Simply stating that it exists does not make it so.
I get that Wizards of the Coast made their decision. I also expect it to turn out like it has for every other company that made decisions based on these kinds of decisions. They'll lose money and customers and then use that as proof that they should double-down on the same decisions that make them lose money.
The evidence for it has been widely printed at this point, I'm sure you've already seen it so I don't feel the need to reprint it. Attempts at rebuttals have been unimpressive.
People have been predicting the imminent of the game since the first time a change was made to the rules. Similar complaints were made when Wizards decided to drop the term "demihuman" from use in Third Edition and featured multiple characters of difference ethnicities and genders in the Third Edition Player's Handbook. The actual effect turned out to be inconsequential.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Simply stating that it exists does not make it so.
I get that Wizards of the Coast made their decision. I also expect it to turn out like it has for every other company that made decisions based on these kinds of decisions. They'll lose money and customers and then use that as proof that they should double-down on the same decisions that make them lose money.
Time will tell if I'm correct or not.
Ok, I'll bite. What trail of the dead or at least grievously economically wounded litany of companies do you have on hand that prove your assertion that WOTC will suffer some consequences? And consequences for an action no one is really clear on, especially based on an article claiming to have some sort of "scoop" which was really just a rehash of press releases and PR from the past few months. D&D has generated more public goodwill in adopting an editorial strategy that embraces a broader more diverse base of players, and its growth (a mix of actual sales as well as just becoming a stronger IP by have a greater penetration into the marketplace of the popular imagination ... that is the IP can be more than games) seems to have been good business, though it acknowledges it can better serve that broader audience via continued work on diverse, equitable, and inclusive editorial strategy (a lot of modern HR corporate speak -itself imported from current social change movements- imported intentionally to show you how people think in businesses involving mass entertainment consumption). Hasbro, Wizards owner, seems happy. Whatever direction they go in, sure there will be people rejecting the game for attention on principle. But this argument has been going on for some time, it's been more heated in the past two or three months, but I don't see the game suffering this quarter.
Orcs and Halflings are still distinct groups of individuals, and Halflings are still smaller than Orcs, no matter what you call them or which ability scores you assign to them.
They are physically different from each other. Whether that leads to racism in a given campaign setting or not is completely up to the author of that setting.
I know a game where races like Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes and intelligent wolves called Vargs exist. They are completely different races and co-exist peacefully and equally. No racism to be found.
Imo the problem of racism is less describing different groups of people as being different and more about people making a big fuss about these differences instead of focusing on the similarities.
There will always be a group of people hating on another group of people. And it will be because one group is different from the other. You could have an equal number of physically and psychologically diverse folk in each group but they will hate on each other just the same.
Nobody is forcing anybody to put that in their game. However, that type of conflict is reality.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I don't know why we need to change it we've had the term since 1974. Also, It's like whenever you have a different opinion someone says you hate the other people who had a different opinion to you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced"- Soren Kierkgaard
Well, in my opinion, I think we should just keep race instead of species.
I agree.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
REMEMBER: Wizards Of The Coast does not own DDB, they are two different companies. When you buy a physical book, WotC receives the money you bought it for, not DDB and vice versa. If you want a digital key to get an online book for free because you have the hardcopy book then DDB makes no money because you don't buy off DDB you buy off WotC, so please stop making threads about this issue. DDB needs money to continue helping people and servers aren't cheap.
You won't be able to use scientific classification to solve this as those terms aren't well defined either. Both terms (species and race) have multiple incompatible definitions and are used inconsistently among scientists even within the same field. Never mind whether it is useful to define a medieval fantasy game world using 21st century genetics and evolutionary theory. The D&D world is not our world. The term race in the D&D world does not mean the same as the term race in ours.
Ok, I'll bite. What trail of the dead or at least grievously economically wounded litany of companies do you have on hand that prove your assertion that WOTC will suffer some consequences? And consequences for an action no one is really clear on, especially based on an article claiming to have some sort of "scoop" which was really just a rehash of press releases and PR from the past few months. D&D has generated more public goodwill in adopting an editorial strategy that embraces a broader more diverse base of players, and its growth (a mix of actual sales as well as just becoming a stronger IP by have a greater penetration into the marketplace of the popular imagination ... that is the IP can be more than games) seems to have been good business, though it acknowledges it can better serve that broader audience via continued work on diverse, equitable, and inclusive editorial strategy (a lot of modern HR corporate speak -itself imported from current social change movements- imported intentionally to show you how people think in businesses involving mass entertainment consumption). Hasbro, Wizards owner, seems happy. Whatever direction they go in, sure there will be people rejecting the game for attention on principle. But this argument has been going on for some time, it's been more heated in the past two or three months, but I don't see the game suffering this quarter.
That angry gamer article uses the sort of false logical deductions that would lead to blaming someone for making it rain, because they had an umbrella out.
On the most part, they're conflating disparate circumstances and assigning one to be the cause of another because doing so aligns with their political views. In doing so, they are attempting to present their opinion as fact.
I recommend no further discussion of that article here, as it would be going way off topic for this thread and these forums.
More to the point, there is nothing that I have read with respect to the changes they seem to be contemplating regarding taking Demons or Devils out, or taking Orcs, Drow or any other such race out of the game.
This game has survived going from 1e to 2e (which was massively controversial at the time), has survived numerous re-writes of the background (which people insisting things have been the same since the 1970's seem to either not know or conveniently ignore) and has survived 4e to come back even stronger. And yet you figure this change would kill the game?
These were all changes made by the owners for their own reasons. It also survived the Satanic Panic. It did not do that by removing devils and demons from the game.
They did, however, change the names of devils and demons to Baatezu and Tanar'ri. Which caused a huge outcry and many people declared that the game was RUINED FOREVER and would soon go under.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Simply stating that it exists does not make it so.
I get that Wizards of the Coast made their decision. I also expect it to turn out like it has for every other company that made decisions based on these kinds of decisions. They'll lose money and customers and then use that as proof that they should double-down on the same decisions that make them lose money.
Time will tell if I'm correct or not.
The evidence for it has been widely printed at this point, I'm sure you've already seen it so I don't feel the need to reprint it. Attempts at rebuttals have been unimpressive.
People have been predicting the imminent of the game since the first time a change was made to the rules. Similar complaints were made when Wizards decided to drop the term "demihuman" from use in Third Edition and featured multiple characters of difference ethnicities and genders in the Third Edition Player's Handbook. The actual effect turned out to be inconsequential.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Ok, I'll bite. What trail of the dead or at least grievously economically wounded litany of companies do you have on hand that prove your assertion that WOTC will suffer some consequences? And consequences for an action no one is really clear on, especially based on an article claiming to have some sort of "scoop" which was really just a rehash of press releases and PR from the past few months. D&D has generated more public goodwill in adopting an editorial strategy that embraces a broader more diverse base of players, and its growth (a mix of actual sales as well as just becoming a stronger IP by have a greater penetration into the marketplace of the popular imagination ... that is the IP can be more than games) seems to have been good business, though it acknowledges it can better serve that broader audience via continued work on diverse, equitable, and inclusive editorial strategy (a lot of modern HR corporate speak -itself imported from current social change movements- imported intentionally to show you how people think in businesses involving mass entertainment consumption). Hasbro, Wizards owner, seems happy. Whatever direction they go in, sure there will be people rejecting the game
for attentionon principle. But this argument has been going on for some time, it's been more heated in the past two or three months, but I don't see the game suffering this quarter.Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It doesn't really solve any problems, does it?
Orcs and Halflings are still distinct groups of individuals, and Halflings are still smaller than Orcs, no matter what you call them or which ability scores you assign to them.
They are physically different from each other. Whether that leads to racism in a given campaign setting or not is completely up to the author of that setting.
I know a game where races like Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes and intelligent wolves called Vargs exist. They are completely different races and co-exist peacefully and equally. No racism to be found.
Imo the problem of racism is less describing different groups of people as being different and more about people making a big fuss about these differences instead of focusing on the similarities.
I think we should just stick with race instead of species.
"Life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced"- Soren Kierkgaard
There will always be a group of people hating on another group of people. And it will be because one group is different from the other. You could have an equal number of physically and psychologically diverse folk in each group but they will hate on each other just the same.
Nobody is forcing anybody to put that in their game. However, that type of conflict is reality.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I don't know why we need to change it we've had the term since 1974. Also, It's like whenever you have a different opinion someone says you hate the other people who had a different opinion to you.
"Life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced"- Soren Kierkgaard
Well, in my opinion, I think we should just keep race instead of species.
"Life is not a problem to be solved but a reality to be experienced"- Soren Kierkgaard
I agree.
REMEMBER: Wizards Of The Coast does not own DDB, they are two different companies. When you buy a physical book, WotC receives the money you bought it for, not DDB and vice versa. If you want a digital key to get an online book for free because you have the hardcopy book then DDB makes no money because you don't buy off DDB you buy off WotC, so please stop making threads about this issue. DDB needs money to continue helping people and servers aren't cheap.
You won't be able to use scientific classification to solve this as those terms aren't well defined either. Both terms (species and race) have multiple incompatible definitions and are used inconsistently among scientists even within the same field. Never mind whether it is useful to define a medieval fantasy game world using 21st century genetics and evolutionary theory. The D&D world is not our world. The term race in the D&D world does not mean the same as the term race in ours.
Well. . . .
https://www.oneangrygamer.net/get-woke-go-broke-the-master-list/
That angry gamer article uses the sort of false logical deductions that would lead to blaming someone for making it rain, because they had an umbrella out.
On the most part, they're conflating disparate circumstances and assigning one to be the cause of another because doing so aligns with their political views. In doing so, they are attempting to present their opinion as fact.
I recommend no further discussion of that article here, as it would be going way off topic for this thread and these forums.
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Of course they aren't. They are only changing them so they may as well be humans and changing decades old lore to appease a twitter mob who doesn't even play the game. https://**********************/2020/05/05/man-who-claimed-dungeon-dragons-depiction-of-orcs-is-racist-admits-dd-is-overwhelmingly-not-my-game-of-choice/
They did, however, change the names of devils and demons to Baatezu and Tanar'ri. Which caused a huge outcry and many people declared that the game was RUINED FOREVER and would soon go under.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
This thread keeps going off-topic and has had numerous posts deleted for directly insulting others in the discussion.
Thank you for your participation - this thread has now been locked.
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊