I purchased the WGtE when it came out. Since then I have tracked down all the other earlier edition sources books. I did not need the source material from the new book. I pre-ordered it for the Artificer (Battle Smith). I could have waited and just purchased that separately. In after sight this is what I should have done. I wiuld have saved my money. From what we were told,, all that was supposed to be added to the WGtE was the Artificer to make it complete. They said some material might be updated. Nothing was said about the wholesale butchering of the material I paid for. The Warforged and changeling I grew to love are gone.Am I upset; definitely yes. More, the players in my Eberron campaigns are upset. No, we did not lose those character we already had, but the ability to use and/or change stuff with that older material, that we PAID for, was stolen from us.
This is not DDB's fault they have to follow WotC's line or potentially lose their license for D&D. This put the blame squarely on the shoulder's of WotC. In my opinion, they are culpable of Bait & Switch tactics, theft, and blackmail. I am hoping some lawuyer types see this and look into it. As this is not aimed at DDB, I do not expect this post to be deleted by them, but since WotC has proven themselves capable of criminal activity, they may force DDB to take actions.
I don't know how many people bought WGtE, but when you total the some of those sales the amount may become notable, even to WotC.
What they did with the Artificer is well with their rights unfortunately. It was always UA playtest material, but the material in the original WGtE was ours, bought and paid for. It should never have been taken away without at, the very least, showing that material's OWNERS what the proposed to give us instead and allowing us the RIGHT to say no. As it is, from what little I could find and understand legally they are in the wrong and should be helf accountable.
While you're perfectly entitled to your opinion about how updates to previously released content ought to be handled, wildly throwing out accusations of blackmail is going a bit far.
Since all wayfinders purchasers happened electronically and only on two platforms, I would hope that would be viable.
I can't imagine why it wouldn't be (or, at least, wouldn't have been). The storefronts have at the very least email addresses for all the purchasers. The easiest thing to do would've been to just have those storefronts issue discount codes for Rising before it was released. Now that sales have fully completed with Rising's release, it's become more complicated. Retroactively giving Rising purchasers part of the purchase price back is trickier -- still technically possible, but probably costing a lot more overhead to accomplish. It might be easier for them to tell DDB and dmsguild to extend offers of refund for Wayfinder's at this point for purchasers who wish to take advantage of that.
All I want is to be able to access the old content on D&D Beyond. I'll pay full price for the new stuff but I just want the option to turn on "Playtest" and get access to the old stuff.
All I want is to be able to access the old content on D&D Beyond. I'll pay full price for the new stuff but I just want the option to turn on "Playtest" and get access to the old stuff.
It’s one of the terms of WotC’s license with D&D Beyond that outdated/obsolete content be removed. You’re free to recreate it yourself as homebrew and use that.
Give me a single example of WotC ever removing non-UA material, material that has been PAID for, being removed and not just updated via errata.
The Aasimar in the DMG was never remove or completely replaced. A new variant was added. This is what should have been done with the material in this new book. The old variants should have remained. It was material that was BOUGHT and PAID for.
To the best of my knowledge, except with their website in 4E which they gave up on as a bad job, this has never happened before. UA material is playtest material. We don't pay for it so it is WotC;'s right to do as they please even if we don't agree. I personally think they are acting with extreme stupidity and shortsightedness on their part, but there is nothign new there.
What they are doing with WGtE is nothing short of criminal. They are using bait & switch tactics. They are using their monopoly on D&D licensing to force partners to remove materials which they put the time andd effort into in suppiort of WotC's UA material, then take away customer access. I don't agree with that, but legally they have the right. What they don't have the right to do is STEAL material that was bought and paid for by customers.
If people accept a refund on something bought as afar back as WGtE was, then you are saying WotC can do as they please and allowing them the RIGHT to do so again in the future.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Video games go through this every time something gets patched. You’re not entitled to compensation just because Blizzard nerfed your warlock. Please calm down.
Video games go through this every time something gets patched. You’re not entitled to compensation just because Blizzard nerfed your warlock. Please calm down.
Yeah, but its not a patch, the game does get Errata. This isn't that.
Using your example, it would be like removing the Warlock from the game entirely and people telling you to run your own server if you want play with it again. That's what the homebrew option is, much harder to do, but can be done.
I'm sure that if you paid for an expansion that removed your warlock, you would want your money back.
Everyone who paid for warforged still has warforged. Everyone who paid for changeling still has changeling. Etc. etc. The things people paid for have been changed to the finalized official versions, which is what everyone said would happen from the beginning. That is functionally a patch.
If you like the old version better, there is literally nothing stopping anyone from homebrewing it. This line of complaint is infantile.
Video games go through this every time something gets patched. You’re not entitled to compensation just because Blizzard nerfed your warlock. Please calm down.
This is NOT a video game. There is no caparison there.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Everyone who paid for warforged still has warforged. Everyone who paid for changeling still has changeling. Etc. etc. The things people paid for have been changed to the finalized official versions, which is what everyone said would happen from the beginning. That is functionally a patch.
If you like the old version better, there is literally nothing stopping anyone from homebrewing it. This line of complaint is infantile.
We paid for a particular version of the Warforged and Changeling. WotC has the right to put out new variantss but not to take away something that was paid for, and was actually implemented for use.
This is a first for WotC in %e. They did it back in 4E and, IMO, it was partially what lead to the downfall of 4E. It was certainly what caused me to leave 4E all together and switch over to Pathfinder at the time (and may be doing so againd with 5E since it seems to be going back to that type of activity on WotC's part).
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Its likely short of criminal. However I think someone could reasonably say that the new book is "New and Improved WGtE" since it is entirely inclusive of the content. Which was specifically mentioned that would not happen by Mearls. (Creative director of DnD) so yes, people have been misled, and if you mislead someone and money is involved, that means the only thing standing between it being criminal or not is a District Attorney who cares. And in this case, a small number of unhappy online purchasers scattered throughout various states will not have any amount of pressure on any specific DA to even consider bringing a case. So hurrah for being trivial enough not to raise a stink?
Everyone who paid for warforged still has warforged. Everyone who paid for changeling still has changeling. Etc. etc. The things people paid for have been changed to the finalized official versions, which is what everyone said would happen from the beginning. That is functionally a patch.
If you like the old version better, there is literally nothing stopping anyone from homebrewing it. This line of complaint is infantile.
People who paid for the Warforged Subraces do not have those Subraces. That is money lost, each subrace was $1.99 USD.
Why should I have to homebrew something that I already paid for? Something that was already in the system, that is now gated away because of WotC policy.
All DDBeyond has to do to make it right is to restore access to the older content, which hopefully they will do.
Lastly, just because you aren't upset doesn't mean we have to calm down. We want to be heard, that's is why we are complaining.
Its likely short of criminal. However I think someone could reasonably say that the new book is "New and Improved WGtE" since it is entirely inclusive of the content. Which was specifically mentioned that would not happen by Mearls. (Creative director of DnD) so yes, people have been misled, and if you mislead someone and money is involved, that means the only thing standing between it being criminal or not is a District Attorney who cares. And in this case, a small number of unhappy online purchasers scattered throughout various states will not have any amount of pressure on any specific DA to even consider bringing a case. So hurrah for being trivial enough not to raise a stink?
I'm genuinely curious what crime you think was committed.
Everyone who paid for warforged still has warforged. Everyone who paid for changeling still has changeling. Etc. etc. The things people paid for have been changed to the finalized official versions, which is what everyone said would happen from the beginning. That is functionally a patch.
If you like the old version better, there is literally nothing stopping anyone from homebrewing it. This line of complaint is infantile.
People who paid for the Warforged Subraces do not have those Subraces. That is money lost, each subrace was $1.99 USD.
Why should I have to homebrew something that I already paid for? Something that was already in the system, that is now gated away because of WotC policy.
All DDBeyond has to do to make it right is to restore access to the older content, which hopefully they will do.
Lastly, just because you aren't upset doesn't mean we have to calm down. We want to be heard, that's is why we are complaining.
The specific monetary question of someone having purchased specific subraces that no longer exist (or feats, as with the Greater Dragonmark) is a separate concern, and that's one I absolutely agree is not good. They never should have been sold individually while still in playtest. I don't know what the appropriate solution to that problem might look like; maybe giving additional credit toward other subraces/feats? I don't know.
But D&D Beyond can't restore access to the UA versions of the races, because their license with WotC prohibits it. This is fine. It makes sense that Wizards wouldn't want outdated and obsolete content on the official digital toolset for the game. But you can just homebrew it, and the problem is solved. This takes all of three minutes, so forgive me if I find "why should I have to do it" unconvincing. We all bought WGtE with the understanding that anything in it could change. If we want to change something back, it's our responsibility to do so, and we are 100% able to, very easily.
And I wasn't specifically addressing you when I said to calm down; the last two posts of yours I've interacted with have already been quite calm. But others have been in utter histrionics.
Video games go through this every time something gets patched. You’re not entitled to compensation just because Blizzard nerfed your warlock. Please calm down.
This is NOT a video game. There is no caparison there.
I would sincerely love to hear your reasoning on why the medium of the game makes a lick of difference..
Its likely short of criminal. However I think someone could reasonably say that the new book is "New and Improved WGtE" since it is entirely inclusive of the content. Which was specifically mentioned that would not happen by Mearls. (Creative director of DnD) so yes, people have been misled, and if you mislead someone and money is involved, that means the only thing standing between it being criminal or not is a District Attorney who cares. And in this case, a small number of unhappy online purchasers scattered throughout various states will not have any amount of pressure on any specific DA to even consider bringing a case. So hurrah for being trivial enough not to raise a stink?
I'm genuinely curious what crime you think was committed.
However, there is no legal recourse since I agreed to the Terms of Service whenever something was bought from DDBeyond. So even if a crime was committed there will be no refund or reimbursement. That's the way it is.
Now to get back to the original reason of the post. I have a question. Did anyone just buy E:RftLW? and if you did, did it unlock the Feats and Backrounds in WGtE? This will help future customer decide what to buy.
§1125. False designations of origin, false descriptions, and dilution forbidden(a) Civil action
(1) Any person who, on or in connection with any goods or services, or any container for goods, uses in commerce any word, term, name, symbol, or device, or any combination thereof, or any false designation of origin, false or misleading description of fact, or false or misleading representation of fact, which—
(A) is likely to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive as to the affiliation, connection, or association of such person with another person, or as to the origin, sponsorship, or approval of his or her goods, services, or commercial activities by another person, or
(B) in commercial advertising or promotion, misrepresents the nature, characteristics, qualities, or geographic origin of his or her or another person's goods, services, or commercial activities,
shall be liable in a civil action by any person who believes that he or she is or is likely to be damaged by such act.
No.
This is not a criminal law violation. This is not a crime. This may be against the law but is not a crime. It clearly states you shall be liable in a civil action. That makes it a civil law violation not a criminal law violation.
You can sue, but no one is going to jail for this.
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While you're perfectly entitled to your opinion about how updates to previously released content ought to be handled, wildly throwing out accusations of blackmail is going a bit far.
I can't imagine why it wouldn't be (or, at least, wouldn't have been). The storefronts have at the very least email addresses for all the purchasers. The easiest thing to do would've been to just have those storefronts issue discount codes for Rising before it was released. Now that sales have fully completed with Rising's release, it's become more complicated. Retroactively giving Rising purchasers part of the purchase price back is trickier -- still technically possible, but probably costing a lot more overhead to accomplish. It might be easier for them to tell DDB and dmsguild to extend offers of refund for Wayfinder's at this point for purchasers who wish to take advantage of that.
But it accessible in D&D Beyond? I can't seem to find it.
All I want is to be able to access the old content on D&D Beyond. I'll pay full price for the new stuff but I just want the option to turn on "Playtest" and get access to the old stuff.
It’s one of the terms of WotC’s license with D&D Beyond that outdated/obsolete content be removed. You’re free to recreate it yourself as homebrew and use that.
Give me a single example of WotC ever removing non-UA material, material that has been PAID for, being removed and not just updated via errata.
The Aasimar in the DMG was never remove or completely replaced. A new variant was added. This is what should have been done with the material in this new book. The old variants should have remained. It was material that was BOUGHT and PAID for.
To the best of my knowledge, except with their website in 4E which they gave up on as a bad job, this has never happened before. UA material is playtest material. We don't pay for it so it is WotC;'s right to do as they please even if we don't agree. I personally think they are acting with extreme stupidity and shortsightedness on their part, but there is nothign new there.
What they are doing with WGtE is nothing short of criminal. They are using bait & switch tactics. They are using their monopoly on D&D licensing to force partners to remove materials which they put the time andd effort into in suppiort of WotC's UA material, then take away customer access. I don't agree with that, but legally they have the right. What they don't have the right to do is STEAL material that was bought and paid for by customers.
If people accept a refund on something bought as afar back as WGtE was, then you are saying WotC can do as they please and allowing them the RIGHT to do so again in the future.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Video games go through this every time something gets patched. You’re not entitled to compensation just because Blizzard nerfed your warlock. Please calm down.
Yeah, but its not a patch, the game does get Errata. This isn't that.
Using your example, it would be like removing the Warlock from the game entirely and people telling you to run your own server if you want play with it again. That's what the homebrew option is, much harder to do, but can be done.
I'm sure that if you paid for an expansion that removed your warlock, you would want your money back.
Everyone who paid for warforged still has warforged. Everyone who paid for changeling still has changeling. Etc. etc. The things people paid for have been changed to the finalized official versions, which is what everyone said would happen from the beginning. That is functionally a patch.
If you like the old version better, there is literally nothing stopping anyone from homebrewing it. This line of complaint is infantile.
This is NOT a video game. There is no caparison there.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
We paid for a particular version of the Warforged and Changeling. WotC has the right to put out new variantss but not to take away something that was paid for, and was actually implemented for use.
This is a first for WotC in %e. They did it back in 4E and, IMO, it was partially what lead to the downfall of 4E. It was certainly what caused me to leave 4E all together and switch over to Pathfinder at the time (and may be doing so againd with 5E since it seems to be going back to that type of activity on WotC's part).
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
WotC told everyone that they would update the WFGtE to match the official version. That is what happened.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
It is far short of criminal.
Its likely short of criminal. However I think someone could reasonably say that the new book is "New and Improved WGtE" since it is entirely inclusive of the content. Which was specifically mentioned that would not happen by Mearls. (Creative director of DnD) so yes, people have been misled, and if you mislead someone and money is involved, that means the only thing standing between it being criminal or not is a District Attorney who cares. And in this case, a small number of unhappy online purchasers scattered throughout various states will not have any amount of pressure on any specific DA to even consider bringing a case. So hurrah for being trivial enough not to raise a stink?
People who paid for the Warforged Subraces do not have those Subraces. That is money lost, each subrace was $1.99 USD.
Why should I have to homebrew something that I already paid for? Something that was already in the system, that is now gated away because of WotC policy.
All DDBeyond has to do to make it right is to restore access to the older content, which hopefully they will do.
Lastly, just because you aren't upset doesn't mean we have to calm down. We want to be heard, that's is why we are complaining.
I'm genuinely curious what crime you think was committed.
The specific monetary question of someone having purchased specific subraces that no longer exist (or feats, as with the Greater Dragonmark) is a separate concern, and that's one I absolutely agree is not good. They never should have been sold individually while still in playtest. I don't know what the appropriate solution to that problem might look like; maybe giving additional credit toward other subraces/feats? I don't know.
But D&D Beyond can't restore access to the UA versions of the races, because their license with WotC prohibits it. This is fine. It makes sense that Wizards wouldn't want outdated and obsolete content on the official digital toolset for the game. But you can just homebrew it, and the problem is solved. This takes all of three minutes, so forgive me if I find "why should I have to do it" unconvincing. We all bought WGtE with the understanding that anything in it could change. If we want to change something back, it's our responsibility to do so, and we are 100% able to, very easily.
And I wasn't specifically addressing you when I said to calm down; the last two posts of yours I've interacted with have already been quite calm. But others have been in utter histrionics.
I would sincerely love to hear your reasoning on why the medium of the game makes a lick of difference..
Based on what you quoted, I'm guessing they are implying something like false pretenses or misrepresentation
However, there is no legal recourse since I agreed to the Terms of Service whenever something was bought from DDBeyond. So even if a crime was committed there will be no refund or reimbursement. That's the way it is.
Now to get back to the original reason of the post. I have a question. Did anyone just buy E:RftLW? and if you did, did it unlock the Feats and Backrounds in WGtE? This will help future customer decide what to buy.
No.
This is not a criminal law violation. This is not a crime. This may be against the law but is not a crime. It clearly states you shall be liable in a civil action. That makes it a civil law violation not a criminal law violation.
You can sue, but no one is going to jail for this.