Everyone always seems to give examples of Prestidigitation that dwells more into the realm of Minor Illusion. How are so many DM's allowing this? There has to be a dividing line. An easy to follow rule that would have the DM question the usage that crosses the line from one spell to another. My motto was always your describing Minor Illusion then it's Minor Illusion not Prestidigitation.
I find those spells to be quite distinct from each other.
For one, Prestidigitation is no illusion spell, but a transmutation. That means that the effects are real.
The only illusory effect you could achieve with it is an image that would fit inside your hand, and that only lasts until the end of your next turn, so 12 seconds at most.
Minor Illusion is a full minute of an object that fits a cube 5 feet on each side, or sound effects for that duration.
"We were playing an epic level evil campaign and all of us had to have one of the evil things from the book of vile darkness, addictions or what have you. I chose sadism. We were the last group of evil people left and the world was hunting for us, but i had to torture some one or else i suffered bad side affects. So while invisble and had a bunch of non detection crap on me i use prestidigitation to lure kids away out of the city and the protective magics it had, by making rocks sparkle and talk or bounce etc etc." Talk? Really!?
I think that was just an overly broad reading of the first option of the spell:
You create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, faint musical notes, or an odd odor.
As a DM, I'd probably not read "can make sounds like musical notes" as "can also make sounds like words," but I can see where other DMs might let it slide.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
When I read 'instantaneous' for the sensory effect, I'm thinking more along the lines of this:
Maybe one syllable words would work as a 'musical note', but more would not fit my understanding of Prestidigitation.
Minor Illusion specifically allows voices, even someone else's. On a tight interpretation, words might not even be allowed, but if you say that 'discrete sounds at different times' could include a modulated voice, it may work.
From my own reading, I'd say that the difference between Prestidigitation and Minor Illusion is that Prestidigitation is something that actually happens. Minor Illusion is something fake. The only exception is in Prestidigitation where it says
You create a nonmagical trinket or an illusory image that can fit in your hand and that lasts until the end of your next turn.
The fact that it would be visual only, very small (like a butterfly), and lasts 1 turn (instead of Minor Illusion's full minute) makes it very weak compared to Minor Illusion.
As a general rule I'd follow, anything that is a gray area, but covered more specifically under a different spell, is a different spell. One spell shouldn't replicate a spell of the same or higher level otherwise there is no reason for that other spell.
After reading over both spells, I would say that talking rocks are definitely not allowed. I guess the exact part of the sentence that Metamongoose listed:
You create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, faint musical notes, or an odd odor.
I say that instantaneous and sensory effect are the key points. Having the rocks actually talk isn't a sensory effect as its the actual rocks talking. And I'd say that talking isn't instantaneous as words and sentences take more than an instant.
This would also trample on something stated in Minor Illusion
If you create a sound, its volume can range from a whisper to a scream. It can be your voice, someone else's voice, a lion's roar, a beating of drums, or any other sound you choose. The sound continues unabated throughout the duration, or you can make discrete sounds at different times before the spell ends.
So that would violate my own general rule of not having a spell be another spell of the same level or higher.
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Good luck and may you roll 20's when you need them and 1's when you need a laugh. - myself
You create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, faint musical notes, or an odd odor.
I say that instantaneous and sensory effect are the key points. Having the rocks actually talk isn't a sensory effect as its the actual rocks talking. And I'd say that talking isn't instantaneous as words and sentences take more than an instant.
I could see where someone would rule that a simple one or two word statement like "Play!" or "Come play!" might qualify as a short enough burst of sound for Prestidigitation. That being said, something more elaborate like a full on Shining scenario would be among the purview of Minor Illusion.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
I see a lot of people claiming Prestidigitation can be used to make a key for a lock. In point of fact, Prestidigitation cannot create the key to the lock, because "the materials are extremely fragile" and "cannot be used as a tool." Keys and lockpicks are classified as tools in D&D, so that's out. You might be able to create a key, but you couldn't use it to open anything. And creating a copy of a particular key would likely require having studied it/an Int check or something.
"We were playing an epic level evil campaign and all of us had to have one of the evil things from the book of vile darkness, addictions or what have you. I chose sadism. We were the last group of evil people left and the world was hunting for us, but i had to torture some one or else i suffered bad side affects. So while invisble and had a bunch of non detection crap on me i use prestidigitation to lure kids away out of the city and the protective magics it had, by making rocks sparkle and talk or bounce etc etc." Talk? Really!?
You assumed something about a community of thousands because of a single quote?Really?
What I find more common is for people to use Minor Illusion to create moving or speaking illusions. I think the most common is something like, "I cast Minor Illusion to make it look like I've got a beard" or something like that. Like... yeah, I guess if you're standing perfectly still that's an option, but that's not really how most people treat it.
What I find more common is for people to use Minor Illusion to create moving or speaking illusions. I think the most common is something like, "I cast Minor Illusion to make it look like I've got a beard" or something like that. Like... yeah, I guess if you're standing perfectly still that's an option, but that's not really how most people treat it.
Personally, I allow it (even though it buffs Minor Illusion up to god-tier levels) for the fun of it
Everyone always seems to give examples of Prestidigitation that dwells more into the realm of Minor Illusion. How are so many DM's allowing this? There has to be a dividing line. An easy to follow rule that would have the DM question the usage that crosses the line from one spell to another. My motto was always your describing Minor Illusion then it's Minor Illusion not Prestidigitation.
I find those spells to be quite distinct from each other.
For one, Prestidigitation is no illusion spell, but a transmutation. That means that the effects are real.
The only illusory effect you could achieve with it is an image that would fit inside your hand, and that only lasts until the end of your next turn, so 12 seconds at most.
Minor Illusion is a full minute of an object that fits a cube 5 feet on each side, or sound effects for that duration.
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
I don't see much overlap in the spells. What examples have you been reading?
This from a forum:
I think that was just an overly broad reading of the first option of the spell:
As a DM, I'd probably not read "can make sounds like musical notes" as "can also make sounds like words," but I can see where other DMs might let it slide.
When I read 'instantaneous' for the sensory effect, I'm thinking more along the lines of this:
Maybe one syllable words would work as a 'musical note', but more would not fit my understanding of Prestidigitation.
Minor Illusion specifically allows voices, even someone else's. On a tight interpretation, words might not even be allowed, but if you say that 'discrete sounds at different times' could include a modulated voice, it may work.
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
From my own reading, I'd say that the difference between Prestidigitation and Minor Illusion is that Prestidigitation is something that actually happens. Minor Illusion is something fake. The only exception is in Prestidigitation where it says
The fact that it would be visual only, very small (like a butterfly), and lasts 1 turn (instead of Minor Illusion's full minute) makes it very weak compared to Minor Illusion.
As a general rule I'd follow, anything that is a gray area, but covered more specifically under a different spell, is a different spell. One spell shouldn't replicate a spell of the same or higher level otherwise there is no reason for that other spell.
After reading over both spells, I would say that talking rocks are definitely not allowed. I guess the exact part of the sentence that Metamongoose listed:
I say that instantaneous and sensory effect are the key points. Having the rocks actually talk isn't a sensory effect as its the actual rocks talking. And I'd say that talking isn't instantaneous as words and sentences take more than an instant.
This would also trample on something stated in Minor Illusion
So that would violate my own general rule of not having a spell be another spell of the same level or higher.
Good luck and may you roll 20's when you need them and 1's when you need a laugh. - myself
I could see where someone would rule that a simple one or two word statement like "Play!" or "Come play!" might qualify as a short enough burst of sound for Prestidigitation. That being said, something more elaborate like a full on Shining scenario would be among the purview of Minor Illusion.
When I think of Prestidigitation, I think of Gandolf’s smoke rings. When I think of Minor Illusion, I think of Platform 9 3/4.
Expand as necessary
I see a lot of people claiming Prestidigitation can be used to make a key for a lock. In point of fact, Prestidigitation cannot create the key to the lock, because "the materials are extremely fragile" and "cannot be used as a tool." Keys and lockpicks are classified as tools in D&D, so that's out. You might be able to create a key, but you couldn't use it to open anything. And creating a copy of a particular key would likely require having studied it/an Int check or something.
In the example at the top, the "Talking rocks" could just have been the invisible spellcaster speaking.
Could you point me to where it says this?
"the materials are extremely fragile" and "cannot be used as a tool."
You assumed something about a community of thousands because of a single quote?Really?
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What I find more common is for people to use Minor Illusion to create moving or speaking illusions. I think the most common is something like, "I cast Minor Illusion to make it look like I've got a beard" or something like that. Like... yeah, I guess if you're standing perfectly still that's an option, but that's not really how most people treat it.
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Personally, I allow it (even though it buffs Minor Illusion up to god-tier levels) for the fun of it
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