Because people think racial feats require something they don't.
What's that, exactly? I mean, Crawford's tweet is pretty clear declaring yourself an "elf" via custom lineage or anything other than actually taking the Elf or Half-Elf race option doesn't meet the requirements for a racial feat that has "Elf" as prerequisite, and I can't think of anything else people might incorrectly think racial feats require.
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"Racial feats" and "custom lineage" are 2 different rules, from 2 different books (that don't reference each other), with a bit of time between them --- not to mention a probably-major shift in design direction between them. Also, their slight overloading of the words "custom," "origin," and "lineage" in both Tasha's and the more recent UA wasn't the best editing choice.
It's clearly the most correct interpretation, but that it needs interpreting at all is the issue. Thus, Crawford deciding to tweet about it.
You can continue to push that opinion that the RAW was unclear at me all you want, but the person who revived this thread is now saying that racial feats don't mean you have to be that race to get them.... So pretending the problem is with RAW and interpreting it incorrectly frankly imo is giving people too much credit.
People who want to knowingly cheat don't post about it in forums, or try to make their case in public. Wishful thinking isn't malice.
On the other hand, I have been involved in editing and publishing of game/RPG rules, and this sort of confusion happens all the time. The more you edit and clarify, the more people complain about complexity. The simpler you write things, the more the edge cases get questioned. It's endemic to the hobby.
All right. My question remains the same in essence: what does Custom Lineage do that the species stat block does not?
There are two answers I've seen: 1.) "It lets me have a cool feat from level 1!", or 2.) "If you stack things right you can start with 18 in your main ability score."
Now, to be fair? I don't care what you do at your table. If your DM is cool with using Custom Lineage to represent every species in their game, or if they insist on doing so as a Leveling Of The Playing Field, bangin'. Go for it. But I'm one of those folks who believes everything should be allowed a (noncombat) feat from the get-go in the first place, and people absconding with Custom Lineage to say "this is how you make an 18DX elvish sharpshooter from level 1!" to get around the fact that AL is terrible actively annoys me. besides which, Custom Lineage doesn't allow for 'racial' feats in AL anyways, which is kinda the answer in a nutshell.
I don't understand why people want Custom Lineage over a regular species, given that Custom Lineage is very weak. Outside the free feat, which I'm still annoyed isn't just a thing everybody does for their players considering how much better it makes games, Custom Lineage offers a character essentially nothing. So...why are people so hype to throw away their species for it? Legit don't get it.
All right. My question remains the same in essence: what does Custom Lineage do that the species stat block does not?
There are two answers I've seen: 1.) "It lets me have a cool feat from level 1!", or 2.) "If you stack things right you can start with 18 in your main ability score."
Now, to be fair? I don't care what you do at your table. If your DM is cool with using Custom Lineage to represent every species in their game, or if they insist on doing so as a Leveling Of The Playing Field, bangin'. Go for it. But I'm one of those folks who believes everything should be allowed a (noncombat) feat from the get-go in the first place, and people absconding with Custom Lineage to say "this is how you make an 18DX elvish sharpshooter from level 1!" to get around the fact that AL is terrible actively annoys me. besides which, Custom Lineage doesn't allow for 'racial' feats in AL anyways, which is kinda the answer in a nutshell.
I don't understand why people want Custom Lineage over a regular species, given that Custom Lineage is very weak. Outside the free feat, which I'm still annoyed isn't just a thing everybody does for their players considering how much better it makes games, Custom Lineage offers a character essentially nothing. So...why are people so hype to throw away their species for it? Legit don't get it.
Total agreement with you Yurei, I'm one of those DMS that gives a free feat to all at level 1 and usually some cool RP related thing too. But some people see that as sacrilege and frankly say "If you want a feat at level 1 play a human" so really I think that is why CL exists.
But frankly you have a poor understanding of the terms and rules in this game you you somehow see CL as Variant of a race.....
I'll address this first. If you want to be hostile that's fine.
But it is you who are confused. I used "Variant" just as a placeholder for the name of the Custom Lineage. The Custom Lineage could be anything you want. Lemon-Meringue Pie Elfs, Tall Gnomes, Pink Orc, whatever. In the section you quoted, I was calling that Custom Lineage a Variant Elf, they could be called anything at all. It is custom. They could be hollowtpm-doesn't-know-what-he's-talking-about Halflings. Custom.
Well you frankly didn't read this thread because you are literally saying incorrect not RAW or RAI information.
I read it. It was painstaking to read the same bad arguments page after page. These explanations are insufficient or incorrect.
CUSTOM LINEAGE
Instead of choosing one of the game’s races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character’s lineage, giving you full control over how your character’s origin shaped them:
Right there in bold. If you are a custom lineage it doesn't matter what you "call" youself YOU ARE NOT CONSIDERED ONE OF THE GAMES RACES. Done nothing you say changes that.
I added some bold underlines.
Instead of picking one of the standard trait packages, you choose this instead. It represents your lineage, of which you have full control of and can design their origin.
If you want to create a custom lineage of Elves, great! You don't get the standard trait pack of the standard elf, of course. You use this one instead. Just like it says to do. But since you have full control of their origin there is no reason they can't be an elf. Or a halfling. Or a gnome.
So whip yourself up a lineage of forest dwarves and call yourself a dwarf. You look like a dwarf, are descended from dwarves, call yourself a dwarf, people see you as a dwarf. You got a dwarf beard. You're a dwarf. In the forest.
This game rules was written to be understood from just a common language use framework. You know what a lineage is, as do I. If your whole family lineage was dwarves, you are a dwarf. Your whole argument relies on people not knowing the definition of the word Lineage. It's use in the quotes sentence it is synonymous with the word Race. They use it to add clarity to the differentiation between the prepackaged race options and this custom one.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I don't understand why people want Custom Lineage over a regular species, given that Custom Lineage is very weak. Outside the free feat, which I'm still annoyed isn't just a thing everybody does for their players considering how much better it makes games, Custom Lineage offers a character essentially nothing.
It's arguably slightly better than variant human (access to Darkvision if you want it, and a single +2 is generally - though not necessarily absolutely - better than +1/+1), and people do take variant human. A feat can be a big deal.
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All right. My question remains the same in essence: what does Custom Lineage do that the species stat block does not?
There are two answers I've seen: 1.) "It lets me have a cool feat from level 1!", or 2.) "If you stack things right you can start with 18 in your main ability score."
Now, to be fair? I don't care what you do at your table. If your DM is cool with using Custom Lineage to represent every species in their game, or if they insist on doing so as a Leveling Of The Playing Field, bangin'. Go for it. But I'm one of those folks who believes everything should be allowed a (noncombat) feat from the get-go in the first place, and people absconding with Custom Lineage to say "this is how you make an 18DX elvish sharpshooter from level 1!" to get around the fact that AL is terrible actively annoys me. besides which, Custom Lineage doesn't allow for 'racial' feats in AL anyways, which is kinda the answer in a nutshell.
I don't understand why people want Custom Lineage over a regular species, given that Custom Lineage is very weak. Outside the free feat, which I'm still annoyed isn't just a thing everybody does for their players considering how much better it makes games, Custom Lineage offers a character essentially nothing. So...why are people so hype to throw away their species for it? Legit don't get it.
Right there with you. Feats should have been a default 1 free one at level 1.
I don't like custom lineage as a player option, personally. DMing, I'd just introduce some homebrew race option if a player wanted something else, and as a player I'd prefer working with my DM to craft a fully homebrew solution if I wanted something weird but the standard races are adequate imo and I've always made em work just fine. But, if a player wanted to play one for either of those 2 reasons you listed, I'd still support them. I'm not going to pretend to know the 'right way' to play the game, and would instead try to make it the game they were looking for. So when it comes down to it either of those reasons for picking the race options are valid.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
But frankly you have a poor understanding of the terms and rules in this game you you somehow see CL as Variant of a race.....
I'll address this first. If you want to be hostile that's fine.
But it is you who are confused. I used "Variant" just as a placeholder for the name of the Custom Lineage. The Custom Lineage could be anything you want. Lemon-Meringue Pie Elfs, Tall Gnomes, Pink Orc, whatever. In the section you quoted, I was calling that Custom Lineage a Variant Elf, they could be called anything at all. It is custom. They could be hollowtpm-doesn't-know-what-he's-talking-about Halflings. Custom.
Well you frankly didn't read this thread because you are literally saying incorrect not RAW or RAI information.
I read it. It was painstaking to read the same bad arguments page after page. These explanations are insufficient or incorrect.
CUSTOM LINEAGE
Instead of choosing one of the game’s races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character’s lineage, giving you full control over how your character’s origin shaped them:
Right there in bold. If you are a custom lineage it doesn't matter what you "call" youself YOU ARE NOT CONSIDERED ONE OF THE GAMES RACES. Done nothing you say changes that.
I added some bold underlines.
Instead of picking one of the standard trait packages, you choose this instead. It represents your lineage, of which you have full control of and can design their origin.
If you want to create a custom lineage of Elves, great! You don't get the standard trait pack of the standard elf, of course. You use this one instead. Just like it says to do. But since you have full control of their origin there is no reason they can't be an elf. Or a halfling. Or a gnome.
So whip yourself up a lineage of forest dwarves and call yourself a dwarf. You look like a dwarf, are descended from dwarves, call yourself a dwarf, people see you as a dwarf. You got a dwarf beard. You're a dwarf. In the forest.
This game rules was written to be understood from just a common language use framework. You know what a lineage is, as do I. If your whole family lineage was dwarves, you are a dwarf. Your whole argument relies on people not knowing the definition of the word Lineage. It's use in the quotes sentence it is synonymous with the word Race. They use it to add clarity to the differentiation between the prepackaged race options and this custom one.
Ambiguous language aside, it's been clarified by the head designer. If your interpretation was different, so be it, but given that we have a clarification there's really no point in arguing what the words in Tasha's supposedly say. We know what they're meant to say. "Full control" doesn't include getting to pick an official race to belong to for mechanical purposes. If you want to use Custom Lineage and think of your character as an elf, that's perfectly fine - but for mechanical purposes, by the rules, it's not one.
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Ambiguous language aside, it's been clarified by the head designer. If your interpretation was different, so be it, but given that we have a clarification there's really no point in arguing what the words in Tasha's supposedly say. We know what they're meant to say. "Full control" doesn't include getting to pick an official race to belong to for mechanical purposes. If you want to use Custom Lineage and think of your character as an elf, that's perfectly fine - but for mechanical purposes, by the rules, it's not one.
Thank you for clarifying the RAI. I believe we were discussing RAW.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Ambiguous language aside, it's been clarified by the head designer. If your interpretation was different, so be it, but given that we have a clarification there's really no point in arguing what the words in Tasha's supposedly say. We know what they're meant to say. "Full control" doesn't include getting to pick an official race to belong to for mechanical purposes. If you want to use Custom Lineage and think of your character as an elf, that's perfectly fine - but for mechanical purposes, by the rules, it's not one.
Thank you for clarifying the RAI. I believe we were discussing RAW.
Are we? because you are not using RAW in any of your defenses.
RAW - Racial feats are only for the games defined races.
If you want to create a custom lineage of Elves, great! You don't get the standard trait pack of the standard elf, of course. You use this one instead. Just like it says to do. But since you have full control of their origin there is no reason they can't be an elf. Or a halfling. Or a gnome.
So whip yourself up a lineage of forest dwarves and call yourself a dwarf. You look like a dwarf, are descended from dwarves, call yourself a dwarf, people see you as a dwarf. You got a dwarf beard. You're a dwarf. In the forest.
You have full control over your lineage, as long as it is not an elf, halfling, gnome, etc. You are willfully ignoring the "Instead of choosing one of the game's race" part.
This game rules was written to be understood from just a common language use framework. You know what a lineage is, as do I. If your whole family lineage was dwarves, you are a dwarf. Your whole argument relies on people not knowing the definition of the word Lineage. It's use in the quotes sentence it is synonymous with the word Race. They use it to add clarity to the differentiation between the prepackaged race options and this custom one.
Just because the rules were written to make it more natural does not mean you can bend and twist it however you want.
RAW is clear that Custom Lineage does not allow you to qualify for Racial Feats. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. The lead designer of D&D has even clarified this. Even Beyond has confirmed this with Wizards when they implemented Custom Lineage, since the character builder will not allow you to take Racial Feats with Custom Lineage unless you turn the toggle on to disable Feat requirements.
Just because RAW does not allow Custom Lineage to take Racial Feats does not mean you cannot do it at your table. Most GMs hardly enforce 100% RAW anyways.
There is a very clear distinction between what RAW is and what you want RAW to be. I want Custom Lineage to qualify for Racial Feats too, but RAW says otherwise. However, that is okay. I am the GM of my table and I can simply overrule RAW. It is no big deal.
Instead of picking one of the standard trait packages, you choose this instead. It represents your lineage, of which you have full control of and can design their origin.
If you want to create a custom lineage of Elves, great! You don't get the standard trait pack of the standard elf, of course. You use this one instead. Just like it says to do. But since you have full control of their origin there is no reason they can't be an elf. Or a halfling. Or a gnome.
So whip yourself up a lineage of forest dwarves and call yourself a dwarf. You look like a dwarf, are descended from dwarves, call yourself a dwarf, people see you as a dwarf. You got a dwarf beard. You're a dwarf. In the forest.
This game rules was written to be understood from just a common language use framework. You know what a lineage is, as do I. If your whole family lineage was dwarves, you are a dwarf. Your whole argument relies on people not knowing the definition of the word Lineage. It's use in the quotes sentence it is synonymous with the word Race. They use it to add clarity to the differentiation between the prepackaged race options and this custom one.
Clearly the tweet and RAI prove that the common language framework your thinking of is far different than that of WoTC.
The difficult part is the usage of the word origin & lineage, as racial feats do not specify and just state "be a elf" which is extremely vague no matter what common language you speak (seeing said 10 pages). Is it simply enough to be from elves, or must you be of the elven race exactly? (It is to be noted that the dictionary states origin is simply the start of something, i.e where/how your born, or who your biological parents are, not relating to you as a person. Although again, common language usage means you might interpreted that differently)
It is to be noted that D&D is filled with situations where stuff like "You look like a dwarf, are descended from dwarves, call yourself a dwarf, people see you as a dwarf. You got a dwarf beard" happens but the person isn't actually a dwarf and doesn't qualify for many dwarf racial feats. See upcoming Ravenloft book (or just the UA lineages), several races such as tieflings which are sometimes born from other tieflings and sometimes not), etc.
Edit: oh it's 10 pages now
Oh and the whole lineage thing meaning race, see spoiler again. It relates to your ancestors, not your race. Usually irl your ancestor's race is basically your race, but D&D is complicated and thus the two words cannot be said to be equal. Besides, I'm going to agree with Yurei that it's custom origin, it's not supposed to be another generic elf else you would just use the elf race stats.
Again, allowing racial feats doesn't break anything of course. Perfectly fine, just not RAI, and depending on how vague your "common language" is, it's arguable RAW at best.
RAW, CL is a separate option distinct from other species. One can use CL to create the aforementioned Forest Dwarf, but that Forest Dwarf does not get access to the same sets of feats that Hill, Mountain, Grey, or Durgantat dwarves do. It is different and distinct enough to be its own thing.
The relevant comparison, methinks, is "If I use Custom Lineage to make a stat block and call myself an Empyrean, do I get access to all the special actions and stuff the Empyrean has?" No DM with a functional brain would allow that. Many DMs would be cool with a 'sealed' or 'fallen' Empyrean whose adventuring career was about trying to find a way to regain their abilities, but simply saying you're an [X] doesn't entitle you to gain all the abilities of [X]. As Pang stated, you can fluff yourself as anything you like, but the system has its own ideas the DM is not necessarily obligated to override for you.
Ambiguous language aside, it's been clarified by the head designer. If your interpretation was different, so be it, but given that we have a clarification there's really no point in arguing what the words in Tasha's supposedly say. We know what they're meant to say. "Full control" doesn't include getting to pick an official race to belong to for mechanical purposes. If you want to use Custom Lineage and think of your character as an elf, that's perfectly fine - but for mechanical purposes, by the rules, it's not one.
Thank you for clarifying the RAI. I believe we were discussing RAW.
The RAW are ambiguous (apparently). The RAI clarify the ambiguity.
We're not talking about a rules change (erratum) here. The RAI are the same as the RAW in this instance. They're not the same as your interpretation of the RAW, but that just means your interpretation is incorrect - not the RAW themselves.
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If you want to create a custom lineage of Elves, great! You don't get the standard trait pack of the standard elf, of course. You use this one instead. Just like it says to do. But since you have full control of their origin there is no reason they can't be an elf. Or a halfling. Or a gnome.
So whip yourself up a lineage of forest dwarves and call yourself a dwarf. You look like a dwarf, are descended from dwarves, call yourself a dwarf, people see you as a dwarf. You got a dwarf beard. You're a dwarf. In the forest.
You have full control over your lineage, as long as it is not an elf, halfling, gnome, etc. You are willfully ignoring the "Instead of choosing one of the game's race" part.
This game rules was written to be understood from just a common language use framework. You know what a lineage is, as do I. If your whole family lineage was dwarves, you are a dwarf. Your whole argument relies on people not knowing the definition of the word Lineage. It's use in the quotes sentence it is synonymous with the word Race. They use it to add clarity to the differentiation between the prepackaged race options and this custom one.
Just because the rules were written to make it more natural does not mean you can bend and twist it however you want.
RAW is clear that Custom Lineage does not allow you to qualify for Racial Feats. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. The lead designer of D&D has even clarified this. Even Beyond has confirmed this with Wizards when they implemented Custom Lineage, since the character builder will not allow you to take Racial Feats with Custom Lineage unless you turn the toggle on to disable Feat requirements.
Just because RAW does not allow Custom Lineage to take Racial Feats does not mean you cannot do it at your table. Most GMs hardly enforce 100% RAW anyways.
There is a very clear distinction between what RAW is and what you want RAW to be. I want Custom Lineage to qualify for Racial Feats too, but RAW says otherwise. However, that is okay. I am the GM of my table and I can simply overrule RAW. It is no big deal.
I'm not trying to "get one over" or something. I've never made nor really even want to make a CL character. I find it bizarre that so many people have characterized me like you are, as though I want it to be interpreted a certain way for some nefarious personal reasons. How would posting about it, here, even help me with that even if I did?? It's such a bizarre assumption for my intention.
No, I read what it says, and it parses differently than you all claim it does. So I post about it. When it says you have complete control of your origins and lineage, that, to me, is saying you are in designer mode. You want a forest dwarf? You're a forest dwarf. You want a mountain elf? You're a mountain elf. It is Custom!
Lineage = Race. In the context of these rules text I don't see a difference between how they're used. When I read the feat in common usage language this is what I see:
Instead of choosing one of the game’s races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character’s race, giving you full control over how your character’s race shaped them.
They seem to just use synonyms for ease of reading and because it is just good practice in writing, generally speaking, to not chain the same word over and over again.
Now, if JC is dead set on his answer, then we know the RAI. Or at least we know the post-hoc RAI.
So, if their intent was really to create this nebulous non-entity non-race character option, that could have been written far better than it was.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
1) No, I read what it says, and it parses differently than you all claim it does.
2) When it says you have complete control of your origins and lineage, that, to me, is saying you are in designer mode.
1) Considering that at least insofar as forumites are concerned more (a lot more) people claim the RAW parse exactly the same as the RAI than there are people claiming otherwise, I wouldn't state what you state as fact.
2) Exactly. To you.
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You say you read it differenly but simply CHOOSE to read only certain parts.
Does CL give you control of your origin - YES - Proof: you can use the following traits to represent your character’s race, giving you full control over how your character’s race shaped them.
Can, a PC made via CL be an Elf in terms of game races? - NO - Proof: Instead of choosing one of the game’s races for your character at 1st level
Does calling yourself an elf via CL open you up for use of feats that require you to be an Elf? - NO - Again we need to look at the book racial feats game from - they state they are tied directly to PHB races. Now if we look at the again simply common language used above, you are NOT a games race when you are CL.
CL isn't really meant as a 'nebulous non-entity non-race' option
It's meant to cover unique edge cases. One of my friend's favorite Eternal Backup characters is a haunted doll created by a lich to be his personal lab assistant/daughter-analogue, right up until the lich is killed and the doll taken away to learn Adventuring by the Adventurers who killed her undead daddy. Previously he had to write up a homebrew species for Wertvoll, which automatically disbarred her from ninety-eight percent of all D&D games. Now? That doll could theoretically be Custom Lineage'd to allow Maker to run her in a stricter game.
That's what Custom Lineage is for - bizarre one-offs that don't otherwise have a place. Are you a haunted doll? Are you a kitchenware golem (a legit character I've seen, and it is far more terrifying than you're thinking)? Are you an Awakened [insert whatever dumbass thing some idjit player decided to Awaken here]? Are you whatever the hell Rayman is? Are you as fashion mannequin possessed by the costume of Macho Man Randy Savage? CL can give you a foot in the door. The rest is up to your ability to impress the DM and the rest of your group by managing to turn the character into something Special, instead of just a weird joke.
Sadly RAW lineage and race don't mean the same. They are similar and connected in that 9 times out of 10, your lineage has a effect on your race, but they are not symptoms for each other.
I do agree their intent has not been carried out well, and if you asked a random person on the street if lineage and race were the same, a lot of them would probably say yes.
Although it is worth noting that all other non-entity non-race character options are all referred to as lineages, so at least they're consistant. (The ones in the lineages UA and are coming out in the Ravenloft book)
Edit: I guess everyone does make a good point that "non-entity non-race" doesn't really fit, as your race is "Custom Lineage". However I can't think of a better way to describe it and it was the term used in the person I'm responding to's post, so I'll keep it for now.
So, if their intent was really to create this nebulous non-entity non-race character option, that could have been written far better than it was.
I think the intent was as follows (quoting a post of mine in the other thread):
Custom Lineage can, as written, be used for entirely-custom stuff (animated dolls and such), super micromanaged bloodline stuff ("my grandparents were a gnome, a human, a half-elf, and a magical construct"), or even "I want to say I'm a deep gnome, but use Shadow Touched instead of the normal deep gnome abilities." All Crawford's ruling is stating (as was pretty obvious before, just not explicit) is that Custom Lineage does not, by default, meet the prerequisites for things like the racial feats.
Given that the racial feats and Custom Lineage were from entirely different books (Xanathar's and Tasha's), it's not so surprising that this needed a clarification.
Also, it's pretty clear that some of the Tasha's feats (none of which are racial feats) look like redesigned non-racial versions of some of the Xanathar's feats. Compare Fey Touched to Fey Teleportation, for example.
Lastly, if the DM wants to waive the race requirements for Xanathar's racial feats (for Custom Lineage, or whatever really), they can. There's even a switch for it in dndbeyond. Were I running a campaign (I'm not), I would do this. I think the next campaign I start in will do this, because the DM is thinking along similar lines. You (the proverbial 'you') do not have to, as per Crawford's ruling.
What's that, exactly? I mean, Crawford's tweet is pretty clear declaring yourself an "elf" via custom lineage or anything other than actually taking the Elf or Half-Elf race option doesn't meet the requirements for a racial feat that has "Elf" as prerequisite, and I can't think of anything else people might incorrectly think racial feats require.
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People who want to knowingly cheat don't post about it in forums, or try to make their case in public. Wishful thinking isn't malice.
On the other hand, I have been involved in editing and publishing of game/RPG rules, and this sort of confusion happens all the time. The more you edit and clarify, the more people complain about complexity. The simpler you write things, the more the edge cases get questioned. It's endemic to the hobby.
All right. My question remains the same in essence: what does Custom Lineage do that the species stat block does not?
There are two answers I've seen: 1.) "It lets me have a cool feat from level 1!", or 2.) "If you stack things right you can start with 18 in your main ability score."
Now, to be fair? I don't care what you do at your table. If your DM is cool with using Custom Lineage to represent every species in their game, or if they insist on doing so as a Leveling Of The Playing Field, bangin'. Go for it. But I'm one of those folks who believes everything should be allowed a (noncombat) feat from the get-go in the first place, and people absconding with Custom Lineage to say "this is how you make an 18DX elvish sharpshooter from level 1!" to get around the fact that AL is terrible actively annoys me. besides which, Custom Lineage doesn't allow for 'racial' feats in AL anyways, which is kinda the answer in a nutshell.
I don't understand why people want Custom Lineage over a regular species, given that Custom Lineage is very weak. Outside the free feat, which I'm still annoyed isn't just a thing everybody does for their players considering how much better it makes games, Custom Lineage offers a character essentially nothing. So...why are people so hype to throw away their species for it? Legit don't get it.
Please do not contact or message me.
Total agreement with you Yurei, I'm one of those DMS that gives a free feat to all at level 1 and usually some cool RP related thing too. But some people see that as sacrilege and frankly say "If you want a feat at level 1 play a human" so really I think that is why CL exists.
I'll address this first. If you want to be hostile that's fine.
But it is you who are confused. I used "Variant" just as a placeholder for the name of the Custom Lineage. The Custom Lineage could be anything you want. Lemon-Meringue Pie Elfs, Tall Gnomes, Pink Orc, whatever. In the section you quoted, I was calling that Custom Lineage a Variant Elf, they could be called anything at all. It is custom. They could be hollowtpm-doesn't-know-what-he's-talking-about Halflings. Custom.
I read it. It was painstaking to read the same bad arguments page after page. These explanations are insufficient or incorrect.
I added some bold underlines.
Instead of picking one of the standard trait packages, you choose this instead. It represents your lineage, of which you have full control of and can design their origin.
If you want to create a custom lineage of Elves, great! You don't get the standard trait pack of the standard elf, of course. You use this one instead. Just like it says to do. But since you have full control of their origin there is no reason they can't be an elf. Or a halfling. Or a gnome.
So whip yourself up a lineage of forest dwarves and call yourself a dwarf. You look like a dwarf, are descended from dwarves, call yourself a dwarf, people see you as a dwarf. You got a dwarf beard. You're a dwarf. In the forest.
This game rules was written to be understood from just a common language use framework. You know what a lineage is, as do I. If your whole family lineage was dwarves, you are a dwarf. Your whole argument relies on people not knowing the definition of the word Lineage. It's use in the quotes sentence it is synonymous with the word Race. They use it to add clarity to the differentiation between the prepackaged race options and this custom one.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
It's arguably slightly better than variant human (access to Darkvision if you want it, and a single +2 is generally - though not necessarily absolutely - better than +1/+1), and people do take variant human. A feat can be a big deal.
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Right there with you. Feats should have been a default 1 free one at level 1.
I don't like custom lineage as a player option, personally. DMing, I'd just introduce some homebrew race option if a player wanted something else, and as a player I'd prefer working with my DM to craft a fully homebrew solution if I wanted something weird but the standard races are adequate imo and I've always made em work just fine. But, if a player wanted to play one for either of those 2 reasons you listed, I'd still support them. I'm not going to pretend to know the 'right way' to play the game, and would instead try to make it the game they were looking for. So when it comes down to it either of those reasons for picking the race options are valid.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Ambiguous language aside, it's been clarified by the head designer. If your interpretation was different, so be it, but given that we have a clarification there's really no point in arguing what the words in Tasha's supposedly say. We know what they're meant to say. "Full control" doesn't include getting to pick an official race to belong to for mechanical purposes. If you want to use Custom Lineage and think of your character as an elf, that's perfectly fine - but for mechanical purposes, by the rules, it's not one.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Are we? because you are not using RAW in any of your defenses.
RAW - Racial feats are only for the games defined races.
RAW - CL is NOT one of the games defined races.
You have full control over your lineage, as long as it is not an elf, halfling, gnome, etc. You are willfully ignoring the "Instead of choosing one of the game's race" part.
Just because the rules were written to make it more natural does not mean you can bend and twist it however you want.
RAW is clear that Custom Lineage does not allow you to qualify for Racial Feats. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. The lead designer of D&D has even clarified this. Even Beyond has confirmed this with Wizards when they implemented Custom Lineage, since the character builder will not allow you to take Racial Feats with Custom Lineage unless you turn the toggle on to disable Feat requirements.
Just because RAW does not allow Custom Lineage to take Racial Feats does not mean you cannot do it at your table. Most GMs hardly enforce 100% RAW anyways.
There is a very clear distinction between what RAW is and what you want RAW to be. I want Custom Lineage to qualify for Racial Feats too, but RAW says otherwise. However, that is okay. I am the GM of my table and I can simply overrule RAW. It is no big deal.
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Clearly the tweet and RAI prove that the common language framework your thinking of is far different than that of WoTC.
The difficult part is the usage of the word origin & lineage, as racial feats do not specify and just state "be a elf" which is extremely vague no matter what common language you speak (seeing said 10 pages). Is it simply enough to be from elves, or must you be of the elven race exactly? (It is to be noted that the dictionary states origin is simply the start of something, i.e where/how your born, or who your biological parents are, not relating to you as a person. Although again, common language usage means you might interpreted that differently)
It is to be noted that D&D is filled with situations where stuff like "You look like a dwarf, are descended from dwarves, call yourself a dwarf, people see you as a dwarf. You got a dwarf beard" happens but the person isn't actually a dwarf and doesn't qualify for many dwarf racial feats. See upcoming Ravenloft book (or just the UA lineages), several races such as tieflings which are sometimes born from other tieflings and sometimes not), etc.
Edit: oh it's 10 pages now
Oh and the whole lineage thing meaning race, see spoiler again. It relates to your ancestors, not your race. Usually irl your ancestor's race is basically your race, but D&D is complicated and thus the two words cannot be said to be equal. Besides, I'm going to agree with Yurei that it's custom origin, it's not supposed to be another generic elf else you would just use the elf race stats.
Again, allowing racial feats doesn't break anything of course. Perfectly fine, just not RAI, and depending on how vague your "common language" is, it's arguable RAW at best.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
RAW, CL is a separate option distinct from other species. One can use CL to create the aforementioned Forest Dwarf, but that Forest Dwarf does not get access to the same sets of feats that Hill, Mountain, Grey, or Durgantat dwarves do. It is different and distinct enough to be its own thing.
The relevant comparison, methinks, is "If I use Custom Lineage to make a stat block and call myself an Empyrean, do I get access to all the special actions and stuff the Empyrean has?" No DM with a functional brain would allow that. Many DMs would be cool with a 'sealed' or 'fallen' Empyrean whose adventuring career was about trying to find a way to regain their abilities, but simply saying you're an [X] doesn't entitle you to gain all the abilities of [X]. As Pang stated, you can fluff yourself as anything you like, but the system has its own ideas the DM is not necessarily obligated to override for you.
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The RAW are ambiguous (apparently). The RAI clarify the ambiguity.
We're not talking about a rules change (erratum) here. The RAI are the same as the RAW in this instance. They're not the same as your interpretation of the RAW, but that just means your interpretation is incorrect - not the RAW themselves.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I'm not trying to "get one over" or something. I've never made nor really even want to make a CL character. I find it bizarre that so many people have characterized me like you are, as though I want it to be interpreted a certain way for some nefarious personal reasons. How would posting about it, here, even help me with that even if I did?? It's such a bizarre assumption for my intention.
No, I read what it says, and it parses differently than you all claim it does. So I post about it. When it says you have complete control of your origins and lineage, that, to me, is saying you are in designer mode. You want a forest dwarf? You're a forest dwarf. You want a mountain elf? You're a mountain elf. It is Custom!
Lineage = Race. In the context of these rules text I don't see a difference between how they're used. When I read the feat in common usage language this is what I see:
They seem to just use synonyms for ease of reading and because it is just good practice in writing, generally speaking, to not chain the same word over and over again.
Now, if JC is dead set on his answer, then we know the RAI. Or at least we know the post-hoc RAI.
So, if their intent was really to create this nebulous non-entity non-race character option, that could have been written far better than it was.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
1) Considering that at least insofar as forumites are concerned more (a lot more) people claim the RAW parse exactly the same as the RAI than there are people claiming otherwise, I wouldn't state what you state as fact.
2) Exactly. To you.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
You say you read it differenly but simply CHOOSE to read only certain parts.
Does CL give you control of your origin - YES - Proof: you can use the following traits to represent your character’s race, giving you full control over how your character’s race shaped them.
Can, a PC made via CL be an Elf in terms of game races? - NO - Proof: Instead of choosing one of the game’s races for your character at 1st level
Does calling yourself an elf via CL open you up for use of feats that require you to be an Elf? - NO - Again we need to look at the book racial feats game from - they state they are tied directly to PHB races. Now if we look at the again simply common language used above, you are NOT a games race when you are CL.
CL isn't really meant as a 'nebulous non-entity non-race' option
It's meant to cover unique edge cases. One of my friend's favorite Eternal Backup characters is a haunted doll created by a lich to be his personal lab assistant/daughter-analogue, right up until the lich is killed and the doll taken away to learn Adventuring by the Adventurers who killed her undead daddy. Previously he had to write up a homebrew species for Wertvoll, which automatically disbarred her from ninety-eight percent of all D&D games. Now? That doll could theoretically be Custom Lineage'd to allow Maker to run her in a stricter game.
That's what Custom Lineage is for - bizarre one-offs that don't otherwise have a place. Are you a haunted doll? Are you a kitchenware golem (a legit character I've seen, and it is far more terrifying than you're thinking)? Are you an Awakened [insert whatever dumbass thing some idjit player decided to Awaken here]? Are you whatever the hell Rayman is? Are you as fashion mannequin possessed by the costume of Macho Man Randy Savage? CL can give you a foot in the door. The rest is up to your ability to impress the DM and the rest of your group by managing to turn the character into something Special, instead of just a weird joke.
Please do not contact or message me.
Sadly RAW lineage and race don't mean the same. They are similar and connected in that 9 times out of 10, your lineage has a effect on your race, but they are not symptoms for each other.
I do agree their intent has not been carried out well, and if you asked a random person on the street if lineage and race were the same, a lot of them would probably say yes.
Although it is worth noting that all other non-entity non-race character options are all referred to as lineages, so at least they're consistant. (The ones in the lineages UA and are coming out in the Ravenloft book)
Edit: I guess everyone does make a good point that "non-entity non-race" doesn't really fit, as your race is "Custom Lineage". However I can't think of a better way to describe it and it was the term used in the person I'm responding to's post, so I'll keep it for now.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
I think the intent was as follows (quoting a post of mine in the other thread):
Custom Lineage can, as written, be used for entirely-custom stuff (animated dolls and such), super micromanaged bloodline stuff ("my grandparents were a gnome, a human, a half-elf, and a magical construct"), or even "I want to say I'm a deep gnome, but use Shadow Touched instead of the normal deep gnome abilities." All Crawford's ruling is stating (as was pretty obvious before, just not explicit) is that Custom Lineage does not, by default, meet the prerequisites for things like the racial feats.
Given that the racial feats and Custom Lineage were from entirely different books (Xanathar's and Tasha's), it's not so surprising that this needed a clarification.
Also, it's pretty clear that some of the Tasha's feats (none of which are racial feats) look like redesigned non-racial versions of some of the Xanathar's feats. Compare Fey Touched to Fey Teleportation, for example.
Lastly, if the DM wants to waive the race requirements for Xanathar's racial feats (for Custom Lineage, or whatever really), they can. There's even a switch for it in dndbeyond. Were I running a campaign (I'm not), I would do this. I think the next campaign I start in will do this, because the DM is thinking along similar lines. You (the proverbial 'you') do not have to, as per Crawford's ruling.