Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Yeah but I don't think they want to put money into fixing things. They want to put money into things that will make money. So I'm not sure fixing things would be the incentive for reallocating that money to where you/we would prefer. Thus the point may very well be moot.
Dubious, as in untrustworthy, shady, AND deceitful(To shareholders & customers)
All the flavor removal & mechanical clarifications, to me, feel like they're 99.99999% so that they'd be easier on the team to transfer to Sigil compared to 2024. It's so patently obvious. A lot of these changes are designed to make spells uniform so they can be easier to translate to code FOR THE TEAM. Not for Larian, not for end-users, for the people who are/were working on it who are coders. The uniformity, flat language, lack of MM stat block summons, removal of "fun" effects by way of clarification, and cutdown of ambiguity screams "make it easier for the people who are going to make the REAL money for us, WotC"
I'm out again.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I recall hearing that most of the 3e changes were to make AD&D easier to code.
But then, how dare they make the game better and easier to play!
It's none of those things.
I can only conclude that you don't know anything about software (this is a common feature of people complaining about any edition of D&D being designed for computers; there are a ton of super annoying things in D&D for a computer. Look at video games that have actually tried to implement the rules and how much stuff they didn't implement). Looking at your points
Ever since 2024 came out, I can't help but draw parallels and see connections between TSR vs. WotC during the 2nd edition AD&D era and D&D in the 2024.
For starters, in both cases, I personally thought the game was vastly improved by the new books, in TSR era it was an update to AD&D which was much more streamlined and easier to use same as the 2024 version of 5th edition. In the early 90's the internet and online discussions weren't really a thing yet, but the impression I got was that this was universally true of the general fandom, meaning It seemed like and I assumed the community was adopting the game.
Both companies during their respective era's were trying to expand the franchises in a number of ways outside of the tabletop sphere presumed to be golden opportunities that would end up not panning out and again here, in both era's I found myself thinking... Yeah, that's really smart but it would turn out not to be at all.
Both eras were filled with politics that influenced the design of the game, politics that were generally driven by outsiders that had no interest in D&D or its success, just to enforce their political views and in both cases the companies folded and succumbed to the pressure and in both cases it's been terrible for the game.
Both eras had rather shocking controversies surrounding the company and its people, all of which ultimately affected how people viewed the game. Greed was driving all of the terrible decisions that would create a foundation of suspicion that would ultimately label the company as an "evil corporation".
In both eras, the company insisted that D&D was the most popular game in the world and that the edition of the game was selling like crazy, while their stocks tanked and financials didn't support anything they were saying.
I know that these parallels and connections are quite "loose", so I'm not looking to debate, I concede here and now that there are clearly many differences and exceptions. My point is less about that and more about the fact that the reality is that whatever is going to happen, we as a community are not going to know much no matter how much speculation or "side-taking" anyone does. We are not going to find out what was really happening until this is all history.
You realize that when you watch interviews with guys like Mike Mearls who, now that he is out of the shadow of WotC and not burdened by NDA's and can speak freely, the inside story of what was really happening at Wizards of the Coast at the time he worked there is vastly different from what anyone thought at the time.
In short, there is no telling what is going to happen and no amount of "positive" or "negative" thinking is going to change the reality on the ground but what is very likely to be true is that we are all wrong about it, that the real story is something that is very likely going to be altogether very different what we think today.
Its fascinating to watch the history sort of unfold live, but right now I would say the only thing we do know for certain is that things are not going according to plan at Wizards of the Coast and its going to be interesting to see how they respond to this latest development.
Personally I think we are witnessing the inevitable closure of Sigil, but I could be very wrong about that. The real question here is wether or not, 3d virtual table top gaming is something for which there is even a market. I pointed out in an earlier post that Talespire, a very similar product has a customer base of about 300 people. Meaning there are about 300 people actively using the tool on a monthly basis. That is a pretty good indication of the size of the community that might be willing to run games in a 3d virtual table top and to WotC numbers like that I think are far too low to justify it and this series of lay-offs is just the first reaction to that realization by WotC.
My assumptions about Sigil were always "well, it's not impossible that they'll succeed... but I wouldn't bet on it", for the simple reason that what they're trying to do is hard, there's established competitors, and it's not particularly connected to their traditional areas of competency. Also, I don't think they really understood the VTT market, ease of use is way more important than fancy graphics.
Every journalist or YouTuber or media analyst who reports on this industry is talking about how bad this is. Is it just me or is it only ever on these forums where we see a comparative marginal few defend or make excuses for Wizards' decisions?
I mean, it's certainly not a positive, but controversy also makes for better clickbait.
No-one is calling it good. It's just not as significant as people want to think it is. Bear in mind the person who looks worst as a result of all this is Chris Cao, who last I knew everyone seemed to hate anyway, and as far as I know he's actually under a separate department (digital entertainment) from the regular D&D development. For that matter, there's plenty of history of him feuding with and wanting to 'destroy' D&D Beyond, so the fact that there was apparently lack of cooperation between the DDB team and the Project Sigil team is... not exactly surprising.
Sounds like someone needs to be replaced if that is the case. I couldn't tell you who - I have no idea what's going on - but that isn't how a good company works. You're paid to make it work the best possible way. Your own personal opinions and spats shouldn't interfere with giving it the best shot at its ventures that it can.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Cao is let go soon, although he’ll probably get a nice golden parachute. He’s ex-MicroSoft and ex-Xbox and was obviously hired on the promise that he could turn D&D into a digital gold mine and has spectacularly failed to do that. It makes me wonder how much of the rumours that Hasbro executives thought Sigil was going to be a standalone video game that they could sell like BG3 to non-D&D players is because that’s exactly what he promised. In interviews he’s certainly never come across as someone who actually plays TTRPGs so it’s entirely possible that he also fundamentally misunderstood what he was making and who he was making it for
Whatever the plan for Sigil was, no matter how you look at it, with 90% of the staff laid off at this early stage in its development it means that these plans were complete and indisputable failures. Given how large of a part digital D&D was for the 2024 edition of the game, with so much energy and focus on Sigil being a major player in the future of the game, it begs the question what IS the plan for D&D in 2025?
My hope is that WotC recognizes that they make a tabletop game and focus on producing quality content for the game. Right now, the best that can be said about 2024 edition assuming that it is in fact "The Best Selling D&D of all Time" is that there is potential for great success if they can support the game with content worth buying.
To me the last few years of content for D&D has been very weak. The last good D&D book that was worth a purchase (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything) was released in 2020, that is nearly five years ago. The last decent adventure was Tales from the Yawning Portal released back in 2017. This is my opinion of course, but the point Im making is that I just don't feel like there is anything worth buying for D&D right now. The 2024 books was a little burst of energy the game had, but what's to be excited about at this point now that the game is launched?
Another starter set? An expansion to Eberron? Yet another version of Forgotten Realms?
Right now the things slated for release for the 2024 edition of the game look more like something you would see at the end of an edition when the game is dying out and a new edition is about to be announced. I have 5 different versions of Forgotten Realms on my shelf already, I honestly do not need or want another one. I don't care about Eberron and I don't need another starter box... It's just quite literally nothing to buy for what appears to be the entirety of 2025 which amounts to a grand total of 4 books.
From my perspective right now, there just isn't much to hang your hat on when it comes to 5e. Not that I was all that excited about Sigil, but at least it was something new to try, something to fiddle with.
This ignores all of the free adventures given away.
But more to the point:
People REALLY need to cool it with the "it's dead, let's celebrate all of the death" talk.
Y'all are ignoring the dev who said it isn't dead to run victory laps & post more doomerism to try & "win" this discussion.
Are you ignoring that counter-evidence?
(Firing people is still wrong, especially in this day and age, but still, evidence that SIgil is not dead exists.)
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Letting contractors go when the project wraps up one way or another is how these projects work. D&D simply doesn’t have the portfolio to keep a full software development team like this on full time.
10% are still there, & a member of that 10% said it's not dead.
Ignoring that is intellectually dishonest.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I'm really sad about it honestly. I wanted to try it so bad I even got a beta invite before they opened it up and as luck would have it, my computer bit the dust a few weeks before that and so I've never even gotten to do it. Now they are shuttering it apparently and even when I finally do get a new computer I won't be able to do it.
It's unlikely to be shut down immediately and depending on which rumors you believe, it may not even be on the table. It's a lot of speculation right now. That said, I have tried both Talespire and Sigil and Talespire is a much better tool, both for building and running the game, not to mention a lot cheaper. So if you are interested in doing 3d VTT, Sigil or not there are tools out there that offer that sort of service.
But, it is dead. There was an internal email by Dan Rawson saying as much posted onrascal.
”Dear Team, I want to share an important update regarding Sigil. After several months of alpha testing, we’ve concluded that our aspirations for Sigil as a larger, standalone game with a distinct monetization path will not be realized. As such, we cannot maintain a large development effort and most of the Sigil team will be separated from the company this week. We are, however, proud of what the Sigil team has developed and want to make sure that fans and players on DDB can use it. To that end, we will transition Sigil to a DDB feature. We will maintain a small team to sustain Sigil and release products already developed at no additional cost to users. To those moving on as a result of this decision, we will provide robust support, including severance packages, 2024 bonus, career placement services, and internal opportunities where possible.
I want to take a moment to praise the entire Sigil team for their incredible work to deliver this product to our community. One of the things I’m most proud of here at D&D is our strong sense of purpose. We aim to honor our current players while ensuring D&D continues to build connections and bring joy to future generations. And that’s what the Sigil team was doing. Although we haven’t fully realized our vision for Sigil to scale, the team should be proud of their achievements.”
And for people wanting free stuff, there it is. What’s there is free.
Probably a return to core competencies (i.e. publishing).
There’s a reason I said “wraps up” and “full software development team”. Clearly they’re not just closing up shop, but if they’ve got the body of the software where they want it- or at least as far as they’re taking it for now- there’s no reason for them to keep most of the team. The project of “build the Sigil program” is over.