I want to point out that the crux of this thread is about being considerate and inclusive of others and how our language can better engender that. That sentiment should also be carried over to how everyone on this thread interacts with each other; if you can't be respectful of each other and adhere to site rules, there will be ramifications including warnings and potentially the thread being locked.
Strange trivia: I know 9 people in New Zealand. None of them consider Kiwi to be offensive. They also do not consider Kiwi to be a word that only they can use to refer to the people and cultures in New Zealands. Yet, I keep coming across people who are not from and/or never have been to New Zealand who insist that Kiwi is an offensive word. (I, too, was under the false impression that Kiwi was offensive. Now, I feel comfortable to use the word with those people.)
This is how I envision the views of the greater 5e Halfling and Dwarf communities regarding the words, Halfling and Dwarf. Other people think it's might be offensive, but the communities themselves see no issue with it.
Now, there's the flip side. I know a person in Newfoundland. He says that Newfie is offensive - highly offensive - to the people and cultures in Newfoundland. Yet, I see a lot of people using that word thinking nothing of it, totally ignorant of the fact that anyone finds it offensive. (I learned of the word and it's interpreted connotation from this person. So, I was lucky enough to never use the word in the first place.)
I suspect that there are 5e slangs for people who find the slangs to be offensive but others are unaware that it is.
5e is a living word, but it is also a customizable one. If you choose to have Halflings and Dwarves find the terms offensive in your worlds, that is your choice just as it is for others to choose that those two words are not offensive to anyone.
So what if it's in the sources? The sources put forth the basic setting that Halflings and Dwarves do not find the phrase offensive. It is up to you to change that in your scenarios as WotC keeps having to remind us that we are allowed to do so. Please, do not try to dictate what others can and cannot do. There are often more than one view of such things as the examples above show. WotC picked one of the two disparate viewpoints. Floundering on the issue would result in nothing being published. If you disagree with WotC's setting, you are allowed to change it for yours. WotC doesn't need to change theirs for you.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I think the context of “Halfling” also needs to be taken into account. In LotR where the word first appeared, Halflings are the shortest of many races (unlike in D&D, where there are many small races). They are also by far the “youngest” race, and far less numerous than humans, and perhaps even elves and dwarves. Certainly they are less spread out and “visible” due to the Shire’s isolation. In this context, “Halfling” makes sense: after all, they are half the size of other races, though they do call themselves Hobbits. And people don’t use the word as an insult at all, because while it’s true that Halflings are literally half the size of everyone else, nobody really sees that as inherently a bad thing. (In fact, there’s a case to be made that getting upset over the idea of Halflings is founded in the idea that being tall is inherently better...just a thought.)
Of course, just because something makes perfect sense in LotR doesn’t mean it translates well to the D&D world, but Tolkien is so important to fantasy at this point that I don’t think you can change something like this. “Hobbit” would be better, of course, but for the average new player familiar with fantasy, the word “Halfling” brings up a library of classic associations that another word wouldn’t. That’s why it can’t be changed.
Halfling is an "exonym", a name that foreigners use, rather than natives. Sometimes, natives adopt an exonym, and make it their own, especially if they are familiar with the foreigners.
Are those with dwarfism up in arms about this stuff? Are halflings up in arm..never mind that one.
Use common sense. It's 100% obvious that the terms dwarf and halfling were never meant to be offensive. They are labels. Descriptors. Things that allow a 6yr old to read and quickly identify and separate from a human or orc or goliath. That's all they are. Especially in the case of halflings or hobs, or hobbits, or whatever. It's a made up thing that we all understand. Only recently (this generation?) have folk tried to find some greater meaning to it. An issue is an issue, in all cases, among all, and at all times. Was there massive pushback from those with the condition of dwarfism to remove the term/label/name dwarf from D&D? I don't remember this if so. It all starts to sound like a whole lot of virtue signaling at this point.
There's no problem, ill-intention, misguided, misjudged, incorrect, evil, wrong, inconsiderate thing at play here folks. Use common sense. Halflings can and never will be anything more than what it is - a name. We have nothing to compare it to. At all. It doesn't exist. You can call them Fargopods, which is entirely made up. Without using common sense, someone, somewhere will be up in arms at some point because they are from Fargo, North Dakota and the actions and perception of Fargopods are ill-meaning. Give me a break.
Dwarves, I get it 1%. 99% still says there's 0 issue. If those with dwarfism cry foul, then we should listen. They're going through it and if in some way, the perception of dwarves in a fantasy game contributes to any other hardship for them, we should all listen. If they're quiet, we should also be.
It's similar to other real world issues like kneeling for the flag. You know who I've seen have less opinions on it than any other? Those that serve/have served. If you aren't in, or never have been in the military then yes, your opinion on this matter is worth significantly less.
Ultimately, this just shows that despite any logic to the contrary, D&D world-building by most people in the past and in the present has centered on "common" human beings, generally at the expense of creating more complex and believable non-human species/races. Our human desires to make sense of the world and to explain or elaborate on it through story-telling are paired with a great desire to see ourselves reflected in that world, thus, we have:
* Variant Humans that get an extra feat for no apparent reason despite there being several races that have longer lifespans than Humans
* A bunch of "half" races like Half-Orcs, Dragonborn, and Tieflings which the lore generally assumes to be of part or majority human ancestry though there is no explanation for why Humans would be thirstier or more genetically suitable for procreation with other humanoids, Dragons and Fiends than any other group of creatures.
* Terms like "Halfling" in common usage because: "Hey, why should an autonomous cultural and political group Not want to refer to themselves in the same way that their far larger and clumsier neighbors would, amiright?"
A bit late to this discussion, bit I find it amusing that some think "Halfling" is insulting to the Halfling race in D&D because of a pre-conceived notion of theirs that being taller is better!?
Maybe Halflings look at all the other races, at how they have to eat so much, take up so much room, take so much material to clothe themselves, etc.. and consider THEM to be inferior! Thus they would identify themselves as "half" such a big wasteful creature in a positive way. They would be proud to be "Halflings".
The whole premise of the OP, with respect to the term "Halfling" (no comment on Dwarf or Dwarves), is wrong, because they apply their own pre-conceived perception that being bigger is better. Thus being half of something better is derogatory.
(edit and my apologies if this has been brought up previously)
Just to add my 2 pence worth, this is taken from a wikiedia entry so maybe take with a pinch of salt:
Etymology
Originally, halfling comes from the Scots word hauflin, meaning an awkward rustic teenager, who is neither man nor boy, and so half of both. Another word for halfling is hobbledehoy or hobby. This usage of the word pre-dates both The Hobbit and Dungeons & Dragons. The German surname Helbling has a similar origin. The term is commonly used in other fiction works as an alternate name for J. R. R. Tolkien's hobbit race.
* Terms like "Halfling" in common usage because: "Hey, why should an autonomous cultural and political group Not want to refer to themselves in the same way that their far larger and clumsier neighbors would, amiright?"
Do you think halflings actually refer to themselves as "halflings"? I mean outside of when they're speaking common.
The game labels them as "halflings" because it's marketed toward human players IRL, so the races are given names that mean something to those players. Since the game originated in English, English terms are used.
Elves don't call themselves "elves." Orcs don't call themselves "orcs." Heck, I doubt most humans call themselves "human" either (more likely to use their racial/ethnic group like Damaran). I know players will use the game terms but that's just for convenience.
Do you think halflings actually refer to themselves as "halflings"? I mean outside of when they're speaking common.
The game labels them as "halflings" because it's marketed toward human players IRL, so the races are given names that mean something to those players. Since the game originated in English, English terms are used.
Elves don't call themselves "elves." Orcs don't call themselves "orcs." Heck, I doubt most humans call themselves "human" either (more likely to use their racial/ethnic group like Damaran). I know players will use the game terms but that's just for convenience.
Halflings don't refer to themselves as halflings because they don't exist. They are made up, fictitious.
Elves don't refer to themselves as elves because they also do not exist. They too are a made up, fictitious fantasy.
Orcs likewise do not refer to themselves as orcs.... want to take a guess as to why?
Humans - possibly - might refer to themselves as human because I exist, I am real, and I am a human. My dogs think of me as a big dog, do I find that offensive? No of course not.
Halflings don't refer to themselves as halflings because they don't exist. They are made up, fictitious.
Elves don't refer to themselves as elves because they also do not exist. They too are a made up, fictitious fantasy.
Orcs likewise do not refer to themselves as orcs.... want to take a guess as to why?
Humans - possibly - might refer to themselves as human because I exist, I am real, and I am a human. My dogs think of me as a big dog, do I find that offensive? No of course not.
Well, of course I mean within the fictional universe. And yes, I get that the fictional universe, being fictional, is fictional. I just mean in a reasonable sense, these species probably have their own word for themselves and do not literally use the words "halfling," "elf," and so forth. A halfling might say "I'm a halfling" but probably only to a non-halfling, since that's the common word (as in the language). By and large, though, they're just game terms like armor class and challenge rating.
And sure, yeah, RL humans can call themselves "human" but in my experience most don't. Most humans I've met will use terms like "people," which is almost certainly what the various halfing, elf, orc, and whatever words for themselves translates into.
I always like the way the movie Willow handled it, great movie.
The halfling race was called nelwyn and the nelwyn people always called the humans daikini. The humans usually called the nelwyn people, peck, cause they were jerks. But halfling seems like a human term for the great nelwyn race.
I'm the webcomic Rusty and Co Stabbs the halfling rogue calls humans "twiclings." Kind of throws that tone back at humans. Following that example, I embrace the fact that the terms is kind of belittling but that the term has been used for so long that most humans and halflings don't even think about what the word even means. "It's just what they're called." But of course they would have a babe for themselves that isn't based on comparing them to humans. Hin fits that well. And if course some halflings (or Hin) will call humans twiclings.
Trolling is a poor example as the word usage as you likely intend originates from a kind of fishing - as in fishing for people to response to an inflammatory remark set as bait. It was not in reference to the folklore creatures.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Hey, I have a suggestion for the people who seem to get super offended at the suggestion that dwarves and halflings may have a name themselves. How about, you just don't comment? It would help a lot for the people who actually want to have a constructive conversation and don't like getting attacked for being of a younger generation with no provocation. Just a thought. . .
As for the people saying that halflings/dwarves/orcs don't care because they aren't real, I dare you. Next time you play D&D, either as a player or DM, don't give any of your characters (PCs or NPCs) any emotions. If someone calls your tiefling character a "Hellion" or "Half-Breed," have them have no reaction whatsoever, not even an internal emotional one. If a wizard calls your warlock "a Short-cutter" or "Incompetent/Uneducated," do the same. No reaction. Why would they care? I mean, they are made up, after all, just like you are all saying.
The fact of the matter is, this game we all play, if you don't play the characters with any emotion, it's no longer a "roleplaying game." It's just a hack-and-slash, wilderness survival game with characters blander than Bella from Twilight.
Saying that we think that we have to be protective of the feelings of Dwarves or fictional races is an ad hominem and strawman. Of course we know that Orcs are fake and Halflings don't have real emotions! However, even though all of this game is fake, that doesn't stop our characters and peoples of our made-up worlds from having emotional responses in game! A halfling character may prefer to be called a "Hin" or "Kender" than "Halfling," because to them, that is allowing someone else to call them less than them, "half" of a person.
As for the people saying that halflings/dwarves/orcs don't care because they aren't real, I dare you. Next time you play D&D, either as a player or DM, don't give any of your characters (PCs or NPCs) any emotions. If someone calls your tiefling character a "Hellion" or "Half-Breed," have them have no reaction whatsoever, not even an internal emotional one. If a wizard calls your warlock "a Short-cutter" or "Incompetent/Uneducated," do the same. No reaction. Why would they care? I mean, they are made up, after all, just like you are all saying.
Saying that we think that we have to be protective of the feelings of Dwarves or fictional races is an ad hominem and strawman. Of course we know that Orcs are fake and Halflings don't have real emotions! However, even though all of this game is fake, that doesn't stop our characters and peoples of our made-up worlds from having emotional responses in game! A halfling character may prefer to be called a "Hin" or "Kender" than "Halfling," because to them, that is allowing someone else to call them less than them, "half" of a person.
Of course the warlock might be insulted but you're calling him something other than warlock. In the case of the tiefling, you're calling them something other than tiefling.
Again, the reason we call them Halflings and Dwarves is because we're speaking Common (English). If D&D were written in SIndarin, I'm sure the words would be different. (Perian and Norn).
I want to point out that the crux of this thread is about being considerate and inclusive of others and how our language can better engender that. That sentiment should also be carried over to how everyone on this thread interacts with each other; if you can't be respectful of each other and adhere to site rules, there will be ramifications including warnings and potentially the thread being locked.
Please, be excellent to each other.
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Strange trivia: I know 9 people in New Zealand. None of them consider Kiwi to be offensive. They also do not consider Kiwi to be a word that only they can use to refer to the people and cultures in New Zealands. Yet, I keep coming across people who are not from and/or never have been to New Zealand who insist that Kiwi is an offensive word. (I, too, was under the false impression that Kiwi was offensive. Now, I feel comfortable to use the word with those people.)
This is how I envision the views of the greater 5e Halfling and Dwarf communities regarding the words, Halfling and Dwarf. Other people think it's might be offensive, but the communities themselves see no issue with it.
Now, there's the flip side. I know a person in Newfoundland. He says that Newfie is offensive - highly offensive - to the people and cultures in Newfoundland. Yet, I see a lot of people using that word thinking nothing of it, totally ignorant of the fact that anyone finds it offensive. (I learned of the word and it's interpreted connotation from this person. So, I was lucky enough to never use the word in the first place.)
I suspect that there are 5e slangs for people who find the slangs to be offensive but others are unaware that it is.
5e is a living word, but it is also a customizable one. If you choose to have Halflings and Dwarves find the terms offensive in your worlds, that is your choice just as it is for others to choose that those two words are not offensive to anyone.
So what if it's in the sources? The sources put forth the basic setting that Halflings and Dwarves do not find the phrase offensive. It is up to you to change that in your scenarios as WotC keeps having to remind us that we are allowed to do so. Please, do not try to dictate what others can and cannot do. There are often more than one view of such things as the examples above show. WotC picked one of the two disparate viewpoints. Floundering on the issue would result in nothing being published. If you disagree with WotC's setting, you are allowed to change it for yours. WotC doesn't need to change theirs for you.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I think the context of “Halfling” also needs to be taken into account. In LotR where the word first appeared, Halflings are the shortest of many races (unlike in D&D, where there are many small races). They are also by far the “youngest” race, and far less numerous than humans, and perhaps even elves and dwarves. Certainly they are less spread out and “visible” due to the Shire’s isolation. In this context, “Halfling” makes sense: after all, they are half the size of other races, though they do call themselves Hobbits. And people don’t use the word as an insult at all, because while it’s true that Halflings are literally half the size of everyone else, nobody really sees that as inherently a bad thing. (In fact, there’s a case to be made that getting upset over the idea of Halflings is founded in the idea that being tall is inherently better...just a thought.)
Of course, just because something makes perfect sense in LotR doesn’t mean it translates well to the D&D world, but Tolkien is so important to fantasy at this point that I don’t think you can change something like this. “Hobbit” would be better, of course, but for the average new player familiar with fantasy, the word “Halfling” brings up a library of classic associations that another word wouldn’t. That’s why it can’t be changed.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Halfling is an "exonym", a name that foreigners use, rather than natives. Sometimes, natives adopt an exonym, and make it their own, especially if they are familiar with the foreigners.
he / him
Are those with dwarfism up in arms about this stuff? Are halflings up in arm..never mind that one.
Use common sense. It's 100% obvious that the terms dwarf and halfling were never meant to be offensive. They are labels. Descriptors. Things that allow a 6yr old to read and quickly identify and separate from a human or orc or goliath. That's all they are. Especially in the case of halflings or hobs, or hobbits, or whatever. It's a made up thing that we all understand. Only recently (this generation?) have folk tried to find some greater meaning to it. An issue is an issue, in all cases, among all, and at all times. Was there massive pushback from those with the condition of dwarfism to remove the term/label/name dwarf from D&D? I don't remember this if so. It all starts to sound like a whole lot of virtue signaling at this point.
There's no problem, ill-intention, misguided, misjudged, incorrect, evil, wrong, inconsiderate thing at play here folks. Use common sense. Halflings can and never will be anything more than what it is - a name. We have nothing to compare it to. At all. It doesn't exist. You can call them Fargopods, which is entirely made up. Without using common sense, someone, somewhere will be up in arms at some point because they are from Fargo, North Dakota and the actions and perception of Fargopods are ill-meaning. Give me a break.
Dwarves, I get it 1%. 99% still says there's 0 issue. If those with dwarfism cry foul, then we should listen. They're going through it and if in some way, the perception of dwarves in a fantasy game contributes to any other hardship for them, we should all listen. If they're quiet, we should also be.
It's similar to other real world issues like kneeling for the flag. You know who I've seen have less opinions on it than any other? Those that serve/have served. If you aren't in, or never have been in the military then yes, your opinion on this matter is worth significantly less.
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I'm curious what the D&D elvish word for "human" is. And does it essentially mean something like "oafish and loud"?
Ultimately, this just shows that despite any logic to the contrary, D&D world-building by most people in the past and in the present has centered on "common" human beings, generally at the expense of creating more complex and believable non-human species/races. Our human desires to make sense of the world and to explain or elaborate on it through story-telling are paired with a great desire to see ourselves reflected in that world, thus, we have:
* Variant Humans that get an extra feat for no apparent reason despite there being several races that have longer lifespans than Humans
* A bunch of "half" races like Half-Orcs, Dragonborn, and Tieflings which the lore generally assumes to be of part or majority human ancestry though there is no explanation for why Humans would be thirstier or more genetically suitable for procreation with other humanoids, Dragons and Fiends than any other group of creatures.
* Terms like "Halfling" in common usage because: "Hey, why should an autonomous cultural and political group Not want to refer to themselves in the same way that their far larger and clumsier neighbors would, amiright?"
A bit late to this discussion, bit I find it amusing that some think "Halfling" is insulting to the Halfling race in D&D because of a pre-conceived notion of theirs that being taller is better!?
Maybe Halflings look at all the other races, at how they have to eat so much, take up so much room, take so much material to clothe themselves, etc.. and consider THEM to be inferior! Thus they would identify themselves as "half" such a big wasteful creature in a positive way. They would be proud to be "Halflings".
The whole premise of the OP, with respect to the term "Halfling" (no comment on Dwarf or Dwarves), is wrong, because they apply their own pre-conceived perception that being bigger is better. Thus being half of something better is derogatory.
(edit and my apologies if this has been brought up previously)
Just to add my 2 pence worth, this is taken from a wikiedia entry so maybe take with a pinch of salt:
Etymology
Originally, halfling comes from the Scots word hauflin, meaning an awkward rustic teenager, who is neither man nor boy, and so half of both. Another word for halfling is hobbledehoy or hobby. This usage of the word pre-dates both The Hobbit and Dungeons & Dragons. The German surname Helbling has a similar origin. The term is commonly used in other fiction works as an alternate name for J. R. R. Tolkien's hobbit race.
Do you think halflings actually refer to themselves as "halflings"? I mean outside of when they're speaking common.
The game labels them as "halflings" because it's marketed toward human players IRL, so the races are given names that mean something to those players. Since the game originated in English, English terms are used.
Elves don't call themselves "elves." Orcs don't call themselves "orcs." Heck, I doubt most humans call themselves "human" either (more likely to use their racial/ethnic group like Damaran). I know players will use the game terms but that's just for convenience.
Halflings don't refer to themselves as halflings because they don't exist. They are made up, fictitious.
Elves don't refer to themselves as elves because they also do not exist. They too are a made up, fictitious fantasy.
Orcs likewise do not refer to themselves as orcs.... want to take a guess as to why?
Humans - possibly - might refer to themselves as human because I exist, I am real, and I am a human. My dogs think of me as a big dog, do I find that offensive? No of course not.
Well, of course I mean within the fictional universe. And yes, I get that the fictional universe, being fictional, is fictional. I just mean in a reasonable sense, these species probably have their own word for themselves and do not literally use the words "halfling," "elf," and so forth. A halfling might say "I'm a halfling" but probably only to a non-halfling, since that's the common word (as in the language). By and large, though, they're just game terms like armor class and challenge rating.
And sure, yeah, RL humans can call themselves "human" but in my experience most don't. Most humans I've met will use terms like "people," which is almost certainly what the various halfing, elf, orc, and whatever words for themselves translates into.
I always like the way the movie Willow handled it, great movie.
The halfling race was called nelwyn and the nelwyn people always called the humans daikini. The humans usually called the nelwyn people, peck, cause they were jerks. But halfling seems like a human term for the great nelwyn race.
Stupid daikinis.
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I'm the webcomic Rusty and Co Stabbs the halfling rogue calls humans "twiclings." Kind of throws that tone back at humans. Following that example, I embrace the fact that the terms is kind of belittling but that the term has been used for so long that most humans and halflings don't even think about what the word even means. "It's just what they're called." But of course they would have a babe for themselves that isn't based on comparing them to humans. Hin fits that well. And if course some halflings (or Hin) will call humans twiclings.
At least, that's how I handle it.
There are also Kenders of Dragonlance
Trolling is a poor example as the word usage as you likely intend originates from a kind of fishing - as in fishing for people to response to an inflammatory remark set as bait. It was not in reference to the folklore creatures.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
We call halflings short-arses.
Hey, I have a suggestion for the people who seem to get super offended at the suggestion that dwarves and halflings may have a name themselves. How about, you just don't comment? It would help a lot for the people who actually want to have a constructive conversation and don't like getting attacked for being of a younger generation with no provocation. Just a thought. . .
As for the people saying that halflings/dwarves/orcs don't care because they aren't real, I dare you. Next time you play D&D, either as a player or DM, don't give any of your characters (PCs or NPCs) any emotions. If someone calls your tiefling character a "Hellion" or "Half-Breed," have them have no reaction whatsoever, not even an internal emotional one. If a wizard calls your warlock "a Short-cutter" or "Incompetent/Uneducated," do the same. No reaction. Why would they care? I mean, they are made up, after all, just like you are all saying.
The fact of the matter is, this game we all play, if you don't play the characters with any emotion, it's no longer a "roleplaying game." It's just a hack-and-slash, wilderness survival game with characters blander than Bella from Twilight.
Saying that we think that we have to be protective of the feelings of Dwarves or fictional races is an ad hominem and strawman. Of course we know that Orcs are fake and Halflings don't have real emotions! However, even though all of this game is fake, that doesn't stop our characters and peoples of our made-up worlds from having emotional responses in game! A halfling character may prefer to be called a "Hin" or "Kender" than "Halfling," because to them, that is allowing someone else to call them less than them, "half" of a person.
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Of course the warlock might be insulted but you're calling him something other than warlock. In the case of the tiefling, you're calling them something other than tiefling.
Again, the reason we call them Halflings and Dwarves is because we're speaking Common (English). If D&D were written in SIndarin, I'm sure the words would be different. (Perian and Norn).
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