Not sure if this is along the same lines of the general discussion, but here goes. I recently created a character based off of the Khajiit from Skyrim. It’s a blast using different races and species for your character! Because of the way I made him (ridiculous persuasion modifier), I can just ask someone for something of their’s and they just straight off give it to me!
Per RAW, assuming a critter starts out as 'indifferent', a roll of 20+ will cause them to accept 'minor risk or sacrifice'. That's enough to mooch off of people, but not enough to get anything the owner particularly values.
I think I completely forgot to mention that the campaign that I’m currently in is run by someone I know and we are sort of doing it a bit more easy going. More exceptions and more freedom with actions and abilities. But yeah, I totally agree with what you are saying. If I was in a standard D&D campaign the way we are playing wouldn’t go past the DM.
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Do’ Taba the Honest Merchant
Malwyn the Barkeeper of The Tales of Adventurers’ Tavern
There is a lot of (hopefully unconscious) racism in Tolkien and other early fantasy writers. We just need to be aware of this and sensitive to its implications when we’re playing or running a game in 2020.
No, i don't care about "sensitive" peoples. I don't want my fantasy world to be a big melting pot of happy and friendly "races".
Not being/caring about the sensitive shows privilege and a lack of empathy. No one is going to force you to have nice orcs, but be aware that some people do like them and want to be inclusive.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I’ve never really dabbled in Magic in any of my games. Does anyone have any suggestions on Races, Background, etc. I hope to make a character who uses magic regularly but it isn’t the main feature of this character. If not any suggestions on the previous, does anyone have a suggestion on what rulebook should I use for playing D&D, aside from the Beginner’s Handbook? sorry I just realized that this post is totally in the wrong conversation, oops.
Orcs and drow should not be demonized as “the other.” They’re both perfectly legit cultures and shouldn’t be automatically considered evil because they’re nocturnal or have darker skin.
That being said, of course no one’s gonna force you to do that in your game, but some people you play with might feel offended or excluded if you use racial stereotypes for nonhuman cultures.
I’ve never really dabbled in Magic in any of my games. Does anyone have any suggestions on Races, Background, etc. I hope to make a character who uses magic regularly but it isn’t the main feature of this character. If not any suggestions on the previous, does anyone have a suggestion on what rulebook should I use for playing D&D, aside from the Beginner’s Handbook? sorry I just realized that this post is totally in the wrong conversation, oops.
The basic rules are actually an excellent place to start. It is a fairly easy walk through the steps of character generation. Using those steps you can create a character that uses a lot or a little magic.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I’ve never really dabbled in Magic in any of my games. Does anyone have any suggestions on Races, Background, etc. I hope to make a character who uses magic regularly but it isn’t the main feature of this character. If not any suggestions on the previous, does anyone have a suggestion on what rulebook should I use for playing D&D, aside from the Beginner’s Handbook? sorry I just realized that this post is totally in the wrong conversation, oops.
You’ll need the Player’s Handbook 5e to create a character. Elves are good if you want a fighter or rogue who also multiclasses as one of the arcane caster types (wizard, sorcerer or warlock). Ranger and Druid is also a good combo for an elf, and Dragonborn is good if you want to multiclass as an arcane caster and something else (especially sorcerer or warlock with a high CHA bonus).
On the original problem, one thing I've been contemplating: why should be a demihuman be a genetic thing at all? For that matter, why should it even be a thing that is by birth? It actually causes problems, because if you've got a complete culture, well, whether or not orcs are all evil, where are all the orc commoners that any functional society would need?
On the other hand, if being an orc is an acquired property (say, it's a blessing granted to selected initiates of Gruumsh), it's totally possible to have 100% of orcs be warriors of some sort or another, because the blessing requires being a warrior, or is not wasted on non-warriors. Depending on what's required to acquire and keep this blessing, you can also justify all orcs being within 1 alignment step of their patron.
Other than that, I'd probably just adjust the defining features of orcs so they don't intelligibly correspond to any identifiable human ethnicity (probably a color transform along the blue or green axis, or possibly a hue rotation, rather than a change in brightness, along with deformations such as enlarged canines). Half-orcs can still exist, but it's not a race, it's a supernatural mark (and, since half-orcs are not that way by choice, does not have any alignment implications).
On the original problem, one thing I've been contemplating: why should be a demihuman be a genetic thing at all? For that matter, why should it even be a thing that is by birth? It actually causes problems, because if you've got a complete culture, well, whether or not orcs are all evil, where are all the orc commoners that any functional society would need?
On the other hand, if being an orc is an acquired property (say, it's a blessing granted to selected initiates of Gruumsh), it's totally possible to have 100% of orcs be warriors of some sort or another, because the blessing requires being a warrior, or is not wasted on non-warriors. Depending on what's required to acquire and keep this blessing, you can also justify all orcs being within 1 alignment step of their patron.
Other than that, I'd probably just adjust the defining features of orcs so they don't intelligibly correspond to any identifiable human ethnicity (probably a color transform along the blue or green axis, or possibly a hue rotation, rather than a change in brightness, along with deformations such as enlarged canines). Half-orcs can still exist, but it's not a race, it's a supernatural mark (and, since half-orcs are not that way by choice, does not have any alignment implications).
I go the other way. Typical orc stats are those of Orc Commoners. There are also levelled orcs above and beyond that base.
I wasn't talking about stats. The point is, for every warrior in a group, there's going to be a whole bunch of people with noncombatant jobs, such as farmer, ditch digger, cook, carpenter, etc...
I go the other way. Typical orc stats are those of Orc Commoners. There are also levelled orcs above and beyond that base.
I wasn't talking about stats. The point is, for every warrior in a group, there's going to be a whole bunch of people with noncombatant jobs, such as farmer, ditch digger, cook, carpenter, etc...
Yes, and? Non-combatant is not a given. There are many examples of human societies where the majority are given at least some level of combat training or even retain some level of mandatory military service, let alone fictional examples. One of the best fictional analogies for classical Orc society would be Klingon society, where being a farmer, despite it being a necessary occupation, is nevertheless considered a less honourable one, or even a punishment.
There are even more examples of non-combatants being pressed into service out of need, real or perceived.
I agree, depends where in the world the orcs are. Cities or orc dens have a full society with commoners and children. Orc raiding parties or orc bandits contain only orcs with fighting capability, and the mundane tasks like cooking, woodworking etc. are performed by warriors with respective skill sets.
I agree, depends where in the world the orcs are. Cities or orc dens have a full society with commoners and children. Orc raiding parties or orc bandits contain only orcs with fighting capability, and the mundane tasks like cooking, woodworking etc. are performed by warriors with respective skill sets.
The issue for some is that even though common orc societies like above may be a thing in some peaceful valley, if the main thing shown in the game are the raiding parties then that becomes the default assumption of the culture.
Also, there's a difference in how these types of warrior clusters are described. If you have a band of orc raiders worshipping Gruumsh, they're a part of orc culture. But a practically identical human band of raiders worshipping Malar becomes a cult, which is (often) defined as being outside the norm of a society.
I agree, depends where in the world the orcs are. Cities or orc dens have a full society with commoners and children. Orc raiding parties or orc bandits contain only orcs with fighting capability, and the mundane tasks like cooking, woodworking etc. are performed by warriors with respective skill sets.
The issue for some is that even though common orc societies like above may be a thing in some peaceful valley, if the main thing shown in the game are the raiding parties then that becomes the default assumption of the culture.
Also, there's a difference in how these types of warrior clusters are described. If you have a band of orc raiders worshipping Gruumsh, they're a part of orc culture. But a practically identical human band of raiders worshipping Malar becomes a cult, which is (often) defined as being outside the norm of a society.
Yes, true, but that is a thing of world building... and where do you stop? Orcs that are generally destructive raiders are not ok, but Demons from the Abyss that destroy everything are? I am totally pro diverse depiction and more shades of gray in every species... but probably only on the material plane. This topic is too facetted to be discussed in depth in a forum I guess...
I agree, depends where in the world the orcs are. Cities or orc dens have a full society with commoners and children. Orc raiding parties or orc bandits contain only orcs with fighting capability, and the mundane tasks like cooking, woodworking etc. are performed by warriors with respective skill sets.
The issue for some is that even though common orc societies like above may be a thing in some peaceful valley, if the main thing shown in the game are the raiding parties then that becomes the default assumption of the culture.
Also, there's a difference in how these types of warrior clusters are described. If you have a band of orc raiders worshipping Gruumsh, they're a part of orc culture. But a practically identical human band of raiders worshipping Malar becomes a cult, which is (often) defined as being outside the norm of a society.
Kinda like how the Vikings were perceived by the rest of Europe in the ninth and tenth centuries. The reality of Norse culture was quite different.
1- It will appeal to members of the existing player base that do not like the current direction taken with orcs and drow. And it just tick the one of the other sides of the play base which have not problem with the word race. It will amuse the player base which see the word "race" in d&d as a game term and not the dictionary definition. I the groups I hang out with, this desire to change the word is a huge tempest in a tea cup.
2.- Will have a greater impact, long term, on the fight against discrimination... A wording change in a few books for niche hobby will not do this.
3- Will prevent controversy with existing species and/or future species being labelled as "Evil" .. But I like EVIL I am DM you should thank me for playing Evil. So this just another Barracks Beer discussion between the grunts against the college boys. Personally when I homebrew my world is GOOD vs EVIL. Orcs, gnolls, are cheap and easy XP.
If WOTC wants to change some wording here and there about orcs and drow being "always evil" Go ahead. But changing a word to another word will have no impact. True story. I listen to some Elementary teachers talking about word changes demanded from the school board. It when like this. Can not use "******" any more because the mean kids are using ****** as Insult. Can not use "Gifted" any more because the mean kids are using Gifted as playground insult. Can not use "Special Needs" any more because the mean kids are using Special as insult.
1- It will appeal to members of the existing player base that do not like the current direction taken with orcs and drow. And it just tick the one of the other sides of the play base which have not problem with the word race. It will amuse the player base which see the word "race" in d&d as a game term and not the dictionary definition. I the groups I hang out with, this desire to change the word is a huge tempest in a tea cup.
2.- Will have a greater impact, long term, on the fight against discrimination... A wording change in a few books for niche hobby will not do this.
3- Will prevent controversy with existing species and/or future species being labelled as "Evil" .. But I like EVIL I am DM you should thank me for playing Evil. So this just another Barracks Beer discussion between the grunts against the college boys. Personally when I homebrew my world is GOOD vs EVIL. Orcs, gnolls, are cheap and easy XP.
If WOTC wants to change some wording here and there about orcs and drow being "always evil" Go ahead. But changing a word to another word will have no impact. True story. I listen to some Elementary teachers talking about word changes demanded from the school board. It when like this. Can not use "******" any more because the mean kids are using ****** as Insult. Can not use "Gifted" any more because the mean kids are using Gifted as playground insult. Can not use "Special Needs" any more because the mean kids are using Special as insult.
It ties into thinking if you avoid hurting someone's feelings then you are making the world a better place. Unfortunately it's impossible to create a world where you never offend anyone. If you were to create such a world you would have to become a despotic dictator, remove freedom of speech and thought, as well as the press and what you can have for entertainment, as well as what history can and cannot be taught.
To truly create such a world we would be living in George Orwell's 1984. Big Brother would be watching, the Thought-Police out in force, and absolutely no one allowed to have an opinion contrary to what they are told to have.
1- It will appeal to members of the existing player base that do not like the current direction taken with orcs and drow. And it just tick the one of the other sides of the play base which have not problem with the word race. It will amuse the player base which see the word "race" in d&d as a game term and not the dictionary definition. I the groups I hang out with, this desire to change the word is a huge tempest in a tea cup.
2.- Will have a greater impact, long term, on the fight against discrimination... A wording change in a few books for niche hobby will not do this.
3- Will prevent controversy with existing species and/or future species being labelled as "Evil" .. But I like EVIL I am DM you should thank me for playing Evil. So this just another Barracks Beer discussion between the grunts against the college boys. Personally when I homebrew my world is GOOD vs EVIL. Orcs, gnolls, are cheap and easy XP.
If WOTC wants to change some wording here and there about orcs and drow being "always evil" Go ahead. But changing a word to another word will have no impact. True story. I listen to some Elementary teachers talking about word changes demanded from the school board. It when like this. Can not use "******" any more because the mean kids are using ****** as Insult. Can not use "Gifted" any more because the mean kids are using Gifted as playground insult. Can not use "Special Needs" any more because the mean kids are using Special as insult.
It ties into thinking if you avoid hurting someone's feelings then you are making the world a better place. Unfortunately it's impossible to create a world where you never offend anyone. If you were to create such a world you would have to become a despotic dictator, remove freedom of speech and thought, as well as the press and what you can have for entertainment, as well as what history can and cannot be taught.
To truly create such a world we would be living in George Orwell's 1984. Big Brother would be watching, the Thought-Police out in force, and absolutely no one allowed to have an opinion contrary to what they are told to have.
The inability to achieve perfection is no excuse for avoiding improvement.
No one said avoid improvement just don't take away other people's rights to say what's on their mind or have their own opinion, even if they blatantly insult and offend you.
We should all focus on improving ourselves first and foremost. Not force others to reach some higher ideal we hold sacred. Because if you feel like you are the moral arbiter of right and wrong you can guarantee someone else will look at you and want to dictate your words, thoughts and actions because you are too out of line for them.
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Per RAW, assuming a critter starts out as 'indifferent', a roll of 20+ will cause them to accept 'minor risk or sacrifice'. That's enough to mooch off of people, but not enough to get anything the owner particularly values.
I think I completely forgot to mention that the campaign that I’m currently in is run by someone I know and we are sort of doing it a bit more easy going. More exceptions and more freedom with actions and abilities. But yeah, I totally agree with what you are saying. If I was in a standard D&D campaign the way we are playing wouldn’t go past the DM.
Do’ Taba the Honest Merchant
Malwyn the Barkeeper of The Tales of Adventurers’ Tavern
Not being/caring about the sensitive shows privilege and a lack of empathy. No one is going to force you to have nice orcs, but be aware that some people do like them and want to be inclusive.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
LeviRocks has a point. I know a few people who have orcs as their mains.
Do’ Taba the Honest Merchant
Malwyn the Barkeeper of The Tales of Adventurers’ Tavern
I’ve never really dabbled in Magic in any of my games. Does anyone have any suggestions on Races, Background, etc. I hope to make a character who uses magic regularly but it isn’t the main feature of this character. If not any suggestions on the previous, does anyone have a suggestion on what rulebook should I use for playing D&D, aside from the Beginner’s Handbook?
sorry I just realized that this post is totally in the wrong conversation, oops.
Do’ Taba the Honest Merchant
Malwyn the Barkeeper of The Tales of Adventurers’ Tavern
Orcs and drow should not be demonized as “the other.” They’re both perfectly legit cultures and shouldn’t be automatically considered evil because they’re nocturnal or have darker skin.
That being said, of course no one’s gonna force you to do that in your game, but some people you play with might feel offended or excluded if you use racial stereotypes for nonhuman cultures.
The basic rules are actually an excellent place to start. It is a fairly easy walk through the steps of character generation. Using those steps you can create a character that uses a lot or a little magic.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You’ll need the Player’s Handbook 5e to create a character. Elves are good if you want a fighter or rogue who also multiclasses as one of the arcane caster types (wizard, sorcerer or warlock). Ranger and Druid is also a good combo for an elf, and Dragonborn is good if you want to multiclass as an arcane caster and something else (especially sorcerer or warlock with a high CHA bonus).
Thank you, I guess I’m rereading that book again. :)
Do’ Taba the Honest Merchant
Malwyn the Barkeeper of The Tales of Adventurers’ Tavern
Thank you, I’ll see about getting that book. Also, thanks for giving me race suggestions.
Do’ Taba the Honest Merchant
Malwyn the Barkeeper of The Tales of Adventurers’ Tavern
On the original problem, one thing I've been contemplating: why should be a demihuman be a genetic thing at all? For that matter, why should it even be a thing that is by birth? It actually causes problems, because if you've got a complete culture, well, whether or not orcs are all evil, where are all the orc commoners that any functional society would need?
On the other hand, if being an orc is an acquired property (say, it's a blessing granted to selected initiates of Gruumsh), it's totally possible to have 100% of orcs be warriors of some sort or another, because the blessing requires being a warrior, or is not wasted on non-warriors. Depending on what's required to acquire and keep this blessing, you can also justify all orcs being within 1 alignment step of their patron.
Other than that, I'd probably just adjust the defining features of orcs so they don't intelligibly correspond to any identifiable human ethnicity (probably a color transform along the blue or green axis, or possibly a hue rotation, rather than a change in brightness, along with deformations such as enlarged canines). Half-orcs can still exist, but it's not a race, it's a supernatural mark (and, since half-orcs are not that way by choice, does not have any alignment implications).
Hmm. Interesting. I never thought of it this way.
I wasn't talking about stats. The point is, for every warrior in a group, there's going to be a whole bunch of people with noncombatant jobs, such as farmer, ditch digger, cook, carpenter, etc...
I agree, depends where in the world the orcs are. Cities or orc dens have a full society with commoners and children. Orc raiding parties or orc bandits contain only orcs with fighting capability, and the mundane tasks like cooking, woodworking etc. are performed by warriors with respective skill sets.
The issue for some is that even though common orc societies like above may be a thing in some peaceful valley, if the main thing shown in the game are the raiding parties then that becomes the default assumption of the culture.
Also, there's a difference in how these types of warrior clusters are described. If you have a band of orc raiders worshipping Gruumsh, they're a part of orc culture. But a practically identical human band of raiders worshipping Malar becomes a cult, which is (often) defined as being outside the norm of a society.
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
Yes, true, but that is a thing of world building... and where do you stop? Orcs that are generally destructive raiders are not ok, but Demons from the Abyss that destroy everything are? I am totally pro diverse depiction and more shades of gray in every species... but probably only on the material plane. This topic is too facetted to be discussed in depth in a forum I guess...
Kinda like how the Vikings were perceived by the rest of Europe in the ninth and tenth centuries. The reality of Norse culture was quite different.
1- It will appeal to members of the existing player base that do not like the current direction taken with orcs and drow. And it just tick the one of the other sides of the play base which have not problem with the word race. It will amuse the player base which see the word "race" in d&d as a game term and not the dictionary definition. I the groups I hang out with, this desire to change the word is a huge tempest in a tea cup.
2.- Will have a greater impact, long term, on the fight against discrimination... A wording change in a few books for niche hobby will not do this.
3- Will prevent controversy with existing species and/or future species being labelled as "Evil" .. But I like EVIL I am DM you should thank me for playing Evil. So this just another Barracks Beer discussion between the grunts against the college boys. Personally when I homebrew my world is GOOD vs EVIL. Orcs, gnolls, are cheap and easy XP.
If WOTC wants to change some wording here and there about orcs and drow being "always evil" Go ahead. But changing a word to another word will have no impact. True story. I listen to some Elementary teachers talking about word changes demanded from the school board. It when like this. Can not use "******" any more because the mean kids are using ****** as Insult. Can not use "Gifted" any more because the mean kids are using Gifted as playground insult. Can not use "Special Needs" any more because the mean kids are using Special as insult.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
It ties into thinking if you avoid hurting someone's feelings then you are making the world a better place. Unfortunately it's impossible to create a world where you never offend anyone. If you were to create such a world you would have to become a despotic dictator, remove freedom of speech and thought, as well as the press and what you can have for entertainment, as well as what history can and cannot be taught.
To truly create such a world we would be living in George Orwell's 1984. Big Brother would be watching, the Thought-Police out in force, and absolutely no one allowed to have an opinion contrary to what they are told to have.
No one said avoid improvement just don't take away other people's rights to say what's on their mind or have their own opinion, even if they blatantly insult and offend you.
We should all focus on improving ourselves first and foremost. Not force others to reach some higher ideal we hold sacred. Because if you feel like you are the moral arbiter of right and wrong you can guarantee someone else will look at you and want to dictate your words, thoughts and actions because you are too out of line for them.