Recently, I read an article about playing blind characters, that suggested DMs could replace eyesight with tremmorsense (120 ft cube). The author got a lot of flack for it and deleted their article and the Twitter post linking to it a few days later.
It has made me think though. Would giving a blind PC tremmorsense, really break the game? Certain monsters have tremmorsense, and we don't consider that to be game breaking. Also, having tremmorsense would still allow the character to "see" within the world, but would provide a lot of roleplay opportunities for both the player of the blind character and the group as a whole.
Is it really that bad, and would it really break the game?
Tremorsense is simultaneously disruptively more powerful than regular sight and disruptively weaker.
Here's what the rules are for tremorsense
Tremorsense
A monster with tremorsense can detect and pinpoint the origin of vibrations within a specific radius, provided that the monster and the source of the vibrations are in contact with the same ground or substance.
Tremorsense can't be used to detect flying or incorporeal creatures. Many burrowing creatures, such as ankhegs, have this special sense.
Strengths The creature with tremorsense gets the following advantages
They can see through doors/walls because they can perceive anything within the radius that's in contact with the ground
They can automatically negate the hide action if the hiding creature is in contact with the ground
They can negate invisibility for non-flying creatures
They can't be surprised by creatures approaching on the groun
Weaknesses The creature with tremorsense also suffers the following disadvantages
The sense doesn't actually grant sight, meaning if they only have tremorsense meaning they count as blinded, which in turn means
Can't cast spells that require you to see the target
Automatically fail checks that rely on sight
Have disadvantage on all attack rolls
Can't make opportunity attacks
Ultimately the good parts are disruptive, the bad parts are disruptive, and neither balance each other.
For me it's not so much about the mechanics of it. It's just insensitive and disrespectful. If you're going to play a blind character - have them actually be blind. Don't try to give them some sort of superhero-blindness.
Giving a blind character other senses to overcome that blindness is just like saying "I want to play a blind character - but I don't want to play a blind character."
For me it's not so much about the mechanics of it. It's just insensitive and disrespectful. If you're going to play a blind character - have them actually be blind. Don't try to give them some sort of superhero-blindness.
I agree strongly with this sentiment; it's not great to make a novelty out of a disability and including disabilities in character design should be done with sensitivity, respect and consideration first and foremost.
This is just my recommendation as an able bodied person, I think the best course of action would be to ask an actual person who is blind and has lived that experience. But if you really want to play a blind character, I think the most sensitive way that doesn't make a novelty out of it would be to mechanically not change their senses and flavour that as them just being personally adapted to their abilities. No special downsides or upsides, it's just part of who they are and they're just as capable as anyone else.
For me it's not so much about the mechanics of it. It's just insensitive and disrespectful. If you're going to play a blind character - have them actually be blind. Don't try to give them some sort of superhero-blindness.
Giving a blind character other senses to overcome that blindness is just like saying "I want to play a blind character - but I don't want to play a blind character."
I disagree strongly with this sentiment; It's a fantasy world filled with "Super heroes". Not everything needs to be taken as being disrespectful.
I would not recommend trying to create a player character such as Toph from Avatar, the Last Airbender. The rules of that world are disparate with D&D 5e rules. It sounds cool on paper in the AtLA world where she was just as capable as anyone else, but it just doesn't work well on/off the paper in 5e where such a character would be extremely disadvantaged instead of capable and, possibly, more disadvantaged than many IRL people who are blind given my brief encounters with a person blind from birth and a person who became legally blind.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
My favorite superhero of all time is Daredevil. I can see wanting to play a character like him, and I have in Champions.
Using the current D&D ruleset, tremorsense could be seen as the closest analogy to what he does. However, as Davedamon pointed out it doesn't mesh quite right.
I'd still give it a shot though just to see how it worked.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Daredevil doesn't have tremorsense, he has Blindsight based on hearing. He can pinpoint objects that aren't touching the ground but can't see anything if he's deafened (say, by exceptionally loud noises).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Daredevil doesn't have tremorsense, he has Blindsight based on hearing. He can pinpoint objects that aren't touching the ground but can't see anything if he's deafened (say, by exceptionally loud noises).
Ah you are correct. I forgot about blindsight.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Alternatively, there is this UA Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants:
Blind Fighting - Being unable to see a creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your attack rolls against it, provided the creature isn’t hidden from you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
I would not recommend trying to create a player character such as Toph from Avatar, the Last Airbender. The rules of that world are disparate with D&D 5e rules. It sounds cool on paper in the AtLA world where she was just as capable as anyone else, but it just doesn't work well on/off the paper in 5e where such a character would be extremely disadvantaged instead of capable and, possibly, more disadvantaged than many IRL people who are blind given my brief encounters with a person blind from birth and a person who became legally blind.
I'm not sure if it's a question of rules of the world, it's just that Toph (who is otherwise awesome) survives very much because her handicap is ignored except when it's funny to remind the viewers that it exists. Which in itself is something that would work very badly in a RPG environment.
Her handicap isn't ignored. She just have ways to compensate for it to such a degree that it seldom even is a problem. When it is a problem, it's a huge one.
I'm not sure if it's a question of rules of the world, it's just that Toph (who is otherwise awesome) survives very much because her handicap is ignored except when it's funny to remind the viewers that it exists. Which in itself is something that would work very badly in a RPG environment.
Her handicap isn't ignored. She just have ways to compensate for it to such a degree that it seldom even is a problem. When it is a problem, it's a huge one.
We are drifting a bit apart from the subject of the thread here, but it's just a show (although I admit an awesome one) and the way her power works is totally inconsistent, sensing things in the air or on wood for example, and sensing some things in some cases and totally forgetting them in other scenes. It does not detract too much from the show because, once more, she is treated as "seeing" for all purposes except when it's funny to point out that she is not, but there is no way you could codify into proper roleplaying rules and not get tons of different points of view as to what is correct or not correct in a given situation. Tremorsense far from covers it, you have no idea what the creatures that you know the location of are doing, for example.
Yes, you are both off topic and in the wrong regarding Toph. The way her powers are depicted is consistent through-out the show. Maybe you can rewatch it to understand how it actually works? Then you would notice that it is also not only played for laughs.
It is correct however that it can't easily be codified into D&D using tremorsense. If anyone wanted to play a Toph-like character the easiest way would probably to just say that they can "see" but give them disadvantage on certain skill checks and prohibit them from certain things like detecting colour and reading and writing and the like.
I'm not sure if it's a question of rules of the world, it's just that Toph (who is otherwise awesome) survives very much because her handicap is ignored except when it's funny to remind the viewers that it exists. Which in itself is something that would work very badly in a RPG environment.
Her handicap isn't ignored. She just have ways to compensate for it to such a degree that it seldom even is a problem. When it is a problem, it's a huge one.
We are drifting a bit apart from the subject of the thread here, but it's just a show (although I admit an awesome one) and the way her power works is totally inconsistent, sensing things in the air or on wood for example, and sensing some things in some cases and totally forgetting them in other scenes. It does not detract too much from the show because, once more, she is treated as "seeing" for all purposes except when it's funny to point out that she is not, but there is no way you could codify into proper roleplaying rules and not get tons of different points of view as to what is correct or not correct in a given situation. Tremorsense far from covers it, you have no idea what the creatures that you know the location of are doing, for example.
Yes, you are both off topic and in the wrong regarding Toph. The way her powers are depicted is consistent through-out the show. Maybe you can rewatch it to understand how it actually works? Then you would notice that it is also not only played for laughs.
And maybe you should be the one rewatching it, I have given you two instances of inconsistent things, which have been noted by quite a number of fans. And for me, that is the end of this subject.
If what you are saying is that you are not the only fanboy who hasn't grasped the show I can't say anything except that you are probably correct.
It is correct however that it can't easily be codified into D&D using tremorsense. If anyone wanted to play a Toph-like character the easiest way would probably to just say that they can "see" but give them disadvantage on certain skill checks and prohibit them from certain things like detecting colour and reading and writing and the like.
At least we can agree on this and on the fact that, for most intent and purposes, she cannot be considered blind. Moreover, gameswise, the advantages that she has far outweigh the reading/colour problem, which is why the swap proposed by OP would certainly in the end being a huge advantage.
Yes. That it was I said.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Recently, I read an article about playing blind characters, that suggested DMs could replace eyesight with tremmorsense (120 ft cube). The author got a lot of flack for it and deleted their article and the Twitter post linking to it a few days later.
It has made me think though. Would giving a blind PC tremmorsense, really break the game? Certain monsters have tremmorsense, and we don't consider that to be game breaking. Also, having tremmorsense would still allow the character to "see" within the world, but would provide a lot of roleplay opportunities for both the player of the blind character and the group as a whole.
Is it really that bad, and would it really break the game?
Copper for your thoughts!
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Tremorsense is simultaneously disruptively more powerful than regular sight and disruptively weaker.
Here's what the rules are for tremorsense
Strengths
The creature with tremorsense gets the following advantages
Weaknesses
The creature with tremorsense also suffers the following disadvantages
Ultimately the good parts are disruptive, the bad parts are disruptive, and neither balance each other.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
For me it's not so much about the mechanics of it. It's just insensitive and disrespectful. If you're going to play a blind character - have them actually be blind. Don't try to give them some sort of superhero-blindness.
Giving a blind character other senses to overcome that blindness is just like saying "I want to play a blind character - but I don't want to play a blind character."
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
I agree strongly with this sentiment; it's not great to make a novelty out of a disability and including disabilities in character design should be done with sensitivity, respect and consideration first and foremost.
This is just my recommendation as an able bodied person, I think the best course of action would be to ask an actual person who is blind and has lived that experience. But if you really want to play a blind character, I think the most sensitive way that doesn't make a novelty out of it would be to mechanically not change their senses and flavour that as them just being personally adapted to their abilities. No special downsides or upsides, it's just part of who they are and they're just as capable as anyone else.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I disagree strongly with this sentiment; It's a fantasy world filled with "Super heroes". Not everything needs to be taken as being disrespectful.
I would not recommend trying to create a player character such as Toph from Avatar, the Last Airbender. The rules of that world are disparate with D&D 5e rules. It sounds cool on paper in the AtLA world where she was just as capable as anyone else, but it just doesn't work well on/off the paper in 5e where such a character would be extremely disadvantaged instead of capable and, possibly, more disadvantaged than many IRL people who are blind given my brief encounters with a person blind from birth and a person who became legally blind.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
There is also immunity to a whole bunch of stuff, not just invisibility.
Immune to sight based attacks, including the powerful "Hypnotic Pattern" and gaze attacks such as the Medusa.
Immune to most illusions (some argument about sound based illusions)
My favorite superhero of all time is Daredevil. I can see wanting to play a character like him, and I have in Champions.
Using the current D&D ruleset, tremorsense could be seen as the closest analogy to what he does. However, as Davedamon pointed out it doesn't mesh quite right.
I'd still give it a shot though just to see how it worked.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Daredevil doesn't have tremorsense, he has Blindsight based on hearing. He can pinpoint objects that aren't touching the ground but can't see anything if he's deafened (say, by exceptionally loud noises).
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Ah you are correct. I forgot about blindsight.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Alternatively, there is this UA Fighting Style from the Class Feature Variants:
Blind Fighting - Being unable to see a creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your attack rolls against it, provided the creature isn’t hidden from you.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
Her handicap isn't ignored. She just have ways to compensate for it to such a degree that it seldom even is a problem. When it is a problem, it's a huge one.
Yes, you are both off topic and in the wrong regarding Toph. The way her powers are depicted is consistent through-out the show. Maybe you can rewatch it to understand how it actually works? Then you would notice that it is also not only played for laughs.
It is correct however that it can't easily be codified into D&D using tremorsense. If anyone wanted to play a Toph-like character the easiest way would probably to just say that they can "see" but give them disadvantage on certain skill checks and prohibit them from certain things like detecting colour and reading and writing and the like.
If what you are saying is that you are not the only fanboy who hasn't grasped the show I can't say anything except that you are probably correct.
Yes. That it was I said.