There is TOO much art in the books that serves no practical, game-affecting purpose, & it affects the quality of books be eating up space that I feel would be served better. by more practical options
I'd like to open up the floor to discussing whether art bloat is hurting the game-applicable content of 5e books, and how this ties into over-dependence on art to sell TTRPG books, as well as printing & design ethos from Hasbro in general.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Seems the overall mood I've seen is players like the new art.
And it is going to be a lot more of a specific game enhancer in the new Monster Manuel. Where DMs can look at scenes specifically designed for inspiration and to fit where they are found and what they'd do rather than the old static images.
If you've looked at the new monster manual the pinata colored sphinxes are going to be a hit. The players have never seen it, won't believe its a sphinx and its going to require a ton of roleplaying to get the concept that yes, that's actually a sphinx now. With the new color pallet for the MM I can save on money and use rainbow PLA and save a lot of time on painting.
I used to be of the opinion that art was mostly a waste of space better suited for other things like Statblocks, subclasses etc. I've changed my mind.
Art is aesthetically pleasing, but it also helps with the game itself. If I decided to have a Manes in encounter, I'd really struggle to even understand what it is. Having an image like this really helps me imagine what's happening and so make the game more engaging:
Particularly with the D&D setup, it's very difficult to understand and play a monster on text alone. Even with Classes and Subclasses, pictures can help you understand the thought process behind the archetypes being portrayed.
That said, pictures can't replace vital information on how to roleplay. They're a supplement, not a replacement. I'm dubious about the need for pictures for all the magic items, though I haven't spent the time necessary to know if it's really a problem, but I think many could have just been skipped and had more space dedicated to more directly useful stuff.
I'll have to see how the Monster Manual is set out to judge the new setup when it comes out next week as to whether I'm happy with the change for monsters.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The art is half the reason I buy the books, as Linklite said I find it much more inspiring then just dry stat block with a name I can’t pronounce. Show me what the monsters, the classes, even the NPCs look like and I’ll have far more ideas then I ever would just reading their HP and AC
Have to Disagree. The art has inspired people to make characters, add flavor and help newcomers to get a mental image of what is going on.
Had a player start a campaign thinking elves were short little keebler elves who lived in a tree, only to get him to understand it the quickest by showing him a picture of an Eladrin wizard. He said "Oh, they are like Vulcans with whimsy." and this was after i explained the lore, details etc. Some people interface better with art.
I do agree that there should be a more cut down version that is available with less art, maybe for cheaper, but i also think the art plays a vital role. I know lots of people who would buy just books of art.
ALSO, i think human artists who make wonderful images that spark our imaginations, deserve appreciation and good pay.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
I love the art, I feel like it adds a ton of background to the books, such as pictures of different monsters and classes in different environments, just giving a ton more ideas for creating your own characters and creatures. Art in the spell sections is cool too, because it shows some of the designer's ideas on how the spells look being cast, and it inspires creativity in players, too.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pokemon Master, Hero of Hyrule, Jedi Knight, Minecrafter, Celestial Being Beyond Comprehension, Bounty Hunter, Salmon Runner, Nailmaster, Yarn Yoshi Enjoyer, Animal Lover, Math Rock Roller, Nerd King in all Aspects.
(And, of course, Dragon Tamer. It is in the name, after all)
by in large I'm for the artwork - it helps both me and my players visualize what they are facing if its monsters, get a feel for a race or class as PCs and recognize recuring NPCs. the one place I have problems with the artwork is with magic items. My problem is that if the magic items actually looked like the artwork they would be super easy to ID. and you wouldn't really need a detect magic or an identify spell to know what they are and what they can do. Unique items yes a picture is wonderful (The Blackstaff for instance) but why would a frostbrand long sword have to look different from any other longsword? Or a ring of invisibility look different from some nonmagical ring? monsters, classes, species, artifacts and legendary items sure - standard magic items not so much.
I am not a fan of art nor lore in the core books. The physical MM book is not a good tool in my opinion, as it is unwieldy and takes up too much real estate on the table. I am also getting old, and I do not want to lug around textbooks like a student. I am okay with a bit of art for illustrative purposes for some statblocks, but having a full page of just art is excessive (unless they can fit at least a dozen monsters into it or something), and I do not think each and every statblock needs artwork either.
Ideally, a good solution would be to reintroduce monster cards. People who like to read and look at art in the book can do so as usual, while GMs will finally get a practical tool they can use while running the game, and GMs do not have to break their backs nor eat up valuable table space while doing so.
Seems the overall mood I've seen is players like the new art.
And it is going to be a lot more of a specific game enhancer in the new Monster Manuel. Where DMs can look at scenes specifically designed for inspiration and to fit where they are found and what they'd do rather than the old static images.
Honestly It's not even if I do or don't, it's just an objectively flawed argument.
If the books were 320 pages like their previous iterations and all we heard was about all this amazing art? Then the OP would have a point. So far, we're gotten the same amount of content in the like for like releases with more art as well. So we're basically getting more content because having an official visual for what something looks like is a fantastic reference point.
Everyone is different, some people I know just don't see beauty in the world, they don't understand the appeal of fashion, the aesthetics of architecture or the skill of painted art or the beauty of cars or anything. They don't even enjoy movies. They are just wired differently to be uninterested in anything like that. They want the cold hard facts and cash.
Personally, art is everything to set the scene and thrill your players and i would imagine that is the case for 90% of DMs.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
In my opinion:
There is TOO much art in the books that serves no practical, game-affecting purpose, & it affects the quality of books be eating up space that I feel would be served better. by more practical options
I'd like to open up the floor to discussing whether art bloat is hurting the game-applicable content of 5e books, and how this ties into over-dependence on art to sell TTRPG books, as well as printing & design ethos from Hasbro in general.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Personally I like the art, it helps with the mood of play for me.
TO DEFEND: THIS IS THE PACT.
BUT WHEN LIFE LOSES ITS VALUE,
AND IS TAKEN FOR NAUGHT-
THEN THE PACT IS, TO AVENGE.
There isn't winning this argument.
The new DMG and PHB were 384 pages. The 2014 PHB was 320 pages while the 2014 DMG was also 320.
So we got 64 pages of additional art in addition to the 320 pages of content which had art in it.
If we were talking spelljammer styled releases I'd totally agree but we aren't.
Seems the overall mood I've seen is players like the new art.
And it is going to be a lot more of a specific game enhancer in the new Monster Manuel. Where DMs can look at scenes specifically designed for inspiration and to fit where they are found and what they'd do rather than the old static images.
If you've looked at the new monster manual the pinata colored sphinxes are going to be a hit. The players have never seen it, won't believe its a sphinx and its going to require a ton of roleplaying to get the concept that yes, that's actually a sphinx now. With the new color pallet for the MM I can save on money and use rainbow PLA and save a lot of time on painting.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQi_lYBWk7H4El8dT5CzH3WddAvdWH-3aAHBg&s
I used to be of the opinion that art was mostly a waste of space better suited for other things like Statblocks, subclasses etc. I've changed my mind.
Art is aesthetically pleasing, but it also helps with the game itself. If I decided to have a Manes in encounter, I'd really struggle to even understand what it is. Having an image like this really helps me imagine what's happening and so make the game more engaging:
Particularly with the D&D setup, it's very difficult to understand and play a monster on text alone. Even with Classes and Subclasses, pictures can help you understand the thought process behind the archetypes being portrayed.
That said, pictures can't replace vital information on how to roleplay. They're a supplement, not a replacement. I'm dubious about the need for pictures for all the magic items, though I haven't spent the time necessary to know if it's really a problem, but I think many could have just been skipped and had more space dedicated to more directly useful stuff.
I'll have to see how the Monster Manual is set out to judge the new setup when it comes out next week as to whether I'm happy with the change for monsters.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The art is half the reason I buy the books, as Linklite said I find it much more inspiring then just dry stat block with a name I can’t pronounce. Show me what the monsters, the classes, even the NPCs look like and I’ll have far more ideas then I ever would just reading their HP and AC
Artwork is something i like abundantly so i really enjoy it myself!
Have to Disagree. The art has inspired people to make characters, add flavor and help newcomers to get a mental image of what is going on.
Had a player start a campaign thinking elves were short little keebler elves who lived in a tree, only to get him to understand it the quickest by showing him a picture of an Eladrin wizard. He said "Oh, they are like Vulcans with whimsy." and this was after i explained the lore, details etc. Some people interface better with art.
I do agree that there should be a more cut down version that is available with less art, maybe for cheaper, but i also think the art plays a vital role. I know lots of people who would buy just books of art.
ALSO, i think human artists who make wonderful images that spark our imaginations, deserve appreciation and good pay.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
I love the art, I feel like it adds a ton of background to the books, such as pictures of different monsters and classes in different environments, just giving a ton more ideas for creating your own characters and creatures. Art in the spell sections is cool too, because it shows some of the designer's ideas on how the spells look being cast, and it inspires creativity in players, too.
Pokemon Master, Hero of Hyrule, Jedi Knight, Minecrafter, Celestial Being Beyond Comprehension, Bounty Hunter, Salmon Runner, Nailmaster, Yarn Yoshi Enjoyer, Animal Lover, Math Rock Roller, Nerd King in all Aspects.
(And, of course, Dragon Tamer. It is in the name, after all)
HE'S BACK... AND WEIRDER THAN EVER!
I’ve long believed that books that are nothing but fantasy art and legends would be big sellers if they could be made cost effectively.
Art in these rulebooks is a big win in my opinion.
I started playing D&D in the 80's with the Basic Red Box filled with Larry Elmore i found even black & white artwork was inspiring!
One of the coolest things about Dark Sun was the illustrated pop up thing that came with the first adventure.
Oh my, that brings back childhood memories... 😭
PS. I love art in books!
by in large I'm for the artwork - it helps both me and my players visualize what they are facing if its monsters, get a feel for a race or class as PCs and recognize recuring NPCs. the one place I have problems with the artwork is with magic items. My problem is that if the magic items actually looked like the artwork they would be super easy to ID. and you wouldn't really need a detect magic or an identify spell to know what they are and what they can do. Unique items yes a picture is wonderful (The Blackstaff for instance) but why would a frostbrand long sword have to look different from any other longsword? Or a ring of invisibility look different from some nonmagical ring? monsters, classes, species, artifacts and legendary items sure - standard magic items not so much.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I am not a fan of art nor lore in the core books. The physical MM book is not a good tool in my opinion, as it is unwieldy and takes up too much real estate on the table. I am also getting old, and I do not want to lug around textbooks like a student. I am okay with a bit of art for illustrative purposes for some statblocks, but having a full page of just art is excessive (unless they can fit at least a dozen monsters into it or something), and I do not think each and every statblock needs artwork either.
Ideally, a good solution would be to reintroduce monster cards. People who like to read and look at art in the book can do so as usual, while GMs will finally get a practical tool they can use while running the game, and GMs do not have to break their backs nor eat up valuable table space while doing so.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Honestly It's not even if I do or don't, it's just an objectively flawed argument.
If the books were 320 pages like their previous iterations and all we heard was about all this amazing art? Then the OP would have a point. So far, we're gotten the same amount of content in the like for like releases with more art as well. So we're basically getting more content because having an official visual for what something looks like is a fantastic reference point.
Everyone is different, some people I know just don't see beauty in the world, they don't understand the appeal of fashion, the aesthetics of architecture or the skill of painted art or the beauty of cars or anything. They don't even enjoy movies. They are just wired differently to be uninterested in anything like that. They want the cold hard facts and cash.
Personally, art is everything to set the scene and thrill your players and i would imagine that is the case for 90% of DMs.