I really liked the 3.5 psionics handbook and expansion book. Is there any thought or interest in putting those back into this edition of the game? I started doing psionics in AD&D, along with the old school rules of bards. I only got two characters into full bards following the rules from back then but man when you hit 8th,9th level bard all of the abilities from before are available. But please bring back {sionics!
The Psion has recently been play-tested and will likely be coming to 5E, but i am pretty sure it will operate a little differently than 3.5.
so yes, there has been interest.
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He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
I'm not sure we can call "likely" at this point; they do seem to be exploring the Dark Sun setting in general and the potential for a Psion class, but until it gets a second pass through UA I wouldn't put the odds at better than 50/50. We know they've dropped class concepts that didn't pan out in UA in the past, and since there hasn't been an existing official Psion in 5e there's not the same pressure to bring it forward into 2024 rules as there was for the Artificer.
Is there interest? Definitely yes! Will they do it? Maybe. Will we like it? Maybe. I too played psions back in 1-3e and enjoyed them but I question that they will do anything with a “spell point” system like that. We already have a “psionics” sorcerer, fighter and rogue as well so I’m not sure there is space for a psion as it would step on sorcerer toes too heavily as a spell slot class.
The UA they did was like at least 60% Sorcerer in practice; I put the odds that they go to the Sisyphean task of trying to make a spell point system that actually gels effectively with spells designed around the spell slot system at 0% considering they didn't bother to try and bring that forward as an optional rule from the 2014 DMG, even as just a direct copy and paste.
Psion I can live with - but dear GOD please don't bring back Dark Sun. Just ... just imagine how bad it would be. There'd be dragonborne. And warforged. Presumably there'd be harengon. No slavery. No death arenas. No sorcerer-kings leeching the lives of their subjects to become dragons.
By comparison, a neutered psion class feels like mercy. 'Yes, please, please publish my favourite class in a version that's blander than cardboard - just make it stop! Please spare Dark Sun, please!! What did it ever do to you?'
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I mean, we’ve got a Gladiator Fighter subclass, Defiler Sorcerer subclass, and Sorcerer-King Warlock patron in the UA, so clearly they’re willing to bring some of the grit forwards. I believe prior books still noted that FR Drow were big on slave raids, so I wouldn’t rule it out as a setting element, albeit one that could likely be rolled back to the really bad places rather than a ubiquitous fact of life in the setting. As I mentioned in another thread, the thing I really expect to get a lot of people invested in the OG Dark Sun screaming about the game is that there’s probably going to be little to no rules for resource scarcity- certainly not like the whole “you’re using bone weapons and armor that will frequently break down and need to be replaced”.
I'm not sure we can call "likely" at this point; they do seem to be exploring the Dark Sun setting in general and the potential for a Psion class, but until it gets a second pass through UA I wouldn't put the odds at better than 50/50. We know they've dropped class concepts that didn't pan out in UA in the past, and since there hasn't been an existing official Psion in 5e there's not the same pressure to bring it forward into 2024 rules as there was for the Artificer.
I think we can fairly safely put the odds higher than 50-50. Psionics are an integral park of Dark Sun as a setting and with two UAs clearly focused on the plane, I think it is fair to put the odds of a forthcoming psionic class closer to 85-15. I do not want to put the odds at 100%, since they have scrapped work on planes before (Mystic UA was explicitly mentioned as being for a potential Dark Sun return years ago; Modern Magic UA was clearly designed for a Neon Kamigawa style plane that never materialized). However, I am not sure they have cancelled a UA plane after two play tests on a wide range of subjects (I believe Mystic got two, but that only was a single class, not showing work into fleshing out multiple aspects of the world), so I think the odds are much better than not.
Now, when will it be? That is anyone’s guess. I would expect not for some time. At the very least, FR and Eberron are both on the release calendar first, and there is a Horror Subclasses UA for a book that is almost certainly in the pipeline first.
I expect the earliest this will come out, which assumes they have most of the lore/adventure/other content not subject to play testing is going to be the end of 2025. It is possible it might be longer if they feel the need to redesign Psion based on feedback (which is very possible - I expect they received a fair bit of “this just feels like another caster, not a true psionic class,” though whether or not that was in sufficient numbers to sway Wizards’ design remains to be seen).
We aren't going t see a complete of Dark Sun setting. Maybe a chapter about the region of Tyr, the city-states and it to be unlocked in DMGuild.
My theory is we are going to see a future UA article about "psionic" PC species: fraals, shardmins, synads, xephs, elans, dromites and maenads.
I am too used to the psionic power points. I hope an optional rule where spellslots of "spirit magic" can be spent to earn power points, and these used for metamagic effects or like this. This could avoid the abuse of spending power points for the highest-level powers
I love the concept of the ardent class like a "frienemy" of the divine spellcasters with a fun love-hate relation (they may obey the same deity but distrust each other). The divine mind could be a paladin subclass, and the lurk other rogue psionic subclass
Not sure we should expect them to try and debut so many obscure species at once- the only name I have any context on is maenads, and that’s not in a D&D context. And do you have a specific reason you’re so certain they’re not going to do a more comprehensive setting book for Dark Sun?
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I really liked the 3.5 psionics handbook and expansion book. Is there any thought or interest in putting those back into this edition of the game? I started doing psionics in AD&D, along with the old school rules of bards. I only got two characters into full bards following the rules from back then but man when you hit 8th,9th level bard all of the abilities from before are available. But please bring back {sionics!
The Psion has recently been play-tested and will likely be coming to 5E, but i am pretty sure it will operate a little differently than 3.5.
so yes, there has been interest.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
I'm not sure we can call "likely" at this point; they do seem to be exploring the Dark Sun setting in general and the potential for a Psion class, but until it gets a second pass through UA I wouldn't put the odds at better than 50/50. We know they've dropped class concepts that didn't pan out in UA in the past, and since there hasn't been an existing official Psion in 5e there's not the same pressure to bring it forward into 2024 rules as there was for the Artificer.
Is there interest? Definitely yes! Will they do it? Maybe. Will we like it? Maybe. I too played psions back in 1-3e and enjoyed them but I question that they will do anything with a “spell point” system like that. We already have a “psionics” sorcerer, fighter and rogue as well so I’m not sure there is space for a psion as it would step on sorcerer toes too heavily as a spell slot class.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
The UA they did was like at least 60% Sorcerer in practice; I put the odds that they go to the Sisyphean task of trying to make a spell point system that actually gels effectively with spells designed around the spell slot system at 0% considering they didn't bother to try and bring that forward as an optional rule from the 2014 DMG, even as just a direct copy and paste.
Psion I can live with - but dear GOD please don't bring back Dark Sun. Just ... just imagine how bad it would be. There'd be dragonborne. And warforged. Presumably there'd be harengon. No slavery. No death arenas. No sorcerer-kings leeching the lives of their subjects to become dragons.
By comparison, a neutered psion class feels like mercy. 'Yes, please, please publish my favourite class in a version that's blander than cardboard - just make it stop! Please spare Dark Sun, please!! What did it ever do to you?'
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I mean, we’ve got a Gladiator Fighter subclass, Defiler Sorcerer subclass, and Sorcerer-King Warlock patron in the UA, so clearly they’re willing to bring some of the grit forwards. I believe prior books still noted that FR Drow were big on slave raids, so I wouldn’t rule it out as a setting element, albeit one that could likely be rolled back to the really bad places rather than a ubiquitous fact of life in the setting. As I mentioned in another thread, the thing I really expect to get a lot of people invested in the OG Dark Sun screaming about the game is that there’s probably going to be little to no rules for resource scarcity- certainly not like the whole “you’re using bone weapons and armor that will frequently break down and need to be replaced”.
I think we can fairly safely put the odds higher than 50-50. Psionics are an integral park of Dark Sun as a setting and with two UAs clearly focused on the plane, I think it is fair to put the odds of a forthcoming psionic class closer to 85-15. I do not want to put the odds at 100%, since they have scrapped work on planes before (Mystic UA was explicitly mentioned as being for a potential Dark Sun return years ago; Modern Magic UA was clearly designed for a Neon Kamigawa style plane that never materialized). However, I am not sure they have cancelled a UA plane after two play tests on a wide range of subjects (I believe Mystic got two, but that only was a single class, not showing work into fleshing out multiple aspects of the world), so I think the odds are much better than not.
Now, when will it be? That is anyone’s guess. I would expect not for some time. At the very least, FR and Eberron are both on the release calendar first, and there is a Horror Subclasses UA for a book that is almost certainly in the pipeline first.
I expect the earliest this will come out, which assumes they have most of the lore/adventure/other content not subject to play testing is going to be the end of 2025. It is possible it might be longer if they feel the need to redesign Psion based on feedback (which is very possible - I expect they received a fair bit of “this just feels like another caster, not a true psionic class,” though whether or not that was in sufficient numbers to sway Wizards’ design remains to be seen).
We aren't going t see a complete of Dark Sun setting. Maybe a chapter about the region of Tyr, the city-states and it to be unlocked in DMGuild.
My theory is we are going to see a future UA article about "psionic" PC species: fraals, shardmins, synads, xephs, elans, dromites and maenads.
I am too used to the psionic power points. I hope an optional rule where spellslots of "spirit magic" can be spent to earn power points, and these used for metamagic effects or like this. This could avoid the abuse of spending power points for the highest-level powers
I love the concept of the ardent class like a "frienemy" of the divine spellcasters with a fun love-hate relation (they may obey the same deity but distrust each other). The divine mind could be a paladin subclass, and the lurk other rogue psionic subclass
Not sure we should expect them to try and debut so many obscure species at once- the only name I have any context on is maenads, and that’s not in a D&D context. And do you have a specific reason you’re so certain they’re not going to do a more comprehensive setting book for Dark Sun?