Hey all! I just wanted to know what are people general feelings towards chaotic characters and/or players? I am talking stuff like the truly chaotic to murder hobo chaotic and anything in between. What are your thoughts on them as well how do you roll with it or deal with it?
Generally, CG characters are fine-ish. Worst case scenario, they are militant PETA or eco terrorists. "I only help animals."
CN can be okay if played right, but too often they are basically evil, but in denial about it. Often the alignment of the player who was told they couldn't be evil. Murder hobos, stealing from the party, selling out or changing sides, basically only acting in what benefits the character the most in the short term. "I'm not evil, just selfish." Also "I stab the character that caught me stealing. Do I get advantage?"
CE is all the worst things about CN but not subtle or sorry about it. "It's what my character would do." If possible, don't play with CE characters.
CN everyone thinks is the murderhobo, but that is CE. I like playing CN as the person you cares about the party, but will put their welfare above the rest of the party's.
CE is the worst possible alignment, they are the true murderhobos and everything they do causes more anarchy and destruction. I never play with CE characters in my party.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Who even needs alignment? My most recent character that I've actually played can be described as following each alignment at separate times.
I typically think of chaotic characters as major advocates for freedom.
CG is good, this is the embodiment of freedom for all, as long as it doesn't hurt others and themselves.
CN is hard, I tend to think of it as wanting not to have your own freedoms suppressed. You want liberty, but mainly for yourself.
CN is you only care about yourself, you tend to do anything to protect yourself. I've always wanted to play one of these characters, but most DMs tend to be wary of evil characters, especially chaotic evil characters.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I agree with the other comments. Though, I will say I enjoy my CN ranger. He was my first self-built PC and I built him all kinds of backstory, but no real personality. Early on in his adventuring, he was in the Yawning Portal and the DM was trying to hook us into a combat by narrating some barfight starting near us. He asked “what do you do?” And I was like “My CN is kicking in and he sits and watches them fight.” And I sat that one out, drinking my ale while the other players defended the barkeep’s property or stood up to a bully, or whatever it was. It felt like the first real in-character decision I made for him, and it was based purely on alignment, and it felt good. (He’s since developed a real personality throughout his experiences.) It didn’t screw over the other players, as no one was going to get killed in a barfight. However, it might make DMing harder for him, because his neutrality could neutralize plot hooks. But OOC as a player, I’m more LG and try to be gracious to the DM and find a reason for my character to invest in the plot despite his neutrality.
CG is pretty traditional. "Good guy that doesn't follow the rules." Easy campaign fodder.
CE is a bad idea. Leads to murderhoboness, backstabbing the party.
CN can go either way depending on how the player does it.I'm playing a CN rogue in a campaign right now - the standard "want fame and fortune" thief. More likely to join a thieves' guild rather than work with the city guard. Not particularly murderhobo-y and I certainly wouldn't betray my party, they're nice. I wouldn't do a tough quest for no reward either, though. (But, well, it's D&D - there's always the promise of loot, so it's not like it's tough to motivate the guy.)
Chaotic (aside from evil) played well is fine. Han Solo is the classic example—he starts as Chaotic Neutral and ends up Chaotic Good. He follows his own system and doesn't play by the rules, but he's not crazy or disruptive. Other examples include Robin Hood (Chaotic Good) and Jack Sparrow (Chaotic Neutral). Great characters.
Unfortunately, a lot of people choose chaotic alignments so they don't have to justify their decisions or can act lolrandom. (Chaotic doesn't mean insane, guys.) Can't stand these players, and I've seen way too many of them. I guess the real question is, does the character fit within a mostly serious universe (picture them in Star Wars, for example) and not come off as crazy? If not, they shouldn't be in my game either.
I like it when 'Chaotic' and 'Lawful' refers more to the "Order vs Chaos" side of things rather than the "don't care about shit". For example, many of the early special forces (SAS, LRDG, Popski's Private Army, Mad Jack Churchill) didn't give a damn about "rules" but that didn't mean they messed things up for fun. You could very much argue for that being a "Chaotic" behaviour.
That said, my main point when it comes to playing, and playing with, chaotic characters is that no matter how chaotic they are and how little they care for established norms or "society, man!" is that they should be able to play well with the rest of the party. In my opinion, there are no alignments that are unable to function in a group. To illustrate:
-Chaotic Good: Robin Hood. Doesn't care about society's rules but is still a nice chap. Fairly obvious.
- Chaotic Neutral: Bronn of the Blackwater. Only (mostly) cares about himself and would probably do anything to get a nice castle or two. Still cares about his friends and gives them every opportunity to get out of trouble, even when he is the trouble.
- Chaotic Evil: I'm gonna take an easy one and use Rick Sanchez as an example. A completely selfish and hedonistic wanker who doesn't mind endangering anything or anyone for his own personal gain. That said, still a great guy at parties and (at least sometimes) tries do what's right and help others.
I understand the CN is fine if played right, what I think alot of people don't understand or forget when they play CN is that you shouldn't interrupt the flow of the story/session (once in a while is fine imo). That how my poor tabaxi bardic gunslinger ended up as the guildmaster of The Guild of Thevious Intent (think Theives guild from Oblivion). Also how he ended up in a relationship with a LE assassin, and it is NOT how I intended that relationship to be and lastly started a civil war in a city nation by smuggling the wrong artifact. But I digress, all of those came around because I did something chaotic but I didn't interrupt or ruin the session. We briefly had (and I mean BRIEFLY) another CN player that joined our table, and was constantly interrupting the session. An example was we went to the library to research how to take care of a minor necromancer, its strengths and weaknesses and such. I decided I would go talk/woo with the librarian to see if she would let me into the forbidden section (Because I was sure that a Tome of Leadership and Influence was under lock and key there based on the Duke and librarian had hinted at) So while my party was researching how to kill the baddie, and I was failing every performance and persuasion check against the librarian, our new CN guy decided that he was going to throw books around and intimidate the guards/librarion (ruining my already non existent chances at that Tome). A little backstory this guys was a sort of barbarian, he wanted to play an Incan themed warrior but just played as a barbarian. He ended just about TPK us on the town guards before we turned is murdo hobo character into the city guard... and we lost our bounty because of it.
I'm currently playing a CN rogue/bard in the campaign I'm in. I like the freedom it gives. You have a true personal choice to any decision you make not constricted by a "system" of morals.
Like for example if some evil person were to pick on a kid and Rob him/her I wouldn't have to depend on the law. I could approach said child give them two coins a gold piece and a copper, point to the copper and say along the lines trade me. Then I could tell him/her to hold my beer (gear not needed) and stealth go administer "justice" as I saw fit on the situation come back to the child and give back for free or the gold coin what was taken.
In this instance to me at least I am neither good nor evil because I do elements of both in my actions. I think the problem of CN in particular is a lack of balance to a degree in execution of ideals. Oftentimes it is used to heavily towards one side of the scale.
To throw a Game of Thrones reference I see my character along the lines of Jaqen Haqar (probably spelling lol) what I do isn't solely good or evil but a combination of both. I can have a value system but it is not restricted by actions.
Now I just have to do some work on how I can set up a "assassin's guild" and bring forth a interpretation of my ideals in the campaign. 😎
I'm currently playing a CN rogue/bard in the campaign I'm in. I like the freedom it gives. You have a true personal choice to any decision you make not constricted by a "system" of morals.
Like for example if some evil person were to pick on a kid and Rob him/her I wouldn't have to depend on the law. I could approach said child give them two coins a gold piece and a copper, point to the copper and say along the lines trade me. Then I could tell him/her to hold my beer (gear not needed) and stealth go administer "justice" as I saw fit on the situation come back to the child and give back for free or the gold coin what was taken.
In this instance to me at least I am neither good nor evil because I do elements of both in my actions. I think the problem of CN in particular is a lack of balance to a degree in execution of ideals. Oftentimes it is used to heavily towards one side of the scale.
To throw a Game of Thrones reference I see my character along the lines of Jaqen Haqar (probably spelling lol) what I do isn't solely good or evil but a combination of both. I can have a value system but it is not restricted by actions.
Now I just have to do some work on how I can set up a "assassin's guild" and bring forth a interpretation of my ideals in the campaign. 😎
Jaqen Hghar is anything but chaotic. Everything they do is ruled by strict codes and guidelines. Remember, he felt bound to kill himself when Arya named him. That puts him squarely in lawful territory.
Also not sure why a neutral character would have to go through all those loops hoops to help a kid that got mugged.
Any alignment can be played where everyone has fun. I've seen CE where everyone is having a great time with it, but she's the one that makes it fun for the campaign.Definitely CE, though. Her character can be disruptive but disruptive in a way that will take a situation and turn it funny. She chooses when her character's CE nature is appropriate for everyone's enjoyment. That's how she plays CE.
I've heard/read horror stories where players use their alignment to dominate the game and force actions upon the other players with the excuse that it's what their character would do. That's on the player, not the character sheet.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Yeah for the record I think Jaqen is definitely lawful neutral, not chaotic. All his actions are based around a code that he doesn't break.
To me where I find him more along the lines of neutral is that while there are system's in place by the faceless men they don't take sides. They are just as likely to take a contract from a "good side" as well as a "bad side" and fulfill what is agreed upon. Maybe I should have been clearer in my explanation so as not to confuse.
I understand the CN is fine if played right, what I think alot of people don't understand or forget when they play CN is that you shouldn't interrupt the flow of the story/session (once in a while is fine imo).
This. There's a difference between playing a believably chaotic character and just being disruptive. In my last game, we had a CN Wild Magic Sorcerer who had received permission from the DM to roll on the wild magic surge table EVERY TIME he cast anything. His character ended up taking up more than half of the overall campaign time doing things like bursting into flames, casting 'light' on a goblin liver and claiming it was a bomb, tying two daggers together with 10' of rope and trying to use that as a weapon, and forcing the rest of the party to duck for cover. It was very, very funny but it got super frustrating and nobody else got much actual RP time in.
Admittedly it was at least partly the DM's fault for not reining him in (the DM also has a history of playing disruptive CN characters), but it's just not cool to effectively make yourself the protagonist of the campaign AND turn it into a sitcom by taking up an unfair share of 'screen time' for your wacky hijinx.
Chaotic is a character that doesn't like rules and seeks to abolish anything that requires conformity.
Good is good. Good is respect for others right to exist and keep their stuff even if the collective would like to have their stuff or just be better of without them around.
Evil is evil. Others don't have any right to exist or to keep their stuff. If I want their stuff I can take it, so long as I don't think I will be overpowered and punished for doing that. If they get in my way or just annoy me, I also have the right to stop them even if that means killing them. I just need to watch out that nobody decides to kill me first.
Neutral is a respect for others but not so much if the collective needs their stuff or just wants them to go away.
Chaotic good = You have a right to live and so do I. Don't tell me what to do and stay away from my stuff, and I'll do the same for you.
Chaotic Neutral = Don't tell me what to do and don't ask me to share my stuff. If someone hassles you for your stuff I may well come over there and tell them to go piss off.
Chaotic Evil = Might Makes Right. You don't agree? Well I don't give a flip so talk to the hand!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I feel like the way people play it isn't right. The stereotype for CN should be closer to what CE is, and the CE stereotype shouldn't be a thing. Just because there isn't much rhyme or reason doesn't mean you can be a straight murder hobo, you can still have a reason to do things, just that you'll almost always go down the evilest route to things.
Hey all! I just wanted to know what are people general feelings towards chaotic characters and/or players? I am talking stuff like the truly chaotic to murder hobo chaotic and anything in between. What are your thoughts on them as well how do you roll with it or deal with it?
Generally, CG characters are fine-ish. Worst case scenario, they are militant PETA or eco terrorists. "I only help animals."
CN can be okay if played right, but too often they are basically evil, but in denial about it. Often the alignment of the player who was told they couldn't be evil. Murder hobos, stealing from the party, selling out or changing sides, basically only acting in what benefits the character the most in the short term. "I'm not evil, just selfish." Also "I stab the character that caught me stealing. Do I get advantage?"
CE is all the worst things about CN but not subtle or sorry about it. "It's what my character would do." If possible, don't play with CE characters.
CG is fine, I enjoy playing it.
CN everyone thinks is the murderhobo, but that is CE. I like playing CN as the person you cares about the party, but will put their welfare above the rest of the party's.
CE is the worst possible alignment, they are the true murderhobos and everything they do causes more anarchy and destruction. I never play with CE characters in my party.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
I think CG is a little over played. It seems to be the most prominent in normal campaigns.
CN is cool, a lot of characters could use it. It blankets most characters.
CE is my favorite. Not many people seem to play it, it's what I usually play.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
Who even needs alignment? My most recent character that I've actually played can be described as following each alignment at separate times.
I typically think of chaotic characters as major advocates for freedom.
CG is good, this is the embodiment of freedom for all, as long as it doesn't hurt others and themselves.
CN is hard, I tend to think of it as wanting not to have your own freedoms suppressed. You want liberty, but mainly for yourself.
CN is you only care about yourself, you tend to do anything to protect yourself. I've always wanted to play one of these characters, but most DMs tend to be wary of evil characters, especially chaotic evil characters.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I agree with the other comments. Though, I will say I enjoy my CN ranger. He was my first self-built PC and I built him all kinds of backstory, but no real personality. Early on in his adventuring, he was in the Yawning Portal and the DM was trying to hook us into a combat by narrating some barfight starting near us. He asked “what do you do?” And I was like “My CN is kicking in and he sits and watches them fight.” And I sat that one out, drinking my ale while the other players defended the barkeep’s property or stood up to a bully, or whatever it was. It felt like the first real in-character decision I made for him, and it was based purely on alignment, and it felt good. (He’s since developed a real personality throughout his experiences.) It didn’t screw over the other players, as no one was going to get killed in a barfight. However, it might make DMing harder for him, because his neutrality could neutralize plot hooks. But OOC as a player, I’m more LG and try to be gracious to the DM and find a reason for my character to invest in the plot despite his neutrality.
CG is pretty traditional. "Good guy that doesn't follow the rules." Easy campaign fodder.
CE is a bad idea. Leads to murderhoboness, backstabbing the party.
CN can go either way depending on how the player does it.I'm playing a CN rogue in a campaign right now - the standard "want fame and fortune" thief. More likely to join a thieves' guild rather than work with the city guard. Not particularly murderhobo-y and I certainly wouldn't betray my party, they're nice. I wouldn't do a tough quest for no reward either, though. (But, well, it's D&D - there's always the promise of loot, so it's not like it's tough to motivate the guy.)
Chaotic (aside from evil) played well is fine. Han Solo is the classic example—he starts as Chaotic Neutral and ends up Chaotic Good. He follows his own system and doesn't play by the rules, but he's not crazy or disruptive. Other examples include Robin Hood (Chaotic Good) and Jack Sparrow (Chaotic Neutral). Great characters.
Unfortunately, a lot of people choose chaotic alignments so they don't have to justify their decisions or can act lolrandom. (Chaotic doesn't mean insane, guys.) Can't stand these players, and I've seen way too many of them. I guess the real question is, does the character fit within a mostly serious universe (picture them in Star Wars, for example) and not come off as crazy? If not, they shouldn't be in my game either.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
I like it when 'Chaotic' and 'Lawful' refers more to the "Order vs Chaos" side of things rather than the "don't care about shit". For example, many of the early special forces (SAS, LRDG, Popski's Private Army, Mad Jack Churchill) didn't give a damn about "rules" but that didn't mean they messed things up for fun. You could very much argue for that being a "Chaotic" behaviour.
That said, my main point when it comes to playing, and playing with, chaotic characters is that no matter how chaotic they are and how little they care for established norms or "society, man!" is that they should be able to play well with the rest of the party. In my opinion, there are no alignments that are unable to function in a group. To illustrate:
-Chaotic Good: Robin Hood. Doesn't care about society's rules but is still a nice chap. Fairly obvious.
- Chaotic Neutral: Bronn of the Blackwater. Only (mostly) cares about himself and would probably do anything to get a nice castle or two. Still cares about his friends and gives them every opportunity to get out of trouble, even when he is the trouble.
- Chaotic Evil: I'm gonna take an easy one and use Rick Sanchez as an example. A completely selfish and hedonistic wanker who doesn't mind endangering anything or anyone for his own personal gain. That said, still a great guy at parties and (at least sometimes) tries do what's right and help others.
I understand the CN is fine if played right, what I think alot of people don't understand or forget when they play CN is that you shouldn't interrupt the flow of the story/session (once in a while is fine imo). That how my poor tabaxi bardic gunslinger ended up as the guildmaster of The Guild of Thevious Intent (think Theives guild from Oblivion). Also how he ended up in a relationship with a LE assassin, and it is NOT how I intended that relationship to be and lastly started a civil war in a city nation by smuggling the wrong artifact. But I digress, all of those came around because I did something chaotic but I didn't interrupt or ruin the session. We briefly had (and I mean BRIEFLY) another CN player that joined our table, and was constantly interrupting the session. An example was we went to the library to research how to take care of a minor necromancer, its strengths and weaknesses and such. I decided I would go talk/woo with the librarian to see if she would let me into the forbidden section (Because I was sure that a Tome of Leadership and Influence was under lock and key there based on the Duke and librarian had hinted at) So while my party was researching how to kill the baddie, and I was failing every performance and persuasion check against the librarian, our new CN guy decided that he was going to throw books around and intimidate the guards/librarion (ruining my already non existent chances at that Tome). A little backstory this guys was a sort of barbarian, he wanted to play an Incan themed warrior but just played as a barbarian. He ended just about TPK us on the town guards before we turned is murdo hobo character into the city guard... and we lost our bounty because of it.
@Lostwhilefishing, Ser Bronn (show, not books) is definitely one of the best examples of Chaotic Neutral played right! Thanks for bringing him up.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
I'm currently playing a CN rogue/bard in the campaign I'm in. I like the freedom it gives. You have a true personal choice to any decision you make not constricted by a "system" of morals.
Like for example if some evil person were to pick on a kid and Rob him/her I wouldn't have to depend on the law. I could approach said child give them two coins a gold piece and a copper, point to the copper and say along the lines trade me. Then I could tell him/her to hold my beer (gear not needed) and stealth go administer "justice" as I saw fit on the situation come back to the child and give back for free or the gold coin what was taken.
In this instance to me at least I am neither good nor evil because I do elements of both in my actions. I think the problem of CN in particular is a lack of balance to a degree in execution of ideals. Oftentimes it is used to heavily towards one side of the scale.
To throw a Game of Thrones reference I see my character along the lines of Jaqen Haqar (probably spelling lol) what I do isn't solely good or evil but a combination of both. I can have a value system but it is not restricted by actions.
Now I just have to do some work on how I can set up a "assassin's guild" and bring forth a interpretation of my ideals in the campaign. 😎
Jaqen Hghar is anything but chaotic. Everything they do is ruled by strict codes and guidelines. Remember, he felt bound to kill himself when Arya named him. That puts him squarely in lawful territory.
Also not sure why a neutral character would have to go through all those loops hoops to help a kid that got mugged.
It's not the character sheet. It's the player.
Any alignment can be played where everyone has fun. I've seen CE where everyone is having a great time with it, but she's the one that makes it fun for the campaign.Definitely CE, though. Her character can be disruptive but disruptive in a way that will take a situation and turn it funny. She chooses when her character's CE nature is appropriate for everyone's enjoyment. That's how she plays CE.
I've heard/read horror stories where players use their alignment to dominate the game and force actions upon the other players with the excuse that it's what their character would do. That's on the player, not the character sheet.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Yeah for the record I think Jaqen is definitely lawful neutral, not chaotic. All his actions are based around a code that he doesn't break.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
To me where I find him more along the lines of neutral is that while there are system's in place by the faceless men they don't take sides. They are just as likely to take a contract from a "good side" as well as a "bad side" and fulfill what is agreed upon. Maybe I should have been clearer in my explanation so as not to confuse.
This. There's a difference between playing a believably chaotic character and just being disruptive. In my last game, we had a CN Wild Magic Sorcerer who had received permission from the DM to roll on the wild magic surge table EVERY TIME he cast anything. His character ended up taking up more than half of the overall campaign time doing things like bursting into flames, casting 'light' on a goblin liver and claiming it was a bomb, tying two daggers together with 10' of rope and trying to use that as a weapon, and forcing the rest of the party to duck for cover. It was very, very funny but it got super frustrating and nobody else got much actual RP time in.
Admittedly it was at least partly the DM's fault for not reining him in (the DM also has a history of playing disruptive CN characters), but it's just not cool to effectively make yourself the protagonist of the campaign AND turn it into a sitcom by taking up an unfair share of 'screen time' for your wacky hijinx.
Don’t play with dipsticks.
Chaotic is a character that doesn't like rules and seeks to abolish anything that requires conformity.
Good is good. Good is respect for others right to exist and keep their stuff even if the collective would like to have their stuff or just be better of without them around.
Evil is evil. Others don't have any right to exist or to keep their stuff. If I want their stuff I can take it, so long as I don't think I will be overpowered and punished for doing that. If they get in my way or just annoy me, I also have the right to stop them even if that means killing them. I just need to watch out that nobody decides to kill me first.
Neutral is a respect for others but not so much if the collective needs their stuff or just wants them to go away.
Chaotic good = You have a right to live and so do I. Don't tell me what to do and stay away from my stuff, and I'll do the same for you.
Chaotic Neutral = Don't tell me what to do and don't ask me to share my stuff. If someone hassles you for your stuff I may well come over there and tell them to go piss off.
Chaotic Evil = Might Makes Right. You don't agree? Well I don't give a flip so talk to the hand!
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
So many people seem to hate CE.
I feel like the way people play it isn't right. The stereotype for CN should be closer to what CE is, and the CE stereotype shouldn't be a thing. Just because there isn't much rhyme or reason doesn't mean you can be a straight murder hobo, you can still have a reason to do things, just that you'll almost always go down the evilest route to things.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.