I want the Cleric class in the Players Handbook to present a multicultural, interfaith, flavor.
Clerics are diverse, and the class itself should be able to represent a spiritual leader from diverse ethnic traditions, especially any minority religions.
The Players Handbook itself can update to welcome new players and old players, to roleplay an adherent of any kind of "cosmic power".
• Animist (compare Primal reverence of the features of nature) • Elementalist (compare Dark Sun Cleric) • Ancestor Revering (compare Eberron Elves) • Philosophical (compare the Paladin ethical philosophy) • Polytheist (Forgotten Realms cosmology) • Monotheist (perhaps Positive Energy, but also Eberron Silver Flame) • And so on (there are many different kinds of sacred traditions)
The Players Handbook needs to welcome all of these D&D traditions. More importantly, the Players Handbook needs to welcome the reallife players who come from various reallife ethnicities and various reallife religions − each with its own kinds values − as well as reallife curiosities about other spiritual heritages.
Let each player decide which "higher power" feels comfortable or interesting.
Right now, WotC is combing thru D&D 5e products to make sure players from reallife ethnic groups feel welcome at a D&D table. This effort especially needs to include diverse religious groups.
The freedom of choice of a reallife player to customize their own character concept, needs to include their own Cleric character concept. Freedom also helps the game. A diversified Cleric class that is more versatile makes the Players Handbook easier to use for the other D&D settings and homebrew settings that disresemble the Forgotten Realms setting.
I mean, you’re already free to do any of that. There is no rule against it.
If your suggestion is that WotC re-write some of the descriptive text to eliminate the two or three places where it assumes each cleric worships a single deity (and actually I think Adventurer’s League does make this an explicit rule, which is really stupid), then yeah, sure. Not a bad idea.
How clerics work depends on the world and world-building. I don't think any of the things the OP lists would be prevented by the current rules -- unless the OP is asking for multiple domains per cleric. I don't know if that would be possible the way 5e is currently constituted, as the domain of a cleric is equivalent to the sub-class of another class (like taking Beastmaster for ranger). I realize that limiting a cleric to one domain may "limit player imagination" for some folks, but... I think that we sometimes do have to bow to the fact that this is a game and there have to be some mechanics behind it. Just like a Ranger can't be both a beastmaster AND a gloom stalker, a cleric can't be BOTH a Light Cleric and a Grave Cleric.
But you could easily worship multiple gods who share a domain... it's just up to the DM to provide that option to the player by his or her cosmology.
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This depends less on WotC and more on the setting you yourself use. Take the Forgotten Realms, for example. Pretty much everyone in that setting is some flavor of polytheist, because in a world where the gods directly and objectively interact with the world, it'd be kinda silly not to be. Now, there can still be a variety of faiths. Henotheism is a form of polytheism where certain gods are put on a higher pedestal than others, and within the Forgotten Realms, that is often the case from settlement to settlement. In major cities, few people would worship Malar, but in the countryside where people are more dependent on wild meat, they might pay him homage. Ditto for Auril in warmer climates. Then you have Eberron, where most people believe in a higher power, but with almost no direct intervention being objectively provable to all (save for Tira Miron founding the Church of the Silver Flame, but even that can be reinterpreted), it allows for even more divergent faiths to exist.
I want the Cleric class in the Players Handbook to present a multicultural, interfaith, flavor.
Clerics are diverse, and the class itself should be able to represent a spiritual leader from diverse ethnic traditions, especially any minority religions.
The Players Handbook itself can update to welcome new players and old players, to roleplay an adherent of any kind of "cosmic power".
• Animist (compare Primal reverence of the features of nature) • Elementalist (compare Dark Sun Cleric) • Ancestor Revering (compare Eberron Elves) • Philosophical (compare the Paladin ethical philosophy) • Polytheist (Forgotten Realms cosmology) • Monotheist (perhaps Positive Energy, but also Eberron Silver Flame) • And so on (there are many different kinds of sacred traditions)
The Players Handbook needs to welcome all of these D&D traditions. More importantly, the Players Handbook needs to welcome the reallife players who come from various reallife ethnicities and various reallife religions − each with its own kinds values − as well as reallife curiosities about other spiritual heritages.
Let each player decide which "higher power" feels comfortable or interesting.
Right now, WotC is combing thru D&D 5e products to make sure players from reallife ethnic groups feel welcome at a D&D table. This effort especially needs to include diverse religious groups.
The freedom of choice of a reallife player to customize their own character concept, needs to include their own Cleric character concept. Freedom also helps the game. A diversified Cleric class that is more versatile makes the Players Handbook easier to use for the other D&D settings and homebrew settings that disresemble the Forgotten Realms setting.
If anything, the Cleric class is probably the best way to express any specific faith based interpretations. With the exception of polytheistic themes since generally in all D&D games you get your power from the primary source of origin of your faith, but that could easily be changed to “I don’t get my power from the Sune, I get it from a conglomeration of her pantheon”.
None of those ideals are game breaking, but from a mechanics standpoint there is nothing stopping you from saying ANY of those things. The only thing, like previously mentioned is if you are looking to change the mechanics of a domain to be more “Fluid” in terms of multiple domain options or maybe a different set of options to show that you aren’t devoted to a specific god but any of the things you suggested.
I think most of the things you are recommending can already be done with the current class design, some new subclasses might be needed for certain aspects, though. Let's go through them:
• Animist (compare Primal reverence of the features of nature)
You can use the Nature Cleric as this, just choose not to worship a deity.
• Elementalist (compare Dark Sun Cleric)
Light domain clerics are basically fire clerics, but there could be 4 more subclasses for each of the elements (a lot of classes need this, actually, especially Sorcerers).
• Ancestor Revering (compare Eberron Elves)
I honestly have no idea how you would do this with the current D&D ruleset, but there could be a subclass of Cleric or Warlock that can do this. Ancestral Guardian Barbarians are the closest thing to this.
• Philosophical (compare the Paladin ethical philosophy)
I don't know how you would do this. This doesn't sound like a subclass, more like a way of roleplaying your character.
• Polytheist (Forgotten Realms cosmology)
Nothing in the core rules prevents you from being a War Cleric that worships Torm, Tyr, and Bahamut, or an Arcana Cleric that worships Mystra, Azuth, and Savras, or a Grave Cleric that worships the Raven Queen, Kelemvor, and Jergal. This is a roleplay aspect as well, not a mechanical one.
• Monotheist (perhaps Positive Energy, but also Eberron Silver Flame)
This is kind of already the basic understanding of the current class design, but not a hard rule. Most clerics only worship one god. Eberron: Rising from the Last War lists the cleric domains that the Silver Flame can grant you.
I'm not trying to crap on your idea, but understand what exactly you want to see. With your vague suggestions, there is already tools for doing this in the current 5e Cleric Class design.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
The Player's Handbook is a rulebook for a game. A game is under no obligation to cater to or appeal to every potential players likes. It is instead, the potential players obligation to find a game that is suitable to their tastes. It's D&D. Make any changes you want. Incorporate the elements you want. If something breaks as a result, either deal and play it anyway or just find something that works better.
This doesn't feel like something WotC needs to rewrite the PHB for. Some of these ideas are already there, either explicitly or implicitly.
The rest, I'd say Gvarayi could accomplish by tinkering around with D&D Beyond's homebrew subclass tools. Maybe watch the video on the official DDB YouTube channel with Todd and Lauren discussing Lauren's homebrow Phoenix domain subclass for the cleric to get some ideas. Have fun homebrewing and let us know what you come up with, I guess.
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I want the Cleric class in the Players Handbook to present a multicultural, interfaith, flavor.
Clerics are diverse, and the class itself should be able to represent a spiritual leader from diverse ethnic traditions, especially any minority religions.
The Players Handbook itself can update to welcome new players and old players, to roleplay an adherent of any kind of "cosmic power".
• Animist (compare Primal reverence of the features of nature)
• Elementalist (compare Dark Sun Cleric)
• Ancestor Revering (compare Eberron Elves)
• Philosophical (compare the Paladin ethical philosophy)
• Polytheist (Forgotten Realms cosmology)
• Monotheist (perhaps Positive Energy, but also Eberron Silver Flame)
• And so on (there are many different kinds of sacred traditions)
The Players Handbook needs to welcome all of these D&D traditions. More importantly, the Players Handbook needs to welcome the reallife players who come from various reallife ethnicities and various reallife religions − each with its own kinds values − as well as reallife curiosities about other spiritual heritages.
Let each player decide which "higher power" feels comfortable or interesting.
Right now, WotC is combing thru D&D 5e products to make sure players from reallife ethnic groups feel welcome at a D&D table. This effort especially needs to include diverse religious groups.
The freedom of choice of a reallife player to customize their own character concept, needs to include their own Cleric character concept. Freedom also helps the game. A diversified Cleric class that is more versatile makes the Players Handbook easier to use for the other D&D settings and homebrew settings that disresemble the Forgotten Realms setting.
he / him
This is not an attack on your idea but a serious question.
Which of these can you not do?
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I mean, you’re already free to do any of that. There is no rule against it.
If your suggestion is that WotC re-write some of the descriptive text to eliminate the two or three places where it assumes each cleric worships a single deity (and actually I think Adventurer’s League does make this an explicit rule, which is really stupid), then yeah, sure. Not a bad idea.
How clerics work depends on the world and world-building. I don't think any of the things the OP lists would be prevented by the current rules -- unless the OP is asking for multiple domains per cleric. I don't know if that would be possible the way 5e is currently constituted, as the domain of a cleric is equivalent to the sub-class of another class (like taking Beastmaster for ranger). I realize that limiting a cleric to one domain may "limit player imagination" for some folks, but... I think that we sometimes do have to bow to the fact that this is a game and there have to be some mechanics behind it. Just like a Ranger can't be both a beastmaster AND a gloom stalker, a cleric can't be BOTH a Light Cleric and a Grave Cleric.
But you could easily worship multiple gods who share a domain... it's just up to the DM to provide that option to the player by his or her cosmology.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
This depends less on WotC and more on the setting you yourself use. Take the Forgotten Realms, for example. Pretty much everyone in that setting is some flavor of polytheist, because in a world where the gods directly and objectively interact with the world, it'd be kinda silly not to be. Now, there can still be a variety of faiths. Henotheism is a form of polytheism where certain gods are put on a higher pedestal than others, and within the Forgotten Realms, that is often the case from settlement to settlement. In major cities, few people would worship Malar, but in the countryside where people are more dependent on wild meat, they might pay him homage. Ditto for Auril in warmer climates. Then you have Eberron, where most people believe in a higher power, but with almost no direct intervention being objectively provable to all (save for Tira Miron founding the Church of the Silver Flame, but even that can be reinterpreted), it allows for even more divergent faiths to exist.
If anything, the Cleric class is probably the best way to express any specific faith based interpretations. With the exception of polytheistic themes since generally in all D&D games you get your power from the primary source of origin of your faith, but that could easily be changed to “I don’t get my power from the Sune, I get it from a conglomeration of her pantheon”.
None of those ideals are game breaking, but from a mechanics standpoint there is nothing stopping you from saying ANY of those things. The only thing, like previously mentioned is if you are looking to change the mechanics of a domain to be more “Fluid” in terms of multiple domain options or maybe a different set of options to show that you aren’t devoted to a specific god but any of the things you suggested.
You can use the Nature Cleric as this, just choose not to worship a deity.
Light domain clerics are basically fire clerics, but there could be 4 more subclasses for each of the elements (a lot of classes need this, actually, especially Sorcerers).
I honestly have no idea how you would do this with the current D&D ruleset, but there could be a subclass of Cleric or Warlock that can do this. Ancestral Guardian Barbarians are the closest thing to this.
I don't know how you would do this. This doesn't sound like a subclass, more like a way of roleplaying your character.
Nothing in the core rules prevents you from being a War Cleric that worships Torm, Tyr, and Bahamut, or an Arcana Cleric that worships Mystra, Azuth, and Savras, or a Grave Cleric that worships the Raven Queen, Kelemvor, and Jergal. This is a roleplay aspect as well, not a mechanical one.
This is kind of already the basic understanding of the current class design, but not a hard rule. Most clerics only worship one god. Eberron: Rising from the Last War lists the cleric domains that the Silver Flame can grant you.
I'm not trying to crap on your idea, but understand what exactly you want to see. With your vague suggestions, there is already tools for doing this in the current 5e Cleric Class design.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Sounds to me, thematically, like the Order Domain, but it feels inherently flawed and heavily twisted by exposure to the Selesnya guild from Ravnica.
Eloquence Bard maybe?
The Player's Handbook is a rulebook for a game. A game is under no obligation to cater to or appeal to every potential players likes. It is instead, the potential players obligation to find a game that is suitable to their tastes. It's D&D. Make any changes you want. Incorporate the elements you want. If something breaks as a result, either deal and play it anyway or just find something that works better.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
The Knowledge domain feels closest to being philosophy related of any Cleric domain. Otherwise, yeah, Eloquence Bard.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
This doesn't feel like something WotC needs to rewrite the PHB for. Some of these ideas are already there, either explicitly or implicitly.
The rest, I'd say Gvarayi could accomplish by tinkering around with D&D Beyond's homebrew subclass tools. Maybe watch the video on the official DDB YouTube channel with Todd and Lauren discussing Lauren's homebrow Phoenix domain subclass for the cleric to get some ideas. Have fun homebrewing and let us know what you come up with, I guess.