Here’s an example of some exemplary game design. The designers hated the fact that after choosing class skills, if a background skill duplicated one of those skills the player got to choose a new skill without having to go through the arduous process of creating a custom background. No more! Now players choose their class, then abilities and background, then back to class, because that’s so much simpler and why would you want players choosing a skill that they thought fit their character better? This kind of choice and fun needed to be snuffed out! WotC 2024 to the rescue!
Hold That Thought
You’ll fill in more details about your class later. Choosing your class is the most important decision you make in creating a character, and it informs many of the decisions you make in later steps. You’ll return to your class’s description in chapter 3 several more times before you’re done.
I had noticed the order change on ddb which was unexpected but made more sense.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
So, you can't plan ahead and pick the same skill twice in order to get a choice you can't normally get with your selections? I mean, I've always assumed that's what you should be doing, if you get to the background skill selection and there aren't any left due to your class skill selections, then you go back and change your class selections...that way you don't cheat.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
So, you can't plan ahead and pick the same skill twice in order to get a choice you can't normally get with your selections? I mean, I've always assumed that's what you should be doing, if you get to the background skill selection and there aren't any left due to your class skill selections, then you go back and change your class selections...that way you don't cheat.
The PHB is not only designed for experienced players - and this PHB went out of its way to make itself more useful to new players. Even if we accept your premise that players “should be” planning ahead, new players do not know what it is you should be planning ahead for. Wizards used this language not to preclude planning ahead - you can still choose your skills during class selection if you want - but to signal to new players “wait! Don’t do this now as later decisions might influence this choice, so it will be easier if you do this later.” That is a very useful piece of advice for new players.
As for dismissively saying players could just go change things? That is very easy to do in digital character sheets, but is a nightmare in pen and paper - that means white out or ugly, text-obscuring eraser smears. It makes far more sense to put a small reminder in the book to help players avoid making an avoidable error on their sheet than it does to just shrug and say “eh, don’t warn them; they can always fix it.”
This was a clever change and one of those “wow, that’s so obvious, I wonder why they didn’t think of this earlier” moments which really helps make the 2024 PHB much more user friendly to experienced and new players alike.
I couldn’t disagree more. All this does is convolute the character creation process so that they can force you to play the way they want you to by limiting your choices. All they needed to say is: if a background skill duplicates one of your class skills pick another skill that fits your character.
Here’s another example of this asinine philosophy: Now if I want to take Toughness as a starting feat I have to be a Farmer with Animal Handling, Nature and Carpenter’s Tools. That’s literally the only way to get it. WTF? This is a bad joke.
I couldn’t disagree more. All this does is convolute the character creation process so that they can force you to play the way they want you to by limiting your choices. All they needed to say is: if a background skill duplicates one of your class skills pick another skill that fits your character.
Here’s another example of this asinine philosophy: Now if I want to take Toughness as a starting feat I have to be a Farmer with Animal Handling, Nature and Carpenter’s Tools. That’s literally the only way to get it. WTF? This is a bad joke.
1. No one is limiting your choices with this language; this is just a common sense notification that future choices might be relevant to this choice, so perhaps don’t write anything in pen yet. You are still welcome to pick your class-based skills at any point you want - there is not some D&D police out there saying “you are required to follow the directive of this new player tip.”
2. The DMG will have rules for custom backgrounds, so, in a couple months, this point will be moot.
I’ll be honest, this change is so obviously for the better - and has no actual drawbacks - that I just assumed your first post was excitable rather than sarcastic. It did not even occur to me that someone could be upset over such a non-issue as to post a completely, to use your word, asinine attack of it.
The backgrounds were the first thing the groups I play with homebrewed. We go with choose two skills, 1 tool, 2 stats (or 3), one feat, and 50 starting gold.
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She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
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Here’s an example of some exemplary game design. The designers hated the fact that after choosing class skills, if a background skill duplicated one of those skills the player got to choose a new skill without having to go through the arduous process of creating a custom background. No more! Now players choose their class, then abilities and background, then back to class, because that’s so much simpler and why would you want players choosing a skill that they thought fit their character better? This kind of choice and fun needed to be snuffed out! WotC 2024 to the rescue!
Hold That Thought
You’ll fill in more details about your class later. Choosing your class is the most important decision you make in creating a character, and it informs many of the decisions you make in later steps. You’ll return to your class’s description in chapter 3 several more times before you’re done.
I had noticed the order change on ddb which was unexpected but made more sense.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
So, you can't plan ahead and pick the same skill twice in order to get a choice you can't normally get with your selections? I mean, I've always assumed that's what you should be doing, if you get to the background skill selection and there aren't any left due to your class skill selections, then you go back and change your class selections...that way you don't cheat.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The PHB is not only designed for experienced players - and this PHB went out of its way to make itself more useful to new players. Even if we accept your premise that players “should be” planning ahead, new players do not know what it is you should be planning ahead for. Wizards used this language not to preclude planning ahead - you can still choose your skills during class selection if you want - but to signal to new players “wait! Don’t do this now as later decisions might influence this choice, so it will be easier if you do this later.” That is a very useful piece of advice for new players.
As for dismissively saying players could just go change things? That is very easy to do in digital character sheets, but is a nightmare in pen and paper - that means white out or ugly, text-obscuring eraser smears. It makes far more sense to put a small reminder in the book to help players avoid making an avoidable error on their sheet than it does to just shrug and say “eh, don’t warn them; they can always fix it.”
This was a clever change and one of those “wow, that’s so obvious, I wonder why they didn’t think of this earlier” moments which really helps make the 2024 PHB much more user friendly to experienced and new players alike.
I couldn’t disagree more. All this does is convolute the character creation process so that they can force you to play the way they want you to by limiting your choices. All they needed to say is: if a background skill duplicates one of your class skills pick another skill that fits your character.
Here’s another example of this asinine philosophy: Now if I want to take Toughness as a starting feat I have to be a Farmer with Animal Handling, Nature and Carpenter’s Tools. That’s literally the only way to get it. WTF? This is a bad joke.
1. No one is limiting your choices with this language; this is just a common sense notification that future choices might be relevant to this choice, so perhaps don’t write anything in pen yet. You are still welcome to pick your class-based skills at any point you want - there is not some D&D police out there saying “you are required to follow the directive of this new player tip.”
2. The DMG will have rules for custom backgrounds, so, in a couple months, this point will be moot.
I’ll be honest, this change is so obviously for the better - and has no actual drawbacks - that I just assumed your first post was excitable rather than sarcastic. It did not even occur to me that someone could be upset over such a non-issue as to post a completely, to use your word, asinine attack of it.
Other ways to obtain background feats:
- Play as a Human
- Take a pre-2024 feat that doesn’t have an assigned feat and select the one you want
- Play as Warlock and choose the Lessons of the First Ones invocation
- Discuss with your DM whether they allow customisation
- Take a background feat instead of a general feat at level 4+.
The backgrounds were the first thing the groups I play with homebrewed. We go with choose two skills, 1 tool, 2 stats (or 3), one feat, and 50 starting gold.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master