btw sorry if it sounds like im being negative or trying to say everyone is wrong bc yall arent i just wish WOTC took the time to be a little more friendly to upcasting so it would add on different effects or grow in size or something beyond mosts basic damage increase
In older editions, there was no need for upcasting because damage scaled with caster level even just casting at the original spell level. Then they put caps on how far it would upscale. And now upscaling costs a higher level spell slot.
So it has actually been being nerfed over the various editions.
The other thing that the Upcasting mechanic did was consolidate similar spells at multiple levels with a single spell that could be Upcast, which helped for characters with a much more limited number of Spells Known than 3.5e typically did.
btw sorry if it sounds like im being negative or trying to say everyone is wrong bc yall arent i just wish WOTC took the time to be a little more friendly to upcasting so it would add on different effects or grow in size or something beyond mosts basic damage increase
In older editions, there was no need for upcasting because damage scaled with caster level even just casting at the original spell level. Then they put caps on how far it would upscale. And now upscaling costs a higher level spell slot.
So it has actually been being nerfed over the various editions.
The other thing that the Upcasting mechanic did was consolidate similar spells at multiple levels with a single spell that could be Upcast, which helped for characters with a much more limited number of Spells Known than 3.5e typically did.
Mass Cure Light Wounds(1d8 + caster level, 1 recipient per caster level), Level 5 spell,
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds(2d8 + caster level, 1 recipient per caster level), Level 6 spell,
Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Mass Cure Critical Wounds, similar
I really enjoyed playing a clerical character during 3rd edition.
I could see a cure wounds house rule in 5e24 that lets you add to the number of creatures you're healing per upcast level and divide the dice accordingly -- i.e. a 3rd-level upcast would normally be 6d8 on one creature, so you could do 3d8 on two creatures instead. Or maybe that's better suited to a cleric/sorc multiclass where the DM lets you get more creative with your Metamagic...
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Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator (Assassin rogue) Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If all upcast spells were as good as higher level spells casters would invariably multiclass. They would have many more spells prepared.
Some spells like fly upcast very well, most damage based spells upcast poorly (ie an upcast spell does less than a higher level spell using the same spell slot and some spells do not upcast at all and I am happy with that.
really? upcasting wasnt in older editions at all? also that really should be the case with spells imo id love to see spells designed to be upcast to gain more effects
Back in my day your level meant something in the strength of the casting. Lol
1E didn’t cap anything. Fireball was CLd6, so 5th level did 5d6, 15th level did 15d6. No cap on magic missiles either, you got an extra missile every odd level.
BECMI and 2E gave us our first caps.
3E gave us the new save DC system, which I think was better than what we had. And you could make it harder to save with ability score increases.
4E…… we don’t talk about 4E…
So 5E upcasting, I don’t find worth it very often there are a few that are worth it, usually they increase number of targets type. I’d rather see upcasting do something along the lines of increase in DC or treat 1s as 2s on dice.
Of all the classes, I believe that bards, rangers, and sorcerers benefit the most from upcasting since they've got such limited numbers of spells known compared to other classes.
It's been too long since I played 2E to remember the rules for preparing spells clearly, but for 3E a character always had the option of preparing a spell using a higher level slot than the spell's level, they just didn't get any extra use out of it.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Quote from UnkKnellnapper really? upcasting wasnt in older editions at all? also that really should be the case with spells imo id love to see spells designed to be upcast to gain more effects
Back in my day your level meant something in the strength of the casting. Lol
3E gave us the new save DC system, which I think was better than what we had. And you could make it harder to save with ability score increases.
4E…… we don’t talk about 4E…
What I liked about 3rd edition was the wide availability of feats and meta magic. Crafting a wand was very straightforward and my cleric PCs regularly crafted Wands of Cure Light Wounds(50 charges of curing 1d8 + 1) and Wands of Cure Moderate Wounds(50 charges of curing 2d8 + 3). My clerics were able to keep the entire party stitched together.
4th edition was different. The concept of Healing Surges took a bit of learning, along with the fact that skimping on your CON attribute meant that your Hit Point total and your daily allotment of Healing Surges were definitely affected. (At least one of the players in the gaming group back then, had skimped so low on his CON attribute that an average encounter would leave him literally at Death's Doorstep.) On the other hand, the various magic items were available in the PHB, which made it very easy to plan for an upgrade in one's item arsenal.
September 7, 2025: Also in 4th edition, none of your enchanted items had to be Attuned to you, all you had to do was to simply put the item on and you got all the benefits; you just had to not be too greedy for items. In edition 5.5, once you are Attuned to your character's maximum number of items (usually three), you are done unless you un-Attune from one so that you can Attune to something else.
really? upcasting wasnt in older editions at all? also that really should be the case with spells imo id love to see spells designed to be upcast to gain more effects
Back in my day your level meant something in the strength of the casting. Lol
1E didn’t cap anything. Fireball was CLd6, so 5th level did 5d6, 15th level did 15d6. No cap on magic missiles either, you got an extra missile every odd level.
BECMI and 2E gave us our first caps.
3E gave us the new save DC system, which I think was better than what we had. And you could make it harder to save with ability score increases.
4E…… we don’t talk about 4E…
So 5E upcasting, I don’t find worth it very often there are a few that are worth it, usually they increase number of targets type. I’d rather see upcasting do something along the lines of increase in DC or treat 1s as 2s on dice.
Warlocks have no choice with respect to up casting: their spell slots are always at one constant level.
Upcasting is great on sustained spells or healing spells. Take Flaming Sphere as an example. It normally does 2d6 damage each round of combat (typically. It might hit more targets depending on the environment). If you upcast it to 3rd level, it now does 3d6 each round, meaning it does 3d6 more damage than the 2nd level version. In longer combats, upcasting it is even better.
L2 Flaming Sphere does 2d6, L3 does 3d6, so it only does 1d6 extra above a L2.
It's actually illustrative of why upcasting is not ideal. If I have a L3 slot, I could upcast Flaming Sphere to 3d6 within 7.5'. Maybe do that twice for 6d6 if I don't lose Concentration and nobody moves. Or I can cast Fireball for 8d6 in a 20' radius.
There are niches where it's not true, but most of the time...I'm going for Fireball.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
L2 Flaming Sphere does 2d6, L3 does 3d6, so it only does 1d6 extra above a L2.
It's actually illustrative of why upcasting is not ideal. If I have a L3 slot, I could upcast Flaming Sphere to 3d6 within 10'. Maybe do that twice for 6d6 if I don't lose Concentration and nobody moves. Or I can cast Fireball for 8d6 in a 20' radius.
There are niches where it's not true, but most of the time...I'm going for Fireball
I realized that I didn't word that well. I was calculating damage over a typical 3-round combat. Although Fireball is way better. Unless you're in a hallway.
I realized that I didn't word that well. I was calculating damage over a typical 3-round combat. Although Fireball is way better. Unless you're in a hallway.
I think you might be recalling Fireball as it was in AD&D 2nd Ed?
In 3rd Edition+ , Fireball doesn't harm you as long as you're more than 20 ft from its center, so there's only a small issue with casting it in a sufficiently lengthy hallway.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
I realized that I didn't word that well. I was calculating damage over a typical 3-round combat. Although Fireball is way better. Unless you're in a hallway.
I think you might be recalling Fireball as it was in AD&D 2nd Ed?
In 3rd Edition+ , Fireball doesn't harm you as long as you're more than 20 ft from its center, so there's only a small issue with casting it in a sufficiently lengthy hallway.
Anything 1st through 3.5 (maybe 4, too, less sure there, though). But in those editions, it started lower (5d6) but automatically upcast, without needing a higher level slot. IIRC, in 3.5, that was capped at 10d6
I realized that I didn't word that well. I was calculating damage over a typical 3-round combat. Although Fireball is way better. Unless you're in a hallway.
I think you might be recalling Fireball as it was in AD&D 2nd Ed?
In 3rd Edition+ , Fireball doesn't harm you as long as you're more than 20 ft from its center, so there's only a small issue with casting it in a sufficiently lengthy hallway.
I meant that flaming sphere is better in hallways because you can create a barrier with it. If the hallway is 5 feet wide, nothing can get past without jumping over it.
I realized that I didn't word that well. I was calculating damage over a typical 3-round combat. Although Fireball is way better. Unless you're in a hallway.
I think you might be recalling Fireball as it was in AD&D 2nd Ed?
In 3rd Edition+ , Fireball doesn't harm you as long as you're more than 20 ft from its center, so there's only a small issue with casting it in a sufficiently lengthy hallway.
I meant that flaming sphere is better in hallways because you can create a barrier with it. If the hallway is 5 feet wide, nothing can get past without jumping over it.
Ah, my mistake. I was Assuming the "Fireball conforms to fill room available, up to about 33,000 cubic feet" that was standard from OD&D up through AD&D 2nd Edition that made casting Fireball in corridors....heavily contra-indicated.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Haste is a powerful spell when used right (though thankfully no longer broken the way it was in 3.0 rules).
How did it differ from 2e?
In 3.0 rules, Haste targeted one creature and gave them +4 AC and an extra action/round. No restrictions. Spellcasters could cast it on themselves and start casting multiple spells per round without having to use Quicken Spell.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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Ah, yes, the Cure Wounds cycle of 3rd and 3.5 edition,
Cure Light Wounds (1d8 + caster level), Level 1 spell
Cure Moderate Wounds (2d8 + caster level), Level 2 spell,
Cure Serious Wounds (3d8 + caster level), Level 3 spell,
Cure Critical Wounds (4d8 + caster level), Level 4 spell,
Mass Cure Light Wounds(1d8 + caster level, 1 recipient per caster level), Level 5 spell,
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds(2d8 + caster level, 1 recipient per caster level), Level 6 spell,
Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Mass Cure Critical Wounds, similar
I really enjoyed playing a clerical character during 3rd edition.
I could see a cure wounds house rule in 5e24 that lets you add to the number of creatures you're healing per upcast level and divide the dice accordingly -- i.e. a 3rd-level upcast would normally be 6d8 on one creature, so you could do 3d8 on two creatures instead. Or maybe that's better suited to a cleric/sorc multiclass where the DM lets you get more creative with your Metamagic...
Active characters:
Edoumiaond Willegume "Eddie" Podslee, Vegetanian scholar (College of Spirits bard)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator (Assassin rogue)
Peter "the Pied Piper" Hausler, human con artist/remover of vermin (Circle of the Shepherd druid)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I think the upcasting balance is about right.
If all upcast spells were as good as higher level spells casters would invariably multiclass. They would have many more spells prepared.
Some spells like fly upcast very well, most damage based spells upcast poorly (ie an upcast spell does less than a higher level spell using the same spell slot and some spells do not upcast at all and I am happy with that.
Well, metamagic in 3.x was somewhat similar to upcasting, but aside from that no.
Back in my day your level meant something in the strength of the casting. Lol
1E didn’t cap anything. Fireball was CLd6, so 5th level did 5d6, 15th level did 15d6. No cap on magic missiles either, you got an extra missile every odd level.
BECMI and 2E gave us our first caps.
3E gave us the new save DC system, which I think was better than what we had. And you could make it harder to save with ability score increases.
4E…… we don’t talk about 4E…
So 5E upcasting, I don’t find worth it very often there are a few that are worth it, usually they increase number of targets type. I’d rather see upcasting do something along the lines of increase in DC or treat 1s as 2s on dice.
Of all the classes, I believe that bards, rangers, and sorcerers benefit the most from upcasting since they've got such limited numbers of spells known compared to other classes.
It's been too long since I played 2E to remember the rules for preparing spells clearly, but for 3E a character always had the option of preparing a spell using a higher level slot than the spell's level, they just didn't get any extra use out of it.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
What I liked about 3rd edition was the wide availability of feats and meta magic. Crafting a wand was very straightforward and my cleric PCs regularly crafted Wands of Cure Light Wounds(50 charges of curing 1d8 + 1) and Wands of Cure Moderate Wounds(50 charges of curing 2d8 + 3). My clerics were able to keep the entire party stitched together.
4th edition was different. The concept of Healing Surges took a bit of learning, along with the fact that skimping on your CON attribute meant that your Hit Point total and your daily allotment of Healing Surges were definitely affected. (At least one of the players in the gaming group back then, had skimped so low on his CON attribute that an average encounter would leave him literally at Death's Doorstep.) On the other hand, the various magic items were available in the PHB, which made it very easy to plan for an upgrade in one's item arsenal.
September 7, 2025: Also in 4th edition, none of your enchanted items had to be Attuned to you, all you had to do was to simply put the item on and you got all the benefits; you just had to not be too greedy for items. In edition 5.5, once you are Attuned to your character's maximum number of items (usually three), you are done unless you un-Attune from one so that you can Attune to something else.
Warlocks have no choice with respect to up casting: their spell slots are always at one constant level.
Upcasting is great on sustained spells or healing spells. Take Flaming Sphere as an example. It normally does 2d6 damage each round of combat (typically. It might hit more targets depending on the environment). If you upcast it to 3rd level, it now does 3d6 each round, meaning it does 3d6 more damage than the 2nd level version. In longer combats, upcasting it is even better.
L2 Flaming Sphere does 2d6, L3 does 3d6, so it only does 1d6 extra above a L2.
It's actually illustrative of why upcasting is not ideal. If I have a L3 slot, I could upcast Flaming Sphere to 3d6 within 7.5'. Maybe do that twice for 6d6 if I don't lose Concentration and nobody moves. Or I can cast Fireball for 8d6 in a 20' radius.
There are niches where it's not true, but most of the time...I'm going for Fireball.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I realized that I didn't word that well. I was calculating damage over a typical 3-round combat. Although Fireball is way better. Unless you're in a hallway.
I think you might be recalling Fireball as it was in AD&D 2nd Ed?
In 3rd Edition+ , Fireball doesn't harm you as long as you're more than 20 ft from its center, so there's only a small issue with casting it in a sufficiently lengthy hallway.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Anything 1st through 3.5 (maybe 4, too, less sure there, though). But in those editions, it started lower (5d6) but automatically upcast, without needing a higher level slot. IIRC, in 3.5, that was capped at 10d6
I meant that flaming sphere is better in hallways because you can create a barrier with it. If the hallway is 5 feet wide, nothing can get past without jumping over it.
Ah, my mistake. I was Assuming the "Fireball conforms to fill room available, up to about 33,000 cubic feet" that was standard from OD&D up through AD&D 2nd Edition that made casting Fireball in corridors....heavily contra-indicated.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
How did it differ from 2e?
In 3.0 rules, Haste targeted one creature and gave them +4 AC and an extra action/round. No restrictions. Spellcasters could cast it on themselves and start casting multiple spells per round without having to use Quicken Spell.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.