I just wonder what makes the "multiple copies per person" or "buys but doesn't play" any differently for 2024-2025 than to 2014-2023...
Nothing. But if you read what I have been saying I mention how different factors have since come into play since even earlier editions:
the advent of digital and consumer trends in which we see customers buy more than one copy and tables sharing a single copy less and less than they used to
Any differences between 2014 and 2024 are going to be marginal in that regard.
If you can't provide numbers for how many people buy multiple copies of a given book, it's not really a compelling argument that it's somehow having a meaningful impact on sales.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I think if you look at the history of the game, the reality and the perception have rarely matched up.
For example most people would agree that 4th edition, at least as it compares to other editions of the game was a moderate failure if not a catastrophic one. But the thing is that the core books sold very well. The problem with 4e wasn't sales, the problem was that so few people who bought it continued to play it. The basis for the success of an edition isn't how many people buy the core books, it's how many play the game enough to want to buy the books that follow.
We won't know how successful 2024 is as an edition of D&D for another two years at least. If people aren't buying the follow-up books and switching to other games as they did in the 4e days to Pathfinder 1e, then we'll know it's not going well.
Until then, unless WotC changes their policy and decides to show us hard sales figures, all anyone can do is guess and that is ALL anyone can do. There is no useful information on which to base an actual assessment. Lots of people are doing it anyway, but it's all pretty meaningless because it's impossible to know what is and isn't related to the imminent success or failure of 2024 D&D.
Is Crawford and Perkins leaving a sign that things are going badly? Maybe... or maybe it doesn't mean anything at all, maybe it's just a couple of guys tired of working on D&D and wanting to do something else. Is Hasbro stock dropping a sign D&D is not selling? Maybe, maybe it has nothing to do with D&D at all. Sigil failure a problem for 2024 D&D? Maybe... or maybe not.
The only thing that we do know with 100% certainty is that WotC is sticking to their guns with the story that everything is going beyond expectations. It's the best-selling D&D in history, according to the company. The source of this information is WotC, a company that has lied and tried to cheat this community so many times that it would be foolish of anyone to think that anything that comes out of them has any truth to it at all. WotC lies... PERIOD.
i can only speak for myself but i didnt buy tashas, Xanathar's or any alternative cover editions.... just because some people do, doesnt mean everyone does :)
My point is this consumer trend sees players buying books they needn't buy. And it's really a recent trend..
No, it's not a recent trend, there have been both book collectors and people who entirely relied on other people's books since the start of the hobby. If you've perceived a change, it's probably a function of age, older players on average have more disposable income and are thus more likely to buy books.
Folk, this has very quickly derailed the thread and gone off on a tangent you have already had elsewhere. While some of you have tried to pull this back to being relevant to the topic of hand (Perkins and Crawford leaving) the majority of these posts discussing book sales have not been constructive, and again- if you find yourself replying solely to one person, take a step back and consider if that conversation is being constructive to the thread as a whole or if you can say your piece and leave it at that.
For now however, drop the book sales discussion and try to get back on topic. You have discussed it elsewhere and can continue to discuss it elsewhere, when it's constructive.
Can some one fill me in on who took their spots? I have been focusing on another game and haven't been able to keep up. I just checked D&D beyond video about the Arcane Class, but didn't see the guy is normally asking the questions (Todd?). Did he leave with them?
Can some one fill me in on who took their spots? I have been focusing on another game and haven't been able to keep up. I just checked D&D beyond video about the Arcane Class, but didn't see the guy is normally asking the questions (Todd?). Did he leave with them?
Todd left as well at around the same time.
At the present time, they announced two veteran designers will be jointly leading the design process.
James Wyatt has been with Wizards since 2000, and before that, he did freelance work for TSR starting in 1996. For his very first assignment for 3e, he was entrusted to write two thirds of the book, and he has been design lead on a number of sourcebook and has even authored published D&D fiction books.
Wes Schneider started writing D&D content for Paizo in 2003. He eventually became the editor-in-chief for Paizo. He joined Wizards in 2019 and worked as an assistant lead on a number of projects, and the main lead on the well-regarded Van Richten’s and Nebula Award winning Radiant Citadel.
Both seem like great talents with lots of experience in mechanics, design, leadership, and lore. Really strong team with complementary backgrounds in deep D&D experience and experience with other games. It will be interesting to see how well they do, but, at least based on their past products and resumes, D&D looks to be in a strong place.
Can some one fill me in on who took their spots? I have been focusing on another game and haven't been able to keep up. I just checked D&D beyond video about the Arcane Class, but didn't see the guy is normally asking the questions (Todd?). Did he leave with them?
On the Todd Kenreck front it's worth noting he's gone back to his pre-D&D employment roots and restarted his YouTube and patreon. He's worth a follow, the reason he got the official interview job in the first place was because he was already interviewing the big names and with those friendships still in place he's already released some great coverage of Daggerheart's latest announcements
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I just wonder what makes the "multiple copies per person" or "buys but doesn't play" any differently for 2024-2025 than to 2014-2023...
Nothing. But if you read what I have been saying I mention how different factors have since come into play since even earlier editions:
the advent of digital and consumer trends in which we see customers buy more than one copy and tables sharing a single copy less and less than they used to
Any differences between 2014 and 2024 are going to be marginal in that regard.
If you can't provide numbers for how many people buy multiple copies of a given book, it's not really a compelling argument that it's somehow having a meaningful impact on sales.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Is Crawford and Perkins leaving a sign that things are going badly? Maybe... or maybe it doesn't mean anything at all, maybe it's just a couple of guys tired of working on D&D and wanting to do something else. Is Hasbro stock dropping a sign D&D is not selling? Maybe, maybe it has nothing to do with D&D at all. Sigil failure a problem for 2024 D&D? Maybe... or maybe not.
The only thing that we do know with 100% certainty is that WotC is sticking to their guns with the story that everything is going beyond expectations. It's the best-selling D&D in history, according to the company. The source of this information is WotC, a company that has lied and tried to cheat this community so many times that it would be foolish of anyone to think that anything that comes out of them has any truth to it at all. WotC lies... PERIOD.
i can only speak for myself but i didnt buy tashas, Xanathar's or any alternative cover editions....
just because some people do, doesnt mean everyone does :)
No, it's not a recent trend, there have been both book collectors and people who entirely relied on other people's books since the start of the hobby. If you've perceived a change, it's probably a function of age, older players on average have more disposable income and are thus more likely to buy books.
Golly, I'll miss Perkins & Crawford.
As long as they don't replace them with suits, & instead promote Mackenzie Di Armas, we're fine.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
ModeratorFolk, this has very quickly derailed the thread and gone off on a tangent you have already had elsewhere. While some of you have tried to pull this back to being relevant to the topic of hand (Perkins and Crawford leaving) the majority of these posts discussing book sales have not been constructive, and again- if you find yourself replying solely to one person, take a step back and consider if that conversation is being constructive to the thread as a whole or if you can say your piece and leave it at that.
For now however, drop the book sales discussion and try to get back on topic. You have discussed it elsewhere and can continue to discuss it elsewhere, when it's constructive.
D&D Beyond ToS || D&D Beyond Support
Both have now signed with Darlington Press with Critical Role.
Yep! I have links to the official announcement here.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Can some one fill me in on who took their spots? I have been focusing on another game and haven't been able to keep up. I just checked D&D beyond video about the Arcane Class, but didn't see the guy is normally asking the questions (Todd?). Did he leave with them?
Todd left as well at around the same time.
At the present time, they announced two veteran designers will be jointly leading the design process.
James Wyatt has been with Wizards since 2000, and before that, he did freelance work for TSR starting in 1996. For his very first assignment for 3e, he was entrusted to write two thirds of the book, and he has been design lead on a number of sourcebook and has even authored published D&D fiction books.
Wes Schneider started writing D&D content for Paizo in 2003. He eventually became the editor-in-chief for Paizo. He joined Wizards in 2019 and worked as an assistant lead on a number of projects, and the main lead on the well-regarded Van Richten’s and Nebula Award winning Radiant Citadel.
Both seem like great talents with lots of experience in mechanics, design, leadership, and lore. Really strong team with complementary backgrounds in deep D&D experience and experience with other games. It will be interesting to see how well they do, but, at least based on their past products and resumes, D&D looks to be in a strong place.
Todd Kenreck posted on his social media that he was laid off.
pronouns: he/she/they
On the Todd Kenreck front it's worth noting he's gone back to his pre-D&D employment roots and restarted his YouTube and patreon. He's worth a follow, the reason he got the official interview job in the first place was because he was already interviewing the big names and with those friendships still in place he's already released some great coverage of Daggerheart's latest announcements