which I expect will be more then just a page or two per region, but rather per nation or more, will actually be in the FR Player's Guide, not the DM book, because Player's, especially new players will need that to build their characters and anchor them to the world, because that is the kind of stuff their characters would know. The deep dives in the 5 regions are likely in the DM book instead partly because they will have DM secrets Player's shouldn't know about the region, but also so they can use the region to illustrate how to do settings with a particular theme to them.
Splitting the books into separate player and GM books is a much welcomed improvement. I am still worried with what they consider to be full books though, and I do not want a repeat of S:AIS and P:AITM.
I'm mostly just concerned that the player's book will present a lot of the 2014 archetypes, etc. updated to 2024 rules, rather than anything new or interesting.
i would have prefered them to do this with Greyhawk instead of Forgotten Realms. we got tons of crap for FR but not much for Greyhawk, give some of the other realms love for once
I'm mostly just concerned that the player's book will present a lot of the 2014 archetypes, etc. updated to 2024 rules, rather than anything new or interesting.
I am going the optimistic route and hoping they hit this one out of the park! A limited edition slip case set with some big fold out maps would be amazing!
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
for Flamepulse and others that don't care that much (or at all) for the Forgotten realms - think of it from a business perspective. Roughly 25% of the table base uses some sort of Forgotten realms clone, 25% is all the other published realms combined and 50% is individual homebrew worlds. if you're going to put out sourcebooks for a new version, where do you start? with the biggest fraction of your base possible. the player book should sell to not only the entire DM base but to at least the FR player base and to some portion of everyone else. biggest bang for their buck. the DM's guide isn't going to sell as well but you can't really not put it out so if one is large and one smaller, I expect the players book to be truly full size while the DM book may be smaller. Once they see how sales go for the 3 new core books and the FR books, they should have a better idea of where to go next.
I do love that they breaking apart the Player and DM goodies into 2 books. My FEAR is that they are going to "Lore Dump" and nothing else in the DM guide, sales will be trash, and they will return to one book for everyone for the future.
IMO, including new stat blocks throughout the book would go a LONG way to keeping DM interest up and sales strong, but so far... I've read nothing about that inclusion. This would be a perfect opportunity to give us a handful of stat blocks for additional generic pirates or such, assorted different Red Wizards, and for notable NPCs in the Realms from specific dragons (like Arveiaturace and Themberchaud) to the characters from Baldur's Gate 3. Even if most of these are just tweaks on the MM versions, they are SO helpful and would give DM's another reason to spend the money on an additional book. Same is true for magic items.
I'd not expect Kara-Tur, Wa or any other Asia analogues for a long while. They're(wisely) being avoided for multiple reasons.
I just want fixed/buffed Purple Dragon Knight, Crown Paladin, & other SCAG-exclusive subclasses. Some new ones would be nice, but not repeating the mistakes of SCAG is crucial to a more positive result this time.
(Cheerleader Knight buff truly is what I want most:Go Purple Dragons!)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I love the approach being taken here splitting up the player-facing and DM-targeted products.
I agree on splitting the books. But I wonder how long before people start calling it a money grab?
Depends how they do it. If they take one book, split it into two smaller ones and charge full price for them? Money grab.
As opposed to stuffing it into one book, charging more, and having to buy it when you will only use half.
Except they'll charge more for the two smaller books - as proven by when they've done this in the past.
I'll have to wait and see. It'll be more expensive to split it for those who'd be looking to get all of the content (I'm one of them), but I've been arguing for split books for a while. I don't think it's right to hide player options in an adventure book. Setting books are a bit different I guess - although I have to admit, their attempts to do that have been less than stellar.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I love the approach being taken here splitting up the player-facing and DM-targeted products.
I agree on splitting the books. But I wonder how long before people start calling it a money grab?
Depends how they do it. If they take one book, split it into two smaller ones and charge full price for them? Money grab.
As opposed to stuffing it into one book, charging more, and having to buy it when you will only use half.
Except they'll charge more for the two smaller books - as proven by when they've done this in the past.
It’s more expensive to make two smaller books. You have to bind and cover 2 books instead of one. Pay artists for 2 cover portraits. Box and ship twice as many, etc. So, yes, I’d expect to pay more for two smaller books than one large one.
I rather pay more for two books too. It makes finding information a bit easier. I am just worried that if they split the book, they will put very little content in each book. The book sizes in S:AIS and P:AITM are very disappointing, and I rather they charged a higher price if it meant there was more meat in them. At least for me, price is not the issue. Even if Wizards is trying to reach a broader GM audience with a more friendly price in exchange for less content, the amount of content for the price they charged does not even seem worth it. It does not offer good value for budget conscious GMs, nor does it sate the thirst of more financially able GMs.
I love the approach being taken here splitting up the player-facing and DM-targeted products.
I agree on splitting the books. But I wonder how long before people start calling it a money grab?
Depends how they do it. If they take one book, split it into two smaller ones and charge full price for them? Money grab.
As opposed to stuffing it into one book, charging more, and having to buy it when you will only use half.
Except they'll charge more for the two smaller books - as proven by when they've done this in the past.
I'll have to wait and see. It'll be more expensive to split it for those who'd be looking to get all of the content (I'm one of them), but I've been arguing for split books for a while. I don't think it's right to hide player options in an adventure book. Setting books are a bit different I guess - although I have to admit, their attempts to do that have been less than stellar.
[REDACTED] And well have to see what the books cost. If they charge the same 29.99 (digital) for both smaller books that is a problem. But split books IS a increase in cost overhead, so yes it isn't going to just be half if they do a lower price.
I love the approach being taken here splitting up the player-facing and DM-targeted products.
I agree on splitting the books. But I wonder how long before people start calling it a money grab?
Depends how they do it. If they take one book, split it into two smaller ones and charge full price for them? Money grab.
As opposed to stuffing it into one book, charging more, and having to buy it when you will only use half.
Except they'll charge more for the two smaller books - as proven by when they've done this in the past.
I'll have to wait and see. It'll be more expensive to split it for those who'd be looking to get all of the content (I'm one of them), but I've been arguing for split books for a while. I don't think it's right to hide player options in an adventure book. Setting books are a bit different I guess - although I have to admit, their attempts to do that have been less than stellar.
[REDACTED] And well have to see what the books cost. If they charge the same 29.99 (digital) for both smaller books that is a problem. But split books IS a increase in cost overhead, so yes it isn't going to just be half if they do a lower price.
Who said anything about getting mad? [REDACTED]
They charge $50 for an overall smaller digital book, just split into three. Similar ratios for the physical.
How about, rather than trying to find loopholes in order to make things more profitable for WotC to the detriment of consumers, we propose what the request was:
Two separate books, each full size. One is directed towards the DM - a setting guide, a bestiary, and an adventure, or some combination. Another book, aimed at players, with character options, any mechanics specific to the setting, lore about the setting that players would use, and so forth. If that's not enough to fill a book, they could include multiple settings. They then, get this, charge a full book price for a full book of content. So they sell you two books, and you can get two books worth of content, rather than charging you for two books and giving you less content than one.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I rather pay more for two books too. It makes finding information a bit easier. I am just worried that if they split the book, they will put very little content in each book. The book sizes in S:AIS and P:AITM are very disappointing, and I rather they charged a higher price if it meant there was more meat in them. At least for me, price is not the issue. Even if Wizards is trying to reach a broader GM audience with a more friendly price in exchange for less content, the amount of content for the price they charged does not even seem worth it. It does not offer good value for budget conscious GMs, nor does it sate the thirst of more financially able GMs.
The book sizes on the boxed sets are almost certainly because they wanted to keep the already-high prices from getting higher.
The split books are presumably because the boxed-set approach didn't work for them. (Sales-wise, development-wise, or both.) Two stand-alone books are simpler to produce, so you get more pages for the money.
It's also more expensive iff you want to buy both of them. It allows groups to split up their purchases, which the boxed sets didn't.
The book sizes on the boxed sets are almost certainly because they wanted to keep the already-high prices from getting higher.
The split books are presumably because the boxed-set approach didn't work for them. (Sales-wise, development-wise, or both.) Two stand-alone books are simpler to produce, so you get more pages for the money.
It's also more expensive iff you want to buy both of them. It allows groups to split up their purchases, which the boxed sets didn't.
I wished they simply charged higher so we can get more stuff. GMs like me do not mind paying more if we get a good amount of content; we practically finance each of our own group's hobby by ourselves already, so price really is not an issue. There is absolutely no good reason for Wizards to try to save us money, we literally want them to take our money.
And for GMs who are more budget constrained, they are not going buy S:AIS and P:AITM at that price with how little content they have. S:AIS has an MSRP of $69.99 for only 192 pages, and P:AITM has an MSRP of $84.99 for only 256 pages. VRGTR has a similar premise to S:AIS and P:AITM where you can visit multiple places, and VRGTR not only surpasses S:AIS and matches P:AITM in page count, it has an MSRP of $49.95; and if we ignore MSRP, VRGTR is like half the price of the box sets on Amazon and Ebay from individual sellers. Those two box sets have a horrible value for money. It does not matter if the books are standalone or in a box set if the value proposition is not there to begin with. They are not going to spend money on a book that is 96 pages long if they can get a similar book with twice the number of pages for the same price.
The core rules and expanded rules have box sets, and those presumeably do well, or at least I do not hear people complain about the lack of content. And for other types of box sets, there are the small starter type box sets, COS adventure box set, and D:SOTDQ box set. Wizards knows how to make box sets work, and have them appeal to various customers at various price points.
I do not really care whether they split the content into stand alone books or into a box set, but what I do care about is the amount of content in each book. My worry is that while the stand alone books might not be in a box, they kind of act like a box because they are developed and released at the same time. If they release two books that are 96 pages each, I would be pretty disappointed. If they release two books that are 192 pages each, the page count will be on the low end for regular D&D books, but at least I would be somewhat satisfied.
[REDACTED] At this time all we actually know is that the books are coming out latter this year and are supposed to be player faced for one and dm faced for the other. EVERYTHING. else is personal projection of hopes and fears. So let’s all ease off. What we are all hoping for are two full books at a reasonable price ($29-35 each). The first full of subclasses and feats and “Everyman” background lore. The second full of updates for the FR timeline for major locations/regions, an adventure ( for me hopeful not in the sword coast) and detailed lore about all the regions across Faerun east to west and north to south so that DM s can use it to place their own adventures in non sword coast areas. Personally I wish ( but don’t expect) an improved ranger class and subclasses in the player book as well as a couple of Harper, Zhent and cormyrian subclasses. And a bunch of NPC neutrals and BBEGs for different regions in the DM book. Like others I’m scared that the books will be small totaling a single book, overpriced and not as full of the stuff I want. We will all have to wait and see what we get but need to keep in mind that right now we are all talking about our hopes and fears based on recent and older books and not get upset about others who are more hopeful or fearful than we are.
One question I have for the forgotten realm's supplements and future 2024 supplements is will they update the character builder tool with a new checkbox for 2024 expanded rules or will they just put it in the usual expanded rules checkbox, this question also applies to any 2024 adventures.
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The general exploration of the Realms, which I expect will be more then just a page or two per region, but rather per nation or more, will actually be in the FR Player's Guide, not the DM book, because Player's, especially new players will need that to build their characters and anchor them to the world, because that is the kind of stuff their characters would know. The deep dives in the 5 regions are likely in the DM book instead partly because they will have DM secrets Player's shouldn't know about the region, but also so they can use the region to illustrate how to do settings with a particular theme to them.
Splitting the books into separate player and GM books is a much welcomed improvement. I am still worried with what they consider to be full books though, and I do not want a repeat of S:AIS and P:AITM.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
I'm mostly just concerned that the player's book will present a lot of the 2014 archetypes, etc. updated to 2024 rules, rather than anything new or interesting.
i would have prefered them to do this with Greyhawk instead of Forgotten Realms. we got tons of crap for FR but not much for Greyhawk, give some of the other realms love for once
I am going the optimistic route and hoping they hit this one out of the park! A limited edition slip case set with some big fold out maps would be amazing!
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
for Flamepulse and others that don't care that much (or at all) for the Forgotten realms - think of it from a business perspective. Roughly 25% of the table base uses some sort of Forgotten realms clone, 25% is all the other published realms combined and 50% is individual homebrew worlds. if you're going to put out sourcebooks for a new version, where do you start? with the biggest fraction of your base possible. the player book should sell to not only the entire DM base but to at least the FR player base and to some portion of everyone else. biggest bang for their buck. the DM's guide isn't going to sell as well but you can't really not put it out so if one is large and one smaller, I expect the players book to be truly full size while the DM book may be smaller. Once they see how sales go for the 3 new core books and the FR books, they should have a better idea of where to go next.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I do love that they breaking apart the Player and DM goodies into 2 books. My FEAR is that they are going to "Lore Dump" and nothing else in the DM guide, sales will be trash, and they will return to one book for everyone for the future.
IMO, including new stat blocks throughout the book would go a LONG way to keeping DM interest up and sales strong, but so far... I've read nothing about that inclusion. This would be a perfect opportunity to give us a handful of stat blocks for additional generic pirates or such, assorted different Red Wizards, and for notable NPCs in the Realms from specific dragons (like Arveiaturace and Themberchaud) to the characters from Baldur's Gate 3. Even if most of these are just tweaks on the MM versions, they are SO helpful and would give DM's another reason to spend the money on an additional book. Same is true for magic items.
SCAG 2:SCAG Harder.
I'd not expect Kara-Tur, Wa or any other Asia analogues for a long while. They're(wisely) being avoided for multiple reasons.
I just want fixed/buffed Purple Dragon Knight, Crown Paladin, & other SCAG-exclusive subclasses. Some new ones would be nice, but not repeating the mistakes of SCAG is crucial to a more positive result this time.
(Cheerleader Knight buff truly is what I want most:Go Purple Dragons!)
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
As opposed to stuffing it into one book, charging more, and having to buy it when you will only use half.
Except they'll charge more for the two smaller books - as proven by when they've done this in the past.
I'll have to wait and see. It'll be more expensive to split it for those who'd be looking to get all of the content (I'm one of them), but I've been arguing for split books for a while. I don't think it's right to hide player options in an adventure book. Setting books are a bit different I guess - although I have to admit, their attempts to do that have been less than stellar.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It’s more expensive to make two smaller books. You have to bind and cover 2 books instead of one. Pay artists for 2 cover portraits. Box and ship twice as many, etc. So, yes, I’d expect to pay more for two smaller books than one large one.
I rather pay more for two books too. It makes finding information a bit easier. I am just worried that if they split the book, they will put very little content in each book. The book sizes in S:AIS and P:AITM are very disappointing, and I rather they charged a higher price if it meant there was more meat in them. At least for me, price is not the issue. Even if Wizards is trying to reach a broader GM audience with a more friendly price in exchange for less content, the amount of content for the price they charged does not even seem worth it. It does not offer good value for budget conscious GMs, nor does it sate the thirst of more financially able GMs.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
[REDACTED]
And well have to see what the books cost. If they charge the same 29.99 (digital) for both smaller books that is a problem. But split books IS a increase in cost overhead, so yes it isn't going to just be half if they do a lower price.
Who said anything about getting mad? [REDACTED]
They charge $50 for an overall smaller digital book, just split into three. Similar ratios for the physical.
How about, rather than trying to find loopholes in order to make things more profitable for WotC to the detriment of consumers, we propose what the request was:
Two separate books, each full size. One is directed towards the DM - a setting guide, a bestiary, and an adventure, or some combination. Another book, aimed at players, with character options, any mechanics specific to the setting, lore about the setting that players would use, and so forth. If that's not enough to fill a book, they could include multiple settings. They then, get this, charge a full book price for a full book of content. So they sell you two books, and you can get two books worth of content, rather than charging you for two books and giving you less content than one.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The book sizes on the boxed sets are almost certainly because they wanted to keep the already-high prices from getting higher.
The split books are presumably because the boxed-set approach didn't work for them. (Sales-wise, development-wise, or both.) Two stand-alone books are simpler to produce, so you get more pages for the money.
It's also more expensive iff you want to buy both of them. It allows groups to split up their purchases, which the boxed sets didn't.
I wished they simply charged higher so we can get more stuff. GMs like me do not mind paying more if we get a good amount of content; we practically finance each of our own group's hobby by ourselves already, so price really is not an issue. There is absolutely no good reason for Wizards to try to save us money, we literally want them to take our money.
And for GMs who are more budget constrained, they are not going buy S:AIS and P:AITM at that price with how little content they have. S:AIS has an MSRP of $69.99 for only 192 pages, and P:AITM has an MSRP of $84.99 for only 256 pages. VRGTR has a similar premise to S:AIS and P:AITM where you can visit multiple places, and VRGTR not only surpasses S:AIS and matches P:AITM in page count, it has an MSRP of $49.95; and if we ignore MSRP, VRGTR is like half the price of the box sets on Amazon and Ebay from individual sellers. Those two box sets have a horrible value for money. It does not matter if the books are standalone or in a box set if the value proposition is not there to begin with. They are not going to spend money on a book that is 96 pages long if they can get a similar book with twice the number of pages for the same price.
The core rules and expanded rules have box sets, and those presumeably do well, or at least I do not hear people complain about the lack of content. And for other types of box sets, there are the small starter type box sets, COS adventure box set, and D:SOTDQ box set. Wizards knows how to make box sets work, and have them appeal to various customers at various price points.
I do not really care whether they split the content into stand alone books or into a box set, but what I do care about is the amount of content in each book. My worry is that while the stand alone books might not be in a box, they kind of act like a box because they are developed and released at the same time. If they release two books that are 96 pages each, I would be pretty disappointed. If they release two books that are 192 pages each, the page count will be on the low end for regular D&D books, but at least I would be somewhat satisfied.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
[REDACTED] At this time all we actually know is that the books are coming out latter this year and are supposed to be player faced for one and dm faced for the other. EVERYTHING. else is personal projection of hopes and fears. So let’s all ease off. What we are all hoping for are two full books at a reasonable price ($29-35 each). The first full of subclasses and feats and “Everyman” background lore. The second full of updates for the FR timeline for major locations/regions, an adventure ( for me hopeful not in the sword coast) and detailed lore about all the regions across Faerun east to west and north to south so that DM s can use it to place their own adventures in non sword coast areas. Personally I wish ( but don’t expect) an improved ranger class and subclasses in the player book as well as a couple of Harper, Zhent and cormyrian subclasses. And a bunch of NPC neutrals and BBEGs for different regions in the DM book. Like others I’m scared that the books will be small totaling a single book, overpriced and not as full of the stuff I want. We will all have to wait and see what we get but need to keep in mind that right now we are all talking about our hopes and fears based on recent and older books and not get upset about others who are more hopeful or fearful than we are.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
One question I have for the forgotten realm's supplements and future 2024 supplements is will they update the character builder tool with a new checkbox for 2024 expanded rules or will they just put it in the usual expanded rules checkbox, this question also applies to any 2024 adventures.