I need to know more than the checklist comparing the 3 tiers before I dive in. Is a campaign or two included ? Is there a tutorial section to help people become DM's with the maps ?
If I end my sub, what happens to anything that I have bought ? Have I just lost all access to them ?
you only lose what the subscription gives you, so if you have 15 characters, you'll need to get rid of 9 of them to return to the 6 slots a free account has. Any material/books you've brought is a separate transaction to the subscription and not affected by your subscription tier in any meaningful way.
You wouldn’t need to remove those extra characters if your subscription ends. The site will instead prompt you to choose the six you want to keep unlocked. The rest can still be viewed but not edited unless you resubscribe or then remove characters to get back below the limit.
You wouldn’t need to remove those extra characters if your subscription ends. The site will instead prompt you to choose the six you want to keep unlocked. The rest can still be viewed but not edited unless you resubscribe or then remove characters to get back below the limit.
aside from the things mentioned by others already, is content sharing ( everything you have you can share with your players ) you can get the full use of Maps tool the 2d VTT, and up to15 games hosted on sigil along with 143 minis, 60 unpainted, 83 painted. I should note that Sigil's future is uncertain, to the point that many poeple consider it dead on arrival, and i hear it is a nightmare to even get running.
No adventures, no books are included as far as i can tell. But you can share the things you already paid for. It honestly just sounds like a Systemic formalized DM tax.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
Correct, you will own nothing you pay for on this site, and they can change or take anything you have paid for anytime they want.
And beer companies have the legal right to take "their" beer back from your body. It's just not as easy as pulling the Bilgewater subclasses due to legal issues & a license for Rick & Morty expiring & thus needing removal.
What you're referring to is known as a boilerplate statement.
Having boilerplate statements in ToS is not tantamount to active plans to enact them(No, 2 years ago is not now). & yes, beer has ToS if you were to talk to the companies' lawyers.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Correct, you will own nothing you pay for on this site, and they can change or take anything you have paid for anytime they want.
Yes, because there's nothing for you to physically own when dealing with electronic versions of things.
When you buy a physical rulebook, what you "own" is only the paper, card, and ink that makes up the book, it's physical components. You don't own the IP contained within its pages, the rules and art. You own the physical object that has had that IP bound to its surface. That book is your physical access token to the content, limited in use to keeping the token intact.
When you buy a digital license, you're buying a license because there's no physical token, nothing physical at all to own. What would you own, the electrons?
This is nothing new and nothing insidious. It's simply how electronic access must function. Even when you buy a PDF from say the DMs Guild, you don't own that PDF. What you own is a license to access the download portal and download PDF onto your local machine. That machine is the "physical access token" much like the book. Basically with accessing IP, be it rules for a game or a work of fiction or an academic textbook, that access basically takes one of three forms:
A physical license in the form of a physical book. That book is your proof of license to access the IP and that license lasts as long as it physically endures.
A digital license to download digital duplicates of the IP in some format, be it PDF, ePub, or proprietary. That license lasts as long as your agreement with the platform lasts (per their TOS) and the digital copies endure on whatever storage medium you use.
A digital license to access digital versions of the IP through some form of browser or app. That license lasts as long as your agreement with the platform lasts (per their TOS)
D&D Beyond primarily uses 3, but their offline app kinda strays into 2. It's a bit hazy because the app requires re-authentication to verify licenses so it's closer to 3.
If someone wants to "own" something (albeit not the actual IP itself), physical is the only way to do that. But that's nothing new nor shocking
1. No, you don't own it. Yes, this is a significant detail in the case of DDB and should not be disregarded when buying something here.
2. You will almost certainly lose the content one day. How long that will be depends on things beyond our ability to see, but one day the server will shut down and the content will be gone. It's not a matter of if, in practical terms, but when. Unfortunately, any guess as to when is just pure speculation at this point.
3. If you're lucky, you may be granted the PDFs to owned content when that happens. I'm not optimistic given the past behaviour of WotC, but it's possible.
4. They can change your content at will - and have done so in the past.
5. It's important to note that this isn't down to some moustache-twirling plot. It's the nature of the industry. If D&D crashes and burns one day and nobody ever buys a single DDB book again or has a subscription, then it's not reasonable to expect them to carry on paying for the servers etc in perpetuity - nobody would ever try a business like this if they were bound to do so.
This is true of pretty much every digital service. I had an account with a bunch of films on it with UV - that service where if you bought a DVD, you'd get the digital film as well by streaming it from them for free. They couldn't afford to keep going a few years ago, so they closed down. Luckily, Google stepped in and offered to give any films we had on those accounts for free on the Google Films service instead, so I still have access, but the point remains - it's normal. If NetFlix shuts down tomorrow, you'd not retain access. Same with iTunes, your Kindle book purchases, whatever. This is normal for digital services, DDB isn't special in this regard. It's a decision you have to make - is what DDB offers worth it for the next few years for what you pay? If so, then go for it. If not...then you have to weigh things up.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I need to know more than the checklist comparing the 3 tiers before I dive in. Is a campaign or two included ? Is there a tutorial section to help people become DM's with the maps ?
If I end my sub, what happens to anything that I have bought ? Have I just lost all access to them ?
Thanks :)
There is nothing more than what is said in the listed description. However I do have some points that will help with your choice.
Free Tier if you play one character at a time, in one game, and your DM has shared everything as a Master Tier Subscriber. You will never need to buy a thing, you have a good DM.
Hero Tier, you plan on buying everything, and will constantly make new build ideas, however you are not planning on ever DMing a game.
Master Tier, you are the DM, and you have purchased all the books, you also run more than one game, and share everything with your players. This tier has cost me thousands of bucks in the last 10 years. As I own everything, and share with 4 campaigns.
Thanks everyone for replying. It seems this is another case of buying something but not owning it.
I will have to pay a monthly fee to access what I have paid for. Double dipping.
It’s not double dipping and you’re not paying to access what you’ve paid for. You can access all the books you’ve bought in here without having a membership. The membership allows you to share those books with other people. Two completely separate services
It’s not double dipping and you’re not paying to access what you’ve paid for. You can access all the books you’ve bought in here without having a membership. The membership allows you to share those books with other people. Two completely separate services
Okay, this is good to know. I didnt know about the sharing part. I like that a lot.
Correct, you will own nothing you pay for on this site, and they can change or take anything you have paid for anytime they want.
Yes, because there's nothing for you to physically own when dealing with electronic versions of things.
When you buy a physical rulebook, what you "own" is only the paper, card, and ink that makes up the book, it's physical components. You don't own the IP contained within its pages, the rules and art. You own the physical object that has had that IP bound to its surface. That book is your physical access token to the content, limited in use to keeping the token intact.
When you buy a digital license, you're buying a license because there's no physical token, nothing physical at all to own. What would you own, the electrons?
This is nothing new and nothing insidious. It's simply how electronic access must function. Even when you buy a PDF from say the DMs Guild, you don't own that PDF. What you own is a license to access the download portal and download PDF onto your local machine. That machine is the "physical access token" much like the book. Basically with accessing IP, be it rules for a game or a work of fiction or an academic textbook, that access basically takes one of three forms:
A physical license in the form of a physical book. That book is your proof of license to access the IP and that license lasts as long as it physically endures.
A digital license to download digital duplicates of the IP in some format, be it PDF, ePub, or proprietary. That license lasts as long as your agreement with the platform lasts (per their TOS) and the digital copies endure on whatever storage medium you use.
A digital license to access digital versions of the IP through some form of browser or app. That license lasts as long as your agreement with the platform lasts (per their TOS)
D&D Beyond primarily uses 3, but their offline app kinda strays into 2. It's a bit hazy because the app requires re-authentication to verify licenses so it's closer to 3.
If someone wants to "own" something (albeit not the actual IP itself), physical is the only way to do that. But that's nothing new nor shocking
While I mostly agree with you, the difference in modern D&D Beyond is the lack of a PDF or portal format capability.
So while a paper book is a physical item, that cannot be removed even if you don't own the IP, a digital license to a platform does not guarantee the same permanent access format.
D&D Beyond needs to go back to selling the PDF versions of books for those people who want to guarantee usability of their purchases beyond the life of the platform. As Sly Flourish says, 3 different formats is the safest way to retain something.
We don't own the IP, but without the PDF, we can't walk away from the service, but the service *can* walk away from us (go offline or be changed).
It’s not double dipping and you’re not paying to access what you’ve paid for. You can access all the books you’ve bought in here without having a membership. The membership allows you to share those books with other people. Two completely separate services
Okay, this is good to know. I didnt know about the sharing part. I like that a lot.
It’s one of the biggest benefits of a Master Tier subscription. You can have up to five campaigns with up to twelve people in each and all of them will be able to use the books you own in the character builder (so long as they create characters in the shared campaign) and can download and read the books you own in the app and website. And it’s not just what you own, if sharing is turned on you can access everything they own too
Correct, you will own nothing you pay for on this site, and they can change or take anything you have paid for anytime they want.
Yes, because there's nothing for you to physically own when dealing with electronic versions of things.
When you buy a physical rulebook, what you "own" is only the paper, card, and ink that makes up the book, it's physical components. You don't own the IP contained within its pages, the rules and art. You own the physical object that has had that IP bound to its surface. That book is your physical access token to the content, limited in use to keeping the token intact.
When you buy a digital license, you're buying a license because there's no physical token, nothing physical at all to own. What would you own, the electrons?
This is nothing new and nothing insidious. It's simply how electronic access must function. Even when you buy a PDF from say the DMs Guild, you don't own that PDF. What you own is a license to access the download portal and download PDF onto your local machine. That machine is the "physical access token" much like the book. Basically with accessing IP, be it rules for a game or a work of fiction or an academic textbook, that access basically takes one of three forms:
A physical license in the form of a physical book. That book is your proof of license to access the IP and that license lasts as long as it physically endures.
A digital license to download digital duplicates of the IP in some format, be it PDF, ePub, or proprietary. That license lasts as long as your agreement with the platform lasts (per their TOS) and the digital copies endure on whatever storage medium you use.
A digital license to access digital versions of the IP through some form of browser or app. That license lasts as long as your agreement with the platform lasts (per their TOS)
D&D Beyond primarily uses 3, but their offline app kinda strays into 2. It's a bit hazy because the app requires re-authentication to verify licenses so it's closer to 3.
If someone wants to "own" something (albeit not the actual IP itself), physical is the only way to do that. But that's nothing new nor shocking
While I mostly agree with you, the difference in modern D&D Beyond is the lack of a PDF or portal format capability.
So while a paper book is a physical item, that cannot be removed even if you don't own the IP, a digital license to a platform does not guarantee the same permanent access format.
D&D Beyond needs to go back to selling the PDF versions of books for those people who want to guarantee usability of their purchases beyond the life of the platform. As Sly Flourish says, 3 different formats is the safest way to retain something.
We don't own the IP, but without the PDF, we can't walk away from the service, but the service *can* walk away from us (go offline or be changed).
You can literally use a browser’s print function to save the pages as PDFs.
And, despite the handwringing about them theoretically deciding to nuke the site, let’s look at reality: the initial iteration of 5e ran for 10 years with a steady stream of new content releases. Beyond has been around for most if not all of that time and in addition to keeping up with the official publications hosted some 3PP ahead of WotC’s current partnership arrangement with publishers. WotC has deemed 5e to have enough interest and support they went for a relatively low-end rules update this past year rather than attempt a whole new edition, they stuck with Beyond rather than trying to invent a better mousetrap for the update, and they’ve been adding more and more 3PP content to Beyond. They are giving every indication that Beyond is a cornerstone of their business model going forward, and they expect 5e to remain relevant for the foreseeable future. Barring something on the order of being hit by a bolt of lightning, there’s no reason to expect that everything here is going to just go poof without warning.
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I need to know more than the checklist comparing the 3 tiers before I dive in.
Is a campaign or two included ?
Is there a tutorial section to help people become DM's with the maps ?
If I end my sub, what happens to anything that I have bought ? Have I just lost all access to them ?
Thanks :)
No, there are no included campaigns. Their is no included tutorial. What you get is what's listed in the checklist.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
That is disappointing. Not even an old campaign.
What happens to what I buy if I stop subbing ?
Absolutely nothing.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
you only lose what the subscription gives you, so if you have 15 characters, you'll need to get rid of 9 of them to return to the 6 slots a free account has. Any material/books you've brought is a separate transaction to the subscription and not affected by your subscription tier in any meaningful way.
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ModeratorYou wouldn’t need to remove those extra characters if your subscription ends. The site will instead prompt you to choose the six you want to keep unlocked. The rest can still be viewed but not edited unless you resubscribe or then remove characters to get back below the limit.
Need help with D&D Beyond? Come ask in the official D&D server on Discord: https://discord.gg/qWzGhwBjYr
okay thanks
Thanks for the clarification.
https://marketplace.dndbeyond.com/subscribe#tiers-comparison-table
This should tell you what you want to know.
aside from the things mentioned by others already, is content sharing ( everything you have you can share with your players ) you can get the full use of Maps tool the 2d VTT, and up to15 games hosted on sigil along with 143 minis, 60 unpainted, 83 painted.
I should note that Sigil's future is uncertain, to the point that many poeple consider it dead on arrival, and i hear it is a nightmare to even get running.
No adventures, no books are included as far as i can tell. But you can share the things you already paid for.
It honestly just sounds like a Systemic formalized DM tax.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
Thanks everyone for replying.
It seems this is another case of buying something but not owning it.
I will have to pay a monthly fee to access what I have paid for.
Double dipping.
Correct, you will own nothing you pay for on this site, and they can change or take anything you have paid for anytime they want.
And beer companies have the legal right to take "their" beer back from your body. It's just not as easy as pulling the Bilgewater subclasses due to legal issues & a license for Rick & Morty expiring & thus needing removal.
What you're referring to is known as a boilerplate statement.
Having boilerplate statements in ToS is not tantamount to active plans to enact them(No, 2 years ago is not now). & yes, beer has ToS if you were to talk to the companies' lawyers.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Yes, because there's nothing for you to physically own when dealing with electronic versions of things.
When you buy a physical rulebook, what you "own" is only the paper, card, and ink that makes up the book, it's physical components. You don't own the IP contained within its pages, the rules and art. You own the physical object that has had that IP bound to its surface. That book is your physical access token to the content, limited in use to keeping the token intact.
When you buy a digital license, you're buying a license because there's no physical token, nothing physical at all to own. What would you own, the electrons?
This is nothing new and nothing insidious. It's simply how electronic access must function. Even when you buy a PDF from say the DMs Guild, you don't own that PDF. What you own is a license to access the download portal and download PDF onto your local machine. That machine is the "physical access token" much like the book. Basically with accessing IP, be it rules for a game or a work of fiction or an academic textbook, that access basically takes one of three forms:
D&D Beyond primarily uses 3, but their offline app kinda strays into 2. It's a bit hazy because the app requires re-authentication to verify licenses so it's closer to 3.
If someone wants to "own" something (albeit not the actual IP itself), physical is the only way to do that. But that's nothing new nor shocking
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Important points to note on the digital licence:
1. No, you don't own it. Yes, this is a significant detail in the case of DDB and should not be disregarded when buying something here.
2. You will almost certainly lose the content one day. How long that will be depends on things beyond our ability to see, but one day the server will shut down and the content will be gone. It's not a matter of if, in practical terms, but when. Unfortunately, any guess as to when is just pure speculation at this point.
3. If you're lucky, you may be granted the PDFs to owned content when that happens. I'm not optimistic given the past behaviour of WotC, but it's possible.
4. They can change your content at will - and have done so in the past.
5. It's important to note that this isn't down to some moustache-twirling plot. It's the nature of the industry. If D&D crashes and burns one day and nobody ever buys a single DDB book again or has a subscription, then it's not reasonable to expect them to carry on paying for the servers etc in perpetuity - nobody would ever try a business like this if they were bound to do so.
This is true of pretty much every digital service. I had an account with a bunch of films on it with UV - that service where if you bought a DVD, you'd get the digital film as well by streaming it from them for free. They couldn't afford to keep going a few years ago, so they closed down. Luckily, Google stepped in and offered to give any films we had on those accounts for free on the Google Films service instead, so I still have access, but the point remains - it's normal. If NetFlix shuts down tomorrow, you'd not retain access. Same with iTunes, your Kindle book purchases, whatever. This is normal for digital services, DDB isn't special in this regard. It's a decision you have to make - is what DDB offers worth it for the next few years for what you pay? If so, then go for it. If not...then you have to weigh things up.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
There is nothing more than what is said in the listed description. However I do have some points that will help with your choice.
Free Tier if you play one character at a time, in one game, and your DM has shared everything as a Master Tier Subscriber. You will never need to buy a thing, you have a good DM.
Hero Tier, you plan on buying everything, and will constantly make new build ideas, however you are not planning on ever DMing a game.
Master Tier, you are the DM, and you have purchased all the books, you also run more than one game, and share everything with your players. This tier has cost me thousands of bucks in the last 10 years. As I own everything, and share with 4 campaigns.
It’s not double dipping and you’re not paying to access what you’ve paid for. You can access all the books you’ve bought in here without having a membership. The membership allows you to share those books with other people. Two completely separate services
Okay, this is good to know. I didnt know about the sharing part. I like that a lot.
While I mostly agree with you, the difference in modern D&D Beyond is the lack of a PDF or portal format capability.
So while a paper book is a physical item, that cannot be removed even if you don't own the IP, a digital license to a platform does not guarantee the same permanent access format.
D&D Beyond needs to go back to selling the PDF versions of books for those people who want to guarantee usability of their purchases beyond the life of the platform. As Sly Flourish says, 3 different formats is the safest way to retain something.
We don't own the IP, but without the PDF, we can't walk away from the service, but the service *can* walk away from us (go offline or be changed).
It’s one of the biggest benefits of a Master Tier subscription. You can have up to five campaigns with up to twelve people in each and all of them will be able to use the books you own in the character builder (so long as they create characters in the shared campaign) and can download and read the books you own in the app and website. And it’s not just what you own, if sharing is turned on you can access everything they own too
You can literally use a browser’s print function to save the pages as PDFs.
And, despite the handwringing about them theoretically deciding to nuke the site, let’s look at reality: the initial iteration of 5e ran for 10 years with a steady stream of new content releases. Beyond has been around for most if not all of that time and in addition to keeping up with the official publications hosted some 3PP ahead of WotC’s current partnership arrangement with publishers. WotC has deemed 5e to have enough interest and support they went for a relatively low-end rules update this past year rather than attempt a whole new edition, they stuck with Beyond rather than trying to invent a better mousetrap for the update, and they’ve been adding more and more 3PP content to Beyond. They are giving every indication that Beyond is a cornerstone of their business model going forward, and they expect 5e to remain relevant for the foreseeable future. Barring something on the order of being hit by a bolt of lightning, there’s no reason to expect that everything here is going to just go poof without warning.