I know they need to make a living as it where for the corporation that is Hasbro , but do share holders get the DnD book for free? or discounted I sure would purchase a few shares just for that, as for later editions I think Fifth is fine and they really should stop redesigning that whole damn game ever eight years. they should just come out with Dungeons and Dragons alterative book editions instead. like would you like your game more crunchy alternative book 3.75. did you like the forth version here is alternative book 4.5.
I also think its time to bring back
star Frontiers with fifth edition
Top Secret
boot hill
and campaign books like Dark matter and Stardrive
lets not for get Gamma world
Dragon Quest
better get hustling Star finder is due out August!
Here is something else to consider. I'm a teacher, I run an RPG Club (20ish kids) for my school and I would like to be able to have a group license or a group discount. I started the club about a year ago with 3 kids and they got hooked and it just grew from there.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract. -RAH
It is easier to stay out than get out. -Twain
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable. -RAH
I think Teachers and Public educator as as well as Libraries should get a discount or free books, one teacher can bring 150 students to Dungeons and Dragons just with in their tenure !
what about a program to start Dungeons and Dragons legends in public libraries and schools too. their is not always a store in a town but their are always schools and libraries !
lets be about the future instead of the present. let us come toward one another instead of away, lets secure the next generation in a fashion that well change all generations.
there is still questions or what the future of game stare are going to become, but their is never a question of weather we will have schools or Public and School Libraries!
I'll be real, i think teachers don't get enough discounts in life, so i think one on dndbeyond would be great. Or any sort of educator for that matter (librarian, counselor, etc.). However, i would like to add to that group Pastors. I know that seems super weird for DnD. But i'm a youth pastor. I work with 'kids' ages 12-29. I use DnD as a great outreach opportunity as well as entertainment for that group. If we are throwing around discounts for educators because of their scope of influence or because we are 'looking to the future' or what not. Then theres no reason my job doesn't fit and fill the same quota as that of a school teacher.
Just another venue to look at, i think churches in general get looked over. But especially in the dnd community the church isn't really a shinning light for being of sound mind and thus we get ignored. but this could actually be a great step in the right direction to show how the two (dnd and Jesus) can go together. :)
I'll be real, i think teachers don't get enough discounts in life, so i think one on dndbeyond would be great. Or any sort of educator for that matter (librarian, counselor, etc.). However, i would like to add to that group Pastors. I know that seems super weird for DnD. But i'm a youth pastor. I work with 'kids' ages 12-29. I use DnD as a great outreach opportunity as well as entertainment for that group. If we are throwing around discounts for educators because of their scope of influence or because we are 'looking to the future' or what not. Then theres no reason my job doesn't fit and fill the same quota as that of a school teacher.
Just another venue to look at, i think churches in general get looked over. But especially in the dnd community the church isn't really a shinning light for being of sound mind and thus we get ignored. but this could actually be a great step in the right direction to show how the two (dnd and Jesus) can go together. :)
I don't see why a pastor cant be qualified as an educator, or in general someone working in an educative format with children! I suppose you might just need to provide something that proves you are running a youth group or some-such, but I don't know why it shouldn't count!
I would be willing to buy a subscription if the subscription gave me access to the premium material from the books.
I am willing to purchase the "books" but not If there is also also a subscription fee.
WotC has severely hurt itself by allowing Amazon to heavily discount the rule books. As far as I am concerned the "value" of a "PHB" is $30 not the MSRP of $50. This undermines local game stores who can not compete with Amazon on price and if you hurt the games stores you impede the growth of the hobby. It also detracts from the perceived value of any purchase of the same content for online use. For me, I perceive owning the physical book has being a better value than rights to access it online. Therefore if the physical book cost $30 it stands to reason the right to access that content online is worth less than that in my personal estimation. If you argue what has value is the content and not the medium then you get into the argument about users who have bought the content in book form and now asking them to purchase the rights to access the same content again in digital form.
If I must pay a subscription fee to use the service and a cost to purchase each book I am not likely to use the service at all and you will not get any of my money.
My least favorite idea is micro transactions for individual elements ... I have no desire to pay $0.99 for access to the "The Mystic" and see offering content this way as only leading to confusion as everyone will sit down at the game table with their own subset of the rules. It's bad enough when you have to rule on what "books" are allowed. It will be a nightmare if every spell, item, class, archetype, and feat is available for purchase individually.
I have issues with the "Rights to Access" ... if I don't get a digital copy of the content I am purchasing that I can put on my computer and laptop and phone and store on a dvd and save a backup copy then charging the same price for the physical book is ridiculous.
Homebrew
I foresee significant problems with the Homebrew section of the service.
If I enter content in the Homebrew section is there the possibility that someone from WotC reads it and it ends up in their next Rules Supplement. Am I ceding any rights away by using your service and storing my notes here.
Is the Homebrew section going to be scanned for infringing material. Say for example I don't buy the DMG through DNDBeyond and instead I scan my book for certain passages and tables I use frequently and save them in the "Homebrew" section. This would be considered "Fair Use" if I were doing this on paper for my personal use at my table. Is such an allowance going to be made or are any copies of infringing material going to be removed from the Homebrew section.
If you are going to make allowances how are you going to determine whether the source of the material is from a physical book the user owns or an illegitimate source like a pirated pdf or a copy and paste from another user.
If infringing material is going to be removed from the Homebrew section are you going to notify users first and allow for an appeal or will we login and not find our content?
Are you going to scan for infringing material from other companies? For example if my game uses the magic system from GURPS and I copy and paste the relevant information from their rules to the homebrew section are the internet police going to make me take it down?
Suggestions
I would still like to see WotC develop a way to charge us for the content and not the product (IE I purchase the content in the PHB) and can then access that content from a variety of websites, apps, programs, etc. that all validate back to WotC via an API. Each developer would have to pay a license fee to use the service and then charge a subscription fee or purchase price appropriate to their business model.
If we are going to have to buy the content online in order to access it online then don't charge more than the commonly available (Amazon) price and make it attractive to purchase the digital and physical content together. For example; Access to content from "Tales from the Yawning Portal" should not cost more than the $30 it costs on Amazon. And when someone goes to purchase it offer them both the digital access and the physical book for $50.
Allow users to designate a "Home." This would be a registered game store or club. 1%-2% of all purchases made by the user would go to the store or club as a discount on their account or for goods or services or possibly for rewards available only through this system.
We Already know how much its gonna cost. but i'll tell you why this is Dead on Arrival.
First off, they give us access to the SRD something we already have had for like years now, and also tons of websites who already did this when SRD came out.
Next off, Fantaisy Ground is already free to grab as an application. it contains SRD already established. and it also allows you to add all the books. so basically an app for characters creation, monster interactioins, creating encounters and all that DM stuff. is already there and has been for like 2 years now.
third and final point as to why this is dead on arrival. is that we already know how costy it will be. Fantaisy ground even make you pay for free stuff like player companion. and the books themselves cost the full 50$ basically as if you were buying physical copies while we know making them digital didn't cost them more then 1/3rd what the physical book costed. and if you go with subscription from fantaisy ground we're talking 15$ to have access to everything as long as you pay for it. thats ludicrous considering that after like a year you'll have paid your stuff and anything beyond that means you are paying double the ammount.
Conclusion, it seems curse gaming only wants a part of what Roll20 and Fantaisy Ground are having. i Already pay and have been for a while on Fantaisy Ground. im not gonna pay for another software that does the very same shit. and that is giving me a database. to me this seems like just another attempt at getting a part of the pie. Roll20 and Fantaisy Ground both already do this. so why would we need to pay a third time for the books we already have. At least Fantaisy Ground allow you to buy your stuff as DLC and thats way better then subscriptions. even though the cost are huge.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
I foresee significant problems with the Homebrew section of the service.
If I enter content in the Homebrew section is there the possibility that someone from WotC reads it and it ends up in their next Rules Supplement. Am I ceding any rights away by using your service and storing my notes here.
Is the Homebrew section going to be scanned for infringing material. Say for example I don't buy the DMG through DNDBeyond and instead I scan my book for certain passages and tables I use frequently and save them in the "Homebrew" section. This would be considered "Fair Use" if I were doing this on paper for my personal use at my table. Is such an allowance going to be made or are any copies of infringing material going to be removed from the Homebrew section.
If you are going to make allowances how are you going to determine whether the source of the material is from a physical book the user owns or an illegitimate source like a pirated pdf or a copy and paste from another user.
If infringing material is going to be removed from the Homebrew section are you going to notify users first and allow for an appeal or will we login and not find our content?
Are you going to scan for infringing material from other companies? For example if my game uses the magic system from GURPS and I copy and paste the relevant information from their rules to the homebrew section are the internet police going to make me take it down?
On the whole a great comment, and I agree with a lot of it, but I think you raise some points in this section that are especially important.
I hadn't considered it at all until you said it, but I think it's very important that WotC ensure that homebrew creators retain the rights to the material they write. Some people create content to sell on places like DMsGuild, and they might want to put it on here first for playtesting with their own groups. If they cede their rights by putting it up here then that makes things a lot more complicated.
One thing that could work well for HB is including some sort of marketplace, which would effectively be an alternative to e.g. DMs Guild. Any private homebrew automatically belongs only to the creator, but they can put it up on the "marketplace" either (1) for free, publically available, people can do whatever with it; (2) for free, retaining certain rights (like requiring attribution, or not allowing people to "resell" it); or (3) for a price, no reselling allowed. Something like that would allow WotC to pick up on the top-quality, popular HB and approach the creators with the possibility of making it official content.
The question about infringing material is also a good one. Allowing people to enter books they own as "homebrew" is one way around "I don't want to pay again for content that I already own", but as you say it does open the door to piracy. It seems to me that manual checking of homebrew material won't really be feasible; an automated "infringement scanner" would be possible, but doesn't solve the problem entirely, as there will be ways around that. If there is some "anti-infringement" mechanism in place, I certainly hope that its done by notification with a chance for appeal.
In terms of content from other companies, I don't think they can really be expected to monitor all homebrew content for that, but if they get a request from some company for a takedown then I think they would be required to honour that. I especially hope that that aspect is dealt with by notification+appeal, rather than silent removal, otherwise there is massive opportunity for abuse there. However, it would only be possible for another company to detect this and send a takedown request for stuff that's publically available, so I think that it's ok to have that system in place, so long as it has the necessary checks and balances to prevent abuse.
Having just said that, however, I am now also wondering how things will work regarding private and public homebrew. I definitely think that both should be an option. The product lead, Adam (aka BadEye) has told me that whilst homebrew creation in general will be free, certain aspects of homebrew integration will require a subscription. I'm now wondering if you'll maybe need a subscription to make homebrew public - or on the other hand, if you'll maybe need a subscription to keep it private! I don't particularly like the sound of either, though I think the latter would be worse. If they do go with the homebrew marketplace idea, I suppose that private and unrestricted public homebrew could be free, but only subscribers get the ability to sell it for money (among other benefits). That would actually make a fair bit of sense.
We Already know how much its gonna cost. but i'll tell you why this is Dead on Arrival.
First off, they give us access to the SRD something we already have had for like years now, and also tons of websites who already did this when SRD came out.
Next off, Fantaisy Ground is already free to grab as an application. it contains SRD already established. and it also allows you to add all the books. so basically an app for characters creation, monster interactioins, creating encounters and all that DM stuff. is already there and has been for like 2 years now.
third and final point as to why this is dead on arrival. is that we already know how costy it will be. Fantaisy ground even make you pay for free stuff like player companion. and the books themselves cost the full 50$ basically as if you were buying physical copies while we know making them digital didn't cost them more then 1/3rd what the physical book costed. and if you go with subscription from fantaisy ground we're talking 15$ to have access to everything as long as you pay for it. thats ludicrous considering that after like a year you'll have paid your stuff and anything beyond that means you are paying double the ammount.
Conclusion, it seems curse gaming only wants a part of what Roll20 and Fantaisy Ground are having. i Already pay and have been for a while on Fantaisy Ground. im not gonna pay for another software that does the very same shit. and that is giving me a database. to me this seems like just another attempt at getting a part of the pie. Roll20 and Fantaisy Ground both already do this. so why would we need to pay a third time for the books we already have. At least Fantaisy Ground allow you to buy your stuff as DLC and thats way better then subscriptions. even though the cost are huge.
I think you're being overly pessimistic about this. WotC and Curse will both be very interesting in making sure this is a success, and I think that stuff like the poll on this thread ("How are you willing to pay for DND:B?") shows that they are willing to adapt to what the community wants in order to increase its chance of success.
Yes it is just SRD at the moment, but remember: this is a beta. We're just testing out how the site works at the moment, and we're only in phase 1, the most basic stage. By the time it releases properly, the free tier will have (at least) SRD content, a character creator and sheet, and the possibility of creating homebrew. It may be that the free tier also includes some of the campaign management tools.
Regardless of what the price is for non-SRD content, that will become available later. If they're sensible, you'll also get stuff like EEPG and UA for free, in the same place, integrated in the same tool.
Fantasy Grounds may offer much of the same stuff, but D&D:B is coming direct from WotC (via Curse, whatever). Because WotC own the content, they are free to repackage and reprice it as they wish. The backlash on this site has told them quite clearly that most users do not want to pay full price to get content they already own; if WotC want the site to be a success, they should ensure there's some way of people getting content at a reduced price compared to physical books, whether that's just for people who already own them or for everyone. That's something that WotC can do, and something that Fantasy Grounds cannot do unless WotC permit them to.
Also they have confirmed that you'll have the option of either subscription or one-time payment for content, so when you're saying "At least Fantaisy Ground allow you to buy your stuff as DLC", you will also have that option here. And like I say, if they want it to be a success, they'll ensure it's cheaper than Fantasy Grounds.
You'd need something more individual than a barcode, or else someone could just scan their friends barcode. Barcodes are not individual to each book printed.
It sounds like there will be a free level to the DDB, but I would to lend some support to making sure that this does indeed happen for SRD content and some level of character creation. The one thing that I benefited from with D&D when I started playing as a kid in 1979 was little to no cost for literally hours and hours of entertainment. Admittedly, I was lucky enough to have a DM that was a school teacher and he purchased modules, etc. All I really needed was paper, graph paper, dice, and a pencil. Later, I did save money for the Player's Handbook but that was the sum total of my investment for years. I would like to see the younger generation have that same possibility, especially with so many games now being collectible. Now certainly you still do not need to be digital at all to play D&D but I think there is a level of expectation for the digital age for a game to offer this.
The good thing is that D&D nominally has a low level of investment as it is. Unless you are a DM. But even then, you decide what you can afford or what you can't. As a DM, I very much hope that this will be within my means.
When thinking about payment models, I think it is important to consider the various needs of the audience. One of the biggest flaws with DDI (aside form over-promising and under-delivering) was only having one, all-or-nothing, option. Players weren't interested in paying for DM content. If you go a subscription route rather than one-time fee per book, I recommend having a player level, a DM level, and a shareable group level. That said, it's important that it's worth if for a DM if you are going to charge more... DDI never had a monster builder get out of beta, and other DM tools that were teased (for encounter building, treasure, etc.) never manifested.
This. I have no experience with DDI but if you want me to fork over a subscription there has to be features that are well worth it and I think the killer feature is efficiency. If this is a tool that I can use quickly build homebrew items, monsters that auto-calc CR, encounters, NPCs, dungeons, cities, and various other things that take up a significant amount of DM prep time, then i would be all in.
On top of the PHB, MM, DMG, Volo's, SCAG, various adventure models, it's a lot of money. And for an online resource that you can simply just google and find any/everything for free, it's a bit crazy to expect someone to pay for it. I've purchased hundreds of dollars worth of items of D&D items from Wizards so far, I really don't want to, and won't, spend money for an online version of what I already have.
Not to play devils advocate but the opposite issue can also arise. DnD eTools from back in the 3.5e days parted out content book by book making the entire product feel perpetually overcharged and constantly incomplete regardless of whether you were a Player or a DM. And of course a lack of buy in from gamers resulted in a slew of promised features never appearing.
Gamers, regardless of what pricing model is used, always need to feel that the product is worth it.The product value needs to be commensurate with price. That's where multiple pricing schemes struggle because you have to judge each part of your audience separately. What will a casual gamer use that a hard core one will not. What does a common DM use that a DM that attends conventions won't. Where do you draw the line and who is allowed to grumble in the corner because they are on the unhappy side of your line. Its an unenviable task Curse has before them.
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I know they need to make a living as it where for the corporation that is Hasbro , but do share holders get the DnD book for free? or discounted I sure would purchase a few shares just for that, as for later editions I think Fifth is fine and they really should stop redesigning that whole damn game ever eight years. they should just come out with Dungeons and Dragons alterative book editions instead. like would you like your game more crunchy alternative book 3.75. did you like the forth version here is alternative book 4.5.
I also think its time to bring back
star Frontiers with fifth edition
Top Secret
boot hill
and campaign books like Dark matter and Stardrive
lets not for get Gamma world
Dragon Quest
better get hustling Star finder is due out August!
Very much agreed! I feel like it's pretty rare to see this kind of interaction and transparency, and I find it refreshing and reassuring.
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
Here is something else to consider. I'm a teacher, I run an RPG Club (20ish kids) for my school and I would like to be able to have a group license or a group discount. I started the club about a year ago with 3 kids and they got hooked and it just grew from there.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract. -RAH
It is easier to stay out than get out. -Twain
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable. -RAH
I think Teachers and Public educator as as well as Libraries should get a discount or free books, one teacher can bring 150 students to Dungeons and Dragons just with in their tenure !
what about a program to start Dungeons and Dragons legends in public libraries and schools too. their is not always a store in a town but their are always schools and libraries !
lets be about the future instead of the present. let us come toward one another instead of away, lets secure the next generation in a fashion that well change all generations.
there is still questions or what the future of game stare are going to become, but their is never a question of weather we will have schools or Public and School Libraries!
Sorry.
I'll be real, i think teachers don't get enough discounts in life, so i think one on dndbeyond would be great. Or any sort of educator for that matter (librarian, counselor, etc.). However, i would like to add to that group Pastors. I know that seems super weird for DnD. But i'm a youth pastor. I work with 'kids' ages 12-29. I use DnD as a great outreach opportunity as well as entertainment for that group. If we are throwing around discounts for educators because of their scope of influence or because we are 'looking to the future' or what not. Then theres no reason my job doesn't fit and fill the same quota as that of a school teacher.
Just another venue to look at, i think churches in general get looked over. But especially in the dnd community the church isn't really a shinning light for being of sound mind and thus we get ignored. but this could actually be a great step in the right direction to show how the two (dnd and Jesus) can go together. :)
Rev. 6:8
Pricing
Homebrew
Suggestions
We Already know how much its gonna cost. but i'll tell you why this is Dead on Arrival.
First off, they give us access to the SRD something we already have had for like years now, and also tons of websites who already did this when SRD came out.
Next off, Fantaisy Ground is already free to grab as an application. it contains SRD already established. and it also allows you to add all the books. so basically an app for characters creation, monster interactioins, creating encounters and all that DM stuff. is already there and has been for like 2 years now.
third and final point as to why this is dead on arrival. is that we already know how costy it will be. Fantaisy ground even make you pay for free stuff like player companion. and the books themselves cost the full 50$ basically as if you were buying physical copies while we know making them digital didn't cost them more then 1/3rd what the physical book costed. and if you go with subscription from fantaisy ground we're talking 15$ to have access to everything as long as you pay for it. thats ludicrous considering that after like a year you'll have paid your stuff and anything beyond that means you are paying double the ammount.
Conclusion, it seems curse gaming only wants a part of what Roll20 and Fantaisy Ground are having. i Already pay and have been for a while on Fantaisy Ground. im not gonna pay for another software that does the very same shit. and that is giving me a database. to me this seems like just another attempt at getting a part of the pie. Roll20 and Fantaisy Ground both already do this. so why would we need to pay a third time for the books we already have. At least Fantaisy Ground allow you to buy your stuff as DLC and thats way better then subscriptions. even though the cost are huge.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Just an idea but what if scanning a barcode on the newest book would unlock that season of dnd beyond?
You'd need something more individual than a barcode, or else someone could just scan their friends barcode. Barcodes are not individual to each book printed.
It sounds like there will be a free level to the DDB, but I would to lend some support to making sure that this does indeed happen for SRD content and some level of character creation. The one thing that I benefited from with D&D when I started playing as a kid in 1979 was little to no cost for literally hours and hours of entertainment. Admittedly, I was lucky enough to have a DM that was a school teacher and he purchased modules, etc. All I really needed was paper, graph paper, dice, and a pencil. Later, I did save money for the Player's Handbook but that was the sum total of my investment for years. I would like to see the younger generation have that same possibility, especially with so many games now being collectible. Now certainly you still do not need to be digital at all to play D&D but I think there is a level of expectation for the digital age for a game to offer this.
The good thing is that D&D nominally has a low level of investment as it is. Unless you are a DM. But even then, you decide what you can afford or what you can't. As a DM, I very much hope that this will be within my means.
No, I am not willing to pay for 5e again.
On top of the PHB, MM, DMG, Volo's, SCAG, various adventure models, it's a lot of money. And for an online resource that you can simply just google and find any/everything for free, it's a bit crazy to expect someone to pay for it. I've purchased hundreds of dollars worth of items of D&D items from Wizards so far, I really don't want to, and won't, spend money for an online version of what I already have.
Thanks.
Not to play devils advocate but the opposite issue can also arise. DnD eTools from back in the 3.5e days parted out content book by book making the entire product feel perpetually overcharged and constantly incomplete regardless of whether you were a Player or a DM. And of course a lack of buy in from gamers resulted in a slew of promised features never appearing.
Gamers, regardless of what pricing model is used, always need to feel that the product is worth it.The product value needs to be commensurate with price. That's where multiple pricing schemes struggle because you have to judge each part of your audience separately. What will a casual gamer use that a hard core one will not. What does a common DM use that a DM that attends conventions won't. Where do you draw the line and who is allowed to grumble in the corner because they are on the unhappy side of your line. Its an unenviable task Curse has before them.