The problem with the other gish classes is mostly that Wizards didn't pay attention to their own action economy; why would you sacrifice a fighter action for a subpar spellcasting, or a spellcaster action for a subpar fighter action. However, the fact that it's a problem with all arcane gish classes tells us that the need isn't for a new class, the need is to fix existing mechanics. Which probably means fixing it with spells and/or feats.
WotC has said they're not fixing subclasses, so that's not going to happen. If they're not going to fix their broken gish subclasses, the next best solution is to make a new class.
Paladins are divine gishes, but are done in a satisfactory way, and normally don't have a bunch of action economy dilemmas.
Rangers are primal gishes, and are done in a way that is a good idea, but executed poorly. With the CFV in TCoE, this problem will hopefully be fixed, and we will have a second satisfactory gish class.
We have the other 2 types of spellcasting, so we need an arcane gish class. They could be done in a satisfactory and balanced way, while still being distinct.
Unless I am missing something, I only count one...
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Apologies if I came across harsh, GoodBovine, but I'm a gay man with lots of LGBT friends who deal being disrespected for their gender and identity on a regular basis. It's very raw for me.
The problem with the other gish classes is mostly that Wizards didn't pay attention to their own action economy; why would you sacrifice a fighter action for a subpar spellcasting, or a spellcaster action for a subpar fighter action. However, the fact that it's a problem with all arcane gish classes tells us that the need isn't for a new class, the need is to fix existing mechanics. Which probably means fixing it with spells and/or feats.
WotC has said they're not fixing subclasses, so that's not going to happen. If they're not going to fix their broken gish subclasses, the next best solution is to make a new class.
Paladins are divine gishes, but are done in a satisfactory way, and normally don't have a bunch of action economy dilemmas.
Rangers are primal gishes, and are done in a way that is a good idea, but executed poorly. With the CFV in TCoE, this problem will hopefully be fixed, and we will have a second satisfactory gish class.
We have the other 2 types of spellcasting, so we need an arcane gish class. They could be done in a satisfactory and balanced way, while still being distinct.
Unless I am missing something, I only count one...
Psionic.....?
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"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Unless I am missing something, I only count one...
Reread my post, maybe that will clarify. There's Primal, Divine, and Arcane spellcasting (some group primal and divine together, but that's BS). We have a Primal gish class, a Divine gish class, and we have space for an Arcane gish class.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I have played a hexblade.....four? times, and a hexblade/pally multiclass four times. One of them is currently my second favourite character, and I loved playing all of them. Between hex, and armour of Agathys, the blade invos (I only take thirsting, smite and lifedrinker). The only problem is the action economy. You want to cast hex, use hexblades curse, and get a BA attack in if you have PAM.....it takes a few rounds to set up, but the DPR is insane.
But you're not thinking in comparison to what you could have done if you focused on Eldritch Blast. With Hex, Hexblade's Curse, and Agonizing Blast you could be doing much more damage than you currently are, without the help of magic weapons. If the Hexblade is meant to be a gish subclass, it should be able to be better at being a gish than a caster.
Have YOU ever played a hexblade? even if they are not as optimized as an EB warlock (Which IMO they are), they are a blast to play. Also, you do more damage, due to eldritch smite. And PAM helps with dpr. And Lifedrinker.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Apologies if I came across harsh, GoodBovine, but I'm a gay man with lot's of LGBT friends who deal being disrespected for their gender and identity on a regular basis. It's very raw for me.
not harsh. No harm in not knowing something. It is a british term, and not a very common one at that. It is usually used as a joke.
Unless I am missing something, I only count one...
Reread my post, maybe that will clarify. There's Primal, Divine, and Arcane spellcasting (some group primal and divine together, but that's BS). We have a Primal gish class, a Divine gish class, and we have space for an Arcane gish class.
read it wrong, disregard.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Have YOU ever played a hexblade? even if they are not as optimized as an EB warlock (Which IMO they are), they are a blast to play. Also, you do more damage, due to eldritch smite. And PAM helps with dpr. And Lifedrinker.
As I said above, yes, I have played it. They are fun to play, but have an existential crisis of being a gish or blaster. Eldritch Smite takes your spell slots, which does let you do more DPR, like twice. Up until Life Drinker, Hexblades do less damage.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Have YOU ever played a hexblade? even if they are not as optimized as an EB warlock (Which IMO they are), they are a blast to play. Also, you do more damage, due to eldritch smite. And PAM helps with dpr. And Lifedrinker.
As I said above, yes, I have played it. They are fun to play, but have an existential crisis of being a gish or blaster. Eldritch Smite takes your spell slots, which does let you do more DPR, like twice. Up until Life Drinker, Hexblades do less damage.
Idk about that. Try playing a V.Human, and grab PAM or GWM.....so much fun.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Hexblades aren't perfect, but if you don't multiclass they aren't to broken and are pretty fun to play. Being in melee also synergizes with Darkness and Devil's Sight.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
The problem with the other gish classes is mostly that Wizards didn't pay attention to their own action economy; why would you sacrifice a fighter action for a subpar spellcasting, or a spellcaster action for a subpar fighter action. However, the fact that it's a problem with all arcane gish classes tells us that the need isn't for a new class, the need is to fix existing mechanics. Which probably means fixing it with spells and/or feats.
WotC has said they're not fixing subclasses, so that's not going to happen. If they're not going to fix their broken gish subclasses, the next best solution is to make a new class.
Paladins are divine gishes, but are done in a satisfactory way, and normally don't have a bunch of action economy dilemmas.
Rangers are primal gishes, and are done in a way that is a good idea, but executed poorly. With the CFV in TCoE, this problem will hopefully be fixed, and we will have a second satisfactory gish class.
We have the other 2 types of spellcasting, so we need an arcane gish class. They could be done in a satisfactory and balanced way, while still being distinct.
Unless I am missing something, I only count one...
Psionic.....?
Sorry, I was confused like GoodBovine. You meant we already had 2 gish classes, not that there were two more we needed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Have YOU ever played a hexblade? even if they are not as optimized as an EB warlock (Which IMO they are), they are a blast to play. Also, you do more damage, due to eldritch smite. And PAM helps with dpr. And Lifedrinker.
As I said above, yes, I have played it. They are fun to play, but have an existential crisis of being a gish or blaster. Eldritch Smite takes your spell slots, which does let you do more DPR, like twice. Up until Life Drinker, Hexblades do less damage.
Idk about that. Try playing a V.Human, and grab PAM or GWM.....so much fun.
(The character was a changeling, and had Actor, GWM, and Warcaster.)
Anyway, Hexblades are fun, can be monsters in combat, but fall short of filling the Gish niche.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
The problem with the other gish classes is mostly that Wizards didn't pay attention to their own action economy; why would you sacrifice a fighter action for a subpar spellcasting, or a spellcaster action for a subpar fighter action. However, the fact that it's a problem with all arcane gish classes tells us that the need isn't for a new class, the need is to fix existing mechanics. Which probably means fixing it with spells and/or feats.
WotC has said they're not fixing subclasses, so that's not going to happen.
See 'spells and/or feats'. All you really need is spells that usefully combine with martial attacks (e.g. paladin smites) that are on arcane spell lists.
Have YOU ever played a hexblade? even if they are not as optimized as an EB warlock (Which IMO they are), they are a blast to play. Also, you do more damage, due to eldritch smite. And PAM helps with dpr. And Lifedrinker.
As I said above, yes, I have played it. They are fun to play, but have an existential crisis of being a gish or blaster. Eldritch Smite takes your spell slots, which does let you do more DPR, like twice. Up until Life Drinker, Hexblades do less damage.
Idk about that. Try playing a V.Human, and grab PAM or GWM.....so much fun.
(The character was a changeling, and had Actor, GWM, and Warcaster.)
Anyway, Hexblades are fun, can be monsters in combat, but fall short of filling the Gish niche.
Never said that they were a gish, just that people were hating on them, and that they were fun :)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
The problem with the other gish classes is mostly that Wizards didn't pay attention to their own action economy; why would you sacrifice a fighter action for a subpar spellcasting, or a spellcaster action for a subpar fighter action. However, the fact that it's a problem with all arcane gish classes tells us that the need isn't for a new class, the need is to fix existing mechanics. Which probably means fixing it with spells and/or feats.
WotC has said they're not fixing subclasses, so that's not going to happen.
See 'spells and/or feats'. All you really need is spells that usefully combine with martial attacks (e.g. paladin smites) that are on arcane spell lists.
I disagree. You would then have to give them to one of the existing spell lists, which would lead to exploits. Even if they fixed them and they were satisfying gish subclasses, that wouldn't get rid of the need for an arcane Gish class.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Never said that they were a gish, just that people were hating on them, and that they were fun :)
I know, I wasn't targeting you. There were others saying that they and the other subclasses were good replacements, which I was trying to prove that wrong.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
See 'spells and/or feats'. All you really need is spells that usefully combine with martial attacks (e.g. paladin smites) that are on arcane spell lists.
I disagree. You would then have to give them to one of the existing spell lists, which would lead to exploits.
Just make them not very useful if you aren't trying to mix melee and magic. For example, the only real weakness of Shadow Blade for eldritch knights is that it's an illusion spell (it's a great arcane trickster spell) but most pure wizards won't bother.
See 'spells and/or feats'. All you really need is spells that usefully combine with martial attacks (e.g. paladin smites) that are on arcane spell lists.
I disagree. You would then have to give them to one of the existing spell lists, which would lead to exploits.
Just make them not very useful if you aren't trying to mix melee and magic. For example, the only real weakness of Shadow Blade for eldritch knights is that it's an illusion spell (it's a great arcane trickster spell) but most pure wizards won't bother.
Okay, we've done our fix for the gish gap, can you do yours in a satisfying way of filling it?
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
In 1977 a movie came out called "Star Wars" and it was Magical. It was fun! Adults enjoyed it. Kids enjoyed it. There were lines running out the theater doors and around the block filled with people waiting to get in to see Star Wars.
In the years since, every effort has been made to capture that magic and make another movie like that. All efforts so far have failed.
D&D is Magical.
Nobody really knows what makes it such a great game. It just is. Wizards of the Coast proved pretty conclusively that they didn't know what made D&D magical. On its own lights 4th Edition was a decent game. Had it been published by some other company under a different name it might have gained a following. It just wasn't D&D. It didn't have the magic.
So we have 5th Edition. It is pretty clear that the 5th Edition of the game was a desperate attempt to go back to the Good Old Days and bring back the magic. I was kind of shocked that they succeeded. Whatever it is that made D&D so great, the 5th Edition of the game seems to have it.
So Wizards has hold of the goose that lays the golden eggs again. They are being *very* careful to avoid anything that might kill the poor bird while at the same time trying to please an audience that constantly clamors for new content. So far, so good. We have not been buried in splat books, or inundated with Prestige Classes. The goose seems healthy enough.
Would a bunch more classes choke the golden goose to death? Nobody knows. Adding more and more Stuff to the game promotes power creep and rules bloat, and those have killed previous editions of the game. Where is the dividing line between enough new classes and too many? Which classes should they add? Just because something appeared in previous editions of the game doesn't mean it was a good idea. An awful lot of stuff that got published was horrible.
I voted in the poll that D&D already has too many classes. I really don't think they should add more. It will just open the floodgates to an overwhelming tidal wave of crap that kills off the golden goose. If you have a character concept that just doesn't fit with what already exists, D&D has a mechanic for that. It's called "homebrew" these days. Used to be called "House Rules". Get with your DM and work together to come up with something that satisfies.
Let's try to keep the magic alive.
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<Insert clever signature here>
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Unless I am missing something, I only count one...
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Apologies if I came across harsh, GoodBovine, but I'm a gay man with lots of LGBT friends who deal being disrespected for their gender and identity on a regular basis. It's very raw for me.
Psionic.....?
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Reread my post, maybe that will clarify. There's Primal, Divine, and Arcane spellcasting (some group primal and divine together, but that's BS). We have a Primal gish class, a Divine gish class, and we have space for an Arcane gish class.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
That's magic, not spellcasting (please don't start the debate again). Arcane, Divine, Primal.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Have YOU ever played a hexblade? even if they are not as optimized as an EB warlock (Which IMO they are), they are a blast to play. Also, you do more damage, due to eldritch smite. And PAM helps with dpr. And Lifedrinker.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
not harsh. No harm in not knowing something. It is a british term, and not a very common one at that. It is usually used as a joke.
read it wrong, disregard.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
As I said above, yes, I have played it. They are fun to play, but have an existential crisis of being a gish or blaster. Eldritch Smite takes your spell slots, which does let you do more DPR, like twice. Up until Life Drinker, Hexblades do less damage.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Idk about that. Try playing a V.Human, and grab PAM or GWM.....so much fun.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Hexblades aren't perfect, but if you don't multiclass they aren't to broken and are pretty fun to play. Being in melee also synergizes with Darkness and Devil's Sight.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Sorry, I was confused like GoodBovine. You meant we already had 2 gish classes, not that there were two more we needed.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
(The character was a changeling, and had Actor, GWM, and Warcaster.)
Anyway, Hexblades are fun, can be monsters in combat, but fall short of filling the Gish niche.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
See 'spells and/or feats'. All you really need is spells that usefully combine with martial attacks (e.g. paladin smites) that are on arcane spell lists.
Never said that they were a gish, just that people were hating on them, and that they were fun :)
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Yes, exactly. I might have worded that weirdly.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I disagree. You would then have to give them to one of the existing spell lists, which would lead to exploits. Even if they fixed them and they were satisfying gish subclasses, that wouldn't get rid of the need for an arcane Gish class.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I know, I wasn't targeting you. There were others saying that they and the other subclasses were good replacements, which I was trying to prove that wrong.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Just make them not very useful if you aren't trying to mix melee and magic. For example, the only real weakness of Shadow Blade for eldritch knights is that it's an illusion spell (it's a great arcane trickster spell) but most pure wizards won't bother.
Okay, we've done our fix for the gish gap, can you do yours in a satisfying way of filling it?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
In 1977 a movie came out called "Star Wars" and it was Magical. It was fun! Adults enjoyed it. Kids enjoyed it. There were lines running out the theater doors and around the block filled with people waiting to get in to see Star Wars.
In the years since, every effort has been made to capture that magic and make another movie like that. All efforts so far have failed.
D&D is Magical.
Nobody really knows what makes it such a great game. It just is. Wizards of the Coast proved pretty conclusively that they didn't know what made D&D magical. On its own lights 4th Edition was a decent game. Had it been published by some other company under a different name it might have gained a following. It just wasn't D&D. It didn't have the magic.
So we have 5th Edition. It is pretty clear that the 5th Edition of the game was a desperate attempt to go back to the Good Old Days and bring back the magic. I was kind of shocked that they succeeded. Whatever it is that made D&D so great, the 5th Edition of the game seems to have it.
So Wizards has hold of the goose that lays the golden eggs again. They are being *very* careful to avoid anything that might kill the poor bird while at the same time trying to please an audience that constantly clamors for new content. So far, so good. We have not been buried in splat books, or inundated with Prestige Classes. The goose seems healthy enough.
Would a bunch more classes choke the golden goose to death? Nobody knows. Adding more and more Stuff to the game promotes power creep and rules bloat, and those have killed previous editions of the game. Where is the dividing line between enough new classes and too many? Which classes should they add? Just because something appeared in previous editions of the game doesn't mean it was a good idea. An awful lot of stuff that got published was horrible.
I voted in the poll that D&D already has too many classes. I really don't think they should add more. It will just open the floodgates to an overwhelming tidal wave of crap that kills off the golden goose. If you have a character concept that just doesn't fit with what already exists, D&D has a mechanic for that. It's called "homebrew" these days. Used to be called "House Rules". Get with your DM and work together to come up with something that satisfies.
Let's try to keep the magic alive.
<Insert clever signature here>