“You didn’t start this conversation.”

The conversation we are having now is different than the one started by the OP. I suppose you are right though. I merely posited an opinion and a question. It was YOU that turned it into a conversation. YOU are also prolonging it by trying to justify disagreeing with that opinion rather than letting it go. I am not forcing YOU to respond. Your desire to be ‘right’ is doing that. Don’t blame me for your inability to defend your criticism of my opinion.

It’s just as cinematic to exclude those unnecessary rules as it is to use them. All it takes is a little imagination and creativity, and it does take less imagination for something more realistic. A beginner jogger can jog for 10 minutes at time alternating between jogging and walking for 5-10 turns each phase. An average jogger can do this for 30 minutes with a speed of 45 ft/turn: which is basically alternating not Dashing and Dashing for 5-10 turns Then there’s running and sprinting which could be related to Dashing every turn and Dashing twice per turn respectively. Lastly, Warriors of the Open Hand Monks can Dash three times a turn. Taking all that into account, basic rules without Chase rules is closer to reality with a third ruleset between those two being about a little more complicated and far more realistic than Chase rules:

[[[You can Dash in as many consecutive turns as 1 + your CON modifier with a minimum of 1, then you cannot Dash for the same number of turns without a CON check. Failing this CON check increases your Temporary Exhaustion Level by 1. Temporary Exhaustion levels are removed after a Short Rest. Your initial Temporary Exhaustion Level is the same as your Exhaustion Level.

For example, beginning a Chase with one Level of Exhaustion means you start at one Level of Temporary Exhaustion. A player with a +1 CON can Dash two consecutive turns before being unable to Dash again for two turns without a CON check.]]]

Such a rule set could be easily tracked with a d6 by using it to count up to 1+CON mod (or less), then counting back down to 0.

The ‘realism’ I am describing does not need Homebrewing. It is based on already existing rules which makes these Chase mechanics the unnecessary complication. It’s literally more straightforward to employ FEWER rules than MORE rules. The only ‘homebrewing’ required is to ignore extraneous and unnecessary rules. That’s literally LESS complicated.

As for DEX modifiers to defense: Chase mechanics don’t even address that.

”During combat, a "dash" of 60ft, is very different from running flat out for 6 seconds.” Running flat out is running flat out whether it’s during battle or a ‘chase.’ If you can do it during battle (a far riskier proposition), you most certainly can do it during a chase. You also have the same issue during combat if you’re paying attention to one out of multiple enemies. What you’re suggesting about DEX modifiers would actually require MORE rules and complexity to determine awareness. I’m lost on whether you’re arguing for less or more complexity at this point because you’re all over the place with your arguments. My position is fundamentally LESS complicated than yours, and you’re suggesting MORE complexity to counter my comments. Pick a lane.

Lastly, don’t accuse others of “bullying” when you are engaging in the exact same tone. I merely matched the tone that was established by your responses. If you took offense at my opinion about established game mechanics, that’s your fault for projecting in an attempt to disregard an opinion that wasn’t even directed at you in the first place. I said the Chase rules were ‘hot garbage.’ I don’t say anybody was hot garbage either for contriving those rules or following them. Take responsibility for your own emotions rather than trying to shut someone up for having an opposing opinion.

Thank you for understanding the realities of walking (Movement), jogging (Dash half the time), running (Dash every turn), and sprinting (Dash twice every turn).

“It is a down side to sometimes overly simplified rules.”

That was part of my point. The actual oversimplified rules would be without Chase Mechanics, and those rules are more realistic than the added complexity of those Chase mechanics. I wouldn’t have a problem with more accurate reality depicting rules for Chases like Dashing a consecutive number of turns equal to CON modifier + Athletics Proficiency (or 2 x  for Expertise) with a minimum of 1 Dash every other turn, and not Dashing the same number of turns equal to the number of turns Dashed without the CON check tied to Athletics. So a level 5 player with Proficiency in Athletics (+3) and CON modifier of +1 would be able to Dash up to 4 consecutive turns and not Dash for the same number of turns before having to do an Athletics check for each turn Dashing over the limit. The alternating Dash and not Dash would more realistically simulate ‘jogging’ while Dashing every turn would simulate ‘running’. For players that can Dash 2 times a turn, the limit would be half and the Athletics check would be with a disadvantage which would simulate ‘sprinting.” This would also be a situation where encumbrance could play a factor IF the DM wishes to make it more complicated and realistic.

”A lot of it is play balance though.”

I would agree that that was the intention, but there are enough rules outside of Chase mechanics to accomplish that. Any ability a PC has, an NPC could also have, and an NPC who is constantly in situations where they are being chased would most likely have skills and contingencies to reflect that. A PC could be part of a gang that all wear similar clothing so that the Perception check would be made at a Disadvantage if multiple characters are wearing the same hood forcing the pursuers to guess which one to continue chasing or split up and chase multiple characters. Hide-aways can be strategically placed in their area of operations. Known terrain features like rotten wood flooring, easily accessible roofs, alleyways, or buildings could change the outcome of a Chase even if the pursued does not have skills and abilities to match their pursuers.

In short, the Chase mechanics should only have ever been presented as a list of OPTIONS that can be utilized ad hoc rather than a point of contention for RAW arguments. I don’t know why that opinion is so contentious for some people.

I was saying that between the two, RAW without the Chase mechanics would be the ‘oversimplified’ and RAW with the Chase mechanics is actually more complex than that. I was merely using the term you used which is why I quoted you before using it myself.

I was basing it off a Google AI response to a question about average jogging speed in ft/s and how long that pace is kept on average. It said that beginners can jog about 30-60 seconds and walk 30-60 for about 10 minutes at an average rate of 45 ft/s. It also said that more experienced joggers can achieve rates around 60 ft/s for 30 minutes.

I’m sure different terms are used to describe the same concepts so ‘a scout’s pace’ was probably synonymous to ‘jogging’ in Google AI’s algorithm. I think the salient point being the different rates of travel and how long that rate can be sustained. The particular terms used would be subjective and practically irrelevant as long as the concepts are understood. I have no problem referring to it as ‘a scout’s pace’ with you, but ‘jogging’ is a more general term that more people would be familiar with.

“It is a down side to sometimes overly simplified rules. Other than maybe Tabaxi, there is no real middle run speed. ” - you

I merely followed suit from you saying “overly simplified.” I don’t understand what makes your use valid and mine invalid.

I don’t know about you, but if I went “jogging,” that would include the times I spent moving at a faster rate and at a slower rate merely because it’s easier than saying “jogging and walking.” I think most people would understand that. That’s all I was saying. Would you like me to start using ‘the Galloway method of running’ or ‘run-walk-run’ instead of ‘jogging’? That’s just adding unnecessary tedium to a discussion where the concept is far more important than the particular terms used. Or we could follow suit with D&D and call it ‘half-Dashing’? Then I could put ‘jogging’ in parentheses for anyone who uses that term more generally than your book definition. 😀 

Quote from Sillvva >>

As I stated, before: Please keep replies focused on rules clarification, RAI, and concrete examples. Whether you like the rules or not, or whether you think they break realism or not is irrelevant to the discussion. If you wish to discuss those things, start a new thread. I will start deleting comments that do not follow this guidance.

 I’m fine with this as long as everybody who responds to those comments effectively contributing to the irrelevance ALSO get warning points as I did. What’s good for the goose, and all that. 😃 

Also, which forum would I post “Chase Rules are hot garbage”? I looked around a little, but I wasn’t sure where I should go.

Thanks 😊